Author Topic: We want your feedback! (Read 26778 times)

P.C. Haring · **on:** July 11, 2013, 02:14:34 AM

Hello all you beautiful forum users, listeners, readers, sci-fi, fantasy, horror addicts, out there!

I'm awfully quiet over here and if you don't recognize me, well I'm not surprised. I'm P.C. Haring, the accounting money monkey for EA as well as the publisher. I work a lot on that pesky business side of things in the proverbial front office.

We're working on a few things on the background while the editors keep producing the content you've come to know and love. But while we do that, we want to hear from you about our web sites. We're looking at how the actual web sites present to you all and while we see some things... we don't see them all and there are some things that we can not see because we've just looked at it too many times to recognize it.

So, please tell us what you think of the .org websites! What do you like? What do you not like? What's broken that we don't know about? Is something not formatting properly in your web browser of choice? Does it look freaking epic awesome and never be touched?

Please let us know. We want your constructive feedback. Tell us the good and the bad! Help us improve the sites for you all!

Thanks!

Fenrix · **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2013, 03:04:19 AM

When I link to a story on facebook (or other social media of choice) I want an image to pop up with that podcast. The closest PseudoPod has is a PodDisc picture. Also probably not linking to PodDisc would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the money wrangling, P.C.!

matweller · **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2013, 01:35:01 PM

Quote from: Fenrix on July 11, 2013, 03:04:19 AM

When I link to a story on facebook (or other social media of choice) I want an image to pop up with that podcast. The closest PseudoPod has is a PodDisc picture. Also probably not linking to PodDisc would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the money wrangling, P.C.!

A good call and a perfect example of the kind of stuff PC's looking for! And in this case, a 1-minute fix that could make a lot of positive difference.

lowky · **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2013, 03:36:08 PM

I will be honest, I don't recall the last time I went to any of the websites. The podcasts show up in iTunes, and I listen to them. Not saying there aren't reasons to hit up the websites, I just usually don't. Not sure what "added value" could be included in the websites that I don't get either through the podcast feed or the forums. Forums I am usually on a couple times per day. Not sure if there is a way to better link the two of those to drive traffic or not. I have been a lazy fan and should probably share more stories I like, again getting them in my iTunes feed, I don't think about it.

lowky · **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2013, 03:48:23 PM

I looked at Pseudopod.org and I hade a thought, and I will go with someone we link to, to show my example. when you look at andersmanga's website there is a top banner of links (see linked screenshot below). I don't know if something like this could be done, but I would think it might bring the donate, sister podcasts and the forums more front and center.

edited to add:and looking at the other sites, it is already like that with Escape Pod. I realize the sites are each their own division, but if the layout were standardized between the 3 it might make everyone's job easier, especially the code monkeys that maintain the sites, and would show a more unified front to the world at large.

eytanz · **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2013, 04:07:16 PM

I don't like the way Escapepod's front page mixes content, with some entries being podcasts and some of them being, essentially, Josh Roseman's review blog. I actually really like Josh's reviews, but for me there is a real confusion of branding here. I really think the Escapepod.org site should be limited to the podcast - and maybe there should be a spinoff site for reviews and blog entries. As it is, I feel that this setup does a disservice the podcast (since it's harder to find old episodes), and it probably does a disservice to Josh, because I don't know that anyone has any reason to expect to find his material there.

P.C. Haring · **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2013, 10:46:41 PM

All great comments so far and good points all around. Please keep them coming, and please do not be offended if you don't recieve a direct reply from me or one of the staff. I promise you that everything you say here is being read and forwarded to our new Web Maven.

I'm off to go swim through the money bin a la Scrooge McDuck!

Fenrix · **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2013, 01:48:38 AM

Quote from: eytanz on July 11, 2013, 04:07:16 PM

I don't like the way Escapepod's front page mixes content, with some entries being podcasts and some of them being, essentially, Josh Roseman's review blog. I actually really like Josh's reviews, but for me there is a real confusion of branding here. I really think the Escapepod.org site should be limited to the podcast - and maybe there should be a spinoff site for reviews and blog entries. As it is, I feel that this setup does a disservice the podcast (since it's harder to find old episodes), and it probably does a disservice to Josh, because I don't know that anyone has any reason to expect to find his material there.

Maybe escapeartists.org combines the feeds of all three plus Josh's blog and maybe some other content? Shawn has some of the most fantastic book reviews, and anything horror relevant would be worth pushing out. Then have all the individual feeds just handle the stories?

Quote from: P.C. Haring on July 11, 2013, 10:46:41 PM

All great comments so far and good points all around. Please keep them coming, and please do not be offended if you don't recieve a direct reply from me or one of the staff. I promise you that everything you say here is being read and forwarded to our new Web Maven.

I'm off to go swim through the money bin a la Scrooge McDuck!

