Author Topic: EP286: The ’76 Goldwater Dime  (Read 30915 times)

eytanz

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on: April 01, 2011, 08:21:05 AM
EP286: The ’76 Goldwater Dime

By John Medaille
Read by Norm Sherman

Originally published in Residential Aliens in July, 2010
---

I started in 1962, that’s when I became a numismatist. You know what that is? It’s the study of….well, it’s not the study of anything. It’s coin collecting, is what it is.

I was ten in 1962, and Christmas I got my first coin album. I didn’t actually get it. My father gave it to my brother. It was, you know, you’ve seen them, a sturdy cardboard folder with slots punched out that you put the coins in. Behind the slots, the empties, it had a backing of blue felt, I remember that. My dad gave it to my brother, I guess maybe thinking it would straighten him out. But coins, you know, they don’t really have that power. He wasn’t interested. He gave it to me. Me, I was interested.

The album was for Lincoln pennies, 1909 to 1959. I had five cents in the world then and each of the five fit in the slot. It only took me five more days to get the other forty-five. I would do anything for those pennies and slot it in its slot. Anything, anything. When I got my last penny, wow. It was a 1943 steel mint penny, a ‘steelie.’ They had to use steel instead of copper that year cause they needed the copper for all the bombs. I was so proud.

From then on it was just coins for me. My life was coins. I was hooked. They had their hooks in me, boy.

When I was just seventeen I moved by myself down to Washington, DC, cause I got a job there in a coin shop. That was my education. I lived in a one room dungeon in a crumby neighborhood, I loved coins that much.

You know, and I do alright. I made my living. I own my own house. I don’t live in debt like everybody else does. That’s what coins did for me. Coins and specie and spec. I don’t care for paper money, it holds nothing for me.


Rated G - coin collecting!

Show Notes:

  • Feedback for Episode 278
  • Next week… A taste of time



Listen to this week’s Escape Pod!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 09:42:01 PM by eytanz »



eytanz

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Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 08:22:58 AM
Admin note - the blog incorrectly identifies this as episode 284, but it's episode 286. If the blog gets fixed, that will probably break the link here to the blogpost - let me know if that happens and I'll fix it.



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Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 02:36:32 AM
Admin note - the blog incorrectly identifies this as episode 284, but it's episode 286. If the blog gets fixed, that will probably break the link here to the blogpost - let me know if that happens and I'll fix it.

Fixed the somewhat-to-very embarrassing typo, but the link stays the same.

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Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 10:08:16 AM
This story doesn't have a whole lot of actual story to it, but is a memorable portrait of a particular type of person.  The character of the narrator of the story becomes clear as the story unfolds, as he describes how he became interested in coin collecting as an occupation, and how it became the centre of his life.  His particular obsession - coins from other realities.

I've come across this notion once before in a much older story.  Jack Finney's "The Coin Collector" (AKA "The Other Wife") uses the same idea, though in that story the focus isn't on the coins themselves, but on how they are used to move from one world to another.  Here, the focus is on the coins, and the particularly obsessive person who would recognise them for what they are.


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Reply #4 on: April 03, 2011, 04:32:27 PM
Coins from the "Impossible Dreams" universe slowly find their way into ours, and one man obsesses over them.  I'd prefer to watch the movies from another world...



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Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 07:47:13 PM
I quite liked it but agree that as an idea it was probably still stretched a bit too long for a short episode.



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Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 01:46:26 PM
Interesting idea, but it was a bit light on content for a full size story--would've made a nice flash.  Also, for a story that doesn't have much meat besides the speculative element, it took a very long time to GET to that speculative element, instead just talking about coin collecting in general for quite a while.  This was especially true considering the speculative element was pretty clear just from the title--I waited most of the story to get to the spec element and then it wasn't anything the title didn't tell me.



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Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 02:12:18 PM
It essentially was a flash story, but drawn to a slightly longer length for the sake of bringing out the character. For me, this was done enjoyably and was not in any way excessive. I enjoyed this story very much and Norm's reading style perfectly accented it.



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Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 03:53:56 PM
OK, I'm going to respond to this one before reading any other replies.

What I loved about this story:

-It had a fantastic concept. It took that little thrill that you get when you find a unique coin in your change and bumped it up about 50 notches. I'm tempted to start looking at my change in this same way now.
-I love anything narrated by Norm Sherman.

Where it could have been improved:

-I just wanted it to ... I don't know... do a little more. The concept was so fantastic in a Twilight Zone sort of way that I wanted it to go farther than: "Yes, it's amazing and creepy and unbelieveable. Still, I just put them in a box and I treasure them and that's all." How exactly to play that out, I don't know, but there you are.
-I always find these first person narration stories where you can only hear one side of what's obstensibly a dialogue mildly annoying. What's actually going on? Are they talking to "us" directly? Are we overhearing someone through a wall and only one of them is talking loud enough to be heard? That, and it nececitates a lot of "cheats" in the speech - "What's that you, ask?" "Why's that important, you say?" - that no sane person actually talks like. Maybe the audio aspect accentuates this more, but I find myself wanting a different format.

