Author Topic: PC143: Hurt Me  (Read 31199 times)

Peter Tupper

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Reply #50 on: February 17, 2011, 09:04:02 PM
I liked this spin on the classic Gothic ghost story, and the idea that we the living can haunt ghosts in return.

However, if the protagonist ever has a daughter, or even female friends over, things might get a little uncomfortable.



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Reply #51 on: February 19, 2011, 07:05:30 PM
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?

I mean, nobody actually thinks this was a happy ending, right?

I liked how the story kept me guessing for a long while. Usually I figure out the gimmick in this sort of tale pretty early on. Good stuff, but, like I said, the terror is just beginning here.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 07:07:11 PM by Dave »

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Reply #52 on: February 19, 2011, 08:58:16 PM
I think that everything regarding the story itself has already been said, save that I really enjoyed the neighbours (I couldn't help thinking of them as British, for some reason, maybe it was the tea and cocoa).  I sort of kept expecting them to turn out to be evil or in league with the ghost and was quite glad when they weren't.

Also, I loved Elizabeth Green Mussleman's narration of the story.  I thought that she got the different voices and emotions just about perfect.

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eytanz

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Reply #53 on: February 19, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?

Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.



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Reply #54 on: February 20, 2011, 01:09:56 AM

I mean, nobody actually thinks this was a happy ending, right?


I kinda do, actually. If by "happy" meaning it suggests to me the protagonist will live out the rest of her days relatively contentedly, alabeit a free murderess. It was her telling the ghost "see? You have no power over me anymore. Sod off." and going back to her life and her much healthier relationship.



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Reply #55 on: February 22, 2011, 05:47:56 PM
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?

Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.

One or more of the following (and possibly some others):

1. Ghost possesses boyfriend and cycle begins anew.  This is where I thought the story was going itself, so the thought was still in my mind at the end and the story did not convince me that it is impossible.

2.  Cory's relationships get worse and worse as she plays out her exhibitionist revenge fantasy with her ghosty nemesis.

3.  Cory eventually goes insane.  Just because the ghost may not be able to physically harm her doesn't mean it can't affect her.




eytanz

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Reply #56 on: February 22, 2011, 06:59:31 PM
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?

Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.

One or more of the following (and possibly some others):

1. Ghost possesses boyfriend and cycle begins anew.  This is where I thought the story was going itself, so the thought was still in my mind at the end and the story did not convince me that it is impossible.

The story definitely doesn't rule it out, in that same way that, say, Star Wars doesn't rule out Han Solo dying from a peanut allergy two minutes after the end of Revenge of the Jedi, but there's no indication that the ghost can possess anyone, so I wouldn't say it's supported by the story either.

Quote
2.  Cory's relationships get worse and worse as she plays out her exhibitionist revenge fantasy with her ghosty nemesis.

Possible, but this one goes directly against Cory's actions and words in the story. Especially since her revenge fantasy is "I'm going to have a good relationship where you can see it". It's possible that she's not as self aware as she thinks, but I don't think the story gives us any overt reason to question its narrative to this degree.

Quote
3.  Cory eventually goes insane.  Just because the ghost may not be able to physically harm her doesn't mean it can't affect her.

This is the most likely of the three, in my opinion. It goes against my own reading, but unlike the other two, it doesn't rely on introducing a new ghostly power or mistrusting everything Cory says, it only relies on the idea that Cory overestimates her ability to control the situation. Which I do think is consistent with the story, and supported by at least some of it (like the conversation with her mother).

However, I don't think the story actually suggests any follow-up of this nature. I think it compatible with one, but it still needs to be supplied by the reader. Which makes me still resistant to calling it a "just the prelude" to anything.

Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?" Giving the story the holywood horror sequel treatment ("you thought it was all ok, but...") just seems like a very superficial approach.


[/quote]



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Reply #57 on: February 22, 2011, 07:11:00 PM
Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?"

I agree that this is by far the more interesting question. What's your answer?

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eytanz

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Reply #58 on: February 22, 2011, 07:28:58 PM
Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?"

I agree that this is by far the more interesting question. What's your answer?

I don't really have one - while listening to the story, I was very much worried about Cory and then at the end massively relieved once I understood what was going on. Later, I realized I was suckered into a revenge fantasy by a murderess. But then again, we don't know what happened when she killed him - was it premeditated? an accident? neither? - and the ghost was very clearly not just passive but still engaged in behaviour that deserved some sort of punishment. And Cory was, perhaps, in a unique position to deliver it.

So yeah, I'm not sure. Part of the reason I find that question interesting is because I don't know how to answer it.