Moritz · **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2013, 11:02:44 AM

When I downloaded the complete backcatalogues, with Escape Pod I had difficulties to spot that some of the months had two pages (the "next page" button is not that easy to spot). Also a sidebar with all past months a la Pseudopod and Podcastle makes navigating easier than the pop-up thing Escape Pod has, also it instantly shows how much is already out there.

Sgarre1 · **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2013, 03:48:08 PM

Al and I just thought up the fact that perhaps we could have a "Testimonials" page where we can gather (and add to) any nice quotes that people of note have made regarding the EA casts - it would be a good resource for when we need pull quotes quickly for an ad or whatnot.

Unblinking · **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2013, 08:49:34 PM

Quote from: P.C. Haring on July 11, 2013, 02:14:34 AM

I'm awfully quiet over here and if you don't recognize me, well I'm not surprised. I'm P.C. Haring, the accounting money monkey for EA as well as the publisher. I work a lot on that pesky business side of things in the proverbial front office.

Hi Paul! I know who you are. Admittedly, the fact that I've always been paid on time for EA sales is a plus. And you've bought me a Guinness, which also helps.

Quote from: Fenrix on July 11, 2013, 03:04:19 AM

When I link to a story on facebook (or other social media of choice) I want an image to pop up with that podcast. The closest PseudoPod has is a PodDisc picture. Also probably not linking to PodDisc would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the money wrangling, P.C.!

I second this. All it would take would be a small image of the magazine's logo in the sidebar. Escape Pod already has a pretty decent one that works with Facebook. But Pseudopod and Podcastle don't. Podcastle actually has a nice perfect-sized logo of the OTHER TWO but not of itself.

Quote from: eytanz on July 11, 2013, 04:07:16 PM

I don't like the way Escapepod's front page mixes content, with some entries being podcasts and some of them being, essentially, Josh Roseman's review blog. I actually really like Josh's reviews, but for me there is a real confusion of branding here. I really think the Escapepod.org site should be limited to the podcast - and maybe there should be a spinoff site for reviews and blog entries. As it is, I feel that this setup does a disservice the podcast (since it's harder to find old episodes), and it probably does a disservice to Josh, because I don't know that anyone has any reason to expect to find his material there.

And I strongly second this as well. It doesn't bother me that Escape Pod sponsor's josh's reviews, though I think they'd be more fitting on a blog or a nonfiction magazine. But I don't like them on the main page, because (oh no, a numbered list, you all knew this was coming):
1. The podcast episodes of the EA casts contain almost no audio nonfiction. There is the occasional exception, with an interview, or the Podcastle spotlights, or the movie reviews that Alasdair used to do, and etc, but those are very occasional features. The EA publications are audio publications primarily and having one of the sites heavily covered in text-only nonfiction just really doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the site's aesthetic.
2. There have been times when, due to a particularly heavy flow of nonfiction, there wasn't even a single audio fiction episode on the front page of Escape Pod, which is the premier SF podcast. I think this happened, if I recall correctly, when there was a big nonfiction series of Star Trek TNG.
3. I don't know about anyone else, but personally I don't read the nonfiction. I listen to podcasts so heavily because if I have the time to sit in place in front of a computer long enough to read a lengthy nonfiction article, I'd rather be writing. Podcasts are great for playing in the background when I don't have free eyes for reading.

Other than that, I'm generally pretty happy with the sites. A little more dynamic content wouldn't be amiss. I like word clouds. Having something that's different each time the page's loaded would be snazzy, like if each story had an author headshot with a link to their website and it would load one of them up at random each time the page is loaded. But these are all little flashbang things that are far from vital but might be kind of neat.

Fenrix · **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2013, 10:37:47 PM

Quote from: Sgarre1 on July 16, 2013, 03:48:08 PM

Al and I just thought up the fact that perhaps we could have a "Testimonials" page where we can gather (and add to) any nice quotes that people of note have made regarding the EA casts - it would be a good resource for when we need pull quotes quickly for an ad or whatnot.

Always have your Wil Wheaton quotes handy.

Max e^{i pi} · **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2013, 10:29:27 AM

Quote from: P.C. Haring on July 11, 2013, 02:14:34 AM

I'm P.C. Haring, the accounting money monkey for EA as well as the publisher. I work a lot on that pesky business side of things in the proverbial front office.

Hi! I know who you are! I listened to Cybrosis way-back-when, and therefore heard your voice in my head reading your posts (it was creepy).

Anyway, about the sites. This is mostly a backend issue, but I wanted to bulk download a whole bunch of EP episodes, and it's difficult.
First, there is the fact that it's a blog, so archives are ordered by month, not by content.
Second there's eytanz's issue where the site mixes content.
To solve those issues I tried writing a script that will go to the EP server and download audio files, but the directory structure is not sane.
So, the solution I thought of was to reorganize the database into directories for year>month, and to have them searchable from a single Archives page, with links to episodes audio files AND blog posts in numerical order. (You don't actually have to reorganize the server files, you can just make some clever queries to your database).
Basically: I want a single Archives page where I can browse through all the episodes, OR blog posts and search them for keywords. This way, those of us who didn't sell our soul to Apple and don't have iTunes can still access old episodes in a sane and orderly fashion.

