Author Topic: EP270: Advertising at the End of the World  (Read 25620 times)

jrderego

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 687
  • Writer of Union Dues stories (among others)
    • J. R. DeRego - Writer
Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 10:08:31 PM
"Hatchet" would probably be the archetypal survivor porn book, to my mind. 

"My Side Of The Mountain" was one of my favorite books as a kid...
calling something that beloved from childhood 'porn' just doesn't sit right, somehow.

I wonder if there can't be some cultural thread of the Back-To-The-Earth movement of the sixties and seventies in the new crop of post-apoc fiction. Perhaps it's just a natural consequence of most authors today having grown up during the cold war.


My son is reading My Side of the Mountain right now! He loves it to pieces.

"Happiness consists of getting enough sleep." Robert A. Heinlein
Also, please buy my book - Escape Clause: A Union Dues Novel
http://www.encpress.com/EC.html


Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #26 on: December 13, 2010, 10:58:12 PM
I wonder if there can't be some cultural thread of the Back-To-The-Earth movement of the sixties and seventies in the new crop of post-apoc fiction. Perhaps it's just a natural consequence of most authors today having grown up during the cold war.

There is something undeniably compelling about the idea of reducing survival to the barest necessity.  It's hardly a new thing; "The Mysterious Island" and "Robinson Crusoe" both have a mind-numbing level of detail about the methods of survival used by the protagonists.  I suspect that part of the appeal is that part of our minds that is weary with the complexity and speed of modern life and would get a certain satisfaction from seeing all of that just stop.  It's one solution to the Gordian Knot, after all.

BTW, if that whole "build up from scratch" trope appeals strongly, I must encourage you to avoid Minecraft at all costs because you will never stop playing it.



KenK

  • Guest
Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 12:11:35 AM
@AliceNred
Quote
...commercials can be art.

So can political or commercial propaganda then. Oh, wait. That's why they call them "commercials".  :D


And what does that say about truth in advertising?

Alice if you want find the "truth" consult a philosopher; if you want "accuracy" consult a philologist with a law degree. "Honesty in advertising" is kinda of oxymoron in the real sense of the term IMHO.   :D



AliceNred

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
Reply #28 on: December 14, 2010, 03:24:57 AM
@AliceNred
Quote
...commercials can be art.

So can political or commercial propaganda then. Oh, wait. That's why they call them "commercials".  :D


And what does that say about truth in advertising?


Alice if you want find the "truth" consult a philosopher; if you want "accuracy" consult a philologist with a law degree. "Honesty in advertising" is kinda of oxymoron in the real sense of the term IMHO.   :D

Sure there is. You just have to put you knees together and tap your heels together, and say, "I believe. I believe."

Stop throwing gnomes at me. They hurt.


Talia

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
  • Muahahahaha
Reply #29 on: December 14, 2010, 08:40:28 PM
Quite enjoyed this one. I personally would have been unhappy if the cause of the catastrophe wasn't included - I don't like to be left wondering.



I can't quite remember, but there was an older Escape Pod on making one crave something.


You'd be thinking of EP 98, 'Just Do It' by Heather Lindsley.



Rachel Udin

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Reply #30 on: December 17, 2010, 09:20:23 PM

I agree with many other comments that the protagonist's reaction to many of the things in the story seemed odd. I know it's probably happened to her many times before, but an android turning into a dead loved one would deeply anger and hurt me. I might end up inviting it in for tea out of loneliness and desperation, but not after getting very, very angry at them all and going nearly insane. Her frank acceptance seemed very unnatural.

I think that part of the reason that she didn't get as angry was because of what her husband said and pondered. In a way the ads connected her to her dead husband. I think she would have invited them to tea even if they weren't like her dead husband, but since they did, it added that last bit of connection she wanted.

The emotional core of the story seems to center around her missing her husband, but unlike some of the other recent offerings, it wasn't so much about hanging on, as kind of using it as a way to remember, kind of like a photograph. There wasn't a feeling of desperation with the story because the protagonist accepts that the ad is trying to sell her stuff. If she was desperate, I think that she wouldn't be growing a garden, going about happily and she wouldn't accept the fact so readily that the face of her dead husband is selling her stock options. She seems pretty content and in a way the ads seem to connect her to the world and remind her that there is a larger world out there... so she doesn't stay secluded--she makes references to trying to connect to the net. It's only when all the ads die and she loses that connection that she goes out into the world, in a way to reconnect again.


You'd be thinking of EP 98, 'Just Do It' by Heather Lindsley.

