Author Topic: EP272: Christmas Wedding  (Read 32568 times)

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Reply #50 on: January 07, 2011, 03:36:38 PM
Also, really? A goth chick with black hair named Ravenna? This is just one example of completely unnecessary telegraphing of characters.

So what's the problem?  I mean, part of the Goth image is having black hair (which can be died) and having a Goth name (which can be made up).  If she were blonde and named Bambi, most people wouldn't call her Goth.

Actually, I would equally object to a blonde character named Bambi, especially if she were ditzy or in some other way filling a stereotype. Or a redneck guy named Bubba, etc. I just have a preference that names either be "random" (Mel, Cory) or have the meaning buried a little deeper (Ariadne in Inception).

Okay, bad example.  How about an 8 foot tall dark-haired musclebound lumberjack woman named Bambi.  My point was that Ravenna no doubt arranged both her own hair color and her own name--I'd say that's just a characteristic of the Goth subculture, not bad writing.



yicheng

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Reply #51 on: January 07, 2011, 04:45:46 PM
For the first 10 minutes or so, I was all set to dislike this story.  "Not another alt-sex story from Vylar Kaftan..."

But then, I have to admit that it won me over with its optimism.  I'm always a sucker for disaster porn, I guess, and I have to admit that an super-volcano apocalypse is a pretty creative way to go.  I think Ms Kaftan did a great job drawing the reader into the story.  While I still found the protagonist overly-whiny, I ended up relating to her, and I was rooting for her at the end.  And really, who doesn't love a good wedding?

I do have some criticism, though.  Overall, I felt the story lacked action and had too much exposition, i.e. "telling" the reader instead of "showing" the reader.  I also personally found the idea of 3 unarmed women traipsing around in an RV, during a time of the complete collapse of law and order, to be rather unrealistic.  In general, it felt like the people in story would have reacted far worse in a real disaster.  If hurricane Katrina was any indication, you'd have looting, arson, murders, rape, and probably stressed out authorities enacting martial law and summary executions trying to impose law and order.  I may be in the minority here, but I don't think Burning Man hippies, even trained in survival, would be equipped to deal with such a situation.  It's one thing when you have a festival where similar people more or less want to be there.  It's quite another thing when you have hordes of people sick, dying, and desperate trying to get what they need to in order to survive.



Devoted135

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Reply #52 on: January 07, 2011, 06:30:44 PM
Also, really? A goth chick with black hair named Ravenna? This is just one example of completely unnecessary telegraphing of characters.

So what's the problem?  I mean, part of the Goth image is having black hair (which can be died) and having a Goth name (which can be made up).  If she were blonde and named Bambi, most people wouldn't call her Goth.

Actually, I would equally object to a blonde character named Bambi, especially if she were ditzy or in some other way filling a stereotype. Or a redneck guy named Bubba, etc. I just have a preference that names either be "random" (Mel, Cory) or have the meaning buried a little deeper (Ariadne in Inception).

Okay, bad example.  How about an 8 foot tall dark-haired musclebound lumberjack woman named Bambi.  My point was that Ravenna no doubt arranged both her own hair color and her own name--I'd say that's just a characteristic of the Goth subculture, not bad writing.



Haha, now that would be hilarious. Little John and the like. :)

I guess I'm assuming that the author named her Ravenna to telegraph some of the character's main characteristics. However, it seems like you're coming from the interpretation that Ravenna herself took on that name (somewhere in the character's backstory) when she took on her goth lifestyle (i.e. she had had a different given name). The best example of this that I can think of right away is Rogue renaming herself once she learns of her mutant powers. If that was the case I would think it's a cool detail and not give it a second thought, but that's not the interpretation that my mind jumped to when hearing the story.



Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #53 on: January 07, 2011, 07:22:17 PM
Interesting that with all the progessivity, the main conflict is a girl wanting her wedding day to be perfect.

Yes, but not for herself.  At least that's not how I heard it.

