Pseudopod 230: Girls Gone Insane

[Bdoomed]

Pseudopod 230: Girls Gone Insane

By John Jasper Owens

Nossa Morte seems to no longer be online, but another of John’s stories can be found in DAY TERRORS at Amazon.com

Read by George Hrab.


“It came in the mail, a little package like Netflix uses, but white cardboard. Grass stain on the back along with a deep scratch, the address handwritten and smudged, like it had been handed off in the rain. No return address, postmarked Maine.

A DVD. No note, no explanation. A hand-written label read “Girls Gone Insane 16” in blocky felt-tip writing.”



Listen to this week's Pseudopod.

[LaHaine]

This was an average episode of Pseudopod. The revenge story was predictable, you could guess really early what's on the DVD. Otherwise, the setting of the story is nice.

[ElectricPaladin]

In a lot of ways, I liked this story. I enjoyed the creeping horror of it, the gradual realization of the guilt this guy has been living with and the terror that will be inflicted on its author. The writing and reading were both excellent - nearly perfect in fact. Girls Gone Insane was excellent paced. That said, there was one thing about the story that bugged me.

Girls Gone Insane tripped my feminist sense. It isn't that the story was about the sexual exploitation of women, slut-shaming, and the consequences therein - it's that none of the women in this story had any agency. They were victimized, punished, ignored, and destroyed. Even when they finally took action to get revenge, it was at the urging of a man, and with his help. I think the story would have been better - or at the very least, more distinct from the rest of the revenge porn genre - if the women had enjoyed more agency.

That said, I wouldn't go so far as to accuse the story of being bad, just unexceptional, and a few small changes would have made it really interesting.

The title had me thinking of a Girls Gone Wild/H. P. Lovecraft mashup. Don't know where that would have gone...

[zoanon]

I totally agree with electric paladin. it weirded me out that they needed to use the very drug they had been abused with to get revenge.

[eytanz]

I mostly agree with Electric Paladin, though I should point out that there is one female character with agency, which is the current girlfriend (who plays the DVD).

[ElectricPaladin]

I mostly agree with Electric Paladin, though I should point out that there is one female character with agency, which is the current girlfriend (who plays the DVD).

Nah. She was scene dressing.

I totally agree with electric paladin. it weirded me out that they needed to use the very drug they had been abused with to get revenge.

That I actually kind of dug. It was neat when they used his own drugs to turn the tables on him. It reminded me of the Maenads.

[kibitzer]

I really liked this story. The reading and the gradual reveals had me in from the first, and the whole atmosphere kept me there to the end. My reaction was emotional rather than intellectual; I found myself sick with sympathy for the protag's old girlfriend. And the description of the barn scene was creepy. Creepy, I say! An excellent story.

[iamafish]

The title had me thinking of a Girls Gone Wild/H. P. Lovecraft mashup. Don't know where that would have gone...

tentacle porn. Basically japan.

[Unblinking]

Great narration, great title (a good example of a title that makes you want to hear the story).

I'm not a huge fan of revenge stories in general.  Besides Inigo Montoya's anyway.  So it had an uphill battle for me to like it to begin with.

IMO the title overpromised.  I thought it was going to be an alt reality twisted version of Girls Gone Wild, where instead of young women taking their tops off, it would be young women having their minds hollowed out by a visit from the Elder Gods or some such thing.  A revelation of systematic drugging of Girls Gone Wild is horrible enough, but it still didn't really seem to match the title.

The story did a reasonably good job of revealing the backstory.  But nothing much happened in the present.  The protagonist, in particular, never did anything in the now-story OR the backstory, except leave his classified government research keys in a jar on the counter like a dumbass.  He sat passively while his roommate ruined a lot of people's lives.  Then he sat passively while his own girlfriend's life is ruined.  And then when he gets a new video that dredges all that up, he again does not affect anything, his girlfriend is even the one to run the video.  Everything in the story had already happened and so there was a big lack of tension for me.  There was the question of what was on the video, but I figured it was either revenge, or the videomaker sending a taunt.