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Reply #59 on: February 23, 2011, 01:38:10 AM
...But then again, we don't know what happened when she killed him - was it premeditated? an accident? neither?...

I think we do, or at least my recollection of the story says so. I seem to recall that when the ghost was standing the the kitchen doorway there was some kind of awful chest/head wound. Couple that with Cory's possession of a shotgun, which she kept under her bed, and I think we can say it was, on some level, premeditated. (a) Possession of a shotgun in this situation implies the thought of using it; (b) It was probably kept in the same place when she lived there before; (c) a shotgun is not a self-defense weapon i.e. something you pick up, like a kitchen knife, in an extremity of terror. If it was under the bed she'd have to deliberately go get it. It's possible she was chased in there by her husband and she reached under the bed to get it, but less likely.


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Reply #60 on: February 23, 2011, 02:45:02 PM
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?

Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.

One or more of the following (and possibly some others):

1. Ghost possesses boyfriend and cycle begins anew.  This is where I thought the story was going itself, so the thought was still in my mind at the end and the story did not convince me that it is impossible.

The story definitely doesn't rule it out, in that same way that, say, Star Wars doesn't rule out Han Solo dying from a peanut allergy two minutes after the end of Revenge of the Jedi, but there's no indication that the ghost can possess anyone, so I wouldn't say it's supported by the story either.

Quote
2.  Cory's relationships get worse and worse as she plays out her exhibitionist revenge fantasy with her ghosty nemesis.

Possible, but this one goes directly against Cory's actions and words in the story. Especially since her revenge fantasy is "I'm going to have a good relationship where you can see it". It's possible that she's not as self aware as she thinks, but I don't think the story gives us any overt reason to question its narrative to this degree.

Quote
3.  Cory eventually goes insane.  Just because the ghost may not be able to physically harm her doesn't mean it can't affect her.

This is the most likely of the three, in my opinion. It goes against my own reading, but unlike the other two, it doesn't rely on introducing a new ghostly power or mistrusting everything Cory says, it only relies on the idea that Cory overestimates her ability to control the situation. Which I do think is consistent with the story, and supported by at least some of it (like the conversation with her mother).

However, I don't think the story actually suggests any follow-up of this nature. I think it compatible with one, but it still needs to be supplied by the reader. Which makes me still resistant to calling it a "just the prelude" to anything.

Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?" Giving the story the holywood horror sequel treatment ("you thought it was all ok, but...") just seems like a very superficial approach.
[/quote]

It's not that it should be given the Hollywood horror sequel treatment, but you said you find it hard to see it as a prelude to anything, and these were the things that crossed my mind while listening that would happen during the story itself.  They didn't end up happening in story but they still seem like pretty likely next events to me.  You referred to the Hollywood horror sequel as "you thought it was all ok, but...", but I don't think that it is all okay at the end.  Far from it.

1.  He has never possessed anyone before, but he has never had his murderer living in his house before.  If anything could drive him to a frenzy of previously unseen power, that would be it.  I'm not saying that it's likely, necessarily, only that I don't believe that past residents' experience is necessarily indicative of how powerful he will be now with her intentionally goading him.

2.  Yup, it goes against her actions and words because it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.  Not that she's lying to me, but that she's lying to herself about her motivations.  Do you really  think that she just wants to have a good relationship where the ghost can see it?  When said in that vague manner it doesn't sound so sinister, except that she's inviting her boyfriend to live in her house where she knows that their every act will be an exhibition for the ghost and she hasn't told him.  She's going to get pleasure from doing their everyday actions, including sex, in front of her dead boyfriend without her living boyfriend's consent or knowledge.  Whether he deserves it or not, her motivations here are very questionable to me.  I do not see this relationship lasting, at least not in any healthy manner.  Or any relationship when she is still living in this house.




eytanz

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Reply #61 on: February 23, 2011, 02:55:10 PM
it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.

Um, you can say a lot of things about this story, but one thing that can be said is surely incontroversial is that she's not a narrator of any type.



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Reply #62 on: February 23, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
I was ready to hate this story, because I don't generally like stories that are announced as containing graphic violence or sexual assault.

Surprisingly, I really enjoyed it. Because what I DO really love is a juicy REVENGE story. :)

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Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #63 on: February 23, 2011, 06:06:33 PM
Surprisingly, I really enjoyed it. Because what I DO really love is a juicy REVENGE story. :)

Yes, it's right there in your avatar's eyes.  ;)

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Reply #64 on: February 23, 2011, 06:34:05 PM
...But then again, we don't know what happened when she killed him - was it premeditated? an accident? neither?...

