Pet Peeves

[ClintMemo]

This is not a Sci-fi pet peeve, but a language pet-peeve.
It drives me batty when I hear people say "I could care less."   One, because I know they mean "I COULDN'T care less," and two, because I remember when people used to say it correctly.

[SFEley]

It drives me batty when I hear people say "I could care less."   One, because I know they mean "I COULDN'T care less," and two, because I remember when people used to say it correctly.

Perhaps they mean to acknowledge that they'd be capable of more apathy, but just don't want to bother?  >8->

[FNH]

This is not a Sci-fi pet peeve, but a language pet-peeve.
It drives me batty when I hear people say "I could care less."   One, because I know they mean "I COULDN'T care less," and two, because I remember when people used to say it correctly.

One that's always bugged me if when people say...

"You cant have you cake and eat it."

Yes, Yes you can you dim wit!  You cant EAT your cake and KEEP it!

Grrrrrrrr

[Heradel]

One that's always bugged me if when people say...
"You cant have you cake and eat it."
Yes, Yes you can you dim wit!  You cant EAT your cake and KEEP it!
Grrrrrrrr

Well, technically you could (and do for a very small amount), but I don't think you'd want the majority of it.

[ClintMemo]

This is not a Sci-fi pet peeve, but a language pet-peeve.
It drives me batty when I hear people say "I could care less."   One, because I know they mean "I COULDN'T care less," and two, because I remember when people used to say it correctly.

One that's always bugged me if when people say...

"You cant have you cake and eat it."

Yes, Yes you can you dim wit!  You cant EAT your cake and KEEP it!

Grrrrrrrr

And if I can't eat the cake, why would I want it in the first place?

[SFEley]

And if I can't eat the cake, why would I want it in the first place?

To keep it out of the hands of terrorists.

[wakela]

"You cant have you cake and eat it."

For the longest time I couldn't make any sense of this phrase.  I think I had to have someone explain it to me. 

For some reason it reminds me of the definition you always hear of the word "pun."  It's a play on words.  Great.  What the hell does that mean?

To keep it out of the hands of terrorists.

But then the terrorists have already won! 
Or maybe the cakes win...
Or we win because we get to chose to either have keep or eat the cakes.  I don't know, but I guess I can't bring one on a plane. 

[Thaurismunths]

This is not a Sci-fi pet peeve, but a language pet-peeve.
It drives me batty when I hear people say "I could care less."   One, because I know they mean "I COULDN'T care less," and two, because I remember when people used to say it correctly.

One that's always bugged me if when people say...

"You cant have you cake and eat it."

Yes, Yes you can you dim wit!  You cant EAT your cake and KEEP it!

Grrrrrrrr

Well, if you eat your cake, then it's gone, so you won't have it any more.
That would make "You can't have your cake, and eat it too." correct.
But for some historical context I turn to:

Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings by Gregory Y. Titelman:
"You can't have your cake and eat it too -- One can't use something up and still have it to enjoy. This proverb was recorded in the book of proverbs by John Heywood in 1546, and is first attested in the United States in the 1742 'Colonial Records of Georgia' in 'Original Papers, 1735-1752.' The adage is found in varying forms: You can't eat your cake and have it too. You can't have everything and eat it too; Eat your cake and have the crumbs in bed with you, etc. ..."

So, even though it bugs you, "and eat it too" is a proper quotation with the same meaning as your preferred phrasing.

[wakela]

French.

I studied Spanish in high school, so when an author throws in a little expression in French I don't know what it means or even how to pronounce it.  It might as well be ASCII garbage.  The author is including an expression that he knows for sure many of his readers will not understand.  It just seems rude to me.

Important annoying use of foreign languages update! 
I just started the Hugo nominated novel, Eifelheim by Michael F. Flynn.  So far I've been hit with French, German, Latin, and I think one or two more languages that I don't know.  Whole sentences with no explanations.  OK, Mr. Flynn and his characters, we get it.  You guys are smart and you know languages.   Of course it makes sense that the scientists wouldn't exchange witty banter in Japanese, Korean, or Chinese because those countries are so unimportant in the scientific community.   Not nearly as important as those Latin speakers.

