Author Topic: PC224: The Navigator and the Sky  (Read 12280 times)

Talia

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on: September 04, 2012, 03:52:03 PM
PodCastle 224: The Navigator and the Sky

by Ian McHugh.

Read by Darren Kelk, of ScifiSurplus.com.

Originally appeared in Giganotosaurus. The story text is available here.


“Sing, Kio Lea! Sing!” Tapa O heard his wife urge, even over his own exhortations to his nephews and grandsons to paddle.

The young men bent their backs. Sluggishly, the big double-hulled canoe moved out of the harbour. Huddled on the platform that joined the twin hulls, a pile of shadows beneath the platform’s roof, the men’s wives tried to quiet their crying children. The sail hung slack, dyed orange by the light of the fires ashore, its turtle motif half-hidden in its folds.

Kio Lea’s voice rose at last. Tapa O put a hand to his chest, feeling the song in his heart and lungs, the pulse and breath of the world. His granddaughter’s voice belonged to the days of the ancestors, he was fond of boasting, when mankind still had one foot in the realm of the gods.

The Wind arrived, the goddess leaning into the sail as she inhaled Kio Lea’s song. The canoe surged forward. The young men gave a ragged cheer, the sail with its painted turtle filling out proudly above them.

Tapa O hauled on the tiller, bringing the canoe around. His eyes roved the heavens, mapping the tracks of the stars without needing to check the brass cylinder of the star compass at his feet. The Wind was a slight thickening of the air around the sail, distorting his view of the constellations directly overhead.


Listen to this week’s PodCastle!



Listener

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Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 12:27:35 PM
This story is somewhat similar to a novel being written in my writing group right now, and I'm enjoying that, but for some reason stories like this don't work in audio for me. I'd probably read the text if it crossed my screen, but I had difficulty listening to it. Maybe it was the narrator -- the story flowed too smoothly over me. That's not a criticism, by the way.

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Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 09:21:33 PM
I just wanted to say that I did find this story typical of podcastle's stories.

Technically well done. The story itself not flawed or bad. The voice acting well done. But I just didn't care for the whole.

There have been a number (at least I remember there being a number of) of slice of fantasy life stories on podcastle. Tales in which we spend a short time with some characters in which they basically reset at the end of the tale and the story is about their growing choice to keep doing what they were doing or to go down a different path later. I rarely enjoy these stories, as they often have characters that do not Do anything. This story felt the same way.

The story hung on the reader/listener connecting to the characters, and I completely failed to do so. So once the story moved into the mythic in which beings don't have descriptions but rather descriptors - Mother of the Earth etc- I didn't care what was going to happen I just wanted it to end with a satisfactory conclusion. When it did end I was unable to remember what the secondary characters goals were to know if they were happy or not with the outcome. This is no doubt from my lack of connecting to the characters at all.

The myth nature of the story, combined with my mental image of a canoe as being without a mast, could perhaps be pointed to part of the disconnect. I was not able to enter the world of the story, nor connect to the characters. The characters felt so very passive, not active members of their own tale. Even at the end or hero just has others overcome the challenges around him to resolve the story.

I don't regret listening to it, as it wasn't bad... I just didn't like it. I will continue to download and listen to podcastle's stories, having been with podcastle since the beginning.

Thanks for the story, even if I don't want to ever hear it again :)



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Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 02:13:57 PM
Yeah, this story didn't interest me much.  The part where I started getting interested is when the stars started getting knocked from the sky, and I felt like there were actually some stakes here which my mind had just been wandering before that.  After that it kept up a reasonably brisk pace, but the story was way too long for its content.



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Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 06:42:31 PM
[Yawn] Yet another story where the gods live close to the people and magic is woven closely into the lives of ordinary people. [Yawn]

Just Kidding. I love this kind of story and will listen again soon.

So much here to love: The price of magic, determination and perseverance, Family ties.

I think it's a win on almost every level.