-One premise of this story - that no one besides him would care or find these coins valuable - I find frankly implausible.  This would blow the lid off of common thinking. Surely once people know that these exist, it creates its own market instantly, I think.
-I felt slightly patronized when the author came right out and said that the specialty was "alternate reality coins." Yes, thank you, I got that one - I think most readers familiar with sci fi did from the point that they introduced the Goldwater dime.

So, while I enjoyed the story, I would have enjoyed it more had it been able to explore into more of a plot-driven rather than concept-driven story.
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Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 05:17:19 PM
I'm going to chime in with much of the same. Neat premise, but not enough actually happened to justify a full-length short story. As is, but tighter and shorter, and it would have been good for a flash piece. More elaborated - with an actual plot - would have been great for a story of the length this one actually was. As is, it straddled two worlds, and not in the nice way. In the world-splinters in your butt way.

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Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 05:18:30 PM
-I always find these first person narration stories where you can only hear one side of what's obstensibly a dialogue mildly annoying. What's actually going on? Are they talking to "us" directly? Are we overhearing someone through a wall and only one of them is talking loud enough to be heard? That, and it nececitates a lot of "cheats" in the speech - "What's that you, ask?" "Why's that important, you say?" - that no sane person actually talks like. Maybe the audio aspect accentuates this more, but I find myself wanting a different format.

That use of 2nd person, to refer to an imaginary conversant, didn't really bother me, particularly not in this story.  For me, rather than seeing it as a conversation he is having with a single person at a single point in time, this is a conversation he has had with many people at intervals throughout his life--whatever people he felt he could tell without risk of murder (probably not his coin collecting compadres).  Because no matter how much he says he's doing this just for his own satisfaction, the fact that he's having this conversation at all show that he wants to show them to people, perhaps in the hopes of finding someone who believes it's as cool as he does (a soulmate maybe, he hinted that he hasn't had much in the way of relationships) or perhaps just to try to convince people how awesome and unique he really is.

Or MAYBE, just maybe he's so shy that he's never had the guts to have this conversation and this is the version he plays in his head over and over as he tries to will himself to such an interaction.  Actually, I kind of like that version better, so I'm sticking with it.

Either way, since I didn't see this as a particular conversation in time, I wasn't bothered by the one-sided nature of it.

-I felt slightly patronized when the author came right out and said that the specialty was "alternate reality coins." Yes, thank you, I got that one - I think most readers familiar with sci fi did from the point that they introduced the Goldwater dime.

Although this conversation ended up being published in an SF publication, the form that it takes is a conversation with an unknown person who may or may not be an SF junky.  Sure, an SF junky would jump to that conclusion right away, but giving them a theory they already have isn't hurting them.  On the other hand, if you're not talking to an SF junky, this may be novel information and the listener wouldn't get the full experience without it.  So it makes sense to me.



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Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 06:45:29 PM
I liked this one, but it would have been fun to have a little more happen. And, although I didn't need it spelt out to me that these were "alternate reality coins", as a non-American, 'Goldwater dime' meant nothing to me, so the title is not a dead giveaway to everyone!



acpracht

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Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 07:04:34 PM
-I always find these first person narration stories where you can only hear one side of what's obstensibly a dialogue mildly annoying. What's actually going on? Are they talking to "us" directly? Are we overhearing someone through a wall and only one of them is talking loud enough to be heard? That, and it nececitates a lot of "cheats" in the speech - "What's that you, ask?" "Why's that important, you say?" - that no sane person actually talks like. Maybe the audio aspect accentuates this more, but I find myself wanting a different format.

That use of 2nd person, to refer to an imaginary conversant, didn't really bother me, particularly not in this story.  For me, rather than seeing it as a conversation he is having with a single person at a single point in time, this is a conversation he has had with many people at intervals throughout his life--whatever people he felt he could tell without risk of murder (probably not his coin collecting compadres).  Because no matter how much he says he's doing this just for his own satisfaction, the fact that he's having this conversation at all show that he wants to show them to people, perhaps in the hopes of finding someone who believes it's as cool as he does (a soulmate maybe, he hinted that he hasn't had much in the way of relationships) or perhaps just to try to convince people how awesome and unique he really is.

Or MAYBE, just maybe he's so shy that he's never had the guts to have this conversation and this is the version he plays in his head over and over as he tries to will himself to such an interaction.  Actually, I kind of like that version better, so I'm sticking with it.

Either way, since I didn't see this as a particular conversation in time, I wasn't bothered by the one-sided nature of it.


-I felt slightly patronized when the author came right out and said that the specialty was "alternate reality coins." Yes, thank you, I got that one - I think most readers familiar with sci fi did from the point that they introduced the Goldwater dime.

Although this conversation ended up being published in an SF publication, the form that it takes is a conversation with an unknown person who may or may not be an SF junky.  Sure, an SF junky would jump to that conclusion right away, but giving them a theory they already have isn't hurting them.  On the other hand, if you're not talking to an SF junky, this may be novel information and the listener wouldn't get the full experience without it.  So it makes sense to me.


Ooh, idea: What if he's having this conversation with the coins themselves? It's slightly insane, but fits the format of the narrative better, I think.