Other than that, though, the book is really interesting so far. 

[davedoty]

This is not just SF, but I'm tired for being told that New York City is the center of the universe. 

The weird thing is that this kind of thing only started bothering me after I moved to New York.

I think the two things may actually be linked.  I think the reason it doesn't bother me, and many other people, is that to us, New York is a fictional place, divorced from the real city.  Like Paris, London, (ancient) Rome, and maybe a couple of other places, the myth of the city has become a fictional backdrop we're very comfortable with.  The details are what make this fictional place feel real to us.

Living in New York may have made it harder for you to separate the fictional city from the real.  On those rare occassions that Oklahoma or Texas landmarks I know personally show up in films, it jerks me out of the movie.  You may be experiencing something similar.

[wakela]

I think the reason it doesn't bother me, and many other people, is that to us, New York is a fictional place, divorced from the real city.  Like Paris, London, (ancient) Rome, and maybe a couple of other places, the myth of the city has become a fictional backdrop we're very comfortable with.

That's an interesting point.  I hadn't thought of it.  I don't mind it when they get details wrong.  But maybe now that New York City is no longer a mythical place for me, I end up wondering what the big deal is.   I do think NYC is a fantastic place, but there are other places.

[Kaa]

I have to answer before I read all the others because I'm afraid I'll forget mine.

1. If it takes you several pages to describe a door--or a plant, or a candle flame, or whatever--chances are I won't make it past that unless the story is otherwise stellar (Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose (a cathedral door), all of Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children books, but most especially Plains of Passage (every freaking plant Ayla sees).

2. Characters get written into a corner so that the only way out is to use deus ex machina (L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth springs to mind).

****3. "But little did Alicia know it was to be her final French 101 class forever!"  That says to me "HEY! YOU'RE READING! A STORY! YOO-HOO! DID YOU FORGET!? HOW 'BOUT A LITTLE REMINDER!? THIS IS THE OMNISCIENT AUTHOR SPEAKING!" Stop it.  Just...stop it.

4. Gratuitous sex. (Dear mother of GOD, John Varley's Titan, Demon, and Wizard.)

5. I don't know how to describe it, but I'll name the chief example I can think of: Mitichlorians.  Egad.  Foul. (Pseudoscientific "explanation" for a perfectly good mystical aspect of the story that doesn't need any explanation.)

That being said, I didn't actually stop reading any of the above (or watching for #5).  The only books I've ever put down and never finished are just boring. They don't hold my interest.  I typically read three or four at a time, and if one of them is really way more interesting than the others, I'll finish it first.  If I've had one sitting there with a bookmark in it for, say, more than a month, chances are it's just not interesting enough to hold my interest.

Examples: Fire Time by Poul Anderson. The Silmarillion by...oh, you know.  Evolution by Stephen Baxter. Moonseed by Stephen Baxter...

[Listener]

I have to answer before I read all the others because I'm afraid I'll forget mine.

1. If it takes you several pages to describe a door--or a plant, or a candle flame, or whatever--chances are I won't make it past that unless the story is otherwise stellar (Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose (a cathedral door), all of Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children books, but most especially Plains of Passage (every freaking plant Ayla sees).

My dad complains that Tom Clancy does this.  It killed me to read "The Name of the Rose"... I kept hoping it would get better, and it never did.

2. Characters get written into a corner so that the only way out is to use deus ex machina (L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth springs to mind).

I think I'm guilty of this in a couple of stories.  Non-SF though.

****3. "But little did Alicia know it was to be her final French 101 class forever!"  That says to me "HEY! YOU'RE READING! A STORY! YOO-HOO! DID YOU FORGET!? HOW 'BOUT A LITTLE REMINDER!? THIS IS THE OMNISCIENT AUTHOR SPEAKING!" Stop it.  Just...stop it.