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Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 04:02:11 AM
Something that often happens to me when I'm listening to podcasts is that I lose the thread of the story or thought. I do a lot of my listening while walking my dogs, driving or doing jobs around the house, so if I get distracted by the lawnmower playing up, the dogs tear-assing through the kitchen or just something shiny, I'll find myself 5 minutes in with no idea of what's going on. This happened 5 or 6 times to me withing the first few minutes of "The Navigator and the Sky". I found myself repeatedly wondering who was who, what they were running from and where they were running to! I think a combination of mental preoccupation, the names of the characters, and the way the story flowed so smoothly (as Listener mentioned) combined to let the thing wash over me. Sometimes its nice when this happens, but this time I persevered, skipped back a bunch of times and was glad I did.

Stories about family, loyalty, and generations passing on their gifts and knowledge really tug at my heart strings these days. I think it's because I'm at the stage where my wife and I are thinking about having kids, and we have a great extended family with little nephews that I adore, but every time there's a sniff of family peril I get really emotionally involved. So, I loved the relationships between the characters here. I also thought the scene with the stars falling was brilliant. The part where Tapa O dragged and guided the canoe through the water was beautiful; a perfect fit for the themes of the story and a great metaphor for how the older generations can guide and support their descendants.

This story isn't one I'll particularly be coming back to over and over, but I really enjoyed it after a little persistence!



Max e^{i pi}

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Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
Fascinating story, terrible reading.
Apparently Mr. Kelk was absent from school the day they learned about punctuation. He never paused at the end of a sentence, often paused in the middle of a sentence and had a complete disregard for question marks, quotation marks and various sundry other little notations that humans use to convey meaning and further intent to the text. Add that to the oft-remarked complaint about the lack of an audible cue between sections and what we are left with is what might be a wonderful story that was totally ruined by the ineptitude of the narrator.
Hopefully I'll have the time to read the text, because this story really does interest me. (I gave up 20 minutes in)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 01:15:14 PM by Max e^{i pi} »

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Talia

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Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 01:26:12 PM
Please remember the forum's main rule.

There are ways to say you thought an improvement could have been made without being derogatory.

Please, please people, remember to be kind.



Max e^{i pi}

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Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 02:22:08 PM
Please remember the forum's main rule.

There are ways to say you thought an improvement could have been made without being derogatory.

Please, please people, remember to be kind.
I generally try too. When I have something negative to say about the story or narrating I often usually hint at it rather subtlety and in a sort of apologetic manner. And I waited 4 hours from my failed attempt to listen to this episode before posting, to give myself time to calm down.
But when I started reading the story, and realized that Wind, Sky and Earth are proper nouns, I lost it again. And for that I apologize.
There is a way to pronounce words with capital letters, and now suddenly, when I realized that these are proper nouns, the story makes so much more sense.
Again, I apologize for the way I wrote my previous comment, I was out of line. But let's also remember that this is an audio production, and therefore one of the main things that people will notice is the quality of the audio. If the narrator completely fails to deliver the story in a coherent manner, then we have failed to deliver a good podcast.
The problem, I think, is that the quality here (and on the sister podcasts) is usually so good that I've come to expect such excellence as a matter of course. And when that quality is lacking it is really quite noticeable.
Again, sorry.   :-\

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ThomasTheAttoney

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Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 03:41:13 PM
story was maddeningly slow

the dogs tear-assing  <- funny.   through the kitchen or just something shiny,   <- funny    I'll find myself 5 minutes in with no idea of what's going on. This happened 5 or 6 times to me withing the first few minutes of "The Navigator and the Sky".  <- true   I found myself repeatedly wondering who was who, what they were running from and where they were running to!   the names of the characters, <- yes, fancy names for no reason.  writer should give the fancy name and then a short nickname,. bringing back the full name for something official 

 I think it's because I'm at the stage where my wife and I are thinking about having kids,   <- you should totally do this.  If you have healthcare, there is no reason to wait.  People who say "having kids is the toughest job you'll ever love" are people who complain about everything.  It more like "the only hobby you'll ever have that loves you back"  And the costs of raising children is greatly inflated by money managers.  Children are less expensive than most adult hobbies.  And college is no longer a question for children born today. It will either be government paid by then or few people will bother because its useless. 

