EP104: Lust for Learning

[Mfitz]

I thought this story had a clever idea but just didn't go anyplace with it. 

For all the talk about sex in this story I just didn't find it all that sexy.  Maybe years of reading Romance novels on the side has made me jaded, but this seemed pretty tame.

When the story was talking about nude students spending their studytime frolicking all over the tropical quad all I could think was 360 degree sunburn, and bug bites.   

Icky.

Or maybe they took car of that too with the nano/bio/tech.

[bamugo]

Well, I was pretty turned on by Monique. Good choice on the reader, Steve!

[BlairHippo]

My sincere thanks to everybody who took the time to post their reactions to the story.

And I mean that.  Everybody.  Even the people who thought it sucked and weren't shy about saying so (which, to the dismay of my ego, seems to be the majority opinion).  I find negative reactions infinitely preferable to the crushing silence of apathy.

The story was, in many ways, experimental.  That it was poorly received doesn't mean the experiment failed -- it means the experiment didn't give me the results I (and my ego) was hoping for.  I am now a slightly smarter writer for the experience, and that's valuable.

(And to those of you who actually liked it ... bless you.    )

-- Pete

[cuddlebug]

Ok, I know there is not much sense in writing about older stories when everyone has already thought them through and moved on. Totally get that. But I am MOVING BACKWARDS and it is not that easy to ignore the questions that occur to me as I am listening to the episodes. (I promise, I will keep it down in the future  )

But the questions and comments THIS story made me think of I cannot ignore. I guess SEX is something that simply cannot be ignored.

First of all, thanks to you, Pete (or BlairHippo), this story is full of great ideas, FUN ideas and certainly entertaining. But I have to agree with a lot of the negative comments that have come up before, saying that the story showed a lot of potential but did not pull through and fell flat/flaccid in the end. … mainly because a lot of it just did not make sense, at least to me it didn’t.

Ok, I get the whole ‘juvenile wet dream’ realized thing, … or a man’s wet dream more than a woman’s, at least I personally have that impression (but might be wrong there, I admit that, I am sure there are loads of women who get turned on simply by seeing all kinds of naked people walking around and fucking everywhere, but that is not my kind of wet dream).

But overgeneralized (on my part) gender preferences aside, I just don’t see why the students were having sex at all. If they get off on learning, have orgasms simply by listening to a teacher (and the way she looks should not really be of any importance here, if the fetish is based on the information gained and not her sex appeal) then why would they still end up ‘frolicking all over the tropical quad’ as Mfitz decribed it, if they have (guaranteed/quicker) orgasms simply while reading books, having longer, better, deeper and more orgasms the more complex the material they studied?

Maybe I just don’t get this and there is something I am not seeing, so please feel free to enlighten me, but the ‘Mustafa’ process, to my mind, sounds like it should actually lead to a subculture of sexually inexperienced and sexually inactive nerds who get orgasms simply from studying, reading, attending lectures …. or ‘lust for learning’, as the story is so fittingly titled.

And another factor that makes the sex in the story seem completely pointless, was the incredibly unsatisfying way it was described, completely emotionless and more like that ‘wet dream’ than REAL sex. In that world I would have chosen a good book/orgasm over that mindless fucking described in the story any day.

And Steve, I just discovered the Livejournal and I love it. There is something about reading it that brightened my day today. Especially the description of 5 things you love about Anna. Wonderful.

[Schreiber]

I just don’t see why the students were having sex at all. If they get off on learning, have orgasms simply by listening to a teacher (and the way she looks should not really be of any importance here, if the fetish is based on the information gained and not her sex appeal) then why would they still end up ‘frolicking all over the tropical quad’ as Mfitz decribed it?

You're telling me in all your years at college never read a book that wasn't on the syllabus? 

[El Barto]

I just listened to this story for the first time, and enjoyed it a great deal.    I love that EP runs adult-themed stories.

Yes, the "plot" was thin but the concept was fascinating to me.  A few reasons:

1.  Sex really does sell, and it infuses nearly every part of society.  Often this is bad, and leads to fights and turf battles.   What if we could turn it into a force for good?  What if "helping people" gave certain people a sexual thrill?  Or picking up litter?  Or reaching bi-partisan consensus?  This story didn't explore those types of issues but it raised the idea in my head, and after I finished the story I started wondering....  (A sign of a good story.)

2.  I believe that it is only a matter of time before we develop the ability to tinker with brain chemistry in this and other ways.  Can you imagine if a company secretly put out a virus that gave us a thrill of sexual excitement each time we bought their products?   That would be unethical of course, but what if consumers were enticed to agree to take the virus in exchange for getting discounts?  Talk about a rewards program!   

Lastly, there's no way I would call this rated X.   That should be saved for hardcore graphic descriptions of sexual activity.   Sure, this story described some people having sex, but it wasn't really done in a way designed to excite the listener.  Rather, it was for the purpose of demonstrating a point.   I wonder if EP would ever run a real hardcore sex story where the sex is part of the plot and of making us care about the characters.   

[Unblinking]

I'm afraid I was left unsatisfied,  a story about sex with no climax.  (Sorry, I couldn't resist)

It's not that I'm a prude in my reading.  I've loved other stories that have been about sex, like the one the Word Whore read on Pseudopod about the shapeshifter (I forget the title).  I've written sex stories myself--whether I did it well is up for debate--but I enjoy seeing sex as a major component in a story now and again.

It was an interesting idea, but the execution didn't do much for me.  I think the main reason is that nothing changed within the story.  Okay, so we have a school full of orgasmic learners.  And in the end we have the same.  Nobody is changed by any event that happens in the story.  None of the characters were interesting to me--I didn't care what happened to any of them.

