Author Topic: EP467: Trash  (Read 12064 times)

eytanz

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on: November 05, 2014, 09:07:48 PM
EP467: Trash

By Marie Vibbert

Read by Tatiana Gomberg

---

Nanlee was a woman with the sort of past that necessitated moving to a non-extradition treaty country, but that didn’t mean she hadn’t planned on enjoying her “retirement” on Luna Colony.  She was Facilities Manager – a polite term for the boss of all janitors.  Her staff jumped anxiously at her every glance, and waste was down nine percent since she had taken office.  She was still important; the life of the colony depended on her work.  No one bothered her.  Which was fortunate, given how she used to deal with people who bothered her.

Luna Colony concerned itself with maintaining the Ungodly Huge Array on the dark side of the moon and serving as a weigh station between Earth’s inconvenient atmosphere and the rest of the universe.  Nanlee concerned herself with minding her own business.

She was at her desk when the alarms started.  A male voice recorded long ago grunted “Evacuate.  Imminent danger of decompression. Evacuate.”  No doubt he had thought he sounded important and tough. Nanlee sighed and locked her workstation.

Vince, her assistant, fell to a halt against the door as she was picking up her cane.  “Boss! The station—”

“Yes, I heard.  I do have two working ears.  Probably a drill, but gather everyone to the garage.”

Vince’s hazel eyes just about vibrated, so wide open she could see the white all the way around the iris.  “It isn’t a drill!  This is ‘we could all die tonight’ bad news.”

Nanlee paused, half on her cane, half on the edge of the desk, pulling herself out of her chair.  She fell back into the seat.  She could feel her hot-tub calling to her.  “Metaphorical death or literal?”

“Literal.  Two tons of titanium on a crash-course with our dome.”  He tapped her desk surface, hurriedly typing in his password and pulling a document, which he rotated with a flick of his hand to point at her.

It was an orbit decay projection. They always looked the same.  “And this is too big for the dome to handle?”

“It’ll crack us like an egg!”

Vince sounded excited, almost gleeful, at the prospect.  He was young.

“What the hell is it?”

“The last stage of a Saturn V rocket.  Sucker’s been orbiting Luna for a hundred years.  Maybe it got hit by some other debris, maybe it’s just decided now’s the time to land.”

Nanlee stopped herself from asking “Saturn what?” because Vince was looking at her like he’d just won the lottery.  “Does Trey know about this?”

Trey was the mayor of the colony, Nanlee’s boss.

Vince rolled his eyes.  “Of course Trey knows.”  Like that was any less valid a question than asking her if she had heard the evacuation announcement.  Nanlee wasn’t going to waste breath pointing it out. “He sent me to tell you we’ve got a little less than a day.”

“Well pack shit up!”  She poked her cane against the wall behind her to get a little boost forward.  “Get Percy and take the organic filters off-line.  They won’t survive decompression. Also—“

“No. We’ve got a day to try and save the colony.”

Nanlee arched an eyebrow.  “We?”

“Trey has put waste management on this.  Everyone else is booking it.”

“Why the hell is this my jurisdiction?”

“Because,” he smiled ruefully, “it’s trash.”

With surprising strength, Nanlee pushed Vince out of her way and started down the corridor.  She didn’t bother playing up her limp like she usually did – it never hurts to be underestimated. “Where is he? Where is Trey?”

“Uh… he’s gone.  Central administration relocated before the alarm.”

“Damn.”  Nanlee bounced upward as she struck the floor with her cane.  Vince ducked as she whirled in place and started toward the equipment bays.  “If we’re staying, our gear is staying. Don’t tell me that coward commandeered a single maintenance vehicle.”

“Uh…” Vince bit his lip and ran after Nanlee.


Listen to this week’s Escape Pod!



Chairman Goodchild

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Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 01:55:33 PM
Quote
“Disengage. We’ll pick up mass.”
Vince sighed.  “We have ten hours until impact, and we need to change the course higher or we have to change it MORE.”
“Your point being?”
“We have one hour to move this five degrees, and it’ll take half of that to fly back to the surface.  The closer we get to impact, the more mass we need. If we take too long it will end up more than the skeeter can carry.”
“So quit stalling,” Nanlee snapped. “Janice, get us to the boulder beds.”
The only sensible source of ready mass was a pile of discarded material from the digging out of the colony itself.  There was a downhill side of the colony, a bit of old crater-edge that it sat near, and that was where most stone waste was deposited.  Nanlee stayed on the skeeter’s leg, watching the moon fill her vision, eyeing the shadows for a good-size chunk.
“This is better, anyway,” Nanlee said. “Skeeter’s designed to haul these rocks.”
“I’m thinking we need at least a ton of mass,” Vince said.  “In lunar basalt, that’ll be something about the same size we are.”
“Good. Easy to estimate.”
“I don’t know if we have the fuel,” said Jan.
“Didn’t you fuel all the way up before we left?”
“Yes. But we spent five minutes at full throttle trying to move that rocket!”
There wasn’t a lot of time to shop around. Nanlee pointed to a lump on the ground as their shadow grew below them.  “That one.”

