Author Topic: PC225, Giant Episode: The Cage  (Read 17462 times)

ElectricPaladin

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Reply #25 on: September 20, 2012, 03:02:19 AM
Every time someone whines "this should be on Pseudopod" I have to fight the urge to reply "you should be on Pseudopod." Or Escape Pod. Or whatever. Look, people - genre is not a matter of right and wrong. Genre is fluid, mobile, and alive - like your internal organs once the greycaps have gotten to you. One man's horror is another man's fantasy. One man's science fiction - it's got space ships! - is another man's soft and squishy space fantasy.

Now, suppose I was a listener to Pseudopod, but did not listen to either Escape Pod or Podcastle (I'm sure they exist. I am the inverse), because I like that feeling that horror produces. Then I get the story "Squonk and the Lake Monster" as my next story. Now it might be argued that the story clearly is horror, since it contains a monster and the main character is scared (or at least concerned) for a time. That would even be a correct assessment. However, its content might not be best suited for those who came to get scared.

For those who listen to all three EA podcasts, the bleeding over from one podcast to another is irrelevant, or it may seem that they feel that way when viewed by those who don't listen to all three podcasts.

In this case, the productive criticism would be "this story failed to scare me and that was disappointing." That's an honestly subjective comment that we can have a conversation about, not an attempt to take something subjective (genre) and make it objective (where something belongs).

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Devoted135

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Reply #26 on: September 20, 2012, 08:52:18 PM
For me, this was definitely a fantasy-horror piece and given Fenrix's point about it being too long for Pseudopod, I would much rather that Podcastle run it than for it to not run at all.

I agree with, and will refer you to the much more eloquent comments of isocode and Moby Click, because it's been a long day and my wrist hurts. To sum up, I loved the reading, thought the atmosphere of the story was fantastic, and the main character was impressively three-dimensional in all of his strengths and weaknesses. I do wish that it had been told in chronological order because I'm still not sure how the flashbacks related to the main story arc, but that's a small negative next to all of the many positives.



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Reply #27 on: September 20, 2012, 08:58:02 PM
I've read this story twice (because I've read through "The Weird" twice.  That book is awesome.)

Wait, you read all of The Weird? TWICE?

That's an impressive feat!

I was on the overnight shift.  I got maybe one or two calls an hour, and most of the time they were just disconnects.  One finds ways to pass the time...

Wow. I bet that made for some creepy overnight shifts!


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Reply #28 on: September 21, 2012, 01:54:06 AM
Have to say, this didn't work for me at all. Reading/audio quality was good, no issues there, and I have no issues with it being presented on Podcastle versus some other venue. This may be one of those stories that would work better for me in print, where I could move through the ornate language and shifts in time at my own pace. I get that the author was going for a textured, atmosphere-heavy feel, but this story ended up mostly being tedious for me, really had to work to listen to the end, then had a "meh" moment from that.

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Myst

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Reply #29 on: September 22, 2012, 03:39:58 AM
I almost didn't make it thought the opening it took 3 tries and for me the payoff never came. Once the lady exploded in a cloud of spores I knew where the story was going.After that there really weren't any big surprises. I am sure that this story would have been much better received over on pseudopod.

Horror lends itself more to stories where the protagonist fails an everything ends in doom and gloom. You can have a fantasy story where the hero fails to save the day but the writer has to be top notch to pull it off. 



InfiniteMonkey

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Reply #30 on: September 26, 2012, 06:23:41 AM
I really liked this - more than I assumed when I saw it was another Giant - but for a reason no one else mentioned. See, I read the novel Finch by the same author, in the same setting (just a little farther along in time), so I really liked getting more of the backstory, and I was already familiar with the setting and the author's style.

If you liked this story, I would highly recommend the novel. Oh, and by the way, my book club couldn't quite decide where that novel fell either - fantasy? alt-universe SF? - but we didn't really get worked up about it. 



empathy44

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Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 06:40:53 AM
Fantastically written story. At first I thought "why were the people still living in that lethal environment. But then I realized that people live in all kinds of dangerous areas in the real world. He really didn't have anyplace to go.



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Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
I remember being very disturbed by this story when I read it in City of Saints and Madmen, and I was equally disturbed listening to it now. I don't remember my first reading well enough to know how it was revised, but this story encompasses everything I both like and dislike about Vandermeer's writing - wonderful mastery of atmosphere and the ability to make a bizzare world feel real (I have to say I totally disagree with Electric Paladin about the un-understandable descriptions. I don't think this story would have worked at all without them), but at the same time, the characters feel entirely psychologically opaque to me. There's an air of detachment between the narration and Hoegbotton that was very hard for me to penetrate.

