Author Topic: PC174: The Parable of the Shower  (Read 32383 times)

Listener

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Reply #50 on: September 21, 2011, 06:35:32 PM
It's seldom that I drive on the traffic-laden streets of Atlanta cackling aloud in my car, no doubt causing other drivers to shy away from me if they notice.

So THAT'S who I was moving over to get away from...

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Calculating...

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Reply #51 on: September 21, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
Shalom ElectricPaladin. I think that is probably why we both loved it. Most people these days seem to have actually read the old testament, rarely understanding that the old testament god gets in a lot of arguments with his chosen people. Ah, such is the burden we share. Now for some reason I feel the need to call my mother...

I don't know who you are or where you came from, but from now on you'll do as I tell you, okay?


Talia

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Reply #52 on: September 22, 2011, 06:28:47 PM
Highly amusing. Brightened my day - just really enjoyable. Great reading too.

Nothing terribly insightful to say, but I really wanted to express my appreciation, because it brought some much-needed laughs.



imstillreading

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Reply #53 on: September 25, 2011, 01:10:28 AM
Wow - awesome story! I laughed out loud. I enjoyed the characters, good dialogue, great twists, and a fresh approach (with hope!) to old stories and old structures.
Love it.
(To all the haters out there: if you can't empathize, be someone else for a few minutes, or enjoy a story as a story, don't read fiction. Oh, and, I send love to you anyway.)



birdless

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Reply #54 on: September 27, 2011, 08:56:59 PM
Dammit I completely forgot what I was going to say here in my commentary. Oh well, I used some profanity, anyway, so I guess that compromises any validation I may have had.

Oh, I remember part of what I was going to day. It was a question about whether anything should be held sacred or not. I can't remember who said that all things should be off-limits (nothing should be held sacred, I'm sorry I couldn't find the direct quote), but I'm not sure I agree with this. For sake of argument, I'm going to skip explanations of what I hold sacred due to my faith, and just use this example: my mother was one of the most precious people who ever lived (and while I easily admit to some prejudice in this, MANY others who knew her and held no prejudice would agree with me). If someone were to write about her in a disrespectful manner, I would have major issues with that person. This is the closest thing I can think of to demonstrate the concept of something sacred in a secular setting. Hopefully the inference here is obvious: there is surely something or someone sacred to nearly everyone. Just because we have the freedom to write disrespectfully about someone doesn't mean we should, does it?

So anyway, since I said all that, I guess I'll offer my opinion on the story. I did find it humorous and well-written (in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way) and the narration was excellent. Being a Christian, I can't say that I was completely comfortable with some of the irreverence, but I would definitely classify it as "Mostly Harmless."  :)



jenfullmoon

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Reply #55 on: September 28, 2011, 03:23:53 PM
This is now one of my favorite stories on this site. It tickles me no end and the language use cracked me up. Worked great for me, especially second person in this case :)

I also really liked the narration on this one. Gorgeous!

Favorite line: "It is not thy job to tell an angel of the LORD that thou likest not the boys."



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Reply #56 on: September 28, 2011, 05:07:14 PM
Holy cow did I enjoy this story!  When I wasn't laughing out loud, I was chuckling to myself.  Thank God I listened to this story while driving and walking the dogs.  Wonderful story, beautifully read.

I'm coming to the realization that audiobook (or podcast) is the best format for short fiction.

Thank you again, Podcastle. 

Dave's preamble (it wasn't a rant - it was too clear, reasoned and cogent to be a rant) was an added bonus.

Bravo.



FireTurtle

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Reply #57 on: September 28, 2011, 05:17:25 PM
I think its all been said already. But, this: I want a life size oil painting of the shower scene. I'm thinking...Botticelli's Venus but with Loofa and Indignant Expression.  I NEED this. Anyone?

Loved the reading, loved the story. And yes, the line that made me laugh the loudest (they all made me smile or laugh) was the DAYCARE line. Oh my. Priceless.

And hey, Dave, props for calling it like you see it. Human beings disagree with each other- unity of thought is not part of our nature. Witness the fact that we have a forum for "discussion", not "universal and united agreement of PodCastle episode qualities". My personal creed runs much towards the "I'm really happy you believe whatever it is if you believe if you aren't a hypocrite and you aren't an asshole about it." So, you're on the side of the righteous with me.


“My imagination makes me human and makes me a fool; it gives me all the world and exiles me from it.”
Ursula K. LeGuin


Gamercow

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Reply #58 on: September 28, 2011, 10:49:53 PM
Loved this one, and damned be the naysayers, for thouest hast no sense of humour. 


