Feedback on feedback? how meta

[tabby90]

I love listening to feedback on previous episodes, but currently it's missing something.  I need more than the name of the previous story to associate.  Especially when feedback is running 8 episodes behind.  Can you give just a few words to remind us which story we're discussing?

[mcjoe]

This is going to sound harsh and I apologize in advance, but the feedback of late is really hurting the quality of the overall professional feel of the podcast production. I am sure that Bill Peters is a great person and an enormous help to Escape Artists, but the sad truth is, he can't read and has trouble enunciating. Part of the problem is the bar is set so high by other aspects of the production, which are amazing. Really hope you can improve that spot going forward.

[stePH]

Agree with MC Joe. I know not everybody can be Steve Eley (actually, There Can Be Only One , but Peters' reading is so awkward and stilted, it makes the early days of Podcastle sound polished.

[Wilson Fowlie]

Gimme a break.  Or rather, give Bill a break.  For a long time, there was no feedback, and people complained about that and so now there's feedback again and people are complaining because it isn't James Earl Jones doing the reading.  (Yeah, yeah, I know no one said that.)

Neither of those last two posts meet the standard of The One Rule of the forums.  This kind of comment, if you have to say it at all, should be sent privately to the podcast's editor, or to the CEO of Escape Artists, not aired in public.

Bill is taking the time to read through the feedback, find representative quotes, copy them into a document, add transitional comments and record the whole thing.  Every week.  How much time a week are you donating to Escape Artists?

I would suggest to Bill that he consider reading the feedback section just a little more slowly; that may help the words flow more smoothly.  Also, I find that when I'm doing a story recording, I almost always record it a second time and it comes out much better.  It takes a lot more time, so it might not be entirely practical, but I find it helps to get a better sense of what words can trip up your tongue when you're saying them aloud.

That being said, I do second tabby90's suggestion.  I said something similar recently about Podcastle feedback myself; a few words describing the story under discussion would help me get my mind in the right place.  I think Bill did that in episode 259, in fact; if so, thanks, Bill!


(Edited to fix a badly written sentence.)

[stePH]

Bill is taking the time to read through the feedback, find representative quotes, copy them into a document, add transitional comments and record the whole thing.  Every week.  How much time a week are you donating to Escape Artists?

I listen, don't I? 

[Bdoomed]

I listen, don't I? 

*throws a chair at stePH*

[CryptoMe]

I'm just happy to have feedback!!

Give Bill a break. He is willing to do this! Every week!  I am sure he's learning a lot and will get better with practice. I, for one, have no problem with EscapePod supporting on-the-job training. If you do have criticism, why not make it constructive, so that Bill can learn from it and improve.

Yeah, Bill! Thanks for all your efforts.

[Wilson Fowlie]

I'm just happy to have feedback!!

Give Bill a break. He is willing to do this! Every week!  I am sure he's learning a lot and will get better with practice. I, for one, have no problem with EscapePod supporting on-the-job training. If you do have criticism, why not make it constructive, so that Bill can learn from it and improve.

Yeah, Bill! Thanks for all your efforts.

This forum needs Like buttons. 

[kibitzer]

This forum needs Like buttons. 

Like!

[Robin Sure]

I'd be curious to know how many people actually listen to the feedback portion. I ask, because the most recent Escape Pod (as of this writing, The Speed of Dreams) had the audible advert crowbarred in before the feedback section. Is it a requirement of the contract that it has to appear before an item that could be considered an easy switch off point?

[icegirl]

I like the feedback section - I miss it when it is left out and I enjoy the ARM's reading. Keep it up. We can all do without ads in our lives, but at least EA keeps them to the least annoying presentation possible.

[Heradel]

I don't really have a good response to the criticism except to say that yes, Mur and Norm are far better than me at the audio work, and I'm working on my end of it and hopefully getting better and more comfortable as things go on. And I will try to put more context into future feedback segments. Thanks to each of my defenders.

I'd be curious to know how many people actually listen to the feedback portion. I ask, because the most recent Escape Pod (as of this writing, The Speed of Dreams) had the audible advert crowbarred in before the feedback section. Is it a requirement of the contract that it has to appear before an item that could be considered an easy switch off point?

I haven't read the contract, but the placement of the ad there was more that we didn't get the order for the ad until after Norm had recorded the outro segment, and for various reasons it was much easier/cohesive sounding to have Mur read it and splice it in there.

[Unblinking]

Thanks for doing the feedback, Bill!  And I like to have the feedback in the episodes again.  Partly because I get an irrational thrill out of the occasional appearance of my avatar name, but also because I think it gives it more of a "yup, the magazine does listen to your feedback" riff to the world.

I think that Bill does fine, and he'll just get better as time goes on.  Back in the earliest days of Pseudopod, Mur was the host, and in the first few episodes people left comments saying she sounded overly formal.  Gradually she seemed to get more comfortable in the role, and now she couldn't sound better.  The exact same thing goes for Norm Sherman's early days on the Drabblecast--he got that silky smooth hosting voice through practice. 

[kibitzer]

I think that Bill does fine, and he'll just get better as time goes on.  Back in the earliest days of Pseudopod, Mur was the host, and in the first few episodes people left comments saying she sounded overly formal.  Gradually she seemed to get more comfortable in the role, and now she couldn't sound better.  The exact same thing goes for Norm Sherman's early days on the Drabblecast--he got that silky smooth hosting voice through practice. 