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2729#comic     (comment on college)

Your  comment had better description, character development, and motivation than this story.  Perhaps the writer could send things to you for critique?




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Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
story was maddeningly slow

the dogs tear-assing  <- funny.   through the kitchen or just something shiny,   <- funny    I'll find myself 5 minutes in with no idea of what's going on. This happened 5 or 6 times to me withing the first few minutes of "The Navigator and the Sky".  <- true   I found myself repeatedly wondering who was who, what they were running from and where they were running to!   the names of the characters, <- yes, fancy names for no reason.  writer should give the fancy name and then a short nickname,. bringing back the full name for something official 

 I think it's because I'm at the stage where my wife and I are thinking about having kids,   <- you should totally do this.  If you have healthcare, there is no reason to wait.  People who say "having kids is the toughest job you'll ever love" are people who complain about everything.  It more like "the only hobby you'll ever have that loves you back"  And the costs of raising children is greatly inflated by money managers.  Children are less expensive than most adult hobbies.  And college is no longer a question for children born today. It will either be government paid by then or few people will bother because its useless. 

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2729#comic     (comment on college)

Your  comment had better description, character development, and motivation than this story.  Perhaps the writer could send things to you for critique?


Any chance you could clean up the quoting there?  I don't think Moby Click said everything that is quoted as Moby Click saying, and I'm having trouble separating out what Moby Click said and what you're responding to.



Kaa

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Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 05:30:58 PM
Hmm. I was going to comment that I rather enjoyed this story. Then I read all the comments up to this point and wondered what I missed.

Doesn't matter. I did enjoy it.

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Reply #12 on: September 13, 2012, 01:45:34 PM
Hmm. I was going to comment that I rather enjoyed this story. Then I read all the comments up to this point and wondered what I missed.

Doesn't matter. I did enjoy it.

Trust in the one with the snake avatar to be the voice of dissent.  ;) 



Kaa

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Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 03:37:35 PM
Trust in the one with the snake avatar to be the voice of dissent.  ;) 

I think you mean "dissssssent." :)

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Max e^{i pi}

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Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 04:11:21 PM
Trust in the one with the snake avatar to be the voice of dissent.  ;) 

I think you mean "dissssssent." :)
You do know that every time I look at your avatar I hear Trussssst in me.... Jussst trusssssst in me.... in my head, right?

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Kaa

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Reply #15 on: September 13, 2012, 04:27:06 PM
You do know that every time I look at your avatar I hear Trussssst in me.... Jussst trusssssst in me.... in my head, right?

My work here...is done.

I invent imaginary people and make them have conversations in my head. I also write.

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Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 01:31:39 PM
Trust in the one with the snake avatar to be the voice of dissent.  ;) 

I think you mean "dissssssent." :)

Ah yes, forgive my poorly executed dialect!  I mean, "Ah yesssssss".  :)



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Reply #17 on: September 14, 2012, 07:17:55 PM
Couldn't get focused -- I lost the thread many times and never quite caught on to who was the wife, who was the daughter, etc etc. Maybe I'll try listening from the beginning again.



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Reply #18 on: September 15, 2012, 01:28:03 AM
I enjoyed the story quite a bit.  There aren't many stories of any genera set in a Polynesian milieu so this was a pleasant change.  I think the story was well written and the grandfather character was interesting.

Now to the narration.  I liked the narrators voice and some of this vocal story telling, particularly some of his emphasis on descriptive passages like the cold emptiness of the sky palace but the comments regarding pacing and understanding of punctuation are all spot on.  If I had to guess I would say this was the first time he'd read the story, at least that's how I sound when I'm reading new work aloud for the first time.  Besides being more familiar with the work he may find it helpful to print the material with CLEAR  indicators of sentence ends, I occasionally have complete paragraph breaks after each sentence so I know when a phrase is continuing.



