Author Topic: EP101: The 43 Antarean Dynasties  (Read 62952 times)

Russell Nash

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on: April 13, 2007, 09:07:40 AM
EP101: The 43 Antarean Dynasties

1998 Hugo Winner!

By Mike Resnick.
Read by  Steven Burley and Gregg Taylor (of Decoder Ring Theatre).
First appeared in Asimov’s Science Fiction, December 1997.

A man, a woman, and a child emerge from the Temple of the Honored Sun. The woman holds a camera to her eye, capturing the same image from a dozen unimaginative angles. The child, his lip sparsely covered with hair that is supposed to imply maturity, never sees beyond the game he is playing on his pocket computer. The man looks around to make sure no one is watching him, grinds out a smokeless cigar beneath his heel, and then increases his pace until he joins them.

They approach me, and I will myself to become one with my surroundings, to insinuate myself into the marble walls and stone walkways before they can speak to me.

I am invisible. You cannot see me. You will pass me by.

“Hey, fella — we’re looking for a guide,” says the man. “You interested?”


Rated PG. Contains mild documentary references to violence and sexual acts. It’s also not very upbeat.

Referenced Sites:
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Beatnik Turtle


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Simon Painter

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Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 10:04:39 AM
I rate this one as just OK.  There's lots of detail, and it's all very nice, and for an info-dump it's very well presented.  Unfortunately, though, nothing really happens anywhere in the story.

The characters are clearly drawn, but with no real depth.  The American tourists are stupid, ignorant and dismissive of other cultures, everything that Stereotypical American tourists are usually portrayed as being.  To be fair, I've encountered people like this while abroad in Germany, but even so, I would think there's still more to them than this one style of behavior.

The major problem is, as I've said, that nothing really happens.  We're presented with a problem (an ancient civilisation has fallen to becoming a tourist attraction) but nothing is resolved, the status quo is exactly the same at the end of the story as the beginning, and there's no character development, none of the characters are any different after the story ends.

This feels something like the first chapter of a potentially interesting novel, setting the scene and the main character, but nothing more than that.

I may well be mistaken, but it gives me the impression that this story comes from the Author's view of himself as being worldly and well-travelled, as represented by the narrator; which is in contrast to his fellows, as represented by the tourists.  This is all fine as an underlying theme, but doesn't make a good story unless we have a plot.

The other major problem I had with it was that the SF element wasn't essential to the story, by changing just a few words the alien city could have been Cairo, Delhi or any number of other Third World cities.

On a side note, it's interesting to see that this was a Hugo winner, it bears some resemblance to Tk'tk'tk, which was presented on Escape Pod some time ago (Except that one had a plot  :P).  I wonder if they have a thing for Travelogues? 

I don't want to give out the impression that I hated this, though.  It was OK, but just that.  It's fun enough, but I doubt I'll give it much thought again now I've finished it.

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK

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VBurn

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Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 01:51:52 PM
Well said, Simon.



Josh

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Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 04:05:54 PM
I agree with Simon, it was, I found, a little boring. I fell asleep after awhile. To be fair though, it was about 12:00 AM...and I was in bed...and I did have my eyes closed.



lowky

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Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 07:32:40 PM
again I agree with Simon.  I did find it somewhat hard to follow at times, as it seemed as if there were almost two storylines going on.  1 with the tourists, and another like a guide giving a tour in the future, where the Antarean Dynasties had been reestablished.  The second being given in a slightly different voice, using some sort of vocal effect from the sound of it.  An okay story, but not among my favorites.


Holden

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Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 07:43:58 PM
It may have been missing action, it had plenty of conflict. I could feel the guide's hidden resentment of the tourists, his disgust in himself for whoring his own beliefs by lying in the hope of more coins, and his anger at the quiet subjugation of his people.



lowky

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Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 08:05:31 PM
it had plenty of conflict, I think Simon's point was there was no conflict resolution.


Jim

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Reply #7 on: April 13, 2007, 08:15:50 PM
I liked the story for the internal conflict of the narrator.

If there were a few jokes or more sarcasm it would sound a bit like a Douglas Adams work.

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Josh

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Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 09:31:53 PM
I liked the story for the internal conflict of the narrator.

If there were a few jokes or more sarcasm it would sound a bit like a Douglas Adams work.

Absolutely!



Simon Painter

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Reply #9 on: April 13, 2007, 10:17:57 PM
Quote
If there were a few jokes or more sarcasm it would sound a bit like a Douglas Adams work.

Ew, Douglas Adams and Sarcasm aren't really a mix I'd like to see.