That's the one... that one was definitely more cynical towards advertising.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:28:46 PM by Rachel Udin »



Devoted135

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1252
Reply #31 on: December 20, 2010, 07:40:35 PM
As I was listening I was hoping the plague would turn out to be an ad-borne virus that people caught through contact with the ads. The MC was spared because she had been holed up since before the virus came into being, but then (irony of ironies) she got it as well because she finally invited one into her home. I thought the story was going this direction as she became "more tired" and started moving more slowly as she went about her chores. But I guess it was not to be  :-\



Lift

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • Jason Rizos Dot Com
Reply #32 on: December 22, 2010, 09:22:25 PM
I liked the premise, and the rapid-fire exposition. Maybe a bit heavy-handed on the anti-advertisement social commentary.

Some word choice was very "writerly" and some of it was stated by the characters. Why would this cliche of an old lady know the word "Senchant?" Characterization was forced, and again, cliched. The ads themselves were too abstract, at least at first, and more "magical realist", reminiscent of Gogol.

Pledge my Kickstarter! The Chrysalis Of Matter


kibitzer

  • Purveyor of Unsolicited Opinions
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 2228
  • Kibitzer: A meddler who offers unwanted advice
Reply #33 on: December 23, 2010, 02:10:10 AM
The creepiest, weirdest ads I've encountered were in a Philip K Dick story -- at least I think it was. The ads were kind of like bugs and I recall the MC driving along and ads splatting on the windscreen. Somehow, one crawled inside the car and started up its spiel, with the MC stamping on it to kill it.


Max e^{i pi}

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1038
  • Have towel, will travel.
Reply #34 on: December 23, 2010, 07:35:16 AM
The weirdest creepiest ads I've encountered are all from Japan.

Cogito ergo surf - I think therefore I network

Registered Linux user #481826 Get Counted!



contra

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Reply #35 on: December 23, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
We already have some pretty creepy adds.

The number of adds in your spam folder which pretend to be from people you know have a creepy element already.

But then whats where this story came from, isn't it...

---
Mike---Glasgow.  Scotland.-->


FireTurtle

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 898
Reply #36 on: December 24, 2010, 01:02:10 AM
While I did enjoy the new twist on post-apocalyptic isolation, there were several inconsistencies that drove me up the wall.
1) I agree wih whoever wrote that this old lady was way to stereotypical
2) where is she gettig the gasoline for her truck?
3) soooo sandwich bread grows in gardens now? - this was a game changer for me. There was plenty of mentions of her garden-none of her wheat field.
4) argh. I felt flickering of lie for this one but they kept being mashed by my frustration.

“My imagination makes me human and makes me a fool; it gives me all the world and exiles me from it.”
Ursula K. LeGuin


wakela

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 779
    • Mr. Wake
Reply #37 on: December 24, 2010, 07:45:09 AM
It seems that the creepier advertising gets the more useful it becomes.  I like it that Amazon knows my purchase history and can send me notices of price reductions on products I might actually buy.  But there's an uncanny valley of my friend's facebook pictures appearing on sites that have nothing to do with facebook.

What usually bothers me about The Future of Advertising stories is that the author seems to starts by thinking "I hate advertising, so how can I make a story with evil and destructive advertising" (exaggerating to make a point) rather than "based on technological trends, I wonder what advertising will be like in the future."  The problem with the former approach is that it produces advertising technologies that I find unbelievable.  They are too expensive and impractical, because the author's first concern is making them harmful, rather than making them effective.  I think the zombie ads in this story sort of fall into this category.  It seems like they would be incredibly expensive and people can simply not open their doors for them.  But the story undermines my knee-jerk distaste in that the ads are operating without any guidance, so I don't know how they would actually behave.  I would expect an ad that knows enough about a potential customer that it can morph into a copy of the customer's dead husband to also know what the customer is likely to be interested in buying.  It would most likely be selling medicine or gardening tools.  Ads in most stories that sell viagra or fastfood do so because if they sold specials on science fiction books or computer accessories it undermines the author's desire to present them as bad things.  But again these ads were operating on their own, so who knows what they would do.

I also found the characterization of the MC to be a little bland.  I thought her situation was interesting, but I didn't feel the impact of her reactions for some reason.

On the previous week's podcast Mur presented this story as one about the future of corporate America*, but I don't think it is.  It's not even about advertising.  It's about a woman coping with loneliness.  And it's not particularly American. Other countries have corporations and advertising.  I'm guessing this story took place in the former US, but it could have taken place anywhere.  As has been alluded to above, anyone who implies that the United States has a monopoly on powerful corporations or intrusive advertising has never been to Japan.   



KenK

  • Guest
Reply #38 on: December 24, 2010, 09:43:23 PM
The weirdest creepiest ads I've encountered are all from Japan.
Was it the products/services being advertized or something else?