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Raymond

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Reply #59 on: October 01, 2011, 04:25:17 AM
Brilliant story, performed by a miracle worker, introduced by a sage.
Thank you so much for this episode of PodCastle. 



hallowmas

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Reply #60 on: October 02, 2011, 12:16:54 PM
So yeah...like a bunch of people...long time listener, first time poster...

I have listened to Podcastle for a few years now, always with the intention of signing up for the forum and whatnot...it was this story though, this one that really spoke to me. Nagging me to express my opinion.

I.LOVED.IT!

Growing up in you're pretty typical american christian household I was taught the basics like "do unto others" and "love thy neighbor", and the moral I got from this of "if you want the change to happen, you need to be involved in the process" is one that has been instilled in me since childhood, and I loved the way the it was delivered here.

Also the way that Laurice White read this added a ton of depth, and (at the risk of being all fan-girl) I less then three'd it...and do you think an angel would smite a person if they maced it for surprising them in the shower?



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Reply #61 on: October 03, 2011, 05:52:20 PM
The story itself was good but the pseudo-King James English made it a little irritating to listen to. 



CJGuy

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Reply #62 on: October 06, 2011, 03:33:03 AM
I'll have to open my comments with several confessions:

1.  I'm a first time poster here - and I feel like such a joiner after reading all the posts and replies. But this story absolutely demanded a reaction from me.  So here I am.

2.  I grew up in a traditional, middle class Christian home where everything seemed simple and straightforward when it came to religion... until I was old enough to realize that I was irrevocably gay, and it wasn't a choice.

3.  So these days I'm gay, in a relationship, and out to my family - it's quite the controversy around the old homestead at holidays.  It was a big deal for me for oh, about twenty-plus years.  But then I had a big get-over-it which resulted in a far more balanced and healthy life for me. My sexuality doesn't define me, but it is a part of me.

4.  Prior to this story I had a bit of a crush on Dave's voice and his rant at the beginning has exacerbated that crush to the point that my partner is beginning to feel a bit jealous.  We'll work through it, but I might have to stick to Escape Pod for a few weeks.  :)  Kidding aside - thanks for the rant Dave.  It was honest, heartfelt and it set me up very well for the story that followed.

5. I laughed out loud at the same line as Spindaddy:
You had me at "Motherfu—thou sayest, "

My own favorite line is "It is not thy job to tell an angel of the Lord that thou likest not the boys".

6. I like Orson Scott Card however I'm disappointed to hear about the upcoming story with Hamlet's Dead Gay Father being evil for his gayness.  However I used to have similar feelings about Mormons because I was raised to believe that anything different from what I was taught about religion was likely cultish, misguided or heathen.  If I can change then so can OSC.

7. I really enjoy the reading of Laurice White.  Her voice is smooth and her southern accent feels like home to me.  She absolutely enhanced this story (and don't get me started about the N.K. Jemisin story she read a while back).

8. So to bring all this around to my response to the story; I loved it, which probably isn't a surprise at this point in my litany.  I loved that it made me laugh at the outset with lines like "Motherfu-thou sayest".  And I loved that it caught me by surprise with the helpful "assist" of the neighbor.  And I love the fact that it wrapped up with the idea that something can be changed for the better.  The idea that the beliefs, behaviors, assumptions and ideologies can be improved.  Dare I say corrected?  All because someone decides to help raise a child in an environment where neighbors help neighbors. And where a person can speak their mind (even unto the Angel of the Lord) and actually convince a stubborn intruder to consider being polite rather than to simply try to use their position to force things to be a certain way.  That's a nice thing to think about.

All that said; I have no idea what I think of the theology of the story, but in the end I don't think it matters.  It's a thought-provoking and funny story and I am glad it was chosen by PodCastle.

CJ Guy

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HexD

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Reply #63 on: October 17, 2011, 05:43:12 AM
Blasphemy? No.

Funny as hell? Yes.



Leslianne

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Reply #64 on: November 05, 2011, 06:33:11 AM
My favorite podcastle in a good long while! And one of the best marriages of voice and text since Fiddler on Bayou Teche. Three enthusiastic thumbs up!



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Reply #65 on: November 30, 2011, 06:22:11 PM
I didn't find the story blasphemous, but I'm not sure there's anything that I would actually label as blasphemous.  To me blasphemy is to a particular religion like grammar is to a particular dialect.  To recognize a grammar error in a language you have to be fairly fluent in it.  To recognize blasphemy, you have to be fairly fluent in or dedicated to the religion for which it is a blasphemy.  I don't think I'm devoted enough to any particular relgion to call anything blasphemous.  And even from within a religion you'd have disagreement, such as Dave not considering this one blasphemous.  I can certainly recognize that it would be considered blasphemous by some people.  (oh I see there's a separate thread for the intro comments, so I'll keep it at that for now).