You make a point on the SF junky, but you still need to understand your audience. Obstensibly, it's an unknown conversant, but really it's us. (I'm using the word "obstensibly" a lot... hm...)



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Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 08:21:42 PM
Great flash story, somewhat stretched into a podcast length.  Some things, however:

- 5 days for a kid to fill a penny folder?  Even in 1953, this would be very difficult, though steelies would be easier to find back then. 

- More people would notice the different face on a coin.  I know I would.  But then again, I know instantly if I've got a Canadian coin or silver quarter in my pocket just by the sound. 

- I think the first person half-dialog was done best by Bob Newhart.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD1MW-nyhxg

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Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 09:38:25 PM
meh.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 04:03:17 PM by stePH »

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eytanz

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Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 09:43:24 PM
*Puts moderator hat on and wanders into thread*

No shouting, please.

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eytanz

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Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 09:51:30 PM
I've never been able to get into collecting anything. When I was a kid, my grandfather tried, several times, to get me into stamp collecting - he was an avid, if rather amateurish philatelist - but the only thing I cared about as a boy was books, and later computer games, and in both cases I didn't care at all about the physical medium once I was done with it. I remember at some point, because most of my friends were into collecting something or other, and my parents thought I should be too, I took an old toaster oven that my parents wanted to throw away, put it on my shelf, and declared that it was my Toaster Oven Collection, and whenever anyone asked me what I collected I pointed to it.

Anyway, the point is - this story made me understand a mindset that was quite alien to me much better than I have ever done before. It may not be action-packed, but I really, really enjoyed it.



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Reply #17 on: April 04, 2011, 10:25:17 PM

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Reply #18 on: April 05, 2011, 02:51:33 AM
Loved it.  I loved getting into the mindset of such a person. His obsession builds slowly until "the reveal" and that's where we see just how driven he is. The standout for me is that he doesn't care that there's other dimensions, he just cares about the coins. Sure, he's thought a bit about how they might have turned up but really, it doesn't matter -- the coins are the thing! The coins, the coins and nothing else; not the travelers, not the alternate histories, no wondering about what series of events led to Benedict Arnold being President -- just the coins.

I was also blind-sided by the comment about the guy who collected toilet-tokens, that he died alone in his house surrounded by a bunch of metal disks. I was thinking, "Jeez, poor bastard" and then the MC comes up with "That's how I'd like to go out, surrounded by the things I love." I think that one line, more than anything, flipped my perspective and helped me see his point of view. Great stuff.


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Reply #19 on: April 05, 2011, 12:19:31 PM
I enjoyed this one, though I have to agree that it didn't do much with the premise.  Like, I was rolling along, getting into the character, we did the reveal, and I was all set to hear the twist and have some sort of hint at a plot structure and... the story ended.  And I went, "Huh.  Well, okay."  It was fun, and it had an interesting character (I, too, was taken aback and then pleased by the description of the man dying alone surrounded by his coins and the inversion to "dying surrounded by what he loved"), but it left me a bit unsatisfied.  I think the comparison to "Impossible Dreams" is apt, since they both rely on a very subtle piece of the fantastic and well-drawn characters (and also obsessive nutbags as central to the plot), but "Impossible Dreams" had an arc in the main character's crisis of choice and some ups and downs in the romantic subplot, which gave it a much richer flavor in the end.  This one gets a smile, a nod, and then left behind, whereas I've gone back to listen to "Impossible Dreams" a couple of times now.

I don't think it's wrong, necessarily, to forego plot and conflict, but it's not a narrative choice that feels strong to me.



matweller

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Reply #20 on: April 05, 2011, 12:37:20 PM
I don't think it's wrong, necessarily, to forego plot and conflict, but it's not a narrative choice that feels strong to me.

Don't tell Stephen King, he's got at least 10 bestsellers under his belt that are almost nothing but 400 page studies of moment and character - The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Gerald's Game, The Gunslinger, etc.



Scattercat

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Reply #21 on: April 07, 2011, 01:01:13 AM
I don't think it's wrong, necessarily, to forego plot and conflict, but it's not a narrative choice that feels strong to me.

Don't tell Stephen King, he's got at least 10 bestsellers under his belt that are almost nothing but 400 page studies of moment and character - The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Gerald's Game, The Gunslinger, etc.

And lo and behold, I tend to find his more self-indulgently navel-gazing books to be bland and lacking zing.

However, in all of the books you listed, there is, in fact, a plot and some action that are largely overshadowed by the character bits.  A girl lost in the woods, a quest through a dreamlike landscape, etc.  This story had no action at all, which is why I said "forego" and not "minimize."



Talia

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Reply #22 on: April 07, 2011, 01:46:01 AM
I really really enjoyed this one. It was more just.. a monologue of sorts than a story story, but it didn't bother me at all, because it was an interesting peek into the way one man's mind works, with a neat concept woven in.

I think some of the complaints people have had with the story can be addressed by considering the narrator is obviously obsessive and strongly opinionated. Many of his points of view may not be.. quite in alignment with how anyone else would see things. I guess I'm suggesting he might be vaguely unreliable.