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CryptoMe

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Reply #54 on: January 07, 2011, 07:42:53 PM
Also, please allow me to clarify one common misconception that seems to get propagated far too much...
   Goth is the music and fashion movement
   Gothic is the architectural and literary style.
The two are not interchangeable  :D

Silly me... and I was thinking Goths were an east-Germanic tribe in the third century :-P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth

LOL!! Of course we can't forget the original Goths.  :D
But I wasn't trying to be comprehensive, just trying clarify that the modern Goth culture should never be called Gothic and the architectural (and literary) style should never be called Goth. If we stick to those clear rules, there will never be the confusion of
trying to picture a girl looking like a pointy arch and flying buttresses
;D ;D ;D



ElectricPaladin

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Reply #55 on: January 08, 2011, 07:13:18 AM
As someone who was recently married (if you listened to podcastle over the summer, you already know all about that ;D), I loved this story. It really made me feel good about the little things that didn't go just so at my wedding, though there were moments this summer when it really felt like an apocalypse wouldn't really be so bad compared to what was already happening.

On the other hand, as someone who has been in a relationship long enough to get married, the main characters' relationship(s) wrang hollow for me. Making a relationship with one person is hard enough, and I have it on fairly good authority (from people who have done it) that most forms of poly-fidelity are even more work. I'm not judging their value or applying a standard of "normalcy," I'm just sayin' that in the past five months of marriage (and five years of relationship), I've learned that balancing one person's needs against the demands of work and self care is really, really hard. Adding another person can't make it easier. Having one member of the relationship be brain-damaged can't make it easier.

So, when the author glossed over "hard times," it felt a bit false. This is fiction. The "hard times" of relationships are what I come here for. You can't just imply that they happened and not tell me about them.

I get that the story was about one day - the wedding day - and the rest of it is content. I understand that we aren't going to get a lengthy scene of the brides-to-be having problems. However, I feel that the gloss sucked a lot of the dimensionality out of the characters, and there had to be a better balance between focusing on the moment that the story happened and providing context.

So in the end I don't feel like I can give this story more than three out of five zeppelins. The apocalyptic context was neat, the characters were interesting (but unfortunately gutted by the enormous gloss), and I appreciated the wedding day blues, but I can't say the story moved me.

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wakela

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Reply #56 on: January 09, 2011, 02:32:29 AM
If hurricane Katrina was any indication, you'd have looting, arson, murders, rape, and probably stressed out authorities enacting martial law and summary executions trying to impose law and order. 
FWIW, the rapes and murders were exaggerated.  There were something like two deaths in the Superdome, one was a suicide and one was a junkie killing another junkie.  There was looting, but there was also looting in the story.  Also, I was in New York for the big blackout 8(?) years ago.  There was no looting, violence, or overzealous law enforcement.  I'm not trying to discount your criticism, I just think that large groups of people can be unpredictable in the face of disaster, a lot of times they band together.  Though even if 9 out of 10 people will form a peaceful coalition, that 1 can make life really hard and scary for everyone else. 



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Reply #57 on: January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I'm always a sucker for disaster porn, I guess, and I have to admit that an super-volcano apocalypse is a pretty creative way to go. 

The idea of the super-volcano apocalypse wasn't created by Kaftan.  I saw bits of a made-for-TV movie 2 or 3 years ago based on this exact same thing happening, with half the US blown off the map by it, and that claimed to be based on scientific evidence that this could happen and it's just a matter of time. 



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Reply #58 on: January 10, 2011, 03:44:06 PM
I'm always a sucker for disaster porn, I guess, and I have to admit that an super-volcano apocalypse is a pretty creative way to go. 

The idea of the super-volcano apocalypse wasn't created by Kaftan.  I saw bits of a made-for-TV movie 2 or 3 years ago based on this exact same thing happening, with half the US blown off the map by it, and that claimed to be based on scientific evidence that this could happen and it's just a matter of time. 

And don't forget the movie 2012.  (I understand you may want to, but...)

