Author Topic: PC164: A Hunter’s Ode To His Bait  (Read 19624 times)

Devoted135

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Reply #25 on: July 08, 2011, 02:37:05 PM
can I just point to Scattercat's first post and nod vigorously? no? okay then :P

I listened to the whole story with baited breath for the shock that never came. (wow, I'm getting jaded) I'm actually really tempted to go look up that first outraged debate and see what all the fuss was about.

It's interesting that even though we keep referencing how unicorn stories represent man's view of woman, this story was actually written by an empowered, modern-day woman. It was a refreshing that Eleanor was characterized as growing into a smart, confident woman who was comfortable with her role in the world and with what she (eventually) perceived to be an equal relationship with Duncan. At the same time, I'm disappointed that her ultimate victory was to use her body to entrap two wily old men against their will. It would have been a much stronger ending if Duncan wanted to go after the final unicorn and Eleanor found the ability to say "no, we're done. It's time to move on" (IMHO).


Just as an aside my 13yo son tells me a unicorn without a horn is called a nullacorn.  :-\

I love this! :D



grokman

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Reply #26 on: July 08, 2011, 10:47:06 PM
Unicorns have bloodlust and don't just sit all pretty farting out rainbows on posters in pre-teen girls' rooms? AWESOME!



Salul

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Reply #27 on: July 09, 2011, 02:43:23 AM
I'm with Trickster61 on this. I also thought it was kinda gritty fantasy. I liked it. And the world building too. It seemed to be like a late Medieval English setting with fading magic in it.

But most of all, I was really quite impressed with the writing. This incidentally runs counter to my reaction to Amaryllis (by the same authoress, yes?) which really didn't impress me. This then begs the question, what am I thinking when I listen to different stories? or is it how and when they are written? or everything wrapped up into one?

Maybe it was that I was trying to pay more attention to each sentence, to the flow of the narrative, but I really thought it was well written. Congratulations to Vaughn.

And double congratulations to the narrator. It might be a bit idle to judge a story by its narration, but what is one to do with audio tales and podcasts if not at least a little of this? I really digged it all round.

As for the shockingness, I guess shameless unicorn-killers are inherently nasty characters. And yes, that sex scene at the end is just kinda creepy. But both characters were nicely rounded; complex, alert, even sensitive. Highly so, in fact.

Yep, I liked this one.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 02:46:06 AM by Salul »

There be islands in the Central Sea, whose waters are bounded by no shore and where no ships come...

Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett, 18th Baron of Dunsany


Brynn

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Reply #28 on: July 10, 2011, 01:13:00 AM
I didn't think the story was especially shocking, either. It read like just another fantasy story to me.

Of course, I think that because Eleanor was really anything but innocent, the unicorns should have seen through her. She may have been a physical virgin, but I think that because her intentions were dark, that should have soiled her somehow.

I'd rather have seen the unicorn see through her treachery, spear her with his horn, and walked away offended at the false innocence.  :)



kibitzer

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Reply #29 on: July 10, 2011, 04:02:15 AM
Scattercat, I had English teachers like you.

I hated English class.

Just saying. :)

This made me absolutely, truly laugh out loud.

Just saying :-)


Obleo21

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Reply #30 on: July 10, 2011, 01:26:35 PM
(To clarify, when I said "ultimate man," I meant ultimate in Eleanor's eyes.  She was raised by him from her preteen years, and while he's hardly an ideal parent, he's clearly at least better than her biological parents and far from overtly abusive; of course she idolizes him and views him as hers to catch.  The whole episode with the final unicorn is Eleanor's last and strongest bid to win his heart, which she does by offering herself as bait, but this time doing it extra sexily.)

I enjoyed this story and did not find it offensive, but if anything had an ick factor, I think it would be this.  Duncan is a father figure that she decides to seduce and he lets her.  I got the sense that she is punishing herself for participation in the destruction of magic for no purpose.  The story states over and over that they were wealthy enough to stop.



Spindaddy

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Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 01:30:35 AM

I'd rather have seen the unicorn see through her treachery, spear her with his horn, and walked away offended at the false innocence.  :)

I'm with you there. I was rooting for the unicorns!

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iamafish

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Reply #32 on: July 11, 2011, 08:12:41 PM
well i enjoyed it.