Keep up the good work!

matweller · **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2013, 02:23:33 PM

There's the wiki page...

Max e^{i pi} · **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2013, 05:11:57 PM

What wiki page?

There's another thing to fix: if there's a wiki, link to it in an obvious way.

eytanz · **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2013, 05:42:06 PM

Quote from: Max e^{i pi} on August 04, 2013, 05:11:57 PM

What wiki page?

There's another thing to fix: if there's a wiki, link to it in an obvious way.

Escape Pod doesn't have a wiki; Mat was referring to the wikipedia page for EP which has a list of all the episodes in order:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Escape_Pod_episodes

Max e^{i pi} · **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2013, 05:52:44 PM

Well, that's a nice list. But not really useful for downloading episodes from.
Steps:
1. Learn that EA has a wiki.
2. Find the wiki.
3. Locate the list of episodes in the wiki.
4. Click a link to an episode post.
5. Look for the teeny tiny download button in the episode post and click it.
6. Download.

That's a lot of steps.
Also, step 5 is difficult because the links are not always in the same place in the post. The Download link is at the end of the line, and depending on the length of the episode title, it may be at the beginning of a new line, or somewhere else. Compare for episodes 404, 405 and 406.

To summarize, I think we need two improvements:
1. A sane Archives page with direct downloads of audio files, as well as links to the episode posts.
2. A consistent layout for all buttons, specifically the Download link, that makes them more visible (read: larger) and easier to find.

Max e^{i pi} · **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2013, 06:15:15 PM

Um... sorry if I came off a bit cross and whinny in my last post, that was totally not my intent.
My intent is to give honest feedback that includes a good description of the problem and a possible solution.

matweller · **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2013, 11:49:16 PM

The wiki is linked in the post for every episode (at least for 2013, since I've been making the site updates) and mentioned in 2 or more forum posts for anyone that wants to search (that's how I initially found out about it, actually). I can put the link in the ID3 tags of the MP3 files too, I guess.

Fenrix · **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2013, 03:48:27 PM

Quote from: Fenrix on July 11, 2013, 03:04:19 AM

When I link to a story on facebook (or other social media of choice) I want an image to pop up with that podcast. The closest PseudoPod has is a PodDisc picture. Also probably not linking to PodDisc would be worthwhile.

I like the cleaner look for the pages, but there's still no PP logo for linking. However, the parsec finalist one is a really nice upgrade, so we're better off than we were before.

Kaa · **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2013, 02:07:11 PM

Quote from: Unblinking on July 16, 2013, 08:49:34 PM

if each story had an author headshot with a link to their website and it would load one of them up at random each time the page is loaded. But these are all little flashbang things that are far from vital but might be kind of neat.

Oh, this. It would be nice to have, but not a must have.

I like all the suggestions about making the back catalog easily accessible. I haven't had the issue because I've been a subscriber from the very beginning...of all three podcasts...but it does make it easier for newcomers.

One thing that is a bit off-putting about Pseudopod...the very first text you see on the site when you load it is this:

Welcome to Pseudopod!
October 23rd, 2006 12:30 am

When I load a site and the "most recent post" (which those top positions are usually reserved for) is more than seven years out of date, it makes me think no one is updating anymore. EscapePod and PodCastle both have the most recent episode in that coveted, top position.

And this is just an aesthetic thing, but...EscapePod and PodCastle are both much "cleaner-looking" than PseudoPod because the background image (with the swirly, cloudy pattern) is a bit busy.

And this is my biggest pet issuer: I want to contribute -- and in fact, used to contribute $5/month per podcast -- but I loathe PayPal after some shenanigans they have pulled. I'd still love to give you money, however, but I can't do that easily without using PayPal. If there were just some other way in addition to PayPal? (Amazon leaps to mind.)

flintknapper · **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2013, 06:42:19 PM

I guess I differ from what has been said here so far. I like the reviews on escapepod, but I agree it does make older episodes harder to find. Also it is hard in the sense that Escapepod does it and pseudopod and podcastle really don't (I think they did in the past, but I could be wrong).

Something I enjoy immensely in the information on the week's author. One of the primary reasons I listen to the podcasts is to discover authors I do not know about. If I dig a story, the first thing I do is go to your website and hit the link for the author if one is provided. Now obviously that is not a suggestion, you guys do that already, but it is a feature which makes my experience more enjoyable. So please do not get rid of it.

Kaa · **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2013, 03:47:24 AM

Oh, man. Sometimes stuff just falls into place.

https://subbable.com/faq

It uses Amazon, not PayPal. Take a look!

DKT · **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2013, 06:41:14 PM

Quote from: Kaa on August 17, 2013, 03:47:24 AM

Oh, man. Sometimes stuff just falls into place.

https://subbable.com/faq

It uses Amazon, not PayPal. Take a look!