So, from what I'm understanding from this part of the story, the skeeter took off from the colony, went into orbit and matched orbit with the Apollo S-IVB booster, tried to tow it, was unsuccessful, then dropped out of lunar orbit to pick up mass from the lunar colony which it still somehow was still very close to despite having been in orbit, got back into orbit, rammed the booster, and was knocked out of orbit again and crashed maybe half an hour later a mile south of the same colony?  

And I also don't understand why the orbital inclination needed to be changed by five degrees, or even at all.  And ramming the booster stage wouldn't change the orbital inclination of the stage at all, unless it was rammed with incredible explosive force like from some kind of a missile.  

I feel like I'm missing something here.  


Quote
The moon was swelling beneath them, the colony just a lacy little doily in the center of its crater.  Barely a freaking tenth of a percent of the moon’s surface, and this hunk of junk had to choose to land on it!

Wikipedia tells me the moon's surface area is 38 million square kilometers.  One-thousandth of that is 38 thousand square kilometers, a little smaller than Switzerland.  That's one hell of a colony.  


Quote
“Metaphorical death or literal?”
“Literal.  Two tons of titanium on a crash-course with our dome.”  He tapped her desk surface, hurriedly typing in his password and pulling a document, which he rotated with a flick of his hand to point at her.

The S-IVB had a dry weight of about 23,000 pounds (10,000 kg).  Thank you, one minute of research on Wikipedia.  


I have issues with this story.  It's one thing to play a bit fast and loose with physics, but when the whole focus of the story is dealing with physics, then the physics should be within a ballpark of being correct.  Otherwise, the story goes from being science fiction to science fantasy.  And a story like this doesn't work as science fantasy.  

Having said that, I enjoyed the characters in the story, especially Nanlee.  It worked on that level.  But for the type of story that it is, that's not enough.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:58:19 PM by Chairman Goodchild »



albionmoonlight

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Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 02:19:09 PM
I liked it.  It reminded me of Repo, for reasons both superficial and deeper.  I really enjoyed that, once again, the kick-ass protagonist was a woman, but we did not dwell on it.  No expository passage about how "even though she was a woman, Nanlee had proven her toughness . . . ."  She just was a woman who kicked ass.

More superficially, it had the same "kick-ass protagonist with the mystery past who you know is totally going to win the whole time in this little bit of fun space opera" feel to it.  Heck, they even both had careers that involved the processing of discarded materials, if you really want to stretch the superficial comparisons for the sake of doing it.

As for the physics of it, I've always been able to suspend disbelief unless it is an area of science I happen to know well.  Since I know less about orbital mechanics than some 8-year-old who plays Kerbel Space Program, the problems noted in the post above did not bother me at all.



matweller

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Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 02:21:12 PM
Quote
“Metaphorical death or literal?”
“Literal.  Two tons of titanium on a crash-course with our dome.”  He tapped her desk surface, hurriedly typing in his password and pulling a document, which he rotated with a flick of his hand to point at her.

The S-IVB had a dry weight of about 23,000 pounds (10,000 kg).  Thank you, one minute of research on Wikipedia.  
Yeah, but the whole booster can't be made of Titanium, right? So maybe only 2 tons of it is... </flippant excuse>



ElectricPaladin

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Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 07:42:54 PM
I agree that the science seemed a bit weird. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

I did love the writing. The pacing was great, the characters were amazing. I loved the reading as well - the reader really added a lot of character. Her voices were hilarious.

The only significant flaw - other than the physics, which did bother me a little - is that it annoyed me a little that the conclusion had nothing to do with the characters' strengths. The arc of the story felt like "characters throw themselves at the problem, it doesn't work, so they do it again, hooray!" I would have liked for something about the characters to contribute meaningfully to their victory. You know, if the curmudgeonly old department head had learned something by listening to the guy with the physics background (she didn't) or if the guy with the physics background had learned something about improvising and being clever under fire (he didn't), or something. The ultimate happy ending felt almost out of left field, and I didn't get the impression that the characters learned or grew.