I also have to say I somewhat understand the point of people who say this should have been on pseudopod. While I agree that the genre boundaries are essentially meaningless, the podcast boundary is not. I listen to PP when I'm in certain frames of mind, and to PC in others. There's no objective quality to this story that makes it not fit into Podcastle, but I think that if I had just listened to it when it came up on my PC stream without foreknowledge, I would have found it impenetrable. As it was, as I was familiar with the story, I knew what to expect and listened to it at a time when normally I would have gone for a PP episode, so it worked well for me.



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Reply #33 on: October 17, 2012, 04:20:33 PM
I'm sure this is coming way too late, but I often have to catch up on older 'casts.

I don't like horror. I don't judge it to be bad; I simply don't like to read or listen to horror, except on rare occasions when the mood strikes me. It puts me in a terrible mood, that I often can't shake. I ESPECIALLY don't like having horror thrust upon me unexpectedly, when I'm expecting vanilla fantasy. It's kind of like eating a chocolate chip cookie (which I LOVE) and biting down on a raspberry partway through. Yuck!

Listening to this story was like that. I really should have skipped it at the first inklings of horror, but I thought there might just possibly be a worthwhile payoff. Nope. Now, I'm in a funk that'll last all morning.

Some sort of warning up front would be lovely,



danooli

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Reply #34 on: October 17, 2012, 05:14:43 PM
You should NEVER expect "vanilla" fantasy from podcastle.



DKT

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Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 05:37:04 PM
I'm sure this is coming way too late, but I often have to catch up on older 'casts.

I don't like horror. I don't judge it to be bad; I simply don't like to read or listen to horror, except on rare occasions when the mood strikes me. It puts me in a terrible mood, that I often can't shake. I ESPECIALLY don't like having horror thrust upon me unexpectedly, when I'm expecting vanilla fantasy. It's kind of like eating a chocolate chip cookie (which I LOVE) and biting down on a raspberry partway through. Yuck!

Listening to this story was like that. I really should have skipped it at the first inklings of horror, but I thought there might just possibly be a worthwhile payoff. Nope. Now, I'm in a funk that'll last all morning.

Some sort of warning up front would be lovely,

FWIW, I do wish I had emphasized that aspect of the story more in the intro. Thanks for mentioning it - I'll try and catch it next time.

You should NEVER expect "vanilla" fantasy from podcastle.

 ;D ;D ;D


merian

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Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 06:15:40 AM
This is coming late, but I want to chime in still. I never was a fan of the horror genre as such. Pseudopod, in general, is just a little too dark for me. I don't like to revel in dread or moral ambiguity, either. BUT that doesn't mean that good stories can't be dark and that I want my fantasy to be light and fluffy *always*.

I really loved this story, and I'm glad that Podcastle, on occasion, runs something like this piece. So as far as I'm concerned, by all means warn ahead, but continue to consider this type of story.



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Reply #37 on: October 19, 2012, 04:30:47 PM
I really liked part of the story.  Unfortunately, this part was short-lived and embedded about 20 minutes into the 60+ minute tale so that it neither made a good hook nor a satisfying end and just sort of lived in the no-man's-land in between.

Seriously, you know a beginning is badly written if the editor writes an introduction wherein he says "Just stick through the beginning, thing's will start happening sooner or later".  The warning was helpful in that I was sure to keep listening at that point, but it also set my brain to "skeptical" right at the beginning, and except for that one short part, that skepticality never lifted, though I did keep listening to the end to make sure I wasn't missing anything awesome by jumping the gun on the Next button.

I don't know what that beginning was going for, but if it was meant to be anything but a sleep aid, it failed utterly with me.  The nature of the listing might've been enough to lull me just by itself, but I found the reading a bit flat throughout the whole story so that I rose from a stupor a few minutes after the beginning list had ended and I hadn't noticed because the narration sounded the same to my ears.  I'm not sure that was the reader's fault at all, the writing itself just struck me as very flat and I'm not sure that life could've been injected into it by the best reader. 

The scene that I liked was the sudden and aggressive outbreak of fungus at the house and his escape.  Other than that it was mostly about him thinkign about his work, which I didn't really care about in the slightest.  I did like the details of his girlfriend's condition, having gone blind and having lightning in her eyes. 

From the moment he was present for the guy exploding into spores, I assumed that he would get it, so that was just waiting for the inevitable, while listening to this irritating person talk about his dull work. 