What bothered me more than anything was the act of drugging the girls to fulfill his own revenge fantasy.  Their lives have been ruined by a widely witnessed loss of control, and somehow this wider loss of control is supposed to make everything better?  The story itself said that this drug does not force you to do what you don't want to do, it removes your consideration of your consequences.  That means that whatever you do, is something that you wanted to do, something that's a part of you that you're not comfortable seeing in the open.  Imagine if one of these girls catches a glimpse of this video, probably when it's been leaked to the press, see a video of herself cutting a man's limbs off with a chainsaw, that would be something from which she might never mentally recover.  It's one thing to imagine revenge on a person, another thing entirely to see what kind of atrocities you are actually capable of, what kind of messed up psychosis you have lurking behind the mask of society.  Imagining that was certainly very good horror, but I got the impression that wasn't the reaction I was supposed to get from that (or it probably would've been center stage, a story told by one of the girls as SHE came across her video and had to try to cope with seeing that).  I got the impression instead that I was supposed to approve of the contents of the video without thinking about it too much.

[eytanz]

Wait, the girls in the revenge DVD were not drugged by the brother. They took the drug knowingly. Whatever the consequences of the revenge, they were willing accomplices in it.

[Unblinking]

Wait, the girls in the revenge DVD were not drugged by the brother. They took the drug knowingly. Whatever the consequences of the revenge, they were willing accomplices in it.

That's not the impression I got.  I thought they were drugged already and the mixing of the drinks was a show for the camera--getting someone to take that drink is easy if they're already out of their gourd.  Maybe I misread that.

But even if I didn't misread that, I don't find the prospect of any of those girls coming across the video later any less disturbing.  It's one thing to abstractly say "God, I'd like to kill that bastard", and another thing entirely to see a video that you don't remember where you are severing limbs from his living body with a chainsaw.  The guy made the original videos is probably already dead by the time of this story, so his pain is over, but this last video has the potentially to cause irreperable psychological damage to the girls therein--the publicly released videos are bad enough for the social damage they caused but the girls can justify that reasonably that by being drugged unknowingly.  I don't know if it would be more horrible if they were entirely conscious of their choice to take the drug for the last video (then they'd have no excuse in court when this hits the press, and would know that it was 100% on their consciences and knowinga bout the messed up portion of themselves beneath the surface) or if he gave it to them (the loss of control, and would know that they've got some f'ed up portion of themselves hidden beneath the surface).

[ElectricPaladin]

Wait, the girls in the revenge DVD were not drugged by the brother. They took the drug knowingly. Whatever the consequences of the revenge, they were willing accomplices in it.

For whatever it's worth, this was my impression also. I thought the story was quite clear that the girls developed a glassy stare after drinking.

[Unblinking]

Wait, the girls in the revenge DVD were not drugged by the brother. They took the drug knowingly. Whatever the consequences of the revenge, they were willing accomplices in it.

For whatever it's worth, this was my impression also. I thought the story was quite clear that the girls developed a glassy stare after drinking.

Maybe that was just me adding that part because I find it hard to believe that anyone would willingly take that drug and willingly videotape the result.  Especially someone who has unwillingly taken it before and had her life ruined by the tape.

[Listener]

IMO the title overpromised.  I thought it was going to be an alt reality twisted version of Girls Gone Wild, where instead of young women taking their tops off, it would be young women having their minds hollowed out by a visit from the Elder Gods or some such thing.  A revelation of systematic drugging of Girls Gone Wild is horrible enough, but it still didn't really seem to match the title.

That.

I thought the story was somewhat average, but was made better by a great reading.

Perhaps it wasn't so much that the girls wanted to use the drugs to get revenge, but that they were so ashamed by what they had done that they were unable to confront their abuser without them. They had Fiona's brother for protection, but... well, I haven't been in a situation where I did something on camera and then regretted it, but I have been in a situation where I needed to confront someone who had victimized me personally. It's really hard, even if the person who did it is completely powerless. It helps to have a little something to get you going.

Kind of a side note, but given the items the girls were going to use, it seemed like Marco wouldn't have lasted very long. Sharp instruments = lots of bleeding, especially in the hands of amateurs. Blunt ones can kill too, but I think Marco would've lasted longer. Just saying.