I loved this story.  I love some well-placed religious irreverence in my fiction.  Of all the topics I've seen written about or written about myself the only one that consistently has been high on that list is contemplation of the nature of God and/or the afterlife.  I eat this stuff up when it's written well, and this one was written VERY well.  It makes interesting points WHILE being entertaining at the same time.  And Laurice knocked the narration out of the park.  I think this one would be a hard one to narrate because of the mixture of archaic words with modern setting and modern words, but she hit it perfectly.  I tend to like stories that put new twists on or put religion in a humorous bent.  I think that it's a valuable trait to be able to discuss your faith with good humor.  I don't think anyone is claiming that this story provides the absolute truth about how angels are, for instance, but by writing and sharing the story it opens a dialog about how they might be or should be or could be, and that in it iself is very valuable.  Even if you believe you know for a fact that angels are not like this, there's still value in being able to read the story and discuss it.

So, yeah I guess I don't have too much else to say about the story itself.    It was great, everything that I had hoped that "Hell Is the Absence of God" would've been.  I did have a few things to respond to in other comments, perhaps another post for that...






Unblinking

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Reply #66 on: November 30, 2011, 06:23:09 PM
I have to admit, though, that I couldn't help but read this story as "the parable of the shower," as in one who shows, as in opposed to a grower - as in somebody possessed of the dubious blessing of a penis that is impressively large when flaccid (rather than simply becoming so when aroused - a more common condition).

Ha!  That's great.  I've heard that term before, but it hadn't crossed my mind here.  Now I think I'll never be able to see this title without thinking of that again.

I love the phrase "with all due respect." It doesn't really mean anything, does it? :P

To me, it absolutely means something, though not what people assume it means.  
If someone says "with all due respect, I think most people would say that taken out of context it means "I respect you, but this is why I disagree."  This is what most people think of, but usually the phrase isn't used that way.
To me, though, if someone says "with all due respect", and then shows NO respect, then this also means something.  It means that they ARE showing you the respect that they feel you are due.  Which is to say that they are telling you that you deserve no respect.  So rather than being a statement used to soften the blow of honest constructive criticism, it is used as a blunt insult.  At least that's how I interpret it.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 06:28:02 PM by Unblinking »



Unblinking

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Reply #67 on: November 30, 2011, 06:35:08 PM
Oh yeah, and on the subject of profanity, I see no reason why one cannot use profanity and also be religious.

I like my dad's viewpoint on this.  My dad's a pastor.  He doesn't swear (at least not that I've heard), but he's not offended by it when people just generally use it or when he sees it in movies or the like.  I expect he wouldn't want people to swear in church, or some situations like that, but I mean in general.  The only time I've heard him say that he was bothered by swearing was when someone seemed to be swearing specifically to get a rise out of him.  Like, someone who doesn't usually swear that much, but they see a preacher-man and they say "Let's try to get a rise out of the pastor, I bet he won't like swearing, so I'm going to try to make him uncomfortable."  That annoys him, but not because of the swearing, because of the intent.



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Reply #68 on: December 01, 2011, 05:18:44 PM
I just remembered another thing that stood out for me:
I don't think I've ever heard the word "shame" used the way it was in this story (to refer to genitals).  Is that a common usage in some areas, or just for this story? 

That particular slang made me kind of sad--it makes me think it might be an expression used as religious connotation (as in the shame of Adam and Eve after they ate the fruit), but even from a religious point of view genitals are God-given, so what is to be ashamed of?  I mean, I'm not saying one should go naked in public spaces, but she is in the shower after all, where one is generally expected to be in the buff.



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Reply #69 on: December 02, 2011, 01:21:29 AM
It's a southern-US colloquialism, I think.  "Hide your shame" means "get dressed," usually with overtones of disparagement or disapproval. 



justenjoying

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Reply #70 on: January 09, 2012, 06:13:56 AM
I loved the moral to this story, but getting there while funny was fustrating. Christian tropes always bug me and this story is no exception. But to change those tropes that annoy me, we must teach them better. That is truly the long and the short of it. And I don't care who you are either, no way I'm having a baby right now.



LaShawn

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Reply #71 on: January 10, 2012, 04:15:31 PM
Yay! I'm back to catching up on my stories! And JOY! This was my first one in a long time.
So I loved this one. I want to put Dave's rant on a plaque--he's nailed down what I've been struggling with in my Christian walk for the past several years. I'm putting his words alongside my other favorite Christian SF writer, Maurice Broaddus, who did a similar rant on his blog.