What do you think about this:  I wrote an adult fic story (not erotica, but about sex) where I incorporated IMs, phone calls, chat logs, and journal entries.  One journal entry I preceded with:

When everything shook out later, Lynn said that if she'd just shown this to Adam, none of this would ever have happened.

(Paraphrased.)  See, I don't say WHAT happened, just that something COULD happen.

"There must have been a moment, at the beginning, when we could have said no. But we missed it. Now it's too late." -Tom Stoppard

4. Gratuitous sex. (Dear mother of GOD, John Varley's Titan, Demon, and Wizard.)

...and everything Laurell Hamilton has written after "Narcissus in Chains".

[Kaa]

What do you think about this:  I wrote an adult fic story (not erotica, but about sex) where I incorporated IMs, phone calls, chat logs, and journal entries.  One journal entry I preceded with:

When everything shook out later, Lynn said that if she'd just shown this to Adam, none of this would ever have happened.

(Paraphrased.)  See, I don't say WHAT happened, just that something COULD happen.

"There must have been a moment, at the beginning, when we could have said no. But we missed it. Now it's too late." -Tom Stoppard

That's the good use of that kind of trick (IMHO), because it doesn't slap you so hard across the face.  It suggests things; it doesn't fling them to the floor in front of you, naked.

...and everything Laurell Hamilton has written after "Narcissus in Chains".

Oh yeah. I forgot her.  I started reading that series and all my friends who were already reading it warned me and said, "Unless you like vampire- and were-critter-porn, beware."  I wish I'd listened.  I actually counted in the last book of hers I read. There were over 120 pages of gratuitous sex and about 100 pages of actual, non-sex plot.

[Listener]

What do you think about this:  I wrote an adult fic story (not erotica, but about sex) where I incorporated IMs, phone calls, chat logs, and journal entries.  One journal entry I preceded with:

When everything shook out later, Lynn said that if she'd just shown this to Adam, none of this would ever have happened.

(Paraphrased.)  See, I don't say WHAT happened, just that something COULD happen.

"There must have been a moment, at the beginning, when we could have said no. But we missed it. Now it's too late." -Tom Stoppard[\quote]

That's the good use of that kind of trick, because it doesn't slap you so hard across the face.  It suggests things; it doesn't fling them to the floor in front of you, naked.

...and everything Laurell Hamilton has written after "Narcissus in Chains".

Oh yeah. I forgot her.  I started reading that series and all my friends who were already reading it warned me and said, "Unless you like vampire- and were-critter-porn, beware."  I wish I'd listened.  I actually counted in the last book of hers I read. There were over 120 pages of gratuitous sex and about 100 pages of actual, non-sex plot.

Yeah, it sucks because, except for "The Laughing Corpse", they were ALL very good up through "Blue Moon".  Then, after the Edward book, she started trying to cram too much into each book and you end up with like 50 pages at the end of "let's kill the monster of this book before I forget".

*sigh*

And I'll keep reading in the hopes that she turns it around.

[Mfitz]

4. Gratuitous sex. (Dear mother of GOD, John Varley's Titan, Demon, and Wizard.)

...and everything Laurell Hamilton has written after "Narcissus in Chains".

Amen!

[raygunray]

About all my pet peeves about Fantasy can be summed up by reading Eragon (reluctant hero from modest means, a just king overthrown by a tyrant, swordplay, dragons, demonic wizard).  People marvel that it was written by a teenager.  I didn't. I've read better stories by seventeen year old's but their only handicap was that mummy and daddy wasn't in publishing.  I guess Palolini had a choice between getting his amateur drek published or a new Volvo as a graduation present.

My other pet peeve is one I'm actually struggling with in my amateurish dabblings in SF.  In every dystopia story, there is always and old, wizened character which I call "Mr. 'splains-it-all". He tells the hero how the evil rulers or the authoritarian world came to be and how better the world was before.  Some writers get around this with a Prologue or a narrative device like using a passage out of an old book or historical annal.