[Unblinking]

Perhaps it wasn't so much that the girls wanted to use the drugs to get revenge, but that they were so ashamed by what they had done that they were unable to confront their abuser without them. They had Fiona's brother for protection, but... well, I haven't been in a situation where I did something on camera and then regretted it, but I have been in a situation where I needed to confront someone who had victimized me personally. It's really hard, even if the person who did it is completely powerless. It helps to have a little something to get you going.

I'm surprised that any of them even want to drink alcohol anymore.  I would think that the loss of control would terrify them after their experience.  I can understand wanting a little something to get you going, "liquid courage" so to speak.  But it seems that with that drug they have no idea what they'll do.  At least with alcohol, if you have a beer you're probably going to loosen up a bit but without all the embarrassing stripping and dismembering (unless you're really a lightweight).  With this stuff, hell, maybe they all just think that Fiona's brother an asshole and they end up dismembering him too, or each other.  Or maybe some of them have secret masochistic tendencies and they turn weapons on themselves.  If one has hidden masochistic tendencies and the part of your brain that analyzes consequences is not working, so that you're not thinking about scarring or going into shock or bleeding to death, that's sort of a problem.  And the moment of event horizon is when you swallow the drug, after that you can't back out in any way.

In any case, the more I think about it the less it makes sense for any of these women to choose to take the drug again.  It's like they aren't thinking ahead to consequences at all.  Which I think is why I assumed they were all already secretly drugged, because that's the only way they could make such a poor decision.  That seemed like the only rational explanation, unless the past taking of it caused damage to the same part of the brain that the drug affects.

[eytanz]

In any case, the more I think about it the less it makes sense for any of these women to choose to take the drug again.  It's like they aren't thinking ahead to consequences at all.  Which I think is why I assumed they were all already secretly drugged, because that's the only way they could make such a poor decision.  That seemed like the only rational explanation, unless the past taking of it caused damage to the same part of the brain that the drug affects.

There are plenty of people in the world who take all sorts of drugs or alcohol even though they have had really bad experiences. Some of them are addicts, but others just think that their life sober is bad enough that the temporary enjoyment of the drug outweighs the consequences.

In this case, I think most of the women felt that their lives were already destroyed, and that their desire for revenge outweighed the feeling of loss of control. They took the drug, I think, for two reasons - the first is to ensure that they go through with it, and the second is because they wanted to turn the guy's drug against him. Rational or realistic? Probably not. But I think that it makes more sense to me that the story is being less realistic than assume that an event that happened in it (the women deliberately drinking the drugs) was a sham and that the real drugging happened off-camera and off-story. I don't disagree with you that that may be a better story - I just think that that's not the story we have here.

That said, this argument is a bit of a distraction from the main point of the story in my eyes; for me, the rather simplistic condemnation of the Girls Gone Wild phenomenon, and the very contrived revenge scenario, are not what's interesting about the story. What's interesting is the character's history, and his guilt at how he treated his former girlfriend. That felt very believable to me, and very, very, horrible.

[stePH]

The title had me thinking of a Girls Gone Wild/H. P. Lovecraft mashup. Don't know where that would have gone...

tentacle porn. Basically japan.

What's a late '70s British glam band have to do with the subject? 

[kibitzer]

The title had me thinking of a Girls Gone Wild/H. P. Lovecraft mashup. Don't know where that would have gone...

tentacle porn. Basically japan.

What's a late '70s British glam band have to do with the subject? 

Don't go beatin' ur Tin Drum.

[matweller]

I had two thoughts on the girls taking the drugs to do the deed. One side was that there was a certain irony in the guy getting offed by his own creation that they appreciated. As if to say, "When you did this to us last time, you got all the benefit. Now, lets see who gets what they want when we take it on our terms." The other thought was that in the case of revenge, the removal of all inhibitions would be the only way to make it truly horrifying. Despite what movies and the military teach us, I would wager that 99% of the population does not really have the stomach to truly and deeply hurt someone physically. Most of us would be stopped by our humanity or guilt or a variety of other emotions. By taking the drug, they were in a way saying, "This is going to get messy, and I want to make sure it gets as nasty as possible."

[stePH]

tentacle porn. Basically japan.

What's a late '70s British glam band have to do with the subject? 

Don't go beatin' ur Tin Drum.

Just remember that gentlemen take Polaroids.

[Unblinking]

I don't disagree with you that that may be a better story - I just think that that's not the story we have here.