Sweet! Thanks, Kaa!

Kaa · **Reply #24 on:** August 17, 2013, 06:48:10 PM

It's still in beta, but I think Escape Artists fits all their criteria.

Devoted135 · **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2013, 09:19:06 PM

Quote from: Kaa on August 17, 2013, 03:47:24 AM

Oh, man. Sometimes stuff just falls into place.

https://subbable.com/faq

It uses Amazon, not PayPal. Take a look!

Hey, I know of those guys! They are AWESOME!

Kaa · **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2013, 09:26:36 PM

The Green brothers? Yes, they are. I subscribe to pretty much everything they touch on YouTube.

matweller · **Reply #27 on:** August 18, 2013, 03:28:08 PM

I have been a fan of Flattr for similar reasons:
http://matweller.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/best-new-media-flattr-com/

But they've never made it work in the US. I wish it would. I want to contribute to online content creators, but I only have $X per month that I can afford to do that for, and that's a fact of my life, no matter how many worthy new media artists I want to give to. It's how I pay for TV, why don't new media stars want my money too?

Dem · **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2013, 12:59:23 PM

I get my feed via email then I come to the site (EP) to play the audio and read-alonga-narrator. I have very few needs with regard to layout or content inclusion/exclusion but I do think the graphics could do with a serious update on all three sites, and I'd love to see the last of that ruddy baseball masquerading as a planet!

Kaa · **Reply #29 on:** August 24, 2013, 01:14:08 PM

Quote from: Dem on August 24, 2013, 12:59:23 PM

ruddy baseball masquerading as a planet!

That is actually an escape pod, a la 2001: A Space Odyssey, not a planet. But it could be made to look...more robotic, maybe.

Max e^{i pi} · **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2013, 07:18:33 AM

Quote from: Dem on August 24, 2013, 12:59:23 PM

(...) and I'd love to see the last of that ruddy baseball masquerading as a planet!

Cannot. Unsee.

Dem · **Reply #31 on:** August 25, 2013, 08:14:23 AM

Quote from: Kaa on August 24, 2013, 01:14:08 PM

Quote from: Dem on August 24, 2013, 12:59:23 PM
ruddy baseball masquerading as a planet!

That is actually an escape pod, a la 2001: A Space Odyssey, not a planet. But it could be made to look...more robotic, maybe.

Really? I've never EVER seen that - just that damn baseball! Must be something about iconography - the yellowish tinge and the number triggered an altogether different schema for me than the one intended!
Still don't like it though despite its new provenance

matweller · **Reply #32 on:** August 26, 2013, 12:50:15 AM

I always thought it was some Lego(tm) piece with those four circles on it. I've been waiting for the cease and decist letter from the first time I saw it.

AncientWire · **Reply #33 on:** September 03, 2013, 04:38:28 PM

In the intro to one of the podcasts, there was a book mentioned. When I came home and looked up the podcast online, it wasn't mentioned in the notes. Putting things like that in the notes with a link to Amazon (or where ever) would be convenient for listeners, and if it is an associate link, would make you folks a bit of money as well.

Thanks so much for the stories!

Mouseneb · **Reply #34 on:** September 04, 2013, 09:40:46 AM

Forgive me if these have been suggested before, but...

Escapepod donate button:

Fuel the Pod!

Podcastle donate button:

Provision the Castle!
Stock the Castle!

Something along those lines

danooli · **Reply #35 on:** September 08, 2013, 07:55:47 PM

Quote from: Fenrix on July 11, 2013, 03:04:19 AM

When I link to a story on facebook (or other social media of choice) I want an image to pop up with that podcast. The closest PseudoPod has is a PodDisc picture. Also probably not linking to PodDisc would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the money wrangling, P.C.!

That's been bugging me for a while now

quasidoza · **Reply #36 on:** September 22, 2013, 03:40:23 PM

EP and PC could do with favicon for when in the browser tabs (as could this forum). Or is it just my Opera having a hissy fit?

PodCastle podcast information links to the website for info about the story. Could it also have a link to the comments page on the forum? Might encourage more to contribute on impulse (for those listening via phone or tablet), especially if it's mentioned at the end that a link is in the show notes to the comments.

For the websites, perhaps you could do groups of podcasts. Christmas specials, Halloween, 4th July, Superhero stories, Best children stories, best intorduction to golden age of science fiction, etc.

Also what about merchandising? Cups, T-Shirts, adult toys, (Steve Eley style) hats, mouse mats, the usual things?

Note:
I always thought EP logo was a mini-deathstar thing ... now it is forever more a baseball!

Dem · **Reply #37 on:** September 22, 2013, 07:44:34 PM

Quote from: quasidoza on September 22, 2013, 03:40:23 PM

Note:
I always thought EP logo was a mini-deathstar thing ... now it is forever more a baseball!

Oops, sorry!

