Author Topic: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n} (Read 38998 times)

PHaring · **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:16:43 AM

Definatley liked this one. As an accountant by day, it's nice to see as SF story that works in parts of my industry in a unique way. Lots of fun!

Biscuit · **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2007, 03:51:29 AM

Quote from: robwicks on February 20, 2007, 07:14:57 PM

The story has an "old school" feel

Yes, I felt that too. I DID enjoy the story - the imagery and science was incredibly well crafted (in case I came across as a cynical bunny before). One tends to forget there's over THIRTY FIVE YEARS!!! of science fiction, Hollywood and social changes since it was written, therefore it was written in a time where a generation was was just discovering itself sexually, romantically and it's new lack of limits.

With a bit more thought, thinking "70s style", it has a touch of that "blind 50s/60s" romance attached to it. Which is fair for the time in which is was written.

Romeo and Juliet would NEVER cut it if it was "original" in 2007. People would barf all over it.

bmambo · **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2007, 04:13:09 AM

I too really liked this story. As with many good stories, it takes a bit of setup to get your head into the plot, and then, well, you are carried briskly on through to the end. No crying required in this one - just a satisfied smile at the end.

Something I felt during the "read" was the notion of hearing the n-1 and n+1 interactions from both sides of time. When we first encounter an interaction it feels hidden, unknown and unfamiliar, but during the n+1 side of the interaction it's the opposite. It reminded me that in life all things are ultimately knowable, and that one need not fear the unknown as much as we often do.

One problem I observed in the plot was Selene's amulet, which prevented her from sliding through time. We are told that it was given to her by someone in the future - but if Selene possessed it in a future moment, how could she have slid back to the present? By definition the amulet cannot be carried through time!

Oh, and finally, I vote FOR Steve's voice. I find his renderings of stories are terrific, and more so now that I have heard him, what about 100 times now? Keep up the good work, Steve!

eytanz · **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2007, 04:23:19 AM

I think Selene says the amulet needs to be touching her skin to work. So maybe she took it back in a giftwrap or something.

And I should clarify that I'm not arguing against Steve's *voice* - I think he's a great narrator, and I usually really like it when he voice acts. And I think that he did really well in conveying a certain tone - he was perfectly believable in that tone. My problem is that I think that choice of tone did not mesh well with the story. But I don't want to repeat myself too much, so I'll leave it at that.

SFEley · **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2007, 04:39:26 AM

Quote from: eytanz on February 21, 2007, 04:23:19 AM

And I should clarify that I'm not arguing against Steve's *voice* - I think he's a great narrator, and I usually really like it when he voice acts. And I think that he did really well in conveying a certain tone - he was perfectly believable in that tone. My problem is that I think that choice of tone did not mesh well with the story. But I don't want to repeat myself too much, so I'll leave it at that.

I appreciate the feedback, eytanz. For my part, I think everyone else seems to like my reading somewhat more than I liked it. >8-> Picking a voice for some stories is really hard, and in the case of this one I wasn't entirely happy with my accent. But there had to be an accent -- I think the diction in the story, the dropping of articles, was in the prose because the character was Bulgarian -- and not knowing any suitable readers or podcasters with East European heritage, I decided to just take a crack at it.

Fun story, though. We still have several more Silverberg pieces that we'll be delivering over the course of the year, all very different from each other.

Jason · **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2007, 05:58:01 AM

What can I say that hasn't been said already? I thought that it was an excellent story except for the beginning. Too much talking about the process and how he made his millions, I grasped the concept(s) quite quickly because the author explained it excellently at first, but then continued elaborating on it which got boring. Overall I'd give it 9/10! Very inventive concept and the possibility of meeting + n and - n was pretty cool

dreamingmind · **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2007, 06:50:30 AM

Quote from: SFEley on February 21, 2007, 04:39:26 AM

We still have several more Silverberg pieces that we'll be delivering over the course of the year...

That's good news in my book! I've LOVED this one and When We Went to See the End of the World. As Tony and Ciaran would say, "Thanks Bob!". And thanks Steve.