Quote
it had plenty of conflict, I think Simon's point was there was no conflict resolution.

Yes, that's it, my problem was that a situation is set up, but nothing is resolved. Normally a story should have three parts: a beginning, and end and a middle which moves one to the other; in this story we only had a beginning, nothing moved and nothing was ended.

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK

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Jim

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Reply #10 on: April 14, 2007, 12:09:24 AM
Ew, Douglas Adams and Sarcasm aren't really a mix I'd like to see.

Are you mad?

Oh, yes, I see you are.

My imaginary omnipotent friend is more real that your imaginary omnipotent friend.


Simon Painter

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Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 12:33:46 AM
not really, Douglas Adams' style of humour wasn't sarcastic.  I might describe it as Glib, Sardonic or just Witty, but not Sarcastic.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, does any of this make sense?  It's so late it's become early over here, and I need to get to bed :-p

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 12:39:26 AM by madSimonJ »

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clichekiller

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Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 02:48:55 AM
not really, Douglas Adams' style of humour wasn't sarcastic.  I might describe it as Glib, Sardonic or just Witty, but not Sarcastic.
I think you nailed it!  His works were...they were just art, every word where it needed to be to deliver maximum impact. 

As for this work, I liked it.  It highlights a problem I noticed myself while honeymooning in St. Lucia.  We drove through such utter poverty to the resort that it was unsettling; the utter dichotomy between the opulence of the Sandals.  At the end, against resort rules, I tipped our concierge $200.00, what I later learned was equivalent to four months salary for him.

The work was full of a lot of conflict but I think it ended perfectly; not with some schmaltzy feel good ending but with the way it occurs in real life.  Obnoxious and rude or friendly and generous at the end of the day the tourists go home and it is the natives who remain behind.  So in that way I found it compelling. 

All in all I liked it.  By far not my most favorite work, but definitely enjoyable. 

- clichekiller
 



Josh

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Reply #13 on: April 14, 2007, 03:58:34 AM
not really, Douglas Adams' style of humour wasn't sarcastic.  I might describe it as Glib, Sardonic or just Witty, but not Sarcastic.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, does any of this make sense?  It's so late it's become early over here, and I need to get to bed :-p

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK

I see what you mean, but I think that, while maybe not his writing as a whole, some of Douglas Adams' characters are very sarcastic. For example, the first to come to mind, Marvin from the Hitchhiker's Guide, now there is a character that Adams let his satirical and sarcastic humor flow out of.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 04:30:13 AM by Josh »



bryanw

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Reply #14 on: April 14, 2007, 06:04:25 AM
When it comes to the story content I largely agree with Simon and the rest of you.  It felt like the first chapter of a novel (especially with the small digression about the possible messiah-child), and I must admit I'm a little intrigued to see where this story would go if given more time. And, as usual for a Mike Resnick story, I felt like I needed a hug after it was over.

However, what stood out to me in this story was the superb presentation!  Each character had a unique and logical voice, and the history narrator (not the guide, but whoever was retelling the history of the dynasties) sounded at once both proud and nostalgic-- exactly as would fit the story universe.  Very well done!



Simon Painter

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Reply #15 on: April 14, 2007, 08:32:53 AM
As for this work, I liked it.  It highlights a problem I noticed myself while honeymooning in St. Lucia.  We drove through such utter poverty to the resort that it was unsettling; the utter dichotomy between the opulence of the Sandals.  At the end, against resort rules, I tipped our concierge $200.00, what I later learned was equivalent to four months salary for him.

Oh man, I'd heard there were places like that, of course, but I've never been to one.  That was geuinly hoopy of you  :)  You seem to be a frood that really knows where his towl is. (sorry, I'm still in Douglas Adams mode, but that was genuinly great of you)

You have a point at this, I don't have much experience of travelling abroad, I've only visited Germany and Austria, countries on a similar economic level with the UK, so I've never seen anything like this.  I'd like to say that tourists behaving like this is some sort've US thing, but I'm willing to bet that UK tourists are just as bad in their own way

Now you've said this, I'll allow the story an extra star out of 5 in my rating of it :-)

Quote from: Josh
I see what you mean, but I think that, while maybe not his writing as a whole, some of Douglas Adams' characters are very sarcastic. For example, the first to come to mind, Marvin from the Hitchhiker's Guide, now there is a character that Adams let his satirical and sarcastic humor flow out of.

Again, I don't really agree, but I can see myself causing an argument here, and of all the things we could argue about the precise way in which Douglas Adams is cool shouldn't be one of them  ;)  I may start another thread about this some day.