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Reply #19 on: September 15, 2012, 07:01:17 PM
Again, another story I found uncharacteristically long for me*. I've been having a problem keeping up with the podcast, and the length actually hasn't been helping (though that may change soon).

I too have a problem with connecting with the characters early on; I think part of it may have been the narration. The cadence at the beginning to my Gringo ears sounded like the sound of someone wrapping up a story rather than starting it out; it was a little rushed.

But I did like it more when it was stripped down to the main character and the daughter-in-law simply because it was easier to follow, and I appreciated the Polynesian roots of this fantasy. 


*(and don't think I've not noticed that the next story is a "Giant" as well  ;) )



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Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 02:43:04 AM
Coming in from a very very prolonged lurking period.

I'm afraid I also did not connect too well with the characters in the story. Which is a shame, because I thought that it was really cool that the ancient Polynesian world was used as a setting. Hence this post.

So here's some trivia which might be of interest. Dave mentioned that the author was inspired after seeing the Vaka Moana exhibit. That is just way cool, because that exhibit reminded us of the vastness of the Oceanic world: 25,000 islands over the largest ocean in the world. Talk about the Polynesians being under-represented in fiction, of whatever genre.
There were, however, bits which don't really match up with Polynesian historical values. The gods, on one hand, were far from humanized, much less subject to the kind of personalized and emotional identities we get here. The ones in the story resemble something more out of the Greco-Roman pantheon; whereas Oceanic gods weren't "gods" in a sort of otherworldly sense, but more like multiple presences that could take different forms and were all but modeled on human personality.

Another detail, the whole family solidarity thing is a bit modernistic, in that the relations in the story resemble those of a contemporary nuclear family. In Polynesian culture it was a rather more extended set of lineage relations and roles which determined people's attitudes to various kin.

Finally, there is some emphasis on the star compass. One thing that is increasingly clear about Polynesian navigation is that it was not based on a system of absolute orientations (N, S, E, W, for instance), nor on a spherical notion of the sky, but rather on a combination of many different aspects of local environmental knowledge, of which the winds were more important than the stars.

Ok, huge post. But there you are. That's what happens when one returns after lurking for a couple of years.

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Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 04:34:15 PM
I love the reader's voice, it sounded like waves washing over my ears. That did make it a bit hard to follow the actual story, but I feel it was well worth it...

I think my favorite part was the section where the grandfather went "all in" and turned to his turtle form in order to save his granddaughter. It's clear that this was an act of great desperation and the sacrifice that he made was really poignant for me. However, I guess I don't really understand the end goal here. Apparently he left his daughter on the main land - all alone - and returned to their whole family on an island. Doesn't that leave her in isolation for the rest of her life?


There were, however, bits which don't really match up with Polynesian historical values. The gods, on one hand, were far from humanized, much less subject to the kind of personalized and emotional identities we get here. The ones in the story resemble something more out of the Greco-Roman pantheon; whereas Oceanic gods weren't "gods" in a sort of otherworldly sense, but more like multiple presences that could take different forms and were all but modeled on human personality.

This is really interesting to me. One of the biggest problems I had with the story was I didn't understand why Sky was so obsessed with the granddaughter. I told myself several times to just assume that Sky is random and possessive the way Zeus is, but that never sat comfortably with me and I kept coming back to the question.



Talia

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Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
I love the reader's voice, it sounded like waves washing over my ears. That did make it a bit hard to follow the actual story, but I feel it was well worth it...

I think my favorite part was the section where the grandfather went "all in" and turned to his turtle form in order to save his granddaughter. It's clear that this was an act of great desperation and the sacrifice that he made was really poignant for me. However, I guess I don't really understand the end goal here. Apparently he left his daughter on the main land - all alone - and returned to their whole family on an island. Doesn't that leave her in isolation for the rest of her life?