I was waiting for the truly shocking part, maybe a bit of bestiality or rape, but in the end it was just a slightly unconventional setting for the consummation of a slightly strange, probably unhealthy but still kinda touching relationship. It's good to see unicorns portrayed without a bloody rainbow for once, though.

another good story from Pod Castle, 2011 has been pretty for from the castle so far! Keep up the good work folks.


Scattercat

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Reply #33 on: July 12, 2011, 07:56:06 AM
(To clarify, when I said "ultimate man," I meant ultimate in Eleanor's eyes.  She was raised by him from her preteen years, and while he's hardly an ideal parent, he's clearly at least better than her biological parents and far from overtly abusive; of course she idolizes him and views him as hers to catch.  The whole episode with the final unicorn is Eleanor's last and strongest bid to win his heart, which she does by offering herself as bait, but this time doing it extra sexily.)
I enjoyed this story and did not find it offensive, but if anything had an ick factor, I think it would be this.  Duncan is a father figure that she decides to seduce and he lets her.

Do not EVER read "The Tale of Genji."



jenfullmoon

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Reply #34 on: July 12, 2011, 04:06:05 PM
Although, I am a little depressed that Duncan basically destroys magic for a living. Making the world more mundane one creature at a time. And it's not even like he's doing something cool, like dragonslaying or mime-crushing. No, he's killing frigging unicorns! On the other hand, the unicorns were pretty bad-ass, which is something I wasn't expecting and found to be a refreshing change. No little pink Anime characters dying needlessly here, no sir.

Might I recommend Diana Peterfreund's books "Rampant" and "Ascendant?" There's virgins and unicorn killing in those books, but that's because most unicorns go berserk and homicidal around human beings... Okay, there's more to it than that, but if you liked this story, you might enjoy those books too.



ElectricPaladin

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Reply #35 on: July 12, 2011, 08:20:16 PM
Oh.

My.

Mother.

Fucking.

God.

This was possibly the hottest story I have ever heard. My wife came home from work right after I finished listening to it and we had sex up against a dead unicorn immediately. The pacing was perfect, the buildup from grimy beginning to incredibly steamy conclusion so exquisitely timed that I almost didn't notice what was happening until it happened. And then it happened! And then we had sex on a dead unicorn.

I'd like to note here that my college friends commonly referred to virgins as "unicorn bait." At one point a friend - happy to have lost her virginity - ran through the halls of a nearby shopping mall screaming "no more unicorn bait!" over and over again.

I had some odd friends.

I am not immune to the two main critiques I read of this story - that Duncan is a magic killer and that the age difference was kind of creepy - but those factors did not bother me as I read the story.

Firstly, there's a part of me that is not very pro-magic. I mean, magic is all well and good, but about half of me thinks that unless magic has explicit value for people, it isn't intrinsically any more valuable than anything else in the world. I mean, unicorns are all well and good, but it's a dark Dark Age, and a dude's got to eat. Of course, there's a part of me that does value magic as special and wonderful and beautiful. Duncan shot that part of me in the throat in the first scene and it didn't come out of hiding until after the story was over - good job, Vaughn.

As to the second critique, I wasn't bothered by the age difference because it wasn't much of a factor. Duncan was much older, but he wasn't creepily interested in her innocence and vulnerability - in fact, he wasn't very hot for her until she took control of her sexuality and started enjoying it - and he was good to her, giving her a fair share of the money they made together. That made him a decent guy in my book, and the age difference was just another thing.

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Dave

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Reply #36 on: July 12, 2011, 10:48:22 PM
When you hype the shock so much before the story even begins, I expect to be paid off with some actual shock, not with an obvious ending that was telegraphed from the first paragraph. I know you guys love the stories, and that's great, but maybe ease back on the hyperbole a bit =P

I liked this story just fine. I'm not sure what's offensive about it- other than the throwaway "this is the only power a girl like me can ever have" line that- oh, wait, yeah, that's pretty freakin' offensive right there. And adds nothing to the story, and would not be missed if it were excised.

Other than that the characters behaved more or less as I'd expect characters in such a setting to behave. The angry unicorn was pretty cool. And Eleanor reminded of many of my childhood fantasies, from before I got all jaded =\

*edit*
SHUN THE NONBELIEVER! SHUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNUH.