I think we do, or at least my recollection of the story says so. I seem to recall that when the ghost was standing the the kitchen doorway there was some kind of awful chest/head wound. Couple that with Cory's possession of a shotgun, which she kept under her bed, and I think we can say it was, on some level, premeditated. (a) Possession of a shotgun in this situation implies the thought of using it; (b) It was probably kept in the same place when she lived there before; (c) a shotgun is not a self-defense weapon i.e. something you pick up, like a kitchen knife, in an extremity of terror. If it was under the bed she'd have to deliberately go get it. It's possible she was chased in there by her husband and she reached under the bed to get it, but less likely.

Kibitzer, I think Cory has the shotgun in the present, but I don't believe there's any indication that she was the owner in the past. It is clear her husband (Nash) was shot, but we don't know the circumstances.

However, Nash is a guy who threatened to cut off someone's cock for interferring in his relationship, so while I think it's entirely plausible that Cory's act was premeditated, I think it just as plausible that it was an act of self-defense - that the gun in question was Nash's, and that she defended herself with it when he was beating her.


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Reply #65 on: February 23, 2011, 06:36:54 PM
it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.

Um, you can say a lot of things about this story, but one thing that can be said is surely incontroversial is that she's not a narrator of any type.

I suppose "narrator" wasn't the right word.  How about "unreliable protagonist".  Despite the story being in 3rd person, the narrative is still flowing through her perceptions, and so can still be altered by her perceptions, thus making the narrative potentially unreliable.  I still consider my point valid.



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Reply #66 on: March 01, 2011, 06:24:26 PM
I don't think I liked anyone in this story, with the possible exception of Cory's boyfriend.  And maybe I just pity the poor bastard.

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Dave

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Reply #67 on: March 10, 2011, 02:11:49 AM
"2.  Yup, it goes against her actions and words because it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.  Not that she's lying to me, but that she's lying to herself about her motivations.  Do you really  think that she just wants to have a good relationship where the ghost can see it?  When said in that vague manner it doesn't sound so sinister, except that she's inviting her boyfriend to live in her house where she knows that their every act will be an exhibition for the ghost and she hasn't told him.  She's going to get pleasure from doing their everyday actions, including sex, in front of her dead boyfriend without her living boyfriend's consent or knowledge.  Whether he deserves it or not, her motivations here are very questionable to me.  I do not see this relationship lasting, at least not in any healthy manner.  Or any relationship when she is still living in this house."

Thanks, Unblinking, for hitting the nail on the head for me.

I don't feel sorry for Cory no matter how things end up, but I definitely feel sorry for her new beau, because the full weight of the horror is poised to descend on his head; whether it will be natural or supernatural doesn't really matter in the end.

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Reply #68 on: March 10, 2011, 02:57:24 AM
My reaction of surprise and relief at the ending is happily common, I see. Uncommonly this story stirred in me all kind if thoughts a out how events in life can break us so deeply that in reshaping ourselves - even into something wonderful- the pieces we are left to work with lead us to create a life thy is very different than the one we could have had if we had never been broken in the first place. A la fractured marble. Ok. Philosophic pointlessness aside..... One word comes to mind for me as a descriptor for this story:
Satisfaction.

Not mine, mind you, the protag's.

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LaShawn

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Reply #69 on: March 14, 2011, 04:03:28 PM
Wow. This is one of those rare stories when I listened, got to the end, rewound, and listened to it all over again.

I thought the way the story withheld information was brilliant. It actually was all there if you knew where to look. The best was when she's talking to her mother and she kept ragging about the house. Because we don't know the history yet, we think she's just talking about moving out on her own. But the author doesn't infodump or use another character to completely lay out the past. The mother already *knows* the past of the house. She doesn't need to spell it out to her daughter.

I found the confrontation powerful. confronting her past abuser took guts. At the same time, the ending did make me feel a little queasy. She is getting away with murder--was it justified? I don't know.Would the story be stronger if we knew that she was the one who killed the man.

There are no easy answers with this story. And I love that.
Edit: Ooo, and the ending quote is Neil Gaiman! AWESOMESAUCE!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 04:24:06 PM by LaShawn »

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Zuishness

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Reply #70 on: April 03, 2011, 03:45:28 PM
I like this one.
I think she's been damaged and she's dragging her innocent new boyfriend into a world of bitterness, hatred and spite.
A nice, horrific ending.



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Reply #71 on: November 03, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
I think we're missing the real story here. What did PodCastle give in trade to PseudoPod for this story? Didn't they used to have a basket of kittens?

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”


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Reply #72 on: November 03, 2011, 08:36:48 PM
Well, yeah. But we sacrificed those at the end of October!  :D