There were, however, bits which don't really match up with Polynesian historical values. The gods, on one hand, were far from humanized, much less subject to the kind of personalized and emotional identities we get here. The ones in the story resemble something more out of the Greco-Roman pantheon; whereas Oceanic gods weren't "gods" in a sort of otherworldly sense, but more like multiple presences that could take different forms and were all but modeled on human personality.

This is really interesting to me. One of the biggest problems I had with the story was I didn't understand why Sky was so obsessed with the granddaughter. I told myself several times to just assume that Sky is random and possessive the way Zeus is, but that never sat comfortably with me and I kept coming back to the question.

She wasn't alone, she was with.. her mother's people, or something like that. The only family she had left back with the turtle people was her grandparents, and they decided it was best to ship her off to her distant relatives to keep her safe from crazy abuser Sky.



Devoted135

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Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 06:00:36 PM
I love the reader's voice, it sounded like waves washing over my ears. That did make it a bit hard to follow the actual story, but I feel it was well worth it...

I think my favorite part was the section where the grandfather went "all in" and turned to his turtle form in order to save his granddaughter. It's clear that this was an act of great desperation and the sacrifice that he made was really poignant for me. However, I guess I don't really understand the end goal here. Apparently he left his daughter on the main land - all alone - and returned to their whole family on an island. Doesn't that leave her in isolation for the rest of her life?


There were, however, bits which don't really match up with Polynesian historical values. The gods, on one hand, were far from humanized, much less subject to the kind of personalized and emotional identities we get here. The ones in the story resemble something more out of the Greco-Roman pantheon; whereas Oceanic gods weren't "gods" in a sort of otherworldly sense, but more like multiple presences that could take different forms and were all but modeled on human personality.

This is really interesting to me. One of the biggest problems I had with the story was I didn't understand why Sky was so obsessed with the granddaughter. I told myself several times to just assume that Sky is random and possessive the way Zeus is, but that never sat comfortably with me and I kept coming back to the question.

She wasn't alone, she was with.. her mother's people, or something like that. The only family she had left back with the turtle people was her grandparents, and they decided it was best to ship her off to her distant relatives to keep her safe from crazy abuser Sky.

Oh good, I clearly missed that part of the plan. Thanks for setting my mind at ease, Talia! :)



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Reply #24 on: September 18, 2012, 04:34:12 AM
story was maddeningly slow

the dogs tear-assing  <- funny.   through the kitchen or just something shiny,   <- funny    I'll find myself 5 minutes in with no idea of what's going on. This happened 5 or 6 times to me withing the first few minutes of "The Navigator and the Sky".  <- true   I found myself repeatedly wondering who was who, what they were running from and where they were running to!   the names of the characters, <- yes, fancy names for no reason.  writer should give the fancy name and then a short nickname,. bringing back the full name for something official 

 I think it's because I'm at the stage where my wife and I are thinking about having kids,   <- you should totally do this.  If you have healthcare, there is no reason to wait.  People who say "having kids is the toughest job you'll ever love" are people who complain about everything.  It more like "the only hobby you'll ever have that loves you back"  And the costs of raising children is greatly inflated by money managers.  Children are less expensive than most adult hobbies.  And college is no longer a question for children born today. It will either be government paid by then or few people will bother because its useless. 

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2729#comic     (comment on college)

Your  comment had better description, character development, and motivation than this story.  Perhaps the writer could send things to you for critique?


Just for clarity. ThomasTheAttoney's comments in red!



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Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 02:05:33 PM
Just for clarity. ThomasTheAttoney's comments in red!

Okay.  Would be much more readable if the quoted sections were all quotes.



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Reply #26 on: September 18, 2012, 08:58:05 PM
I'd love to hear more folklore and such around these parts, Polynesian or otherwise. The imagery of Sky killing the stars and the aftermath of that was pretty awesome.

The narrator had a great voice and accent, but the un-conversational pauses detracted from the overall effect. Narration's hard and takes a lot of practice, so I can sympathize.