Also, anything vaguely King Authorian or derivative of Tolkein.  Elves should make cookies and shoes and stay out of warring. 
 

[FNH]

About all my pet peeves about Fantasy can be summed up by reading Eragon

Me too.  Why?  Because when they get round to making a Dragon Riders of Pern film everyone will think its an Eragon rip off.

While I'm moaning here's a quote from todays BBC news

Targets of the so-called denial-of-service attacks have also included the Estonian

I hate that phrase "so-called", especially here.  Its not a so-called denial-of-service attack, it IS a denial-of-service attack.  Bafoons!

[Kaa]

I hate that phrase "so-called", especially here.  Its not a so-called denial-of-service attack, it IS a denial-of-service attack.  Bafoons!

Well, now, while we're on that type of pet peeve, I "may" become "violent" the "next" time I see "scare-quotes" used "inappropriately."  I'm not at all saying you did, it just brought it to mind. Yours was a proper use.

A sign I saw recently at a service station announced--proudly, I might add:

Come See "Our" "NEW" Prices!

or something like that.  (Talking about cigarettes or some such nonsense.)  I wanted so badly to go in there and ask, "Why are you hinting that the prices are neither new nor your own?"  But, they would have just looked at me in confusion.

Have I mentioned I'm a bit of a grammar-Nazi?

[Anarkey]

Well, now, while we're on that type of pet peeve, I "may" become "violent" the "next" time I see "scare-quotes" used "inappropriately."  I'm not at all saying you did, it just brought it to mind. Yours was a proper use.

A sign I saw recently at a service station announced--proudly, I might add:

Come See "Our" "NEW" Prices!

or something like that.  (Talking about cigarettes or some such nonsense.) 

Right there with you.  I recently saw one of those "please do not do x" signs (I forget the value of x, atm) and at the bottom it said: "Thank you".

I'm thinking, what, you're not really thankful?  You're just pretending?  You're giving me a facsimile of thanks?  You're trying to piss me off?  Make my brain hurt?  What?!

[Listener]

About all my pet peeves about Fantasy can be summed up by reading Eragon (reluctant hero from modest means, a just king overthrown by a tyrant, swordplay, dragons, demonic wizard).  People marvel that it was written by a teenager.  I didn't. I've read better stories by seventeen year old's but their only handicap was that mummy and daddy wasn't in publishing.  I guess Palolini had a choice between getting his amateur drek published or a new Volvo as a graduation present.

As someone who's sort of self-published a book -- it really wasn't very good, so I won't be sharing the link, sorry, like, I mean, REALLY bad and in need of serious revisions -- it bugged the hell out of me when I heard this kid got Eragon published at his age.

I like Sean McMullen's fantasy because, while there are a few characters in the above mold, many of them come from diverse backgrounds -- monasteries, sorcery groups, politics, royalty, et al.

I also dislike -- in Fantasy, anyway -- these two conventions that suffuse Robert Newcomb books:

* When the author sits down with the first draft and a thesaurus and proceeds to replace every instance of "said" (Rowling has done this), overuses adverbs (the last two Dune books were great about having almost no adverbs along with said), and tries to find the most obscure word possible.

* A "factual" writing style -- "due to the fact that" is one of the worst phrases to use in fiction, I think.  Even in the sex scenes -- many of them unnecessary, IMO, and I'm a reader/writer who enjoys sex scenes in fiction -- Newcomb has a problem with being overly factual.

Also, even though I'm doing this in my own fantasy novel, I sometimes feel that the "journey" is an overused cliche.  It's like, okay, here's your hero, now go on a long quest, collect plot coupons, and then kill the bad guy at the end.  I think a lot of fantasy authors use the journey as a way to fill space.

That leads me to my final pet peeve about fantasy:  NOT EVERY BOOK NEEDS TO BE A DOORSTOP!  And a corollary: not every book needs to be a trilogy.  Many of them can't even support the 700 pages of the first volume!