The story: beauteous. The reading: wonderful. The content: not blaphemous at all. In fact, I found it very close to Biblical thinking. Allow me to indulge in some Christian world-view imagining (which is not as conservative as others). This story is a retelling of john the baptist birth set in modern times. The kid born isn't the Messiah--he's justa wiseman. John the Baptist was also considered a messenger, and he was born to an older woman considered past her fertile years, Elizabeth.

I did like how the angels were baffled by the MC's refusal, and i especially like the end where the angel appears in human form to talk face to face. I would go so far as to say that this would've been God's plan all along, to get the angels to communicate in a better fashion (though i don't presume to know the mind of God, biblical or fictional) i can see the following taking place:

Angel: this girl refuses to host your child!
God: hmm...well, tell her she must
Angel: but how can she say no to you? You're God! Can't you strike her down? Or turn her into a donkey?
God: No, I'm not going to. This child must be born. Tell her that.
Angel: but she keeps saying...hold on...stand by. There's another woman who says she'll do it. An old one.
God: Perfect. Knock her up.
Angel: (blinking) but...then...why didn't we just go to her instead of the foul-mouthed one?
God: You'll see...
(9 months later)
Angel: okay, I give up. This woman whined and wailed about not being able to care for this kid, and now look at her! She may as well be the mother for all she dotes on him.
God: Yes. It's all working out very nicely. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Angel: I don't get it.
God: Perhaps you should spend more time with her. But not the flashy way you like to appear. Why not tone it down a bit?
Angel: But that's boring. I like being flashy.
God: I know. But if you tone it down a bit, you might find that she would be easier to get to know. And then the two of you can establish a relationship. You can finally learn the nature of humans and she would learn that not all angels are blathering messenger pigeons. And perhaps, even, one night, say after a bottle of wine, she may think you're even kind of cute...in a angelic sort of way, and then after several bottles, the way to another child would be paved...
Angel: Wait...what?
God: Nothing. Have fun.

My only negative comment was that I was a little turned off by the language--not because she was doing it before the Lord, but I was more bothered by the fact that she was a black woman and thus the whole M******F**** swearing thing becomes a type of stereotype. Then again, her outburst at the beginning had me cracking up the most, so perhaps I'm just in a paradoxical mood. Dammit.

And now to dive into more stories! Wheeeee!!!

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ElectricPaladin

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Reply #72 on: January 10, 2012, 04:25:12 PM
I did like how the angels were baffled by the MC's refusal, and i especially like the end where the angel appears in human form to talk face to face. I would go so far as to say that this would've been God's plan all along, to get the angels to communicate in a better fashion (though i don't presume to know the mind of God, biblical or fictional) i can see the following taking place:

Angel: this girl refuses to host your child!
God: hmm...well, tell her she must
Angel: but how can she say no to you? You're God! Can't you strike her down? Or turn her into a donkey?
God: No, I'm not going to. This child must be born. Tell her that.
Angel: but she keeps saying...hold on...stand by. There's another woman who says she'll do it. An old one.
God: Perfect. Knock her up.
Angel: (blinking) but...then...why didn't we just go to her instead of the foul-mouthed one?
God: You'll see...
(9 months later)
Angel: okay, I give up. This woman whined and wailed about not being able to care for this kid, and now look at her! She may as well be the mother for all she dotes on him.
God: Yes. It's all working out very nicely. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Angel: I don't get it.
God: Perhaps you should spend more time with her. But not the flashy way you like to appear. Why not tone it down a bit?
Angel: But that's boring. I like being flashy.
God: I know. But if you tone it down a bit, you might find that she would be easier to get to know. And then the two of you can establish a relationship. You can finally learn the nature of humans and she would learn that not all angels are blathering messenger pigeons. And perhaps, even, one night, say after a bottle of wine, she may think you're even kind of cute...in a angelic sort of way, and then after several bottles, the way to another child would be paved...
Angel: Wait...what?
God: Nothing. Have fun.

I really, really love that angle. It hadn't occurred to me, but it's officially hilarious.

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LaShawn

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Reply #73 on: January 10, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Yeah. You have a nice clash of predestination vs free will. I'm no theologian, but I like to believe my faith involves both in some way.

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Reply #74 on: January 27, 2012, 08:13:15 PM
That was awesome.  Just finished listen, as i am new to the PodCastle.  This was very well written, and the reading was fantastic too.