I'm not arguing with you there.  I'm pretty sure that you're right, there was not intended to be any pre-drugging, that was just my own mental interpretation despite contradictions in the text. 

I had two thoughts on the girls taking the drugs to do the deed. One side was that there was a certain irony in the guy getting offed by his own creation that they appreciated. As if to say, "When you did this to us last time, you got all the benefit. Now, lets see who gets what they want when we take it on our terms." The other thought was that in the case of revenge, the removal of all inhibitions would be the only way to make it truly horrifying. Despite what movies and the military teach us, I would wager that 99% of the population does not really have the stomach to truly and deeply hurt someone physically. Most of us would be stopped by our humanity or guilt or a variety of other emotions. By taking the drug, they were in a way saying, "This is going to get messy, and I want to make sure it gets as nasty as possible."

Yeah, I assume those were what the author was going for.  What bothers me though is that the guy they were supposedly having revenge on probably died very quickly from blood loss.  But the ones perpetrating the revenge will have to live with this guilt for the rest of their lives.  Especially when it leaks to the press, as it inevitably will.  And when they end up in jail because they willingly ingested the drug with the intent to do torturous murder.  So I'm just not sure their revenge worked all that well. 

[matweller]

Somehow I doubt the larger body of "Girls Gone Wild" participants have ever demonstrated a concern for long term repercussions.

[Unblinking]

Somehow I doubt the larger body of "Girls Gone Wild" participants have ever demonstrated a concern for long term repercussions.

Maybe that's true of the real life videos.  For all I know, many of those women were drugged as well (a truly chilling thought), but I have no way of knowing one way or the other.  Regarding the story, though, if you buy into the premise at all, then there's no reason to think that these girls normally have a lack of concern for long term repercussions.  These girls only participated in those first videos when they were drugged; criticizing their decision-making skills based on that doesn't make much sense.  Presumably the drug was necessary for them to participate, or what was the point?  If one dismisses their ability to make decisions so readily, then the drug becomes extraneous. 

For the final video, if their ability to gauge the consequences is so poor that they'd actually choose to take that drug, then their ability to gauge consequences is so poor that the drug probably wouldn't work any discernible difference upon them. 

[ElectricPaladin]

Somehow I doubt the larger body of "Girls Gone Wild" participants have ever demonstrated a concern for long term repercussions.

Maybe that's true of the real life videos.  For all I know, many of those women were drugged as well (a truly chilling thought), but I have no way of knowing one way or the other.  Regarding the story, though, if you buy into the premise at all, then there's no reason to think that these girls normally have a lack of concern for long term repercussions.  These girls only participated in those first videos when they were drugged; criticizing their decision-making skills based on that doesn't make much sense.  Presumably the drug was necessary for them to participate, or what was the point?  If one dismisses their ability to make decisions so readily, then the drug becomes extraneous. 

As far as I can tell, the women in the real life Girls Gone Wild videos are only self-intoxicated.

However, you want to hear a real life horror story? Girls Gone Wild is basically a rapemobile of epic proportions. The producer, a few of his buddies, and at least one camerman have been repeatedly accused of taking drunk girls into the van and forcing them to have sex - and not just coercing a drunken hookup, but violent rape.

Then, when they are accused, they use their victims' participation in the video to smear their character and invalidate their accusation.

Damn, I can hear the Pseudopod theme playing in the back of my mind...

Source (among others): http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/girls-gone-wild-boss-accused-rape

[Swamp]

The title made me extremely wary of this story, but I also thought it might be a Lovecraftian hook.  I have to admit that the idea of Joe Francis, ur...I mean Marko, strung up for his victims to enact revenge had a certain appeal, and it was certainly horrorific, exchanging one sin for another. 

I like how the story does not dwell on the pornography, but on the damage that it does to those involved.  Pornography as the expression of free speech is the biggest crock sold to the public today.

[eytanz]

I like how the story does not dwell on the pornography, but on the damage that it does to those involved.  Pornography as the expression of free speech is the biggest crock sold to the public today.

Or, if one were so inclined politically, one could argue that the true damage was done here by the cultural stigmas that made the victims of being drugged and sexually exploited unable to function properly in society afterwards.