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #38 on:** October 03, 2013, 08:03:56 PM

I don't know if this can be handled by a tweak of the site, or it's a problem with Google (but I suspect the former, since it only seems to be an issue for Pseudopod, not EP or PC).

Yesterday, I was trying to find a couple of Pseudopod episodes via Google. (Okay, yes, I was trying to find all of the episodes I've narrated.

)

Anyway, for some reason, Google won't display individual story entries (and their titles), only archive pages containing the words. So, I searched "read by Wilson Fowlie" site:pseudopod.org and was presented with pages from the archives, rather than the individual episode entries.

(Also, because the archive pages (e.g. "Page 3") keep changing as new stories are added, the Google versions of the archive pages don't necessarily match the actual archive pages, which means Google is linking me to a page that doesn't even contain the stories I'm looking for any more!)

However, when I did the same thing for Escape Pod and Podcastle, I got links to the individual episodes.

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #39 on:** October 03, 2013, 08:07:53 PM

In a similar vein:

On the EscapePod site, I'd like to see the links to readers and authors updated. There's "All stories by [author]" and "All stories read by [reader]" text on many posts (all of them since the site redesign?), but many aren't actual links. They should either be made into links or be taken down.

Personally, I'd like to see the links fixed. I'd also like to see a similar feature on the other two sites.

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2013, 08:13:00 PM

Thirdly:

I volunteer to help in the effort to update the websites. My own organization's site has recently (well, a year ago) changed to use Wordpress, and I'm somewhat involved in its maintenance (though mostly for a part of the site that's only open to our own members, not the public site you see in that link).

I'd mentioned to Dave that I was interested in helping tweak the Podcastle site (mostly to address the issue that Fenrix mentioned at the top of this thread - not getting a Podcastle image when I link a story to Facebook has been bugging me for some time).

Dave kindly got me an access to the site, but it initially wasn't high enough access for me to do what I hoped. Then, when it was improved, it was at a time when I was very busy with my chorus and I couldn't look at it. And since then, it just fell off my radar, and I feel bad about that, which is why I'm re-offering to be whatever help I can.

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2013, 08:20:14 PM

One more, only tangentially related to the sites themselves:

I'd like to see all three 'casts have a bigger presence on social media, particularly Facebook and Google+. I feel that you should at least have a Facebook fan page for each 'cast. At the moment, if you 'Like' any of them on Facebook, the page you get consists of an auto-generated page with content from Wikipedia. You guys deserve better.

Again, if you decide that's something you'd like to do, I volunteer to administer the Facebook and G+ pages for Podcastle (i.e. post episodes and whatever other content is deemed appropriate/desirable by the editors).

I'm unable to contribute money to Escape Artists, so all I can offer is my time and such abilities as are useful (which is one of the reasons I'm so happy to contribute my narrations as well).

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #42 on:** October 03, 2013, 08:45:40 PM

Just thought of another one, but it's for The Future.

When Discourse becomes generally available - not for several months, possibly more than a year - I hope you'll consider moving the forum to that platform.

(For an example of what it can look like, see the comment threads at Boing Boing.)

danooli · **Reply #43 on:** October 03, 2013, 09:11:25 PM

Wilson, man, you're just awesome.

Sgarre1 · **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2013, 09:30:34 PM

Quote

I'd like to see all three 'casts have a bigger presence on social media, particularly Facebook and Google+. I feel that you should at least have a Facebook fan page for each 'cast. At the moment, if you 'Like' any of them on Facebook, the page you get consists of an auto-generated page with content from Wikipedia. You guys deserve better.

There is a PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS page, which I post to once a week if not more frequently, including links to Alasdair's interviews, etc. The page you're talking about is an "interest" page that you can "like" as an interest. At the bottom are the PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS and ESCAPE POD LISTENERS pages, which you also have to go and "like"

I know nothing about Google+, sadly.

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #45 on:** October 03, 2013, 11:49:16 PM

Quote from: danooli on October 03, 2013, 09:11:25 PM

Wilson, man, you're just awesome.

Thanks!

But, if that's true, it's only because I'm inspired by the awesomeness of the EA folks. EA has been good to me, providing me many hours of great stories to listen to, and giving me a chance to learn to be a decent story narrator, and I'd like to return the favour if I can.