But... it was a fun, tense sci-fi romp. Sometimes, that's all a story needs to be.

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Chairman Goodchild

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Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 10:08:49 PM
I've neglected to mention the excellent voicework on this episode.  I really enjoyed it, and it brought the story to life.  



matweller

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Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 03:25:51 AM
I've neglected to mention the excellent voicework on this episode.  I really enjoyed it, and it brought the story to life.  
I'll pass it on to the narrator, thank you!



Arachnophile

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Reply #7 on: November 09, 2014, 04:00:51 AM
This is definitely one of those stories that kind of falls apart if you have any real knowledge of orbital mechanics (or basic physics, for that matter).  You don't need mass to push something from one orbit to another.  You need thrust, and not much of it actually if you've got ten hours to work with and all you need to do is move the impact point by a few miles.  The mass of the object is stated as two tons.  If the skeeter has enough thrust to get from the lunar surface to a matching orbit not once but twice, once carrying an extra ton of mass, it clearly has plenty of thrust to do whatever it wants once it's grappled to the object.  Not sure what the point of the harpoon/crossbow bit was, either.  Was there ever any possibility that you could harpoon a piece of titanium?  And even if you could, wouldn't a direct grapple be better anyway?  Also, why in the world would the US government be interested in a trip to the moon and back to retrieve two tons of smashed-up titanium? Sorry, but this was a rough one for me.



Warren

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Reply #8 on: November 09, 2014, 06:52:20 AM
I'm with the general disgruntlement (bad physics; shallow, idealized, and underutilized characters; confusing narrative). The most recent comment, by Arachnophile, is good on the physics, and I agree everything they say until the last bit:
Quote
Also, why in the world would the US government be interested in a trip to the moon and back to retrieve two tons of smashed-up titanium?
The strong implication was that the nefarious, greedy Americans were using the transparently absurd excuse of salvage rights as a pretext to send an invasion force to the moon colony - possibly having eagerly noted the lack of effective anti-ship defenses.



Chairman Goodchild

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Reply #9 on: November 09, 2014, 01:46:38 PM
You don't need mass to push something from one orbit to another.  You need thrust, and not much of it actually if you've got ten hours to work with and all you need to do is move the impact point by a few miles.  The mass of the object is stated as two tons.  If the skeeter has enough thrust to get from the lunar surface to a matching orbit not once but twice, once carrying an extra ton of mass, it clearly has plenty of thrust to do whatever it wants once it's grappled to the object.

This is an interesting question for me.  Ignoring just changing the altitude in the story, how hard would it be to tow a two-ton satellite from one orbital inclination to another?  Since the story says five degrees, I'll say that's how far I want the satellite towed.  And can satellites change their own orbital inclination with their own thrusters?  
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 01:48:58 PM by Chairman Goodchild »



Arachnophile

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Reply #10 on: November 09, 2014, 02:37:59 PM
 Ignoring just changing the altitude in the story, how hard would it be to tow a two-ton satellite from one orbital inclination to another?  Since the story says five degrees, I'll say that's how far I want the satellite towed.  And can satellites change their own orbital inclination with their own thrusters?  

Good question.  Sats can change orbital inclination, but they generally try not to because it's a very expensive maneuver.  The delta-v required to change orbital inclination by five degrees is .088v, where v is the orbital velocity.  We don't know exactly what v is in this case because the altitude of the object is never stated, but we do know that the delta-v required to get the skeeter into a matching orbit is (obviously) v.  The thrust required to generate that delta-v is proportional to the mass of the skeeter, and later to the mass of the skeeter+rock combination, but it seems pretty obvious that the skeeter would have more than enough fuel to easily take the object wherever it wanted to go.

This begs the question of why you'd want or need a five degree change in inclination, of course.  With ten hours to go, you've got at least five or six full orbits to work with. Change the inclination by five degrees with the correct inflection point, and you've adjusted the impact point by 290 miles.  Of course, with much less delta-v you could drop it on the opposite side of the moon just by slowing it down.



Thunderscreech

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Reply #11 on: November 09, 2014, 04:43:05 PM
On the off chance that our intrepid harvester of comments reads the above and feels compelled to hand-wave away the science criticisms as pedantic, it's important to note that the science was very very bad.

This isn't 'metric/imperial conversion error' bad, it's 'substitute sugar with arsenic in a cake recipe' bad.  It's the kind of bad science that makes people who watch the film Armageddon spend all their time dissecting the likelihood of roughnecks being sent to space while ignoring how the most scientifically accurate part of the entire film is the the part of the credits that says who provided craft services on set.

