Author Topic: 2010 politics  (Read 22458 times)

Fenrix

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Reply #50 on: November 08, 2010, 06:21:09 AM
Obama started in the center. What's he going to do now... move further toward the extreme right?

I thought there was some discussion to end the deliberate trolling and lobbing of flamebait...

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stePH

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Reply #51 on: November 08, 2010, 03:38:28 PM
Obama started in the center. What's he going to do now... move further toward the extreme right?

I thought there was some discussion to end the deliberate trolling and lobbing of flamebait...

Who's trolling or flamebaiting? I'm just calling it as I see it. Obama was never the "far-left socialist" that the right tried to paint him as, and he's continued many of Bush's more repugnant policies.

But whatever. Guess I'm out; see ya in other threads.

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birdless

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Reply #52 on: November 08, 2010, 08:49:17 PM
Those who dislike either of their own parties should seriously check out the new episode of THIS AMERICAN LIFE - in particular, the segment on the life-long friends who found a tea party organization is painfully truthful about what the road to hell is paved with...

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/417/this-party-sucks
Oh! I haven't listened to that one yet! Thanks for the preview! I'll be listening to it on the way home. My political views on FB are listed as "political cynic." I feel like everyone (i'm not sure if there is hyperbole in that noun for me) in gov't is more interested in representing Washington's ideas to us rather than our ideas to Washington, and trying to figure out what they can do for themselves or their party. I don't LIKE believing this, but this is how it appears to me. I'm hoping that something/someone can restore my confidence.



Zorag

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Reply #53 on: November 10, 2010, 02:19:42 AM
Steph, Obama may be in the center on some issues, but not the majority.  I am not calling him far left.  Clinton only changed his approach after the government shut down anyway.  One aftermath of the election seems to be the near extinction of centrist Democrats in the House.  It seems to me that the more left leaning Dems had better results in voter turn out.  Anybody who lost by 1 percent could have won if they had a more energized base.

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kibitzer

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Reply #54 on: November 10, 2010, 10:45:03 AM
And so it goes. (sigh).


Zorag

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Reply #55 on: November 10, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
Kibitzer, what are you replying to?  This is a chaotic thread.  Kind of fitting, though.

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Reply #56 on: November 10, 2010, 12:45:08 PM
I should also note that the moderate Republicans had the same problem as the moderate Democrats.  There were more attack ads than usual this year.  It almost seems that many people just went out to vote against candidates.  The Green and Libertarian parties really missed an opportunity, IMO.

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birdless

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Reply #57 on: November 10, 2010, 09:38:19 PM
So i've listened to all but the last 4 minutes of This American Life's "This Party Sucks," and it's just served to confirm my cynical view of politics. I was so disappointed that Rick caved to the spin cycle the GOP offered him. And they were so matter-of-fact about the blatant lie regarding the departure of Rick from the independent guy's campaign (can't remember his name right off hand). I don't see this as a uniquely Republican shortcoming, either—i believe this is SOP for politics in general. I did like the phrase "principal over party," but i wasn't left with the impression that anyone is really ready to commit to that motto. I honestly feel like that both sides are so diligent about gaining support from other politicians or supporting their own party line that the voters needs are a irritating distraction to what they want to accomplish, which is some self-serving BS of one variety or another. Then the independents are stuck in a netherland of having to compromise their ideal to even get competitive. So yeah... i hope i'm wrong, but this is how the whole political landscape reads to me. I am, admittedly, not an avid follower of politics (the only reason i even poked my head in here was to see how everyone was getting along on such a hot topic, and to see if i could learn a little something in the process :)).



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Reply #58 on: November 10, 2010, 09:41:20 PM
Yeah, that bit broke my heart, too.


Zorag

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Reply #59 on: November 10, 2010, 09:46:06 PM
Birdless, for someone who doesn't follow politics, you have a pretty solid grasp on the current landscape. 

I don't know what could help turn the tide.  One of the biggest problems I see is that Greens and Libertarians are polar opposites.  I really think term limits would help some, but we may be too far down the road now.

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birdless

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Reply #60 on: November 10, 2010, 10:00:08 PM
Birdless, for someone who doesn't follow politics, you have a pretty solid grasp on the current landscape. 

I don't know what could help turn the tide.  One of the biggest problems I see is that Greens and Libertarians are polar opposites.  I really think term limits would help some, but we may be too far down the road now.
Yeah, i've wondered if that would help, too. I wonder how many Americans would support term limits? And what would happen if a national petition supporting term limits showed a majority favored them? What are the downsides to term limits? Simply voting in lack of experience every 8 years? Is there something wrong with a system when someone can't learn it in 4 years or LESS (assuming, at the worse, 4 years to learn it, 4 years to be effective)? Anyone have any answers? Or guesses? I'll take guesses. Personally, i kinda wonder if less experience is a GOOD thing, so there's less chance to exploit the system.