Quote from: Sgarre1 on October 03, 2013, 09:30:34 PM

There is a PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS page, which I post to once a week if not more frequently, including links to Alasdair's interviews, etc. The page you're talking about is an "interest" page that you can "like" as an interest. At the bottom are the PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS and ESCAPE POD LISTENERS pages, which you also have to go and "like"

Those are actually Groups, rather than Pages (capitalized because they're Facebook things, not just general versions of them). The differences between Groups and Pages include:
- a Group is about something (a shared interest of some kind), but doesn't necessarily include that thing (you could start up a Burning Man discussion group, even if you've never been, but Facebook would only let someone from Burning Man create and run their Page);
- a Page represents something or someone; this could also be a shared interest, but is more usually an entity of some kind, like a corporation or a famous person or even an idea, if someone is willing to act as that idea's representative (e.g. the Being Liberal page whose stuff I often share);
- a Group is something you join;
- a Page is something you "Like";
- in a Group, all members can contribute to the content (though in the case of something like yours, I expect only a few usually do. Also, group admins can - I think? - restrict certain members from posting; I'm not in a lot of groups, so I'm not sure exactly how they work. I just know they differ, logically and semantically, from Pages);
- on a Page, the entity itself (usually in the form of one or more Page administrators) produces the content for the benefit of the fans ("Like"rs), and it gets posted on their news feed (I don't know if group content goes to people's feeds or not).

I would like to be able to "Like" a Page for Podcastle and Escape Pod (and maybe Pseudopod - I like reading for you, but I'm not a horror fan myself), the way I can (but wouldn't) "Like" Coca-Cola or Target or I Fucking Love Science or Being Liberal or The Maple Leaf Singers (okay, those last two I do "Like" - and I put that last one in there to show that even a small entity can have a page - but then, we aren't big enough to have an "Interest" page that we would apparently have to compete with).

Perhaps a listeners' Group for each podcast is what EA will decide it wants to go with, rather than a page (though the two aren't mutually exclusive). However, I'd rather have Pages, myself.

ETA: Missing conjunction.

Dem · **Reply #46 on:** October 04, 2013, 08:16:59 AM

Quote from: Wilson Fowlie on October 03, 2013, 11:49:16 PM

Quote from: danooli on October 03, 2013, 09:11:25 PM
Wilson, man, you're just awesome.

Thanks!

But, if that's true, it's only because I'm inspired by the awesomeness of the EA folks. EA has been good to me, providing me many hours of great stories to listen to, and giving me a chance to learn to be a decent story narrator, and I'd like to return the favour if I can.

Quote from: Sgarre1 on October 03, 2013, 09:30:34 PM
There is a PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS page, which I post to once a week if not more frequently, including links to Alasdair's interviews, etc. The page you're talking about is an "interest" page that you can "like" as an interest. At the bottom are the PSEUDOPOD LISTENERS and ESCAPE POD LISTENERS pages, which you also have to go and "like"

Those are actually Groups, rather than Pages (capitalized because they're Facebook things, not just general versions of them). The differences between Groups and Pages include:
- a Group is about something (a shared interest of some kind), but doesn't necessarily include that thing (you could start up a Burning Man discussion group, even if you've never been, but Facebook would only let someone from Burning Man create and run their Page);
- a Page represents something or someone; this could also be a shared interest, but is more usually an entity of some kind, like a corporation or a famous person or even an idea, if someone is willing to act as that idea's representative (e.g. the Being Liberal page whose stuff I often share);
- a Group is something you join;
- a Page is something you "Like";
- in a Group, all members can contribute to the content (though in the case of something like yours, I expect only a few usually do. Also, group admins can - I think? - restrict certain members from posting; I'm not in a lot of groups, so I'm not sure exactly how they work. I just know they differ, logically and semantically, from Pages);
- on a Page, the entity itself (usually in the form of one or more Page administrators) produces the content for the benefit of the fans ("Like"rs), and it gets posted on their news feed (I don't know if group content goes to people's feeds or not).

I would like to be able to "Like" a Page for Podcastle and Escape Pod (and maybe Pseudopod - I like reading for you, but I'm not a horror fan myself), the way I can (but wouldn't) "Like" Coca-Cola or Target or I Fucking Love Science or Being Liberal The Maple Leaf Singers (okay, those last two I do "Like" - and I put that last one in there to show that even a small entity can have a page - but then, we aren't big enough to have an "Interest" page that we would apparently have to compete with).

Perhaps a listeners' Group for each podcast is what EA will decide it wants to go with, rather than a page (though the two aren't mutually exclusive). However, I'd rather have Pages, myself.

That's a brilliant outline, Wilson. I'm keeping it for when I have to explain (sometimes to myself!). My problem with FB groups for EA is that comments appear in much smaller boxes so that the threads for the kind of extensive debate EA-ers prefer would involve a lot of scrolling and make it difficult to keep track of who was responding to what. Also, quotes would require copy/paste - if you could find the comment you want to quote. And everyone would have to join FB which I know is close to the truth now but there are still people who believe that resistance is not yet futile. Otherwise - what else is there, I wonder?

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #47 on:** October 04, 2013, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: Dem on October 04, 2013, 08:16:59 AM

My problem with FB groups for EA is that comments appear in much smaller boxes so that the threads for the kind of extensive debate EA-ers prefer would involve a lot of scrolling and make it difficult to keep track of who was responding to what. Also, quotes would require copy/paste - if you could find the comment you want to quote. And everyone would have to join FB which I know is close to the truth now but there are still people who believe that resistance is not yet futile. Otherwise - what else is there, I wonder?