Please, curator of discussion and summarizer of all things, please don't ignore this aspect of the discussion.  The posters above make important points and this is supposed to be SCIENCE fiction.  Quirks and extrapolations and artistic license are totally a thing, but the science in this was flat-out wrong.



dSlacker

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Reply #12 on: November 10, 2014, 01:59:08 AM
I didn't pay much attention to the bad science as the pace, characters and narration was on spot - my mind didn't have time to wander to start dissecting the science.



skeletondragon

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Reply #13 on: November 10, 2014, 04:41:53 AM
Science aside, I felt that the characterization, despite the wonderful narration, fell too flat. Was Nanlee just not paying attention to Vince or was she contemptuous of him? I couldn't tell, because her reactions to him weren't described. Why DID she bring a harpoon to the moon (was it just an elaborate Futurama joke? http://youtu.be/60BjkUtqxPE) Why was she so convinced that her wrong physics would work better than Vince's wrong physics? There were parts of the story that I liked but I don't know that it meshed together well at all...

Overall though, I would still say I enjoyed "Trash", because it was fun, and it was focused on ordinary people in a highly futuristic setting thrust into a situation they're really not cut out for because of administrative failure and a radical reinterpretation of janitorial jurisdiction to include space debris. Good enough for me.



Chairman Goodchild

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Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 01:44:52 PM
Sats can change orbital inclination, but they generally try not to because it's a very expensive maneuver.  The delta-v required to change orbital inclination by five degrees is .088v, where v is the orbital velocity.  We don't know exactly what v is in this case because the altitude of the object is never stated, but we do know that the delta-v required to get the skeeter into a matching orbit is (obviously) v.  The thrust required to generate that delta-v is proportional to the mass of the skeeter, and later to the mass of the skeeter+rock combination, but it seems pretty obvious that the skeeter would have more than enough fuel to easily take the object wherever it wanted to go.

Thanks for answering the question.  You obviously know your stuff. 

Is there a table for this kind of a thing?  How did you arrive at such an exact answer?



Arachnophile

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Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 03:25:11 PM
Is there a table for this kind of a thing?  How did you arrive at such an exact answer?

Honestly?  I googled "changing orbital inclination." The equations were available in a half-dozen different links. I guess that's really the root of my disgruntlement here.  These days, what with the interwebs and all, it doesn't take a ton of effort to get these kind of details right



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Reply #16 on: November 13, 2014, 04:12:15 PM
This story didn't do a lot for me.  I have no physics background, but a lot of it seemed wrong. 

If the thrusters on the ship aren't enough to push the rocket far enough, then how can they possibly succeed by hauling a rock that will be pushed by the same thrusters that we were talking about before and tossing it at the rocket--the acceleration is provided by the same source, and now has to be applied to more mass (you have to move the ship and the rock both.

I liked Nanlee and her attitude towards things--i.e. she had been considering going to great extra trouble to smash the rocket up into small pieces when she got invited to negotiations and she thinks "Yeah, that'd be less work".  She's extremely pragmatic but also not afraid to take on a big fight if it is the most likely way to reach the objective she's aiming for. 

But like skeletondragon I felt like the characterization didn't really tie together, or really have anything to do with how the problem was actually solved.



SpareInch

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Reply #17 on: November 13, 2014, 07:09:40 PM
Maybe I'm coming in a tad late on the chorus here, but the bad science bugged me too. Seems to me that if you can haul one ton from the surface to Lunar orbit, you really must have the thrust to shove two tons a few degrees one way or the other. Not to mention the simple expedient of just adding a wee bit more velocity so that the debris passes over the colony, or applying a touch of the brakes so it falls short.

And just supposing that hauling a boulder up there really was the best option... Why not try that first? It would come cheaper in fuel.

As for the harpoon and the crossbow... I was left in a state of complete non-plussitude by that part. ::)

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slic

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Reply #18 on: November 16, 2014, 03:51:05 PM
I found this story to be very fun, the best part of which was how the incoming world-ending object was classified as garbage and they leave it to sanitation to "clean up".  I think the boss gave the work to Nanlee more to stick to her than anything else.  dSlacker and Electric Paladin are right, sometimes the story just needs to be fun.