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Reply #23 on: April 07, 2011, 04:05:07 AM
I really really enjoyed this one. It was more just.. a monologue of sorts than a story story, but it didn't bother me at all, because it was an interesting peek into the way one man's mind works, with a neat concept woven in.

I think some of the complaints people have had with the story can be addressed by considering the narrator is obviously obsessive and strongly opinionated. Many of his points of view may not be.. quite in alignment with how anyone else would see things. I guess I'm suggesting he might be vaguely unreliable.

It's about frakkin time someone pointed out how frikkin NICE Talia is.  I duck my head into all the main fiction-podcast forums: the Escapepod Trio, Drabblecast and StarshipSofa, and I've never EVER seen anyone more consistently positive and encouraging than Talia- even when offering her deeper criticisms.
I just now noticed she was a MOD here at EA, and wanted to offer my personal slow golf clap in recognition.  Talia, your constructive level-headededness is something we should all aspire to.  Especially Steph. 
See what i mean?  Even I am not exempt! :P



Talia

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Reply #24 on: April 07, 2011, 06:22:28 AM
I really really enjoyed this one. It was more just.. a monologue of sorts than a story story, but it didn't bother me at all, because it was an interesting peek into the way one man's mind works, with a neat concept woven in.

I think some of the complaints people have had with the story can be addressed by considering the narrator is obviously obsessive and strongly opinionated. Many of his points of view may not be.. quite in alignment with how anyone else would see things. I guess I'm suggesting he might be vaguely unreliable.

It's about frakkin time someone pointed out how frikkin NICE Talia is.  I duck my head into all the main fiction-podcast forums: the Escapepod Trio, Drabblecast and StarshipSofa, and I've never EVER seen anyone more consistently positive and encouraging than Talia- even when offering her deeper criticisms.
I just now noticed she was a MOD here at EA, and wanted to offer my personal slow golf clap in recognition.  Talia, your constructive level-headededness is something we should all aspire to.  Especially Steph. 
See what i mean?  Even I am not exempt! :P


Heheh. You're much too kind... thanks.. :) :p
 



CryptoMe

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Reply #25 on: April 07, 2011, 07:16:42 AM
Interesting, but quickly forgotten (because nothing worth remembering happens).



matweller

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Reply #26 on: April 07, 2011, 02:15:27 PM
I don't think it's wrong, necessarily, to forego plot and conflict, but it's not a narrative choice that feels strong to me.

Don't tell Stephen King, he's got at least 10 bestsellers under his belt that are almost nothing but 400 page studies of moment and character - The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Gerald's Game, The Gunslinger, etc.

And lo and behold, I tend to find his more self-indulgently navel-gazing books to be bland and lacking zing.
They're not my favorites either. My point was that bestsellers of a much longer form come from not much more base material than this, so there has to be a market out there. And whereas many hours' investment in reading can get to be a little tedious, a 20 minute audio narrative character study is something I actually find quite enjoyable with a narrator that really brings out the character. Norm certainly accomplished that.

It's about frakkin time someone pointed out how frikkin NICE Talia is.  I duck my head into all the main fiction-podcast forums: the Escapepod Trio, Drabblecast and StarshipSofa, and I've never EVER seen anyone more consistently positive and encouraging than Talia- even when offering her deeper criticisms.
I just now noticed she was a MOD here at EA, and wanted to offer my personal slow golf clap in recognition.  Talia, your constructive level-headededness is something we should all aspire to.
I concur wholeheartedly.



Devoted135

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Reply #27 on: April 07, 2011, 02:57:28 PM
I liked this one as a character study, and agree with Talia that this guy is probably not the most well-adjusted person in the world so it's good to take his word with a grain of salt. Also, the narration really made this one for me; I doubt it would have been so enjoyable in the hands (voice?) of a less experienced reader.



Devoted135

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Reply #28 on: April 07, 2011, 03:06:19 PM

-I just wanted it to ... I don't know... do a little more. The concept was so fantastic in a Twilight Zone sort of way that I wanted it to go farther than: "Yes, it's amazing and creepy and unbelieveable. Still, I just put them in a box and I treasure them and that's all." How exactly to play that out, I don't know, but there you are.


Having never watched the Twilight Zone, my immediate association was with Fringe and all the cool little differences between the two universes (they stopped using bic pens forever ago, so seeing one was a clue!) but I came away with the same feeling of "aww, but there was so much more to explore!"



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Reply #29 on: April 07, 2011, 03:22:31 PM
Coins from the "Impossible Dreams" universe slowly find their way into ours, and one man obsesses over them.  I'd prefer to watch the movies from another world...

Yeah, that's pretty much what I took away from it. It's like "On a Blade of Grass", but for coin collecting. Enjoyable to listen to, but not deep enough to make a lot of commentary.

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Reply #30 on: April 07, 2011, 04:04:23 PM

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Reply #31 on: April 07, 2011, 04:09:19 PM
I'm not sure I see where the fact that some novels that have a high proportion of character-building introspection in addition to their plots are best-sellers somehow proves that this story made the right narrative choice in not having a plot at all, nor am I certain where I claimed that the fact that this story's choices did not seem strong to me implicated the marketability of character studies.  I'm not really interested in arguing about the relative quality of Stephen King's writing.  (For the record, I think he, himself, is a pretty stand-up guy, but I'm very iffy on most of his fiction, which I find rambling and indulgent, shading to purple on more than a few occasions.)