Anarquistador

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Reply #61 on: November 18, 2010, 04:50:20 AM
I don't know if I agree that less experience is a good thing. Look at elder statesmen like the late Ted Kennedy. He was still able to wield a great deal of clout without compromising principle.

My biggest problem with the political Left these days is they seem to have given up on being truly progressive. No one seems to have the werewithal to effect any serious change. They're too busy tending to their pet causes to care about any bigger picture. The Democratic party has a long sad history of falling apart over this. They couldn't get a decent health care reform bill passed even with a majority in Congress, because none of them were willing to compromise what they saw as their principles for the sake of a greater good. There's never any forward movement because everyone is running around in circles.

With the Republicans in power in the House, I don't know what's going to happen. Most likely, nothing at all.

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birdless

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Reply #62 on: November 19, 2010, 06:02:43 AM
I don't know if I agree that less experience is a good thing. Look at elder statesmen like the late Ted Kennedy. He was still able to wield a great deal of clout without compromising principle.
Definitely not a statement of belief on my part—simply curious conjecture! ;)

(Although I feel like there are more than a few politicians who exploit the system; but even if we did have less experienced people, i'm sure they would get mentored by those with decades of experience.)



Anarquistador

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Reply #63 on: November 19, 2010, 02:29:08 PM
Experience is a fine line to tread in politics. That's the problem. There is this well-ingrained notion that "the system" is bad and will inevitably corrupt you, so you should spend as little time in it as possible. On the other hand, if DON'T spend a good bit of time inside the system, how are you going to get anything done? It's like a self-defeating cycle: the young people who get involved in politics looking to genuinely make positive change are pressured to not "play the game." So naturally they don't develop the experience needed to actually affect any change.

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Zorag

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Reply #64 on: November 20, 2010, 11:37:58 AM
I think idealism dies with experience.  This is ot just in politics, either.  Remember being young and having the future ahead of you?  Anything was possible.  As you grew older, you began to find limits.  It happens in many aspects of life.  Political idealism is generally more publicly visible.

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Anarquistador

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Reply #65 on: November 21, 2010, 02:34:08 PM
Well, there's losing idealism, and then there's just plain giving up. There IS a difference, and I fear that we as a society have forgotten that. The world is not perfect - and probably never will be - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying to make it a little better.

...okay, that was sappy even for ME. Sorry.

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Zorag

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Reply #66 on: November 22, 2010, 07:55:54 AM
I agree.  I did not intend it to sound horrible.  Idealism alone is not enough to sustain a political career.  I think this is what the system is blamed for.

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stePH

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Reply #67 on: November 23, 2010, 03:47:27 PM
Here's an interesting (and depressing) read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/opinion/22krugman.html

Quote
The fact is that one of our two great political parties has made it clear that it has no interest in making America governable, unless it’s doing the governing. And that party now controls one house of Congress, which means that the country will not, in fact, be governable without that party’s cooperation — cooperation that won’t be forthcoming.

and ShamWow is still trying to "reach across the aisle" from what I understand.  ::)

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Reply #68 on: November 23, 2010, 05:16:58 PM
heh.  You speak as if that is a unique characteristic of the Republicans.  When Democrats are in power, they shake their heads and complain that the Republicans won't cooperate with them and go along with their agenda.   When Republicans are in power, they shake their heads and complain that the Democrats won't cooperate with them and go along with their agenda.  It is depressing, but it is not unique to one party.

Facehuggers don't have heads!

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stePH

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Reply #69 on: November 24, 2010, 02:38:35 AM
heh.  You speak as if that is a unique characteristic of the Republicans.  When Democrats are in power, they shake their heads and complain that the Republicans won't cooperate with them and go along with their agenda.   When Republicans are in power, they shake their heads and complain that the Democrats won't cooperate with them and go along with their agenda.  It is depressing, but it is not unique to one party.

It's the first time I can recall either party baldly stating their intention of opposing the President's every move, no matter what. Sure, that may be what they always do anyway, but coming right out and saying so takes nuts as big as my house.

(I got a big house.)

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Fenrix

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Reply #70 on: November 24, 2010, 04:38:49 AM
It's the first time I can recall either party baldly stating their intention of opposing the President's every move, no matter what. Sure, that may be what they always do anyway, but coming right out and saying so takes nuts as big as my house.

Quote?

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