(sorry, couldn't resist)
*/edit*
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 11:00:58 PM by Dave »

-Dave (aka Nev the Deranged)


Biscuit

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Reply #37 on: July 12, 2011, 10:51:11 PM
Thanks for Scattercat for putting into more literary type words my thoughts about this story. You even included words that were flinging around in my head: "created for the Male Gaze" and "reinforcing patriarchal rites towards female sexuality".

Someone mentioned how "it can't be male gaze-y/reinforcing male gaze tropes because a woman wrote it". Hey, maybe Vaughan had a specific market in mind when she wrote this story, and wanted to write a sexytimes fantasy for men. Women can and do write like that, whether consciously or unconsciously. Women are just as much a construct of a patriarchal system too (I am not arguing for or against Vaughan's politics, I don't know what they are or her motivation for this story).

What I find sad about the commentary here is that we were given a hefty warning about how it could be quite controversial, and a lot of people turned around and said "maybe I'm jaded/I don't see it/it's not that bad". It means our society has made us immune to using women's sexuality in such a way. It's "ok" because its sexytimes as proscribed by a patriarchal society.

People also comment that Elenor became "empowered" by her sexuality, and it made me wonder how this occured? Learning about sexuality does not occur in a vacuum, and Elenor lived in a pretty sheltered vacuum for her sexual formative years. Like someone else said, once she grows up a bit more and learns a bit more about the world/sexuality there will be recriminations and regrets. Even those of us who haven't been whores to unicorn hunters feel like this :)

But Scattercat said it all way better than me. :) I will say it was a well written story, the action flowed beautifully, but my feminist sensibilities felt like it was a story that played on some harmful tropes - harmful to both men and women (women being passive sexual objects; men being unicorns with big horns at the mercy of their libido)


Spindaddy

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Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 02:42:37 AM
This was possibly the hottest story I have ever heard. My wife came home from work right after I finished listening to it and we had sex up against a dead unicorn immediately. The pacing was perfect, the buildup from grimy beginning to incredibly steamy conclusion so exquisitely timed that I almost didn't notice what was happening until it happened. And then it happened! And then we had sex on a dead unicorn.

Dude, you made me laugh so loud my wife yelled at me.

PS When you are having sex up against a dead unicorn, do you leave the body intact? Does it keep for a few days? I noticed if we chop the head, we just end up in a pile of glitter.

I'm not evil. I'm corporate.


CAKe

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Reply #39 on: July 16, 2011, 03:08:15 AM
Enjoyed (the mildly-graphic nature of) this story very much. The core moral issue that I felt ultimately pressed to face was: power. Both Duncan and partner eventually were doing what they did primarily for the rush they felt just before and after (I don't think during, they had to concentrate on other things most of the time) their acts of murder.

Killing for sport = not good. Doing something b/c you can = not good. Both of these not necessarily bad, but in this case I would say were. However, in the end it was the bait that slew the beast. Is this not greater power still? Rising above her station? Fourth Wave (j/k... I don't even know what that is/if it is)?

Duncan also notes, by implication, the ultimate power women have over man = the possibility of the poke. Which can of course be used to myriad advantages (while noting that in the society of the story men could probably have what they wanted in this regard... though i would like to point out that the 'way' in which it is had is obviously important for any man not a rapist... well... ahem...).

The story certainly could have offended people at various points, however they don't seem to be posting. I'm offended less frequently than I get a cold.

I felt the final sexual violent scene was (mildly) shocking-->the unicorn had an erect penis, I'm not talking about the thing attached to its head where the mouth for chewing and drinking is. Say it with me class "The unicorn..

I wonder what would have happened if Duncan's bow broke, and then his foot got caught in a tree root or something... please let me know if anyone writes the fan-fiction for this scene with such an ending (matching of course the voice and tone of the story).

How do you gentlemen find these unicorns to have sex up against... it is clear neither you nor your partners are virginal... I wonder if I might... nah...

A 'nullacorn', though I'm LOL at the little one's observation, could also be an empty or otherwise infertile 'acorn'. So I will seek to find a suitable secondary label, that ambiguity might be avoided if necessary, for clarification only.