This story did not have any action or much of an arc.  That's not really a debatable point.  Even within the narrative of the protagonist's life, he has remained largely unchanged by his experiences, and there is no moment of revelation or climax.  I personally find that to be a weaker choice than to provide some sort of motion between the start and the finish, and I do not think that one must necessarily make a tradeoff between intense character study and internal or external character motion (c.f. "Impossible Dreams," which explored a very similar idea).  It was a good character study, which means I like it better than "On a Blade of Grass," which was similarly motionless but did not provide a coherent or deep character to explore, but I do not find the story qua the story memorable or intriguing; I would like to see this character in a larger milieu, though I have some doubts about his suitability as a long-term protagonist as he is.

Stephen King doesn't really enter into this.



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Reply #32 on: April 07, 2011, 04:18:33 PM
Also, with Stephen King, there's the added factor that by recent years he's gained enough acclaim that he has pretty much unkillable momentum.  He can write what he wants, and he'll always find an editor for it, and plenty of buyers.  That's not even a criticism of those buyers, since I generally am one of them (though I'm still a little annoyed I actually paid for the atrocity that was "Cell"). 






matweller

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Reply #33 on: April 07, 2011, 05:17:34 PM
Deep breaths, 'Cat. I was not attempting to negate your point nor argue with it. Originally, it was just a one off chuckling comment saying I get that, but obviously this ain't the first time, it ain't the worst time, and some folks even managed to have a little fun.

It's okay, just write me off as somebody who doesn't know 'real art' and forget I spoke word one.

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Reply #34 on: April 08, 2011, 02:50:57 AM
It's about frakkin time someone pointed out how frikkin NICE Talia is.  I duck my head into all the main fiction-podcast forums: the Escapepod Trio, Drabblecast and StarshipSofa, and I've never EVER seen anyone more consistently positive and encouraging than Talia- even when offering her deeper criticisms.
I just now noticed she was a MOD here at EA, and wanted to offer my personal slow golf clap in recognition.  Talia, your constructive level-headededness is something we should all aspire to.  Especially Steph. 
See what i mean?  Even I am not exempt! :P

Are you for real? She just added fuel to the fire of Cake vs. Pie in another thread!!! Call that "positive and encouraging"?? I think not!!

(My sense of humour sometimes gets me into trouble. I'M KIDDING.)

What I really want to say is: Talia is just as nice as pie.

Oops.


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Reply #35 on: April 08, 2011, 04:00:05 AM

What I really want to say is: Talia is just as nice as pie.





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Reply #37 on: April 08, 2011, 10:14:17 PM
Well, I really really liked it.

Plot: yes there is too a conflict: between business-as-usual view of the world, and that nameless dread of eldritch gods out of Lovecraft.  The story isn't about the coins, it's about the collector.  And Norm gives it just a perfect on-the-edge-of-demented reading that only Gene Wilder can do better.

http://www.apoGrypha.blogspot.com

What would have been written. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


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Reply #38 on: April 08, 2011, 10:14:45 PM
Well, I really really liked it.

Plot: yes there is too a conflict: between business-as-usual view of the world, and that nameless dread of eldritch gods out of Lovecraft.  The story isn't about the coins, it's about the collector.  And Norm gives it just a perfect on-the-edge-of-demented reading that only Gene Wilder can do better.

http://www.apoGrypha.blogspot.com

What would have been written. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


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Reply #39 on: April 09, 2011, 11:26:32 PM
The narration for this story was spot-fu**ing-on. Brilliant. Mr Sherman, you drew us right into the protagonist's mind, in all its obsessive, delusional (or was it?), paranoid (or was it?) glory. This performance forced me to re-up my annual donation months early. Great job. Thanks for sharing it with us.



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Reply #40 on: April 11, 2011, 06:01:18 AM
You know, I went through and read the criticisms of this story and totally agreed with them, but am still totally sold on it. I'm pretty sure it's just Norm's narration that makes it work well for me. I'm pretty sure he could read Bulwer-Lytton and make it compelling.



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Reply #41 on: April 13, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
Here we have another story that's mostly setting ("A world where coins slip between alternate universes") with a bit of character ("A coin collector obsesses on finding these extremely rare items") and no plot.

Can anyone guess my reaction?  I knew you could.



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Reply #42 on: April 13, 2011, 01:58:48 PM
Here we have another story that's mostly setting ("A world where coins slip between alternate universes") with a bit of character ("A coin collector obsesses on finding these extremely rare items") and no plot.

Can anyone guess my reaction?  I knew you could.

Actually, it's implied that travelers from other universes are spending the coins in this one; the coins aren't just coming over by themselves. But I share your opinion of the episode (I hesitate to call it a "story".)

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Reply #43 on: April 13, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
Actually, it's implied that travelers from other universes are spending the coins in this one; the coins aren't just coming over by themselves. But I share your opinion of the episode (I hesitate to call it a "story".)