I am also very wary of generalizing from the non-consensual sexual acts that are in the root of this story to all pornography. There's a lot of terrible exploitation going on in the world that needs to be eliminated, but I am very firmly of the opinion that if two (or more) adults want to engage in consensual sexual activity on camera and profit from it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Scattercat]

EP has me covered on this one.  Still, I'm willing to read it as Maenads rather than yet-another-male-exploitation; it seems like that was a lot closer to what the author would have intended it to mean, within the context of the story. 

The title made me expect something more like this.  (Warning: Ad for Tim and Eric autoplays first.)  (Son of Warning: It's Robot Chicken, so, y'know, plastic dolls doing horrible things, in case you're squicked easily.)

[JohnJasperOwens]

I'd like to thank everyone for listening and commenting. My podcast at Cast Macabre seems to be unavailable, but I'm proud of my humor at Yankee Pot Roast, the story I have archived at TQR, and my stories at 10Flash. People seem to like the story mentioned above, in the Day Terrors antho, although I don't consider it one of my best. Thank y'all again for y'all's consideration.

[kibitzer]

EP has me covered on this one.  Still, I'm willing to read it as Maenads rather than yet-another-male-exploitation; it seems like that was a lot closer to what the author would have intended it to mean, within the context of the story. 

The title made me expect something more like this.  (Warning: Ad for Tim and Eric autoplays first.)  (Son of Warning: It's Robot Chicken, so, y'know, plastic dolls doing horrible things, in case you're squicked easily.)

Further warning: it doesn't play outside the US. Coz y'know teh Internets is about global access. :-(

[Unblinking]

My podcast at Cast Macabre seems to be unavailable

Your Cast Macabre episode seems to be working fine for me, both for streaming and downloading:
http://www.castmacabre.org/2010/08/cm-ep-14-nice-guy-by-john-jasper-owens.html

[Balu]

I like how the story does not dwell on the pornography, but on the damage that it does to those involved.  Pornography as the expression of free speech is the biggest crock sold to the public today.

Or, if one were so inclined politically, one could argue that the true damage was done here by the cultural stigmas that made the victims of being drugged and sexually exploited unable to function properly in society afterwards.
 

One could, but one would be unwise to do so. Women are poor, delicate flowers that us big strong men have to protect by deciding what they can and cannot (especially cannot) do with their reproductive organs.

Whether the men doing the deciding are horrid hairy arabs with shares in a burkha factory or lovely enlightened liberals who shudder every time they log on to xhamster, the core value remains the same. Culture after culture, age after age. It's almost as though there's some sort of biological hardwiring going on.

[Balu]

Somehow I doubt the larger body of "Girls Gone Wild" participants have ever demonstrated a concern for long term repercussions.

Yeah, that's why it was such a great story. It is fucked up that young women who are often vulnerable (if only because they're shitfaced) can have their lives put out to ransom by the assholes who produce these things.

As an afficianado of porn I must admit that I'd never really thought about this before. Now that I have I think that there should be some sort of ongoing consent clause that would allow the girls gone wild, or even insane, to pull the plug on the commercial production and distribution of their performances.

I love it when fiction makes me think.

[deflective]

there's a little dissonance between your last two posts.

you believe women are being fully capable of deciding what to do without the direction (or protection) of men.  why would these performers need the law to protect them above and beyond the rights given to other actors?

[Scattercat]

there's a little dissonance between your last two posts.

you believe women are being fully capable of deciding what to do without the direction (or protection) of men.  why would these performers need the law to protect them above and beyond the rights given to other actors?

Because right now the social stigma is such that a pornographer in possession of 'compromising' images can 'ruin' the women by releasing them.  Until that changes, extra protections may be necessary to help keep the balance of power more equal.

[deflective]

a decision a woman is able comprehend and make on her own.  the reason why the pictures are valuable, and why people are pursuing her to make them, is exactly because there's social stigma attached to them.

certainly, if this existed, we'd want to extend this protection to men as well.  whatever stigma there is for women, it's an order of magnitude worse for men in gay pornography.

and if we extend it that far, why restrict it to pornography?  how about bumfights or jackass type videos?  that kind of stuff attached to your name also comes with a stigma.

heck, there's some reality show where the guy who was Vanilla Ice was all torn up about the laughing stock he'd become.  i doubt many people believe he should be able to tear up his contract.