Spindaddy

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Reply #40 on: July 17, 2011, 02:00:11 AM

How do you gentlemen find these unicorns to have sex up against... it is clear neither you nor your partners are virginal... I wonder if I might... nah...


I tend to go through a lot of virgins.... ;)

I'm not so heartless as Duncan. I set up a free wireless hotspot next to a lake and a beautiful patch of woods. I put in a vending machine that dispenses Doritos, cheese curls, mountain dew and a few other highly caffeinated drinks. This draws in a ton of virginal college gamers. They can't resist the free food and caffeine. With the scent of so many virgins in one place, the unicorns can't help but drop by....

I'm not evil. I'm corporate.


iamafish

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Reply #41 on: July 17, 2011, 11:40:21 AM
you, sir, are a horrible person... high five!


CAKe

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Reply #42 on: July 18, 2011, 08:59:29 PM
Ah... if I didn't think feeding people those 'foods' was unethical...



Spindaddy

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Reply #43 on: July 19, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
you, sir, are a horrible person... high five!
*high-five*

I come by it naturally.

Ah... if I didn't think feeding people those 'foods' was unethical...

Um, I'm killing unicorns to have sex on their carcass. I don't really bother with those 'ethics' thingies. To me, morals are mushrooms I'm frying up with my chimera burgers. :D

I'm not evil. I'm corporate.


iamafish

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Reply #44 on: July 19, 2011, 12:57:04 PM
who are you having sex with on the carcass? the dorito'd up college gamer virgins?

ew


cbjames

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Reply #45 on: July 20, 2011, 01:17:47 PM
There are two very good novels about a female unicorn with a virginal human male protagonist by Steven Boyett: Ariel and Elegy Beach.   



Void Munashii

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Reply #46 on: July 20, 2011, 02:55:17 PM
  Like other people, I was left waiting for the offensive bit all the way up until the music started playing. I didn't even play this one for my wife as I expected there to be horn-rape, or necrophilia, or something that I would find incredibly distasteful since the type of warning on the front-end of this story has previously been reserved for stories about 9/11, but in the end I found it to just be a decent story set in a world with different moral standards than our own.

  Also having sex on the corpse of a dead magical horse is a bit oogy.

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Rough Week

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Reply #47 on: July 21, 2011, 02:35:30 PM
It sounds like the English majors have had their poke at the story, and made some interesting points. As for me, I don't know English, but I know what I like. ;)

I liked this story because the characters are compelling. They're not stereotypes, they're not just metaphors; to me they feel like real people, with real concerns, real emotions, and a real story. It's true Duncan buys Eleanor to use as bait, and uses her to kill unicorns... but he takes care of her, watches out for her, seems to respect her in a way, and it feels sincere when he says she's earned her freedom. Is he a bad man who's had a change of heart? Is he a good man with a terrible past, or an obsessive agenda? It's hard to say, but we see his turmoil, some of his hopes and doubts, and he feels very real as he grows through this story.

Eleanor gets less screen time than Duncan, but she feels real too. She's traumatized by her past, but she comes to accept her fate, pick up some skills, and realize that she has a hand in writing her future. If the story had been told from more of a third-person perspective, she could easily be the main character. What awaits her after this narrative - is a happy ending possible, with or without Duncan? I can't say, but she certainly has hopes and dreams, and we want to see how she goes about working towards them.

I also wanted to say that the narration for this episode was incredible! I can't believe more people didn't mention this. A flat reading could have made this story unpalatable given its content, but John Trevillian gave the characters life, breath, emotion, and depth. I could hear Duncan's outward callousness, but inward doubts and fears. I could hear his panic and feel his heart pound when he was desperate to see if Eleanor was wounded. A good narrator helps the story flow and helps you suspend disbelief so you can identify with the characters. A great one makes them come alive and makes them feel real!



NomadicScribe

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Reply #48 on: July 21, 2011, 02:43:31 PM
Personally, I was waiting for the Uberunicorn to say, "I'm the lasht and greatesht of my kind. Inshtead of killin' meh, we ought t' team up, for profit." And then they'd go from village to village, tricking the townspeople into paying Duncan for slaying the wild, rabid unicorn.



Kanasta

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Reply #49 on: July 21, 2011, 05:14:16 PM
I wasn't offended, but then I had just read some fanfic about Severus Snape having an orgy with the Teletubbies.