You should NEVER expect "vanilla" fantasy from podcastle.

I hate when "vanilla" is used as a derogatory term to mean dull or common.  I like the flavor of vanilla, and I don't find it dull at all.  Maybe I'm just a "vanilla" person, which, since I like vanilla, sounds like a compliment to me, however others might take it. 

(Also, and I assume that this wasn't at all intended, but especially when I first started hearing that term, it strikes me as having racist undertones, especially when used in combination with chocolate.)

So, if I should never expect vanilla from podcastle, this makes me sad.   



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Reply #38 on: October 19, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
I am also annoyed by writers who hide something important because the viewpoint character doesn't want to think about it. It seems a cheap trick to me.

Interesting.  I am usually among the first to complain about withholding POV information from the reader.  But I think that not telling the reader something which the viewpoint character doesn't want to think about is actually a good usage of POV.  If they're trying so hard not to think of it, it's not going to float to the top of their consciousness for the reader to see.  An astute reader, coupled with a well-written POV of this type, should still be able to discern some shape of what is being withheld because there should be some clues in the text here and there.



DKT

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Reply #39 on: October 19, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

You should NEVER expect "vanilla" fantasy from podcastle.

I hate when "vanilla" is used as a derogatory term to mean dull or common.  I like the flavor of vanilla, and I don't find it dull at all.  Maybe I'm just a "vanilla" person, which, since I like vanilla, sounds like a compliment to me, however others might take it. 

(Also, and I assume that this wasn't at all intended, but especially when I first started hearing that term, it strikes me as having racist undertones, especially when used in combination with chocolate.)

So, if I should never expect vanilla from podcastle, this makes me sad.   

I think the thing with vanilla is, you know exactly what you're getting.

At PodCastle, one of our goals is to not be predictable, and present to our audience all different flavors of fantasy. Sure, longtime listeners might recognize an author's name, or the genre, but in general, we hope the stories themselves (and the variety they represent) are surprising. Even if you give it a taste and don't like them, you might make a face and say, "That was...interesting." Which is why you don't hear S&S every week, or adventure fantasy, or steampunk, or urban fantasy, or fungal fantastika, or whatever.

So, you might get a vanilla. But you might also get salted caramel or pomegranate or brown sugar with caramel swirl or honey lavender or toasted coconut. The options are plentiful! And when that vanilla story does drop (as they have, and will), it'll be unexpected, and - hopefully - delightful.

(ALSO: Bi-Rite Creamery FTW!)


Devoted135

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Reply #40 on: October 19, 2012, 08:21:04 PM
Reading these last couple comments made me realize that I am totally confusing the titles of this story and "Fable from a Cage." Interesting given that both have horror-esque undertones, though the similarity stops there.



Fenrix

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Reply #41 on: October 20, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
I think the thing with vanilla is, you know exactly what you're getting.

At PodCastle, one of our goals is to not be predictable, and present to our audience all different flavors of fantasy. Sure, longtime listeners might recognize an author's name, or the genre, but in general, we hope the stories themselves (and the variety they represent) are surprising. Even if you give it a taste and don't like them, you might make a face and say, "That was...interesting." Which is why you don't hear S&S every week, or adventure fantasy, or steampunk, or urban fantasy, or fungal fantastika, or whatever.

So, you might get a vanilla. But you might also get salted caramel or pomegranate or brown sugar with caramel swirl or honey lavender or toasted coconut. The options are plentiful! And when that vanilla story does drop (as they have, and will), it'll be unexpected, and - hopefully - delightful.

(ALSO: Bi-Rite Creamery FTW!)

Another thing about vanilla is that it's the best selling flavor. It doesn't accomplish this because people don't like vanilla. Pomegranate is good but you can't beat vanilla for accompaniment to apple pie.

My favorite weird flavor is feta, pine nuts, and honey. Sadly the local place that made it closed.

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DKT

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Reply #42 on: October 21, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
Another thing about vanilla is that it's the best selling flavor. It doesn't accomplish this because people don't like vanilla. Pomegranate is good but you can't beat vanilla for accompaniment to apple pie.

My favorite weird flavor is feta, pine nuts, and honey. Sadly the local place that made it closed.

It is a best selling flavor, and I don't mind it every once in a while. But the thing about best-selling is you can get it anywhere. Grocery stores, drug stores, fast food dives, restaurants, and, of course, ice cream parlors.

I'd rather go to the ice cream parlor, and have all the different options.

(Doing the feedback segment for this thread, and thinking: Somebody needs to do a fungus ice cream now!  ;D )


Umbrageofsnow

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Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 01:14:27 AM
(ALSO: Bi-Rite Creamery FTW!)