And I agree with your critique of your performance on this one. Though the accent did fade part way through and I wasn't so sorry to see it go.

Don

Thaurismunths · **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:02:47 PM

I got a kick out of this story on many levels. For one I like the character, his fraternal interactions with +n and -n, and how they didn't make waves: Each did as +n suggested, while not ruining the fun for -n.
One thing that kind of skipped for me is that although Now only has contact with +n and -n, +n would be in contact with +n+n, who would be in touch with +n+n+n, and so on. So what's stopping +n^n from relaying information from the distant future, back to the correct "Now" who can act on it?

BSWeichsel · **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:09:35 PM

I think if You're gonna do the introduction you should have some one else do the story and if your gonna do the story have some one else do the introductions.It was a little bit difficult to figure out where the story begun and where the introductions and ending started or ended.

That was really my only complaint with this story.

DKT · **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2007, 07:19:50 PM

I've got nothing but respect for this story. The Now + n, Now - n concept was a very unique take and once I got past the opening, which left me a little dazed, I was pretty into it, even though the ideas made my head hurt at points. (Which I think it a mandate for good time-travel stories.)

And it tickles me no end to hear my comment in the outro. Thanks.

FNH · **Reply #35 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:22:10 PM

Having read this thread, I seem to be the only person on the entire planet ( of course everyone on the planet does listen to Escape Pod ) who absolutely hated this story.

Too long for the pay off.
The +N/-N references became overbearing and were repeated too often.
The explanations of the time-travel-link thing went on and on.

[Engage Rant Mode]

The real problem : Love stories suck at the best of times in Sci Fi. I dont actually want this mush in my stories it's boring to me. I want action, activity, progression, not lovestruck paragraph padding. Grrrrrrr!

[Disengage Rant Mode... I said DISENGAG... Oh thats better]

Mr. Bunny · **Reply #36 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:33:39 PM

I wouldn't say I entirely hated it, but I didn't much care for it. The amulet inconsistency was definitely one. (I think she said she had to be within 12 inches of it. So how did she get it home?)

I didn't find the narrator at all sympathetic. He's a rich twit who boasts of his intelligence but couldn't come up with any of the solutions suggested above, and fails miserably without his crutch. He believes he's been given a gift by Evolution (pretty sure Steve read that with a capital E) and he uses it to be a parasite.

And the bit at the end: "Well, I could have just set up a communication schedule, but...I really miss good ole +n and -n," felt contrived and tacked on. Why didn't he use that scheme instead of dashing around the world? And if he really was so dependent on constant contact with +n and -n, why did he only communicate with them for a few minutes three days a week? And that to read out a bunch of stock picks.

One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?

Thaurismunths · **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:53:10 PM

Quote from: Mr. Bunny on February 21, 2007, 10:33:39 PM

And the bit at the end: "Well, I could have just set up a communication schedule, but...I really miss good ole +n and -n," felt contrived and tacked on. Why didn't he use that scheme instead of dashing around the world? And if he really was so dependent on constant contact with +n and -n, why did he only communicate with them for a few minutes three days a week? And that to read out a bunch of stock picks.

But what would they talk about?

Quote

One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?

I believe he read them on friday, and passed them to wednesday, who purchased on monday.
What was purchased on monday was selected for sale wednesday, and sold on friday.

wakela · **Reply #38 on:** February 22, 2007, 12:07:45 AM

Quote

I didn't find the narrator at all sympathetic. He's a rich twit who boasts of his intelligence but couldn't come up with any of the solutions suggested above, and fails miserably without his crutch. He believes he's been given a gift by Evolution (pretty sure Steve read that with a capital E) and he uses it to be a parasite.

I remember this bugged me at the time, too. He did refer to is superior intelligence. Even though it was from his point of view, he would have to be incredibly dim to be unaware that he was simply cheating.

The evolution comment reminded me that there was a serious Intelligent Design riff at the end there. That evolution had a purpose and that he was thwarting this purpose by not using his gift. I know that this was the character talking, and not Silverberg, but I wonder if Silverberg would have put this in a story today. Obviously, the character had already used his gift to ensure his and his offspring's survivability. If using his gift more meant that he could not be with the woman he loved and make timeshifting babies, then that would change the "plan" of evolution.