Well, there's this forum, which I think is better than either, at least in its intent, in part because it doesn't require assimilation into the Facebook Collective. (That said, the forum software, which was probably the best available when it was set up, is getting a little old and creaky, which is why I suggested looking into the upcoming release of Discourse, above.)

As for me, I would use Facebook to promote EA podcasts to my Facebook friends who aren't already listeners. That doesn't preclude a listeners' Group on Facebook in any way, it's just a different venue for discussion and a different purpose. But a Page allows posts that can be shared outside the group. (Another thing I don't know about groups is whether posts from within the group can be shared outside it.)

Dem · **Reply #48 on:** October 04, 2013, 04:20:20 PM

Quote from: Wilson Fowlie on October 04, 2013, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: Dem on October 04, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
My problem with FB groups for EA is that comments appear in much smaller boxes so that the threads for the kind of extensive debate EA-ers prefer would involve a lot of scrolling and make it difficult to keep track of who was responding to what. Also, quotes would require copy/paste - if you could find the comment you want to quote. And everyone would have to join FB which I know is close to the truth now but there are still people who believe that resistance is not yet futile. Otherwise - what else is there, I wonder?

Well, there's this forum, which I think is better than either, at least in its intent, in part because it doesn't require assimilation into the Facebook Collective. (That said, the forum software, which was probably the best available when it was set up, is getting a little old and creaky, which is why I suggested looking into the upcoming release of Discourse, above.)

As for me, I would use Facebook to promote EA podcasts to my Facebook friends who aren't already listeners. That doesn't preclude a listeners' Group on Facebook in any way, it's just a different venue for discussion and a different purpose. But a Page allows posts that can be shared outside the group. (Another thing I don't know about groups is whether posts from within the group can be shared outside it.)

The clunkiness of this platform is something I've mentioned before but there didn't seem to be anything better at the time. I don't know Discourse but if it does what this does only more 21st century-ly, that would be a winner. And no, I haven't been able to share in-group FB posts to my own timeline for others to see. Daily Science Fiction use FB and the comments there are numerically small and quite brief. Every Day Fiction does too but that seems mostly populated by EDF writers so it's serving a different purpose. EDF has a Google+ account too which replicates the topics but not the conversations. And now my head hurts ...

BTW - did this conversation come up now because there's a move planned or did it just emerge as a bit of wishful thinking?

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #49 on:** October 04, 2013, 04:50:49 PM

Quote from: Dem on October 04, 2013, 04:20:20 PM

BTW - did this conversation come up now because there's a move planned or did it just emerge as a bit of wishful thinking?

Not sure which part of the conversation you're referring to.

If you mean moving this forum, that was a suggestion I made. However, I doubt any such move is even being considered at this time (and I rather hope not), since they're concentrating on the main websites for the podcasts. And in fact, it wasn't my intent to spur such a move immediately, but simply to plant the seed of an idea for the future, as perhaps the (or at least a) next logical step once the website renovation is complete.

Dem · **Reply #50 on:** October 04, 2013, 06:35:01 PM

Quote from: Wilson Fowlie on October 04, 2013, 04:50:49 PM

Quote from: Dem on October 04, 2013, 04:20:20 PM
BTW - did this conversation come up now because there's a move planned or did it just emerge as a bit of wishful thinking?

Not sure which part of the conversation you're referring to.

If you mean moving this forum, that was a suggestion I made. However, I doubt any such move is even being considered at this time (and I rather hope not), since they're concentrating on the main websites for the podcasts. And in fact, it wasn't my intent to spur such a move immediately, but simply to plant the seed of an idea for the future, as perhaps the (or at least a) next logical step once the website renovation is complete.

That's the one - just wondered if I'd parachuted into something and missed the beginning. I think seeding the idea is right, but until there's a better solution things can stay as they are for me. Updating the websites is much more of a priority because they're front facing. This is behind the scenes for people who like to shove the scenery around a bit

SonofSpermcube · **Reply #51 on:** October 05, 2013, 12:45:11 PM

Re: it being awfully quiet: That might be fixable.

The forum links aren't in any obvious permanent location. The ideal place to put a link to the forum would be at the very top of the page, in the nav bar. Before my browser started autocompleting it for me, I ctrl-Fed it. Make the forums easier to find and more people will use them.

Another thing you could do is consolidate the discussions. I go to a forum and find two new posts in the past week, I leave and I don't come back, and the forum stays dead. I've seen this happen in online classes, too, with teachers dividing discussion up so much that people don't find anything to do. (AND THIS WAS LIBRARIANS DOING IT WTF...) You might consider consolidating the genre discussion subforums and the about subforums into one, rather than one for each podcast. Or you might just have a single subforum for each podcast. The idea is that someone coming to comment on this week's show sees the thread about how Alasdair has the best voice or whatever and jump on that one, too; while if it's shut away in another forum they'd never see it.