Public speaking; group debate; narration; all these things get better with practice and it's the only way to do it!

[Farseeker]

I came to the forum today specifically to leave feedback on feedback, and was pleased to see that there is discussion in progress.

Currently, I find the feedback section the weakest part of Escape Pod.  The reading is halting and sometimes suffering from mispronunciation.  It is especially jarring considering the generally excellent quality of the story narration that precedes it.

This isn't flaming Bill, it's constructive criticism.  Perhaps, if he sees this criticism, he will be motivated to work to improve and everyone will ultimately be happier.  Or maybe reading really isn't his strong point and he will continue to donate his efforts to editing the feedback and the reading could be done by someone else.

If you listen to a friend singing, and they've invited your comment (which Escape Pod has, even if Bill has not personally), and if they were flat, it does no one any good if you just smile and say non-commitally, "That was nice."

It sounds to me that, if he does not do so already, Bill could benefit by doing a practice run reading before the production performance.  And look up pronunciation of any unfamiliar words.

One production note: Continuing to play the theme music over the feedback is jarring, makes it harder to understand what is being read.  Fade out the music once you get into the feedback; you can fade it in again at the end.

[Sandym]

I am sorry to post something negative as I am a great fan of EP, and I echo an earlier comment re. Bill P. assuredly being a good guy and doing a good job behind the scenes at EP, BUT (and this may just be me) I'm sorry to say that I find the accent impossible to understand. Usually I am in the car when listening which doesn't help sound quality but I have tried again at home and sorry Bill but this Scotsman just can't understand what you are saying. For example I just listened to EP261, there's feedback about something I (heart) Escape Pod - sounds like I'm too late for that one, whatever it is / was, ah well teach me to visit the forums more often!

PLEASE no comebacks from all you wise people re. Scots people not knowing English (I get daily abuse on this as I live in England, sigh) and apologies Bill, I can only suggest maybe I am in a minority of one? To try and be constructive - what would help - slower, more distinct pronunciation, more variation in tone, I think. I also think it would be a big BIG improvement not to be competing with the closing music blasting away in the background.

BTW respect to anyone who does this for free! Never mind, Bill, you should hear ME speak, ha ha, makes Alasdair sound like cut glass upper crust English!

[Wilson Fowlie]

I have to agree with the comments about the music with the feedback.  I found it particularly loud (relative to the speaking) in the most recent episode.  I suspect that made more of a difference to making out Bill's comments than any (well, most ) accent issues.

I actually think that having the music underneath is not a bad thing in and of itself, but the sound engineer has to be careful to reduce its level (or boost that of the talking) appropriately, where 'appropriately' tends to mean 'a lot'.  It's amazing how little competition it takes from one sound to make another one indecipherable.

[DKT]

Personally, I dig the music during feedback. I did not notice it being too loud this last time (although it might have been). But I definitely would've noticed it if it hadn't been there.

So HA! See? You can't win!

[Swamp]

The music has been louder during the intro/outro as well.  I think that started just after the Hugo stories.  I just thought it was a choice.  I haven't had a problem hearing, but I did notice it was louder.

[Maplesugar]

My 2 cents:  Yay Bill for being brave enough to broadcast your voice! It takes guts to do so- I cringe every time I hear my own voice played back.  Keep up the good work- you'll get better with practice.

I agree that the music volume has been a tad too loud in a few recent episodes.  It's not *bad*, but I've had to rewind and listen over a few times to make out what was being said.

[Nerraux]

Thanks for your thoughts on the production. I don't get to the boards nearly often enough, so I apologize for not answering sooner.

I was blessed to be allowed to take over the production several episodes back and have been trying to bring it up to the standard that it occupied before me coming into the picture. There have been ups and downs for many too many reasons to discuss, but I think I have hammered out most (there will always be something) of the issues and I was actually very pleased with the last episode (262-Cruciger).

I'll tone down the music that has been overwhelming to some of you. Please know that finding that happy medium has been one of the more difficult parts of this process. Particularly because -- like HTML renders differently in different browsers, on different days, in different climates, and depending on how gassy your dog is (sorry, designers' angst) </melodrama> -- these files sound different depending on what software and hardware you're using to listen to it. Trust me, I've screened the various episodes in at least four programs; on an iPod, my sony walkman cell phone, and three different computers; and through three sets of headphones, and they all sound different. Not to mention, like trying to get a moire out of an image in Photoshop, you can render a sound file three times the exact same way and get different results.

I don't say all this to garner sympathy, just to assure you that I'm working on it constantly and welcome your thoughts here, in IM (when I can take the time to talk), on Twitter (@mat_weller), or by email (matweller@gmail.com). I won't answer answer all requests -- that's to your benefit, I'm ungodly wordy (see: this post) -- but I will read them all and take them into consideration. Like everyone else that works on Escape Artists productions, I'm honored to be a part of this and want to make it the best it can be for you.

[Ben Phillips]

these files sound different depending on what software and hardware you're using to listen to it.

I can vouch for that.  Ask anyone who does serious sound engineering in general, in fact.

[Scattercat]

I'd just like to add that I think Bill did a great job on the feedback segment in "Cruciger."  When he started doing the segment, he was more than a little stiff and stilted, but it seems like practice is making perfect. 

[Ocicat]

This week's feedback on the end of "Fuel" was a good recording too.  Sounding much more confident, less hesitant.

[Fenrix]

My feedback on the feedback is I hit the "next" button.  I appreciate it being included after the story.