[Scattercat]

Vanilla Ice became a laughingstock because he was a lip-synching loser with no actual talent.  That's not a case of one bad decision.

Who said anything about limiting the hypothetical increased-protection clause in performance contracts to only female pornography stars?  You're drawing several false equivalencies here.  Slippery slope and strawman, too, for that matter.

[deflective]

Who said anything about limiting the hypothetical increased-protection clause in performance contracts to only female pornography stars?

both you and Balu specifically & exclusively mentioned women when talking about this special actor protection.

You're drawing several false equivalencies here.  Slippery slope and strawman, too, for that matter.

i was trying to speed the process along by showing the inevitable result of trying to introduce a legal structure like this, but if you prefer to do it step by step: who do you think it should cover (ie, what degree of pornography should get this protection)?  x rated?  soft core?  people flashing the camera for mardi gras b-roll?

[Hafwit]

The way I understood it, the women had inhibitions and needed to lose them, in order to exact a fitting revenge. They choose to take the drug, so I don't see them as being without agency. The story could have worked without the brother though. If he'd have been a participant in the carnage it might've been a teensy bit better (but they'd needed another person for the cam).

If I may be personal for a sec, I'd like to thank the Pseudopod people for a generally excellent podcast. I'm going through some seriously tough times, and I'm glad to have something good to listen to. Thank you.

[Balu]

there's a little dissonance between your last two posts.

you believe women are being fully capable of deciding what to do without the direction (or protection) of men.  why would these performers need the law to protect them above and beyond the rights given to other actors?

That wasn't dissonance, it was rum.

Anyhoo you're right that porn stars of all genders should be treated equally, but my point still stands. Given the potentially destructive consequences that appearing in this sort of film can have on their future lives the performers should retain the legal right to refuse permission for it to be distributed.

[Balu]

I was trying to speed the process along by showing the inevitable result of trying to introduce a legal structure like this, but if you prefer to do it step by step: who do you think it should cover (ie, what degree of pornography should get this protection)?  x rated?  soft core?  people flashing the camera for mardi gras b-roll?

Good question.

Perhaps the best answer is, anything that it would be illegal to show a minor doing.

[Millenium_King]

I think it was an interesting idea to tackle this sort of socio-political issue via horror fiction, but I found the execution a little lackluster.  I also found the commentary fairly heavy handed.  The drug was clearly a stand in for alchohol, "Girls Gone Insane" an obvious stand in for "Girls Gone Wild" etc.  I felt the story lacked in the sort of metaphor that makes for good social criticism (cf. "People are the Same All Over" from Twilight Zone or "Let that be your Last Battlefield" from ST:TOS or "Dawn of the Dead" etc.).  I also felt the story lacked any sense of nuance or subtlety: it was a straight revenge fantasy.  The girls were 2D and Marco was 2D as well.  The writing was good, very transparent and well paced.  The narration good.

The subject is one I haven't seen tackled in horror, so I just really felt this one missed a good opportunity to make a strong, original commentary on modern society (cf. "The Disconnected" for a good example).

[deflective]

Given the potentially destructive consequences that appearing in this sort of film can have on their future lives the performers should retain the legal right to refuse permission for it to be distributed.

this was the point i was trying to drive towards.  laws like this are exactly the kind of thing those enlightened liberals shuddering at xhamster use.

we're specifically pointing and saying that this, this, is so bad that we need to make a law so that people who make the mistake of doing it have a chance to recover.  it reinforces the culture that shames people who choose to do it.

there are laws of this type in existence but it's important that they aren't directed at specific lifestyle choices.  buyer's remorse clauses allow people back out within a day or two after they've bought a major purchase (car, house, boat, etc).  but if it only covered sports cars then it would be an implicit condemnation of sports cars.

this law would need to cover a broad base in order to avoid doing more damage than good to the very people you want to help.

[JohnJasperOwens]

re: the larger discussion, I'm genuinely conflicted about laws against prostitution and pornography. Philosophically they're paternalistic in nature, leading down the road toward women-as-chattel. "We will be the judge of what you can do with your body, young lady." In the real world, however, there's no denying that both prostitution and pornography generate a lot of societal problems, most horribly forced prostitution. I do believe the current patchwork of laws/selective enforcement we live under is insufficient, but I have no idea what should be done about it.