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Reply #27 on: September 20, 2012, 03:05:41 AM
I had a really hard time connecting with these characters and staying with the unfolding story -- seemed to bounce right off my brain. I think some of the problem was with the unfamiliar names; I couldn't keep track of who was whom, or even their gender. And I think I found the islander belief system or world-building... quaint. Quaint rather than intriguing.


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Reply #28 on: September 20, 2012, 05:26:45 AM
I must step in and say that I loved this mythical tale.  And I think it needs to be read as a myth rather than a prose story.  There was such rich imagery and themes of family and sacrifice and revenge/redemption.  I like was these people seem to be at the mercy and in debt to the Gods, but they also have a power of their own.

Dave intro was a perfect backdrop for this storry speaking of his three generations at Hawaii and seeing the turtle.  Great episode!

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Reply #29 on: September 22, 2012, 06:35:53 PM
Long time listener, first time poster.  I really enjoyed this story and found myself unexpectedly moved by the end when the narrator was looking into his wife's face after his long journey.  Though it seems unfair that the granddaughter would have to be left behind on the mainland, it makes sense that things won't be fair when you have gods directly intervening in your lives. Thought the narration was great and didn't notice all the pauses mentioned by others.  Thanks!



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Reply #30 on: September 29, 2012, 04:06:48 PM
I found the first ten minutes or so of the story very hard to get into, which I think was partially a combination of lack of context as to what was going on (the combination of an in medias res beginning with a world whose basic cosmology is quite different to ours and crucial to understanding the story is not ideal in audio, where it's hard to re-read segments until they make sense), and partially the relatively low energy reading which clashed with the initial urgency felt by the characters. But once I got past the initial bump, and the story moved from the set-up to the journey of the grandfather and granddaughter, I found myself enjoying the story - and the reading - more and more, until by the end I really loved both.



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Reply #31 on: October 08, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
While slow to get going, I did find myself enjoying the story. The narration was a bit off, but the native accent made it work all the same.

With a little work, I could totally see this being produced by Studio Ghibli (despite my general dislike of anime). Of course, they would shift the focus away from the father and make the story about the grand daughter.

I agree with others that the story didn't gain traction until the stars fell from the skies, then it had me. This could use a bit of rewrite and be a truly great story.

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Reply #32 on: October 08, 2012, 04:28:49 PM
I quite enjoyed this story, but like many others, I missed a few things at the beginning. I went ahead and listened to the whole thing through on the first time, piecing together the first 10 minutes or so as I went along.

On a relisten, I'd agree that the first 10-20 minutes of the story are maybe a bit slow or confusing, but they all do make sense. More importantly, my guesses after listening to the last 3/4 of the story, having been confused initially, were spot on. I think most of you can figure it out.

This is not going to be in my top 10 or anything, even for this year, but it wasn't a bad story. It was just really long and had a confusing/dull start. Once you get past that start, the whole thing is very engaging, and the world interesting.

Also, no offense to anyone, but I'm not sure how you could not get that Sky, Earth, etc are proper nouns. It seemed self-evident from context, but also from the voice, at least to me. I would suggest that the inability to determine that Sky was a proper noun is certainly not universal, and may be more subjective than an objective failing of the narrator, whom I liked well enough.



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Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 04:47:32 PM
Have to echo everyone else. Great story, but the narrator will have to learn how to pause. I had trouble discerning one section from the next. Other than that, wonderful story. I especially liked how the gods fighting each other to protect the humans.

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Reply #34 on: November 09, 2012, 05:08:59 PM
Have to echo everyone else. Great story, but the narrator will have to learn how to pause. I had trouble discerning one section from the next. Other than that, wonderful story. I especially liked how the gods fighting each other to protect the humans.

It's probably not just the narrator that is responsible for pauses.  If the sound editor sees a long pause, they might edit it out, or they might add it if it helps clarify a section break.  Yes?  I agree that pauses would be good, however they are introduced.