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Reply #59 on: January 10, 2011, 04:03:52 PM
Yellowstone super volcano is a possibility.  It has erupted before.


There are many many ways humanity can be ended.  Its humbling when you think about it.

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Reply #60 on: January 10, 2011, 11:17:51 PM
Yellowstone super volcano is a possibility.  It has erupted before.

[snip img]

There are many many ways humanity can be ended.  Its humbling when you think about it.

Or as a wise friend of mine once said: "The world is a dangerous place, and it wants to kill you."

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Max e^{i pi}

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Reply #61 on: January 11, 2011, 12:23:19 PM
Yellowstone super volcano is a possibility.  It has erupted before.


There are many many ways humanity can be ended.  Its humbling when you think about it.
So... are you worried about all of our eggs being in one fragile basket? Why not volunteer for the Mars mission?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 07:24:44 PM by Max e^{i pi} »

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Unblinking

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Reply #62 on: January 11, 2011, 04:03:53 PM
I'm always a sucker for disaster porn, I guess, and I have to admit that an super-volcano apocalypse is a pretty creative way to go. 

The idea of the super-volcano apocalypse wasn't created by Kaftan.  I saw bits of a made-for-TV movie 2 or 3 years ago based on this exact same thing happening, with half the US blown off the map by it, and that claimed to be based on scientific evidence that this could happen and it's just a matter of time. 

And don't forget the movie 2012.  (I understand you may want to, but...)

Darn you, I've been trying to forget that movie and now I have to start all over.  Forgetting, forgetting, forgetting.... 



kibitzer

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Reply #63 on: January 12, 2011, 02:13:00 AM
And don't forget the movie 2012.  (I understand you may want to, but...)
Darn you, I've been trying to forget that movie and now I have to start all over.  Forgetting, forgetting, forgetting.... 

2012.

2012.

2012.

2012...


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Reply #64 on: January 12, 2011, 04:11:34 AM
And don't forget the movie 2012.  (I understand you may want to, but...)
Darn you, I've been trying to forget that movie and now I have to start all over.  Forgetting, forgetting, forgetting.... 

2012.

2012.

2012.

2012...

You just lost The Game.



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Reply #65 on: January 27, 2011, 08:42:27 AM
For your edification, here's an article on the Yellowstone supervolcano that, probably, won't erupt and destroy most the US in the next few years.

Yellowstone Has Bulged as Magma Pocket Swells



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Reply #66 on: January 28, 2011, 01:45:07 PM

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Reply #67 on: January 28, 2011, 11:23:47 PM
I expect that was awkward


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Reply #68 on: March 01, 2011, 09:47:43 PM
This was beautiful. Really well written. I got choked up a bit during the ending (when Mel walked into the church). Thank you for sharing this with us (that's to both the author and the EscapePod cast).

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Reply #69 on: March 17, 2011, 04:01:03 AM
So here I am...listening to this story right after the Japanese earthquake and tsunami.

Had I listened to it a few months before, around Christmas time, I think I would be a lot harsher on the story. I found the apocalyptic story far more appealing than the wedding scenes. But listening to it now, I'm softer to the wedding scenes. I still think the story would've done better if it had been told without the flashbacks.

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Reply #70 on: January 03, 2013, 04:10:27 PM
Note to self:  Write "Jesus was a time-traveler" Christmas story for next year for the Christians. 

In all seriousness, I understand that Christians want to keep the Christ in Christmas, but the day has far outgrown its religious beginnings and grown into a commercial mega-monster that most people identify it as.   There's no getting that genie back in the bottle.  So please enjoy your religious holiday called Christmas, and I will enjoy my commercial holiday called Christmas, that happens on the same day. 

Some window-dressing poinsettias and mistletoe, and including the word "Christmas" in the title, and releasing it near December 25 doesn't make this a Christmas story. I listened to this one along with many other EA holiday stories on a road trip to visit family around the holidays and it just didn't fit with the rest of them.

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”