Talia · **Reply #39 on:** February 22, 2007, 02:15:30 AM

I thought most of the story was rather noirish, personally. Some odd combination of a mystery and a sci fi story. I rather enjoyed the combination (there should be more sci-fi mysteries..

).

I personally liked the ending, as well. Maybe because the idea of shaking hands with onesself just tickles my fancy

tsanders · **Reply #40 on:** February 22, 2007, 04:46:48 AM

Quote from: contra on February 19, 2007, 10:14:20 PM

Quote
"Honey, I love you to bits, but just give me 20 minutes a day on the john, and we'll be rolling in the dough, mmmkay?"

so be fair the character said that wasn't the issue. It was the constant feeling of the others being there.
I guess it was a like a security blanket; you feel naked and vinrable when you go on without it at first... but you learn to forget about it and live with it.

Well, to be fair, the character said it wasn't the issue, but it sure took up a lot of the space to resolve, didn't it? The narrator may have insisted it wasn't the problem - but he went to crazy lengths to fix the thing that wasn't the problem.

I have to say, I didn't like this one. I didn't like the all of the exposition about the n-1, n+1, but I'm willing to let that slide. (As both a programmer and a SciFi fan I should expect to "get it" quicker than the average reader/listener. At least I hope so.) But the insta-love didn't feel authenthic, and all of the "Oh, we can never part for even a MOMENT, our love is SOOOOOO great." felt very juvenile to me. I never bought that a person who lived his life in this fashion would fall in love to the point of utter incapacitation in minutes like that. Since I never bought that premise the rest of the story was fighting with my "willling suspension of disbelief".

beardiebloke · **Reply #41 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:50:40 AM

I liked it - it really made me think of that movie Primer.

time travel + stock market = $$$

Paul Campbell · **Reply #42 on:** February 22, 2007, 12:18:36 PM

Good story, although I can't say I found the love story too convincing I'm afraid. Felt too much like a plot device.

For a character supposedly smart enough to develop the scheme of working the stock market so successfully, he wasn't smart enough to stop trading when he lost touch with his future self. That's a minor point, as he could just have easily lost that money doing nothing.

I did enjoy it however. More please.

RKG · **Reply #43 on:** February 22, 2007, 08:04:15 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on February 21, 2007, 02:02:47 PM

I got a kick out of this story on many levels. For one I like the character, his fraternal interactions with +n and -n, and how they didn't make waves: Each did as +n suggested, while not ruining the fun for -n.
One thing that kind of skipped for me is that although Now only has contact with +n and -n, +n would be in contact with +n+n, who would be in touch with +n+n+n, and so on. So what's stopping +n^n from relaying information from the distant future, back to the correct "Now" who can act on it?

I enjoyed the story, but had the same reaction: Communication with any future self = communication with all future selves. Silverberg even hints at this with the "pass it on" comment +N makes at one point.

Seems like his future could/would ring back all the way from his death - just like his history is carried forward all the way from birth. Maybe he is consciously NOT telling -N things just for that reason. It'd be too depressing.

Of course, any break in the communication (like, say, coming across a psi-suppressing field at some point) would stop the chain right there. It's the reverse time-flow equivalent of getting amnesia.

Russell Nash · **Reply #44 on:** February 22, 2007, 09:22:16 PM

Quote from: Mr. Bunny on February 21, 2007, 10:33:39 PM

One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?

When you look at the stock listings it has current price, high price from the last year, low price from the last year, etc.. Also many papers and IHT (International Herald Tribune) is (I believe) one of them has a big movers list. This list give the stocks that lost or gained big. This is all he was looking for.