Which maybe I could've forgiven if I could at least hear it as erotica, but I didn't find anything in the story in the least bit sexy.  Because the naked students were such a norm, they just faded into the background.  Even the couple having sex in the quad it was just described as "they were having sex".  The teacher was interesting, but not really sexy--it explained at length about how she was not sexy in a stereotypical way, but didn't really convince me that she was sexy in another way, just said over and over "she was the student's favorite".  Maybe the Word Whore could've convinced me--so far none of the other readers on EA podcasts have topped her, especially in that Pseudopod story about the shapeshifter.  Maybe it's one of those things you have to have been there.

It did get me speculating on the after-effects of such a school, but it seemed to me that they would never have a healthy sexual relationship after that, and the men would all suffer from ED, and the women from something equivalent leaving them unable to become aroused by anything. 

To me I found the story mildly disturbing that there's a universe where this is going on.  Using addictive substances as a carrot in the learning process is akin to a mild form of mind control.  And yes, I would call an orgasm an addictive substance.  Replace orgasms with crack, and you'd have very eager students, who are likewise going to end up worse off after leaving the school than they were before.  If that had been a theme then I might've been on board, but from the tone of the story it just seemed like it was all supposed to be overwhelmingly positive for everyone involved, but never convinced me of that.

Maybe this is someone else's fantasy, and I'm sure they'd love the story, but it isn't mine.  Besides mentally scarring the students, and cleanliness concerns, having everybody walk around naked all the time isn't that provocative--if everyone does it it becomes commonplace.  I mean, when tribes in remote jungles walk around without covering their "naughty bits" it's not like they all stand around and stare and fondle each other every moment of the day.  If everyone wears nothing everyday, then there's no reason for nudity to draw attention.

[Talia]

I mean, when tribes in remote jungles walk around without covering their "naughty bits" it's not like they all stand around and stare and fondle each other every moment of the day. 

Say it ain't so!



*cancels vacation plans*

[CryptoMe]

Some very interesting comments on this story!!

I did like this story because it was very thought-provoking. But I also did not like the world it showed and would never want to go to a school like that. It wasn't the "sex used to enjoy learning" that turned me off - I personally have no problem with equating learning with pleasure, it happens naturally for me (though obviously not to an orgasmic state  ). It was the surgical alterations that bugged me most and made me feel "icky".

Also, I wanted to comment on the following...

One thing that I was surprised got very little reaction was refusing admission to students who were "strongly" heterosexual or "strongly" homosexual.  It was accepted without protest that such people were immediately likely to cause a disturbance. I get that turnabout is fair play but this still was prejudice that deserved a little discussion in the story.

I think they excluded strongly hetero/homo students just because the system wouldn't work for them. If you have a strong preference one way or another, a teacher of the "wrong" gender would do nothing for you. You would have to plan all your classes around your preference and that might not be possible.

[tinroof]

I think worse than "nothing", it would probably be profoundly disturbing to get a lecture from someone you were strongly non-disposed towards. I had the impression (and it's been a while) that the arousal was something of an automatic response, so you'd have the dissonance of being aroused and really not wanting to be aroused. The exclusion of monosexuals is for their own benefit, really.

[Unblinking]

I think worse than "nothing", it would probably be profoundly disturbing to get a lecture from someone you were strongly non-disposed towards. I had the impression (and it's been a while) that the arousal was something of an automatic response, so you'd have the dissonance of being aroused and really not wanting to be aroused. The exclusion of monosexuals is for their own benefit, really.

That's how I heard it too. Every student is going to have to take classes from both male and female teachers.  The assumption is that admitting a male who is "strongly heterosexual" (for example) will be problematic because he WILL be turned on by the male teachers, and if that would be psychologically distressing to him, then it's not a good match.

[Quachil U]

This is similar to an idea I had, only in mine people would be given "designer fetishes" for more mundane things, like washing dishes or collecting garbage. That would keep people employed in 'menial' jobs, maybe even trick them to work for free. (I've thought about this when doing menial chores)

Imagine the awful abuses of such technology; you'd find yourself working like a slave, for real, and you'd enjoy handing your whole paycheck right back to your boss.  You'd be in ecstacy from the abuse, your dreary old manager would be in ecstacy from low labor costs- Would this be true happiness?

It's like a question posed in "White Zombie"; is the zombified girl really in love with him? CAN she really be in love without a free will? I loved this story, but it's good that some people picked it apart; I think the students would experience stunted sexual maturity from such a system.


(BTW, How exactly does one comment on an x-rated story after clicking a user agreement for this Forum not to post anything sexually explicit???)

[Talia]

(BTW, How exactly does one comment on an x-rated story after clicking a user agreement for this Forum not to post anything sexually explicit???)

Hehe, you seem to have managed just fine! :p

[Heradel]

(BTW, How exactly does one comment on an x-rated story after clicking a user agreement for this Forum not to post anything sexually explicit???)

Hehe, you seem to have managed just fine! :p

We really just mean no porn. There's some erotica in the crit section, and obviously issues raised by stories are fair game for the comment sections.

[Unblinking]

We really just mean no porn.

Well that explains it!  Just a few days ago I said to myself:  "Self, why doesn't the Escape Artists forum have more porn?  Porn and story discussions go together like peanut butter and honey."  Now I know.   

[Swamp]

We really just mean no porn.

Well that explains it!  Just a few days ago I said to myself:  "Self, why doesn't the Escape Artists forum have more porn?  Porn and story discussions go together like peanut butter and honey."  Now I know.  

You obviously haven't perused the Picture Association thread    Actually, the porn on there is pretty infrequent and now must people know to hide questionable links behind links.