Actually, it is posited at one point in the story that the coins COULD just be coming over by themselves.

The cow says "Mooooooooo"


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Reply #44 on: April 13, 2011, 04:43:35 PM
Actually, it's implied that travelers from other universes are spending the coins in this one; the coins aren't just coming over by themselves. But I share your opinion of the episode (I hesitate to call it a "story".)

Actually, it is posited at one point in the story that the coins COULD just be coming over by themselves.

Ah. Well, I didn't like the narrative enough to listen for that level of detail. I'll take your word for it.

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Reply #45 on: April 13, 2011, 06:35:22 PM
Actually, it's implied that travelers from other universes are spending the coins in this one; the coins aren't just coming over by themselves. But I share your opinion of the episode (I hesitate to call it a "story".)

Actually, it is posited at one point in the story that the coins COULD just be coming over by themselves.

Which struck me as the character basically saying "there might be exciting travel between the universes, and infinite possibility for exploration, but you know what?  I don't care how it happens because coins coins coins!"



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Reply #46 on: April 13, 2011, 07:45:47 PM
I thought it was a well minted character vignette.



NoNotRogov

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Reply #47 on: April 14, 2011, 01:55:44 AM
I thought it was a well minted character vignette.



Dohoho!

Anywho, alternate history is a hobby of mine - so let's examine that aspect of the story, shall we?'

A quick refresher on the parallel coins mentioned in the story:

Quote
Goldwater '76 dime
Joe Kennedy Sr. '72 half dollar
John Brown '27 penny
Eugene Victor Debs '44 quarter
Huey Long '58 nickel
William Randolph Hearst '69 silver dollar
Robert E. Lee 1888 three cent piece
Lindbergh '65 dime
Roy Cohn '92 quarter
P.T. Barnum '35 penny
Herbert Hoover '86 nickel
Benedict Arnold '98 quarter

Now what kind of alternate timelines (aTL's) could these each be from? None of these should be too hard because as the story implies, none really need a strong Point of Divergence (PoD) from Our Time Line (OTL). These are all public figures who could have been president (except for John Brown which seems more of a case of someone considered a hero by an ATL society being venerated on a coin).

Goldwater was a Senator, Papa Joe was a diplomat, Debs was the leader of the Socialist Party, Long was a governor, Cohn was a Justice Dep. attorney, Hoover actually was president.

Hearst was a newspaperman who exerted significant influence over policy via public opinion, Lindbergh was the darling of the America First political movement, Barnum was one of America's most beloved public speakers, Arnold and Lee were generals. All of which are plausible jumping points for presidential runs.

Even in a world closely resembling ours in most major points up to the election, many of these men could have become president in the normal course of events. The one's that would have required major PODs quite earlier would primarily be Lee (to prevent the Civil War or prevent Virginia from siding with the Confederacy or weaken his loyalty to Virginia somehow), Kennedy (to either keep the U.S. out of WWII or prevent him from staking his career on appeasement), Arnold (to prevent him from being sidelined in the Continental Army in favor of the less competent gloryhogging general Gates, which caused the dissatisfaction that led him eventually to treason), and most of all Debs. While these other men primarily need things differently in their own lives, not changing their personalities or world events but more along the lines of different decisions or plausible happenstances, Debs requires a significantly different America if we concede the point of him being elected as a socialist and not being an alternate Debs who never got arrested for the Pullman Strike and never read Marx.

But this is all preface. What about the kind of world these men would each leave after a presidency that would think highly enough of them to put their faces on currency?

Goldwater would be frankly as controversial as if we had Reagan or LBJ money today - we don't even have JFK money, and he was practically canonized after his assassination. Modern presidents are too close to modern politics and thus controversial due to partisanship. But if FDR could be put on the dime just one year after his death, putting a mid-60's president on the coin in the 70's isn't totally implausible.

Joe Sr., Huey Long, and Lindbergh could all be alternative Depression/WWII presidents - associated with that challenging time in American history and commemorated for it.

If America changed enough to elect Debs president, he would be transformative enough or a symbol of an existing transformation enough to merit in the eyes of the public a coin.

The rest I'll leave for now for possible thought or discussion, as I seem to be rambling.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 02:18:22 AM by NoNotRogov »



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Reply #48 on: April 14, 2011, 06:55:03 AM
Well I, for one, enjoyed that ramble.
Thank you, NoNotRogov.



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Reply #49 on: April 14, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
The one's that would have required major PODs quite earlier would primarily be Lee (to prevent the Civil War or prevent Virginia from siding with the Confederacy or weaken his loyalty to Virginia somehow),

That's an interesting take, and absolutely valid, as Lee was asked to become a general for the Union.  I think his answer was "I cannot betray my country." meaning Virginia.  I took the Lee money to indicate that in that time line the Confederate states won the war and became their own nation. 

Quote
we don't even have JFK money,

No?

The cow says "Mooooooooo"


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Reply #50 on: April 14, 2011, 01:53:26 PM
we don't even have JFK money,

No?


Obviously NoNotRogov is from one of those alternate worlds  :P

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Reply #51 on: April 14, 2011, 08:01:58 PM
Obviously NoNotRogov is from one of those alternate worlds  :P

Don't be ridiculous.