I'm off for a round of Pan-Galactic Gargle-Blasters, and anyone that wants to join me is welcome  :P

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK

« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 09:11:25 PM by madSimonJ »

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Josh

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Reply #16 on: April 14, 2007, 02:26:08 PM

Again, I don't really agree, but I can see myself causing an argument here, and of all the things we could argue about the precise way in which Douglas Adams is cool shouldn't be one of them  ;)  I may start another thread about this some day.


Very true, the definition of his humor aside, Douglas Adams is pretty darn awesome!



Zathras

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Reply #17 on: April 14, 2007, 03:55:33 PM


As for this work, I liked it.  It highlights a problem I noticed myself while honeymooning in St. Lucia.  We drove through such utter poverty to the resort that it was unsettling; the utter dichotomy between the opulence of the Sandals.  At the end, against resort rules, I tipped our concierge $200.00, what I later learned was equivalent to four months salary for him.

 



I agree with you.  Very well said.  The story reminded me of my trips to Mexico, especially away from the tourist havens.  The only thing missing was some ignoramus getting upset with a native because they don't understand English.  I tend to enjoy the Resnik stories and this was no exception.

Zathras



600south

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Reply #18 on: April 15, 2007, 09:38:35 PM
I think i've seen those scenes acted out in real life in various parts of the world. And even though i found the characters a little cookie-cutter in this one, and there wasn't much action, i did enjoy the writer's imaginative descriptions of the ancient Antareans and i'd like to hear more stories set in this world. It was pretty rich material and my favorite part of the story.

Must say, though, people who wallow in the past glories of their 'race', without doing much to advance their existence in the present, kind of irritate me too. A small part of me felt some satisfaction when the dumb tourist started giving the pompous guide a little pushback towards the end.



slic

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Reply #19 on: April 16, 2007, 03:02:47 AM
madSimonJ pretty much read my mind on this - but he was much more forgiving than me.  I can only imagine that this story won a Hugo out of guilt.

I found the idea and characters to be cliche, the sci-fi element unnecessary to the plot, the story too long, and in one part, a ludicrous event threw me right out of the story (when one Earth ship drops one bomb and annihilates 300,000 Antareans - seriously, they never invented bombs?  They are contacted by an alien spacefaring race and never thought that the aliens might have advanced technology?  I get that this is some kind of analogy to how the English took out the Zulu or any other race with massively advanced tech took out another, but it just seemed dopey, and besides, why mass all your troops in one spot when the attacker could land anywhere?).

The production was excellent - the reading, voices and effects were great!  I will be checking out the Decoder Ring Theatre!!  And I never realized until this podcast that we Canadians really do have an accent ;)



SFEley

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Reply #20 on: April 16, 2007, 01:51:48 PM
madSimonJ pretty much read my mind on this - but he was much more forgiving than me.  I can only imagine that this story won a Hugo out of guilt.

That's not generally how the Hugos work.  I didn't buy this story for Escape Pod out of "guilt," either.  I don't insist that everyone like a story, and we welcome criticism, but what you're doing here is very close to challenging the validity of positive opinions.  Please tread carefully when speaking of other people's views.


Quote
I found the idea and characters to be cliche, the sci-fi element unnecessary to the plot, the story too long, and in one part, a ludicrous event threw me right out of the story (when one Earth ship drops one bomb and annihilates 300,000 Antareans - seriously, they never invented bombs?  They are contacted by an alien spacefaring race and never thought that the aliens might have advanced technology?  I get that this is some kind of analogy to how the English took out the Zulu or any other race with massively advanced tech took out another, but it just seemed dopey, and besides, why mass all your troops in one spot when the attacker could land anywhere?).

My interpretation of that part was that the Antareans had a code of combat, and assumed that with territory up for grabs, the invaders would respond to customary forms.  And it is entirely possible than weapons of mass destruction were outside their cultural knowledge.  (This is not ancient and archaic thinking.  Recollect Hiroshima, and that the Japanese were busy preparing for a ground invasion.)

« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 01:56:59 PM by SFEley »

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slic

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Reply #21 on: April 16, 2007, 02:26:02 PM
Quote from: SFEley
And it is entirely possible than weapons of mass destruction were outside their cultural knowledge.  (This is not ancient and archaic thinking.  Recollect Hiroshima, and that the Japanese were busy preparing for a ground invasion.)
And were no doubt also preparing for the "standard" aeriel bombing.  In this particular case, though, it was a paradigm shift - the idea that a single bomb (or even two or three for that matter) could decimate an entire city was beyond reason. 