Djerrid · **Reply #45 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:08:39 AM

I liked this story in spite of myself. I usually cringe at inconsistencies and gross violations of common sense, but this story had me hooked the whole time. In addition to the ones mentioned above, here are a few more I've noticed of just the stock trading scheme:
- Of all the things one could do with that superpower, the only one he ever attempts is to make money on the stock market? Why not gambling on sporting events? Why not take a page from Early Edition and tip off passengers of a fatal plane crash the day before? Usually money-hungry people are power-hungry as well. How about telling a Prime Minister about an attempted coup of his government in exchange for favors?
- One of the most implausible aspects of the story was that Celine was NOT from the SEC. Nobody is right all the time. If they are it throws up red flags everywhere.
- If his brokers are gleaning from his "sure thing", they wouldn't be able to keep that secret for long. Soon everyone "in the know" would be getting a cut as well.

BlairHippo · **Reply #46 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:20:21 AM

I really disliked this story.

Quote from: wakela on February 18, 2007, 11:24:13 PM

It's perilously close to Steve's pet peeve that the characters must be stupid for the plot to work.

Actually, this is one of the more egregious examples of "Idiot Plot" I've seen in a long time. (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html) The story works because and only because the characters are total idiots. Why did they need to be together 24/7? Just designate a single bloody hour a day for work -- which it sounded like she actually wanted him to do -- and the problem evaporates entirely! Other people have mentioned it, but I actually got so irked about this I was yelling at my iPod. (Luckily, I was in my car, so I didn't have a bus full of strangers thinking I was a lunatic.)

And then her giving up her amulet so they could be together, even though it was painfully obvious they could only be together in any meaningful way if she kept the amulet ... wow. Just ... wow.

Didn't buy the romance; that's not love, that's two infatuated teenagers. (Among other things I could point to, if they really loved each other, they'd have shared the gifts that defined so much of their lives a hell of a lot sooner than they did.) Didn't like the characters. Got irked by plot-hole after plot-hole. Got bored several times.

There were some very interesting ideas here, but I thought they were utterly wasted on this plot and these characters. I expect better from Escape Pod, let alone a freakin' Grandmaster.

fiveyearwinter · **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:06:50 PM

I really enjoyed the concept of this story, but I don't understand why he couldn't just leave for an hour a day. I mean, she got him the newspapers and that actually kind of made me laugh, but...I guess I would just get a drink by myself for a little, pick the stocks, and bam, I'm set.

Also, for someone doing it as long as he had, and as smart as he claimed to be, I found it hard to believe that he would suck at picking stocks THAT BADLY- even if he's got an unfair advantage, he could still have figured something out without them.

Thaurismunths · **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:39:19 PM

Quote from: fiveyearwinter on February 23, 2007, 12:06:50 PM

I really enjoyed the concept of this story, but I don't understand why he couldn't just leave for an hour a day. I mean, she got him the newspapers and that actually kind of made me laugh, but...I guess I would just get a drink by myself for a little, pick the stocks, and bam, I'm set.

Also, for someone doing it as long as he had, and as smart as he claimed to be, I found it hard to believe that he would suck at picking stocks THAT BADLY- even if he's got an unfair advantage, he could still have figured something out without them.

I think his big objection wasn't the money but, as he mentioned towards the end, the ever-present connection he had with himselves. I think it would be akin to being estranged from your family or best friends for dating someone.

I don't know much about picking stocks, but I think the losses weren't suffered because he was bad at picking stocks, I think it's because he didn't pay any attention to the outside world. Once a week he talked to himselves only long enough to do business transactions, and never asking +n why the stocks jumped. He probably became lazy about the other trappings of the marketplace because he had an absolutely fool proof plan, and only fools fall in love.

If I were to be nit-picky about this piece, it would be the ending.
She swings thru time with out the pendant and she can't control it, so what makes it possible for him to mimic her power, but she can't mimic his or control her own?

waiting4oct · **Reply #49 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:03:10 PM

I know this was written with 1987 being the future, but 20 years of hindsight is hard to ignore. Check out Black Monday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_%281987%29

Friday the 16th was the end of the week where our protagonist was taking a bath, losing hundreds of thousands of pounds. I wonder if he accidentally triggered Black Monday because brokers were copying his moves with a poorly kept secret?

Author Topic: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n} (Read 38998 times)

PHaring

Russell Nash