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Reply #52 on: April 18, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
I liked this story quite a bit.  It has been a long time since I heard (or read) a story where the narrator and/or main character actually had no clue what was happening.   

In the course of listening to the story the author managed to get me to think about half a dozen science fiction (and bleeding-edge science concepts) without really writing about any of them.   That was impressive.

I especially like that it is entirely possible that this guy is on the wrong end of a new TV Reality show where some producers mess with a guy for many years.  I would not be surprised if someone was doing that right now.   



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Reply #53 on: April 19, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
I especially like that it is entirely possible that this guy is on the wrong end of a new TV Reality show where some producers mess with a guy for many years.  I would not be surprised if someone was doing that right now.   

Ooh, that's a good alternate explanation.  In THAT case, this unnamed stranger is actually a cast member who is feigning interest with a hidden camera on his lapel.  And the audience is the television-viewing public.  I like it.



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Reply #54 on: April 19, 2011, 01:34:59 PM
I especially like that it is entirely possible that this guy is on the wrong end of a new TV Reality show where some producers mess with a guy for many years.  I would not be surprised if someone was doing that right now.   

The Truman Show already went there.  :P

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Reply #55 on: April 19, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
I listened to this on the way into work this morning, and found myself dumping the small amount of change I have on to my desk as soon as I walked in. Much to my dismay, I only found the faces of "the usual dead white guys" in my pocket.

While there wasn't much of a true story involved in this telling, the concept of inter-dimensional coinage finding its way into the hands of a "specialized collector" is still quite fascinating.

PS: I wonder how much the narrator could get for his 12 coins on Pawn Stars?



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Reply #56 on: April 20, 2011, 03:16:11 PM
I liked this a lot. As William Gibson said, plot is overrated anyway. Short stories should be about capturing something specific, in this case the mind of a collector and borderline personality. For me, the story could have done very well without the part explaining about alternate worlds etc, and also the ending dragged out a bit, but the part where we are slowly inhabiting his mind - pure gold.



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Reply #57 on: April 21, 2011, 02:12:32 PM
As William Gibson said, plot is overrated anyway.

Gibson can eat my ass with a spoon.  :P

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Reply #58 on: April 26, 2011, 09:46:04 PM
Another little gem of a story. Every now and then EP hits a real streak of good form, and this is one of those times  :)

I think this one works so well because the protagonist seems so real that the fantastic element, when it is finally introduced, seems real to.

I'm also glad that the writer didn't feel the need to drag the thing around the sort of plot a 'proper' story is supposed to have. The power of the piece came from its simplicity. That's what leaves it echoing in the reader's imagination.




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Reply #59 on: April 27, 2011, 08:16:06 PM
Awesome analysis! I enjoyed this as much as or more than the actual story.

-Adam

I thought it was a well minted character vignette.



Dohoho!

Anywho, alternate history is a hobby of mine - so let's examine that aspect of the story, shall we?'

A quick refresher on the parallel coins mentioned in the story:

Quote
Goldwater '76 dime
Joe Kennedy Sr. '72 half dollar
John Brown '27 penny
Eugene Victor Debs '44 quarter
Huey Long '58 nickel
William Randolph Hearst '69 silver dollar
Robert E. Lee 1888 three cent piece
Lindbergh '65 dime
Roy Cohn '92 quarter
P.T. Barnum '35 penny
Herbert Hoover '86 nickel
Benedict Arnold '98 quarter

Now what kind of alternate timelines (aTL's) could these each be from? None of these should be too hard because as the story implies, none really need a strong Point of Divergence (PoD) from Our Time Line (OTL). These are all public figures who could have been president (except for John Brown which seems more of a case of someone considered a hero by an ATL society being venerated on a coin).

Goldwater was a Senator, Papa Joe was a diplomat, Debs was the leader of the Socialist Party, Long was a governor, Cohn was a Justice Dep. attorney, Hoover actually was president.

Hearst was a newspaperman who exerted significant influence over policy via public opinion, Lindbergh was the darling of the America First political movement, Barnum was one of America's most beloved public speakers, Arnold and Lee were generals. All of which are plausible jumping points for presidential runs.

Even in a world closely resembling ours in most major points up to the election, many of these men could have become president in the normal course of events. The one's that would have required major PODs quite earlier would primarily be Lee (to prevent the Civil War or prevent Virginia from siding with the Confederacy or weaken his loyalty to Virginia somehow), Kennedy (to either keep the U.S. out of WWII or prevent him from staking his career on appeasement), Arnold (to prevent him from being sidelined in the Continental Army in favor of the less competent gloryhogging general Gates, which caused the dissatisfaction that led him eventually to treason), and most of all Debs. While these other men primarily need things differently in their own lives, not changing their personalities or world events but more along the lines of different decisions or plausible happenstances, Debs requires a significantly different America if we concede the point of him being elected as a socialist and not being an alternate Debs who never got arrested for the Pullman Strike and never read Marx.

But this is all preface. What about the kind of world these men would each leave after a presidency that would think highly enough of them to put their faces on currency?