The publishers of the Star Trek novels were really bad about this up through about the middle of last year.  Diane Duane's 3rd and 4th Rihannsu books had font that was so large and line spacing that was so wide that all we were really getting was one book for the price of two.

[Planish]

Prologues annoy me.  The ones that begin hundreds or thousands of years before the plot, or that insist on dumping world exposition on you before anything happens to make the world worth knowing about.  Or even prologues that give you some random schmoe's point of view in some 'development' scene before you find out who the protagonist is.  (China Miéville does this in Perdido Street Station, which I'm reading right now and is otherwise excellent.)  I want to know, on page one, who I'm supposed to care about, and I want to see them doing something.

Equally annoying to me are those snippets from the Encyclopedia Galactica, verses by some fictional poet with far too many apostrophes in their name, and quotations from The Future's pangalactic version of Sun-Tzu, maybe a bit of prophetic scripture, all of which appear the opening of every chapter.  ::)I guess it's supposed to establish some kind of cultural background or provide short-term foreshadowing, but for the most part they are as effective as a banner advert on a web site, and I tend to skip over them.

I blame Frank Herbert for their popularity among (amongst?) authors. They were was mildly clever when he did it in Dune, but I think they're long overdue for retirement.

[Listener]

Prologues annoy me.  The ones that begin hundreds or thousands of years before the plot, or that insist on dumping world exposition on you before anything happens to make the world worth knowing about.  Or even prologues that give you some random schmoe's point of view in some 'development' scene before you find out who the protagonist is.  (China Miéville does this in Perdido Street Station, which I'm reading right now and is otherwise excellent.)  I want to know, on page one, who I'm supposed to care about, and I want to see them doing something.

Equally annoying to me are those snippets from the Encyclopedia Galactica, verses by some fictional poet with far too many apostrophes in their name, and quotations from The Future's pangalactic version of Sun-Tzu, maybe a bit of prophetic scripture, all of which appear the opening of every chapter.  ::)I guess it's supposed to establish some kind of cultural background or provide short-term foreshadowing, but for the most part they are as effective as a banner advert on a web site, and I tend to skip over them.

I rather like them, as long as they're not TOO long.  And in the "Nikolai Dante" books, they're usually fairly amusing.

But if they're too long, as in Perdido Street Station, it is a bit confusing.  I really didn't like PSS the first time I read it BECAUSE I was so confused, but thank goodness I went back!

Also, whole chapters in italics.  That drives me crazy.  Italics are really hard to read in large chunks.

And on that note, overuse of italics.  My creative writing professor said if you need italics to say it, you can probably say it better another way.  In Carolyn Clowes's ST novel "The Pandora Principle", which is a pretty good one, I feel like every fifth or sixth word is italicized.  Drives me nuts.

[Heradel]

Prologues annoy me.  The ones that begin hundreds or thousands of years before the plot, or that insist on dumping world exposition on you before anything happens to make the world worth knowing about.  Or even prologues that give you some random schmoe's point of view in some 'development' scene before you find out who the protagonist is.  (China Miéville does this in Perdido Street Station, which I'm reading right now and is otherwise excellent.)  I want to know, on page one, who I'm supposed to care about, and I want to see them doing something.

I'm guessing that a prologue about a major character that happens thousands of years before is ok then? For example, the prologue to Going Postal.

[Russell Nash]

Prologues annoy me.  The ones that begin hundreds or thousands of years before the plot, or that insist on dumping world exposition on you before anything happens to make the world worth knowing about.  Or even prologues that give you some random schmoe's point of view in some 'development' scene before you find out who the protagonist is.  (China Miéville does this in Perdido Street Station, which I'm reading right now and is otherwise excellent.)  I want to know, on page one, who I'm supposed to care about, and I want to see them doing something.

It's extra annoying when they write it to sound like some kind of archaic language.  I don't want to decipher.  I want to read.