Bi-Rite is pretty good I suppose. I'm more of a Humphry Slocombe guy.  Sorry, I don't have much to say about this story at this time (other than it is too long, and I still haven't managed to listen to it because I can't fit it on a CD, even after editing out the Intro and Outro), but I felt the need to jump in with my ice cream opinions. So  :P

I love fungus though, so I predict my rating for this story will be 4/5.



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Reply #44 on: October 22, 2012, 05:19:49 AM

Bi-Rite is pretty good I suppose. I'm more of a Humphry Slocombe guy.

Oooooooh. Will have to check that place out next time I'm in SF. Thanks!


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Reply #45 on: October 22, 2012, 05:59:08 AM
The pairing of "Humphrey" with "Slocombe" has caused me to enter a fugue in which all I can say is "Menswear" in my manly voice.



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Reply #46 on: October 22, 2012, 11:37:08 AM
The pairing of "Humphrey" with "Slocombe" has caused me to enter a fugue in which all I can say is "Menswear" in my manly voice.

Nice. I had managed to completely purge memories of that show from my mind until this post freed them to run, barefoot, giggling, and making bad puns, through my memory.

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Reply #47 on: October 24, 2012, 05:15:04 PM
So, you might get a vanilla. But you might also get salted caramel or pomegranate or brown sugar with caramel swirl or honey lavender or toasted coconut. The options are plentiful! And when that vanilla story does drop (as they have, and will), it'll be unexpected, and - hopefully - delightful.

Now THAT is a much better flavor description.  I like variety.  I like lots of different foods, some for textures, some for consistencies, some for sweet or salty or bitter flavors.  Vanilla sometimes, with many other flavors other times is much more appealing to me.  :)

It is a best selling flavor, and I don't mind it every once in a while. But the thing about best-selling is you can get it anywhere. Grocery stores, drug stores, fast food dives, restaurants, and, of course, ice cream parlors.

True enough.  I can't argue with that.  I like novelty, so if given the choice between something I can buy anywhere, and something new, I will generally pick the latter.  But I still don't get why vanilla is always the butt of the line.  Chocolate is more available than vanilla, but I never heard "chocolate" being used as synonymous for "commonplace" or "dull".  *shrug*.  The same for caramel.

When I was in Killarney, Ireland in June for vacation, there was an ice cream parlor that had awesome variety.  We ate there at least once a day.  I think the favorite that I found was a scoop of sea salt ice cream with a scoop of honeycomb ice cream.



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Reply #48 on: November 30, 2012, 05:22:56 PM
It's too cold to talk about ice cream. Brrr...

Anyway I like this story. I love stories about weird cities. Found the fungus and mushrooms creepy, but I was more intrigued by the history of "The Silence", and the main character's need to recreate the dining room of his missing relatives and use that as an office. I would love to read it for a fuller effect, but this was nice and creepy.

It sort of reminded me of a Sailor Moon/Ranma 1/2 fanfic I read a long time ago called "The Shadow Chronicles", which has the Sailor Soldiers living in this dark, wild city that has a haunting history and all these artifacts. The fanfic was never finished...but the world the writer created was amazing. I would pay him to finish it, but it's a fanfic, so... ::shrug::
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:27:16 PM by LaShawn »

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Umbrageofsnow

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Reply #49 on: November 30, 2012, 06:50:53 PM
Sorry, I don't have much to say about this story at this time (other than it is too long, and I still haven't managed to listen to it because I can't fit it on a CD, even after editing out the Intro and Outro), but I felt the need to jump in with my ice cream opinions. So  :P

I love fungus though, so I predict my rating for this story will be 4/5.

Oh! LaShawn's post brought this up on my "new replies" and I remembered I wanted to comment on it after eventually listening to it.

I quite enjoyed the story, the fungusy fantasy world was really neat, and while I wouldn't want a sequel, I'd love to see another story exploring this world. And I'm usually the "eh, don't wear it out" guy.

I'm really glad the blindness of the wife came into play at the end, and it was used to great horror effect. Loved the mystery of the sounds from the cage, loved the fungus people that just appeared. I wonder if the cage was a trap, or just a pet left behind. I wonder if they're at war with humanity, or just good at what they do?  Anyway, this was my third favourite Podcastle for the four months or so around it. I'll be more specific when I organize my votes for the end of the year, but I really dug this one.

My too long comment is merely for the logistics of me listening to it, I did not think the story needed anything cut.   Unlike many modern fantasy stories.