However, I did have some trouble keeping up suspension of disbelief.  As a whole, the tone/behaviour of the characters/colony seems a bit blasé given that their colony was going to be destroyed.  Sure every one needed to evacuate, but they couldn't spare one more ship to help the skeeter push the booster away and prevent it from wiping out their homes?
And I'd like to second Thundersceech's point - not to jump on the bandwagon, but simply to provide the author with some solid feedback.  Glossing over the science doesn't automatically cause the story to fail (you did get it published on Escapepod, woot!), but it does make it harder for the audience to appreciate the story.  And it influences the decision to read another story by the author.
One of the first things that came to mind was a previous Escapepod story ("EP168: Family Values") where the author used zettajoules as a unit of measurement.  It was a huge number that nearly blew up the stor.y




ElectricPaladin

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Reply #19 on: November 16, 2014, 06:19:04 PM
I think that "glossing" isn't the way to describe what the author did, though. "Glossing" is fine. The trouble is that the science was there, just actively bad. If you're reading a medium-hard sci-fi novel in which there is a FTL drive, but the mechanisms of the drive are glossed - ie. never explained fully - you just accept "ok, there's FTL and I don't know how it works, but presumably the characters do - fine." Once the mechanisms are explained, however, it lives inside of that explanation.

Again, that isn't a problem, as long as the rest of the story matches your explanation in tone. If you've got an epic space opera sci-fi going on, you can do something kind of goofy, like "the FTL drive accesses an artificial hyperdimensional space made by ancient aliens" or "there's a phenomenon linking gravity wells which allows you to travel faster than light between stars," but if you're trying to do hard sci-fi, these explanations will clash with the rest of your story, and it'll fall flat.

It's all about consistency. Choosing when to gloss and when to delve, and what kind of explanation to go with... it's all about creating a consistent world.

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slic

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Reply #20 on: November 16, 2014, 10:47:51 PM
I think that "glossing" isn't the way to describe what the author did, though. "Glossing" is fine. The trouble is that the science was there, just actively bad.
Good point - yes, like the time travel in 12 Monkeys.  I should have used the word disregard or neglect.  The physics was wrong, and, for those that noticed, this was just as bad if the character had long hair on one paragraph and short hair and different coloured eyes in the next.  The reader is a bit distracted trying to figure out what happened and not focused on the story.



Chairman Goodchild

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Reply #21 on: November 17, 2014, 12:49:21 PM
Again, that isn't a problem, as long as the rest of the story matches your explanation in tone. If you've got an epic space opera sci-fi going on, you can do something kind of goofy, like "the FTL drive accesses an artificial hyperdimensional space made by ancient aliens" or "there's a phenomenon linking gravity wells which allows you to travel faster than light between stars," but if you're trying to do hard sci-fi, these explanations will clash with the rest of your story, and it'll fall flat.

It's all about consistency. Choosing when to gloss and when to delve, and what kind of explanation to go with... it's all about creating a consistent world.

That's a very interesting comment, and I couldn't say it better myself.  I don't want to disparage this story any further, and there certainly were aspects of it that I did enjoy. 
But I'll point out last episode, Escape Pod ran a story about an alternate-history Steampunk Victorian England in which nineteenth century steampunk nanotech had the ability to revive the dead, and no one batted an eye at the science, because of the tone of the story. 



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Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 02:07:26 PM
But I'll point out last episode, Escape Pod ran a story about an alternate-history Steampunk Victorian England in which nineteenth century steampunk nanotech had the ability to revive the dead, and no one batted an eye at the science, because of the tone of the story. 

Doesn't surprise me.  Checkmate was not making any real attempt at plausibility.  This one seemed to be trying to be hard SF which is more likely to draw criticism about plausibility because plausibility is meant to be a core feature.



Thunderscreech

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Reply #23 on: November 18, 2014, 10:51:45 PM
Doesn't surprise me.  Checkmate was not making any real attempt at plausibility.  This one seemed to be trying to be hard SF which is more likely to draw criticism about plausibility because plausibility is meant to be a core feature.
Perhaps we've discovered some sort of storytelling 'uncanny valley' equivalent.



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Reply #24 on: November 18, 2014, 11:11:57 PM
Doesn't surprise me.  Checkmate was not making any real attempt at plausibility.  This one seemed to be trying to be hard SF which is more likely to draw criticism about plausibility because plausibility is meant to be a core feature.
Perhaps we've discovered some sort of storytelling 'uncanny valley' equivalent.

I think there's something to that, but not the extremes of the classical uncanny valley.

A robot that is almost human sets off alarms at a fundamental level in your brain because you have a lot of wiring in there meant specifically for facial recognition and being able to process other expected human behavior.  If a human-like robot gets that a bit off it sets off warning alarms in the lizard-brain regardless of what you know at a conscious level.

A hard SF that gets facts wrong works on a conscious level.  You need to have some specific educational background for it to sound wrong to you, and it's all happening on a much higher brain level, in the higher level conscious thinking.