[Balu]

re: the larger discussion, I'm genuinely conflicted about laws against prostitution and pornography. Philosophically they're paternalistic in nature, leading down the road toward women-as-chattel. "We will be the judge of what you can do with your body, young lady." In the real world, however, there's no denying that both prostitution and pornography generate a lot of societal problems, most horribly forced prostitution. I do believe the current patchwork of laws/selective enforcement we live under is insufficient, but I have no idea what should be done about it.

Yeah, that patchwork enforcement is a problem in and of itself. You either have the rule of law or not.

As for the details of this debate I would say that if you perform exhibitionist sexual acts for love, money or any other reason then its your right to do so. The problem is that, after those exhibitionist acts are recorded, you lose the power to say 'no' even if you later decide that you want to.

This story makes me think that this is something that should be changed. 

[Millenium_King]

As for the details of this debate I would say that if you perform exhibitionist sexual acts for love, money or any other reason then its your right to do so. The problem is that, after those exhibitionist acts are recorded, you lose the power to say 'no' even if you later decide that you want to.

This story makes me think that this is something that should be changed. 

How would you do that?  Once a video hits the internet, all bets are off.

And then we get into the tricky part about where to draw the line.  Do our new laws protect only lewd conduct in public (which is already illegal, by the way)?  Or can a video of a man tripping in a funny manner become illegal to distribute?  Or what about a politician's gaffe?  Or a celebrity's misstep?

[Balu]

As for the details of this debate I would say that if you perform exhibitionist sexual acts for love, money or any other reason then its your right to do so. The problem is that, after those exhibitionist acts are recorded, you lose the power to say 'no' even if you later decide that you want to.

This story makes me think that this is something that should be changed.  

How would you do that?  Once a video hits the internet, all bets are off.

No, the internet isn't really that free. Think about what happens to people who deal in images of rape or child molestation. Sure they're out there, but they're frightened and hunted.

Forced exhibitionism could be put into a similar category.

[matweller]

Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your choices and the consequences. All of the consequences. That's not to say that consequences can't bounce back too. In the story, the girls put themselves in a high-risk situation, that led to getting drugged and getting uncomfortable video shot of them. On the flip side, the G.G.I. guy chose to take advantage of people which after a time led to them turning on him and him having a gristly death. The unspoken aftermath is flipped back on the girls who chose to take revenge and will now have to face legal repercussions. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

[eytanz]

In the story, the girls put themselves in a high-risk situation, that led to getting drugged and getting uncomfortable video shot of them.

What high risk situation? The girls in the story went on holiday and were having fun in holiday resorts. Are you proposing that young women should not travel on their own and engage in recreational activities?

[ElectricPaladin]

In the story, the girls put themselves in a high-risk situation, that led to getting drugged and getting uncomfortable video shot of them.

What high risk situation? The girls in the story went on holiday and were having fun in holiday resorts. Are you proposing that young women should not travel on their own and engage in recreational activities?

Of course. I mean, women just need to be prepared for these sorts of possibilities. It's also why they should pay for extra insurance to cover aborting rape babies - I have a spare tired for my car!

</extremely bitter sarcasm that might get me banned or at least reprimanded>

[Unblinking]

In the story, the girls put themselves in a high-risk situation, that led to getting drugged and getting uncomfortable video shot of them.

What high risk situation? The girls in the story went on holiday and were having fun in holiday resorts. Are you proposing that young women should not travel on their own and engage in recreational activities?

This was my reaction.  There was no indication that these women were doing anything more than going out for a drink (I assume they were out for a drink, anyway, as that's the most likely place to get roofied).

[Fenrix]

So, why was the video mailed to the protagonist? To allow him to participate in the catharsis? Or a threat?

[eytanz]

I don't think there was any reason for the protagonist to be threatened; his position was remarkably close to that of the girlfriend's brother who filmed the video (loved his girlfriend, turned away from her after she appeared in the porn, realized his error only too late, after her suicide). Since the brother collected other victims to participate in the video, I took the intent to be to allow him to share in the revenge.