Ocicat

  • Castle Watchcat
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3722
  • Anything for a Weird Life
Reply #39 on: December 25, 2010, 05:30:52 AM
The weirdest creepiest ads I've encountered are all from Japan.
Was it the products/services being advertized or something else?

Asked by someone who's never watched a Japanese ad.  They can make selling coffee into a psychedelic experience.

As to this story - I quite liked it... but then, that's why I recommended it to Mur from the slush pile.  :-)



KenK

  • Guest

Max e^{i pi}

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1038
  • Have towel, will travel.
Reply #41 on: December 26, 2010, 07:26:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_bgmnhqU8o&feature=related
More like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR-Iz1fts5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFJfzmbt35M
Without a doubt, every single person participating in that last one had his ir her brains scooped out with a dull spoon and replaced with yellowish Jell-O.

Cogito ergo surf - I think therefore I network

Registered Linux user #481826 Get Counted!



KenK

  • Guest
Reply #42 on: December 27, 2010, 02:50:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_bgmnhqU8o&feature=related
More like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR-Iz1fts5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFJfzmbt35M
Without a doubt, every single person participating in that last one had his ir her brains scooped out with a dull spoon and replaced with yellowish Jell-O.

Okay now imagine having the stinky footed girl, the sumo wrestlers & pretzel girl, and the pudding creatures following you around all the time. Maybe the older woman was in hell and didn't know it?  :D



Dem

  • Lochage
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
  • aka conboyhillfiction.wordpress.com
    • Suzanne Conboy-Hill
Reply #43 on: December 27, 2010, 06:35:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_bgmnhqU8o&feature=related
More like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR-Iz1fts5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFJfzmbt35M
Without a doubt, every single person participating in that last one had his ir her brains scooped out with a dull spoon and replaced with yellowish Jell-O.
Anyone still wondering where the aliens are? ;D

Science is what you do when the funding panel thinks you know what you're doing. Fiction is the same only without the funding.


CryptoMe

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1146
Reply #44 on: December 28, 2010, 07:03:38 AM
I have to say, I looked at the story and, to stretch an analogy, said 'all the ingredients are there, and it has cooked long enough, but somehow it isn't soup...'

This was my impression of the story also. There were a lot of interesting bits, but it didn't quite gel for me.



Unblinking

  • Sir Postsalot
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 8729
    • Diabolical Plots
Reply #45 on: December 28, 2010, 05:55:35 PM
3) soooo sandwich bread grows in gardens now? - this was a game changer for me. There was plenty of mentions of her garden-none of her wheat field.

It's been a few weeks since I listened to the story, but I don't remember what details they gave about the bread.  Did they say that it was wheat bread?  Maybe it was corn bread or some other base ingredient. 



KenK

  • Guest
Reply #46 on: December 28, 2010, 07:33:05 PM
So the question comes down to "is 'virtual' companionship better than none at all?" I'm not sure. Being alone and being lonely don't have to be synonymous terms.



Mercurywaxing

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Reply #47 on: December 31, 2010, 11:00:01 PM
Am I the only one who couldn't stop thinking of that Simpsons Treehouse of Terror episode "Attack of the 50-Food Eyesores" where the giant advertising mascots went on a rampage destroying the town as the zombie-ads stomped through the gardens? 

Boy was this one disappointing.  I think @wakela had it right.  I'm not sure that it had anything to say other than going over the advertising age-old trope that sales pitches are getting intrusive and creepy.  The whole story seemed to be cobbled together from recycled parts including an apocalyptic virus, using a robot as a replacement for a loved one, and even elements of countless zombie stories.



yicheng

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Reply #48 on: January 03, 2011, 07:17:23 PM
The story itself fell a bit flat for me (mostly because of lack of action), but I did feel that the concept of a quiet apocalypse was interesting.  It makes you think about we'd leave behind if our society just ended right now.  What would later people think after digging up our magazines and billboards?  Would they think we worshipped a dualistic god/goddess named Brangelina?  Would they think that Calvin Kline, the Gap, Abercrombie, McDonalds, and Starbucks were powerful cults?

Also, my contribution to the weird commercial thread (from Thailand I think):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfxSWIBvEYE








Gamercow

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 654
Reply #49 on: January 04, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
I thought the story was okay, but it never really hooked me, even though I love apocalypse stories.  It seemed like a Twilight Zone episode, and in fact in my brain, the story was in black and white, now that I think about it.   ???  Anyway, the writing was good, and the scenes well built, but there wasn't enough action or events for me to get that interested.

The cow says "Mooooooooo"