Goldwater would be frankly as controversial as if we had Reagan or LBJ money today - we don't even have JFK money, and he was practically canonized after his assassination. Modern presidents are too close to modern politics and thus controversial due to partisanship. But if FDR could be put on the dime just one year after his death, putting a mid-60's president on the coin in the 70's isn't totally implausible.

Joe Sr., Huey Long, and Lindbergh could all be alternative Depression/WWII presidents - associated with that challenging time in American history and commemorated for it.

If America changed enough to elect Debs president, he would be transformative enough or a symbol of an existing transformation enough to merit in the eyes of the public a coin.

The rest I'll leave for now for possible thought or discussion, as I seem to be rambling.



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Reply #60 on: April 27, 2011, 08:22:37 PM
I can hear it now:

"Well, there's not really much of a market for these... And I actually have to find somewhere to sell them. And, you know, that's time I have to put in. Tell you what, I've feeling generous today sooo... $50."
"$50?! Geez um... I was hoping for more like 10 grand...Huh..."
"All right, all right. I'll give you $65 - that's something like 50 times the face value."
"But it's Goldwater on a dime!"
(silence)
*Sigh* "Oh, all right. $65." Mumbled: "*$#@ health insurance *&%$ going through the $#@& roof."

Later, to the camera:
"Holy $*&! I can't believe he sold these. I'm going to retire to Cancun."

I listened to this on the way into work this morning, and found myself dumping the small amount of change I have on to my desk as soon as I walked in. Much to my dismay, I only found the faces of "the usual dead white guys" in my pocket.

While there wasn't much of a true story involved in this telling, the concept of inter-dimensional coinage finding its way into the hands of a "specialized collector" is still quite fascinating.

PS: I wonder how much the narrator could get for his 12 coins on Pawn Stars?



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Reply #61 on: May 23, 2011, 08:26:34 PM
I flat-out *loved* this story, which hasn't happened for me on Escape Pod for a while. People complained that there wasn't a story, but I think that's a strenght here. Too many good concepts are ruined by trying to shoe-horn them into a narrative. This is a good example where the idea itself is worth exploring and trying to build a story around it might weight it down. Another example of this was "Problems in end-stage demon conflict..."
I like collecting things, and I love the idea of the narrator recognizing the uniqueness right off and finding them. I also liked the open-ended mystery of their origin, and I think a forced explanation might have hampered that mystery somewhat. It's a lot more exciting to have multiple possible implied causes than to lose the shadows to the spotlight of exposition.



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Reply #62 on: May 24, 2011, 06:41:23 AM
I liked the story and Norm's reading.
This story doesn't have a whole lot of actual story to it, but is a memorable portrait of a particular type of person.  The character of the narrator of the story becomes clear as the story unfolds, as he describes how he became interested in coin collecting as an occupation, and how it became the centre of his life.  His particular obsession - coins from other realities.
And that must be why.

I mean, hey, the title itself was a major spoiler (if not the whole story in a nutshell), but listening to this story was like watching Penn and Teller do the Cup and Balls trick. You know pretty much what to expect, but it's still entertaining to see.

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Reply #63 on: May 24, 2011, 08:09:13 AM
I mean, hey, the title itself was a major spoiler (if not the whole story in a nutshell)

Only if you're a North American. Otherwise, I recognise the word "dime".


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Reply #64 on: May 24, 2011, 03:16:25 PM
I mean, hey, the title itself was a major spoiler (if not the whole story in a nutshell)

Only if you're a North American. Otherwise, I recognise the word "dime".

And many younger North Americans wouldn't know it either.  I was not born yet during the time when Goldwater was a major name.  I did recognize the name, but I think I only did because I remembered the name from Stephen King's "Hearts in Atlantis" where someone had an "Au H2O" bumper sticker on their car (which are the chemical symbols for Goldwater).



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Reply #65 on: May 24, 2011, 03:24:08 PM
I mean, hey, the title itself was a major spoiler (if not the whole story in a nutshell)

Only if you're a North American. Otherwise, I recognise the word "dime".

And many younger North Americans wouldn't know it either.  I was not born yet during the time when Goldwater was a major name.  I did recognize the name, but I think I only did because I remembered the name from Stephen King's "Hearts in Atlantis" where someone had an "Au H2O" bumper sticker on their car (which are the chemical symbols for Goldwater).


I second this. I was born in the 80's, so the name Goldwater meant absolutely nothing to me.



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Reply #66 on: July 05, 2011, 05:52:15 PM
And Norm gives it just a perfect on-the-edge-of-demented reading...
Agree.  The narration was a great fit.

In spite of nothing happening, and the premise being spoiled by the title, I enjoyed it a lot.  The twisted-ness but believable-ness of the protagonist's perspective held my attention, i wasn't just waiting for something to happen.

But I don't think it closed very well.  The idea of "alternate reality coins" was my first thought from the title, so that was no surprise, and there was really no additional twist to the end.  I felt slightly insulted that author felt the need to explain it so clearly to me, in the absence of any other twist it might have been more fun if the protagonist had no concept of "alternate realities" and was barely interesting in the origin of the coins.