The only ones that have a volume of threads high enough to really warrant being separate are the episode comments forums, but even then the volume of posts is manageable if they're consolidated.

I'd set it up kind of like this:

Escape Artists:
- Escape Pod Episode Comments
- Podcastle Episode Comments
- Pseudopod Episode Comments
- Escape Artists Consolidated Podcast Metadiscussion

Misc:
- Genre Discussion
- Writing
- Contests
- General Podcasting Discussion

Administrivia/Support consolidated into a single subforum.

Finally, if this isn't already the case, having the text of the story in every instance where it's possible to do so would be nice. I sometimes inflict these stories on my English-studying wife, and having the text helps a lot.

So basically:
Big fat forum links at the top of the page
Consolidate the forums into no more than about 1/2 what you've got now.
More story text, if possible

Scattercat · **Reply #52 on:** October 06, 2013, 02:37:41 AM

Quote from: SonofSpermcube on October 05, 2013, 12:45:11 PM

Consolidate the forums into no more than about 1/2 what you've got now.

This is a very solid idea which I also support and endorse. I know how pleasant it is to sort things into small categories, but there are times when that impulse is less helpful than others.

matweller · **Reply #53 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:52:14 AM

While I don't think it would bring in more people, I do think that having just EP forum, one PP forum, one PC forum and an "other" section could potentially stir more discussion amongst the ones that are here. Good idea.

And you're right, there should be a forum link in the nav. I'll get on that right now.

Devoted135 · **Reply #54 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:13:10 PM

Quote from: Wilson Fowlie on October 03, 2013, 11:49:16 PM

I would like to be able to "Like" a Page for Podcastle and Escape Pod (and maybe Pseudopod - I like reading for you, but I'm not a horror fan myself), the way I can (but wouldn't) "Like" Coca-Cola or Target or I Fucking Love Science or Being Liberal The Maple Leaf Singers (okay, those last two I do "Like" - and I put that last one in there to show that even a small entity can have a page - but then, we aren't big enough to have an "Interest" page that we would apparently have to compete with).

Perhaps a listeners' Group for each podcast is what EA will decide it wants to go with, rather than a page (though the two aren't mutually exclusive). However, I'd rather have Pages, myself.

I'd like to ditto the request for Pages that I can like.

matweller · **Reply #55 on:** October 08, 2013, 02:22:26 PM

Quote from: matweller on October 06, 2013, 03:52:14 AM

And you're right, there should be a forum link in the nav. I'll get on that right now.

One down...

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #56 on:** October 08, 2013, 06:16:43 PM

Quote from: matweller on October 08, 2013, 02:22:26 PM

Quote from: matweller on October 06, 2013, 03:52:14 AM
And you're right, there should be a forum link in the nav. I'll get on that right now.

One down...

Or 1/3 of one down, for those of us counting all three sites...

matweller · **Reply #57 on:** October 08, 2013, 07:14:34 PM

Quote from: Wilson Fowlie on October 08, 2013, 06:16:43 PM

Quote from: matweller on October 08, 2013, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: matweller on October 06, 2013, 03:52:14 AM
And you're right, there should be a forum link in the nav. I'll get on that right now.

One down...

Or 1/3 of one down, for those of us counting all three sites...

Of course, I apologize. I got excited that there was a suggestion that I could actually influence for the site I help handle.

The other two sites would actually be easier to add forum links if the people that handled them wanted to or wanted to give me temporary access to do it for them.

Wilson Fowlie · **Reply #58 on:** October 08, 2013, 07:28:33 PM

Quote from: matweller on October 08, 2013, 07:14:34 PM

Of course, I apologize. I got excited that there was a suggestion that I could actually influence for the site I help handle.

No problem. I should have put a smiley - I wasn't intending to carp.

Unblinking · **Reply #59 on:** October 09, 2013, 10:38:14 PM

I like the idea of cutting down the subforum count.

Also, for people catching up on the backlog, some other podcasts compress a 50-pack of episodes for one easy download that can be uncompressed on my computer. A much faster affair than doing each by hand when a person is trying to catch up on backlog.

eytanz · **Reply #60 on:** October 09, 2013, 10:43:36 PM

The mods have discussed the idea of streamlining the forums, and we all agreed it's a good plan. We're still debating some details, and once we do we'll decide on a schedule and notify the forum at large. I don't think we'll do anything before the end of the PC contest - we don't want to interfere with that, if we accidentally screw things up and have to restore the forums from a backup or something.

Unblinking · **Reply #61 on:** October 10, 2013, 03:01:39 AM

Quote from: eytanz on October 09, 2013, 10:43:36 PM

The mods have discussed the idea of streamlining the forums, and we all agreed it's a good plan. We're still debating some details, and once we do we'll decide on a schedule and notify the forum at large. I don't think we'll do anything before the end of the PC contest - we don't want to interfere with that, if we accidentally screw things up and have to restore the forums from a backup or something.

Woot!