[deflective]

from what i remember, the roommate stole the drug from the protagonist.
the question is whether or not the brother knows the drug was stolen.

[matweller]

In the story, the girls put themselves in a high-risk situation, that led to getting drugged and getting uncomfortable video shot of them.

What high risk situation? The girls in the story went on holiday and were having fun in holiday resorts. Are you proposing that young women should not travel on their own and engage in recreational activities?

Of course. I mean, women just need to be prepared for these sorts of possibilities. It's also why they should pay for extra insurance to cover aborting rape babies - I have a spare tired for my car!

</extremely bitter sarcasm that might get me banned or at least reprimanded>

Admittedly, I haven't listened to this since it came out, and maybe not closely enough then. But I guess I assumed the part where the GGI director approaches the girls in a club was patterned after the way I've been led to believe GGW does it, which is to approach the already inebriated, lubricate them more, and start suggesting progressively more risque activities until the 'actresses' find themselves making out with other 'actresses' in the shower of an R.V.

The decision to take certain risks through the evening was made before leaving the hotel, or it wasn't, which is a decision in itself and makes one no less responsible.

I'm going to go out drinking - RISK LEVEL: 30% - ACCEPTABLE
I'm going to talk to strangers that chat me up at the bar - RISK LEVEL: 40% - WARNING
If I like said stranger, I could be open to more intimate contact - RISK LEVEL: 50% - HOPE YOU DON'T END UP IN A DITCH

We all decide every moment whether the potential risks of a situation are worth the potential rewards. Sometimes we press on even when the red lights start flashing. What happened to them is not their fault, but most of the risk of it could have been removed by going roller skating and having a Pepsi. Right? If you don't understand that, I hope you never have daughters.

And untwist your panties, because it wasn't a sexist comment. I used to hang with a kid who got rolled outside a bar by a chick who did the same thing to him but took him outside to "meet her friends" after spotting the $50 in his wallet. When he tells the story, the first thing he says is "I should have been more careful" not "America's a free country and men are liberated so I should be able to wave money around in a public place and expect only to be showered in adoration and sparkly unicorn farts."

[Fenrix]

I don't think there was any reason for the protagonist to be threatened; his position was remarkably close to that of the girlfriend's brother who filmed the video (loved his girlfriend, turned away from her after she appeared in the porn, realized his error only too late, after her suicide). Since the brother collected other victims to participate in the video, I took the intent to be to allow him to share in the revenge.

from what i remember, the roommate stole the drug from the protagonist.
the question is whether or not the brother knows the drug was stolen.

Catharsis does make more sense due to the passivity of the protagonist. His biggest sin was inaction, which is very murky to judge.

Maybe I missed a bit but I thought the protagonist helped cook the drugs. At minimum, it was his identification and clearance that allowed access to the university labs where the drugs were cooked.

[eytanz]

I don't think there was any reason for the protagonist to be threatened; his position was remarkably close to that of the girlfriend's brother who filmed the video (loved his girlfriend, turned away from her after she appeared in the porn, realized his error only too late, after her suicide). Since the brother collected other victims to participate in the video, I took the intent to be to allow him to share in the revenge.

from what i remember, the roommate stole the drug from the protagonist.
the question is whether or not the brother knows the drug was stolen.

Catharsis does make more sense due to the passivity of the protagonist. His biggest sin was inaction, which is very murky to judge.

Maybe I missed a bit but I thought the protagonist helped cook the drugs. At minimum, it was his identification and clearance that allowed access to the university labs where the drugs were cooked.

I think it was made quite clear that the drugs were stolen from him; his mistake was being lax about security (letting the roommate know about the drugs and making it possible for him to access them). Deflective is right in that I don't think the story was explicit about whether the brother knew the drugs were stolen. But the revenge scenario seems less plausible since the brother essentially incriminated himself by sending the DVD - he had to trust the protagonist not to just go to the police right away. It seems to me that the only reason the brother would believe that is if he believes the protagonist would be sympathetic to his cause.

[justenjoying]

The chick in this story is the worst example of the female species ever. That said I love the satisfieing spin on what really happens in porn. I can't get the ending out of my mind. This story made me walk away with a smile and a little more faith that there is justice in the world. I think that says more about me than the story.