In the case of the story, even a moderately sized rock/space craft/missile fired from outer orbit would cause massive damage.  Granted, it is unclear what the Antareans tech level is (though the "Dad" does mention that everyone passed them by) - maybe they never got out of feudal level tech, and never understood "flying machines". But they must have understood gravity and what happens when things fall from very high up.  If there was some other reason, considering all the other detail, I would have thought the author could have mentioned that more clearly.  My point was really, it was just one more "feel sorry for the Antareans" part, and from my pov wasn't well thought out.

The guilt comment wasn't too detract from the quality of the writing - it's just that I put this in the same grouping as "Blood of Virgins" - it feels as though the author had an agenda to write about, and crafted the story around it.

On a side note, I always feel a bit silly commenting on the stories like this - especially one that has already won a Hugo - it's not as if the author is going to change it, or the people that liked it will suddenly change their mind about it.

I guess I just like hearing myself type ;)



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Reply #22 on: April 16, 2007, 03:40:01 PM
This doesn't make my top 10, but I was impressed at how well written it was, and how well it was translated (?) in to speech.

There isn't an adventure here, but that doesn't mean there isn't a story.
This is an allegory like any of Aesop's Fables, with a lot of focus on the meaning and only enough superfluous detail to hold it together. I agree that the cast of characters is kind of flat, but they were meant to be tools to convey the message, not stand-alone pieces to be scrutinized.
What I enjoyed about this story as that it wasn't meant to excite, tantalize, or titillate, but to provoke thought by using strong parallels between the alien race and our own third-world vacation destinations.

As for the destruction of their armed forces, consider our own view on weapons of mass destruction: Having used them only twice, the whole world wants to ban them. The only exceptions are powerful nations like us who wave them around as a preventative (you nuke me, I'll nuke your family) and small nations who have little to lose. It seems that it's only a matter of time before we use them, or everyone gives them up. This civilization was old before we even came down from the trees; perhaps they have a more cautious and aged perspective on it?

How do you fight a bully that can un-make history?


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Reply #23 on: April 16, 2007, 03:43:36 PM
again I agree with Simon.  I did find it somewhat hard to follow at times, as it seemed as if there were almost two storylines going on.  1 with the tourists, and another like a guide giving a tour in the future, where the Antarean Dynasties had been reestablished.  The second being given in a slightly different voice, using some sort of vocal effect from the sound of it.  An okay story, but not among my favorites.

You might want to give it another listen Lowky. : )
There wasn't any kind of segue between the 'story' and the 'history', just a change of voice, so I can see where it'd be easy to get lost.
The main story line was all 'as it happened', which was said to be at some point in the future, long after the 43rd Antarean dynasty. The history sections were all stories taken from important moments of douring the 43 dynasties. The reason each snippet of history was included was to show just how far the guide's couture had fallen.
An example of this was when the man 'tipped' the guide at the end. The parable about dropping the diamond was used to illustrate how it was culturally an insult to be given tips, or to take them, but the Antarean guide was forced by his 'powerful desire to eat sometime this month' to abase himself.

How do you fight a bully that can un-make history?


Jonathan C. Gillespie

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Reply #24 on: April 16, 2007, 04:42:12 PM
I almost resisted posting, mainly because I'm always leary of possibly irritating one of the greats.  So let me preface this by saying I'm not knocking Mr. Resnick here -- "Bartleby in Exile" is one of my favorites, as a matter of fact.

I'll advance forward the opinion that the historical-asides could have been removed, and the story would not have suffered for it.  Really, what do they add that the guide's narration doesn't?  An intelligent audience can obviously infer the fallen glory of this civilization.

I found the point behind the tale came across as ham-fisted.  The characters are one-sided, with no real development, and they're stereotypical tourists.  Standing back, this tale is essentially two parties moving from point A to B, talking the entire time.  That's it.  To contrast it further with "Bartleby", here the conflict happened thousands of years ago, as opposed to the very present.

I know what the goal was -- impart tension and the idea of an ongoing struggle across pan-economic barriers -- but it just didn't work for me.  On the up side, the world was richly illustrated, and the recollections of the Antareans' defeat were stark and haunting.

Ultimately, my main problem with this tale is logic.  Go forward three hundred years from the height of Expansionism, and we Terrans have already advanced far beyond slavery (at least in our most-free societies).  Yes, we haven't yet fully realized the whole "Good will to men" mantra, but for a Social Darwinist like myself, I see it as inevitability.  I think by the time we roll up on the Antarean homeworld, we might just be far removed from the flash-bulb, flower-print shirt tourism that feeds billions of evil American dollars into the global economy.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 04:46:01 PM by JCGillespie »

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