Author Topic: Pseudopod 444: Boys Will Be Boys  (Read 11275 times)

Bdoomed

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on: June 28, 2015, 03:17:25 PM
Pseudopod 444: Boys Will Be Boys

by Joe R. Lansdale

“Boys Will Be Boys” first appeared in the Winter 1985/1986 issue of Hardboiled. This story, slightly revised, became a portion of the 1987 novel THE NIGHTRUNNERS.

JOE R. LANSDALE has written over thirty books, and numerous short stories. He has won a multitude of awards, including the Edgar for his novel THE BOTTOMS, and his novel COLD IN JULY was filmed in 2014. His newest book, PARADISE SKY was just released on June 16th from Mullholland Books and his popular HAP & LEONARD books are being turned into a television series. Joe blogs here and you can also follow him on Facebook.

Your narrator – Kevin M. Hayes – is a man of many facets. Hailing from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, he is overactively involved in the Science Fiction/Fantasy and Horror Community where he has done programming for the usually annual SF conference Confluence (this year – July 24 to 26, 2015 in Mars Pennsylvania – more info on the website). He is a writer, a reader, an actor, a singer, a poet, and a cartoonist/illustrator – and that’s just in his spare time. He thrives with his artistic endeavors and lives with a hugely talented woman who shares his interests and is the passion of his life. They have collaborated on a novel that defies easy description for which they still try to find a publishing home. The home they have made for themselves also contains three of her five children, artists, writers and performers all. Kevin has a story that examines the problems of Norse gods as passengers on a spaceship not known as the Serenity appearing in “TV Gods” from Fortress Publishing – available now! Kevin also appears in a photo-graphic comic from Tia Tormen Productions called “Zombimboz” – on sale now on Amazon and also directly from Tia her own self. Kevin’s website can be found at here.



Not long ago, about a year back, a very rotten kid named Clyde Edson walked the Earth. He was street-mean and full of savvy and he knew what he wanted and got it anyway he wanted.

He lived in a big, evil house on a dying, grey street in Galveston, Texas, and he collected to him, like an old lady who brings in cats half-starved and near-eaten with mange, the human refuse and the young discards of a sick society.

He molded them. He breathed life into them. He made them feel they belonged. They were his creations, but he did not love them. They were just things to be toyed with until the paint wore thin and the batteries ran down, then out they went.

And this is the way it was until he met Brian Blackwood.

Things got worse after that.





Listen to this week's Pseudopod.

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


Fenrix

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Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 01:14:07 PM
This was tough to listen to. I will never get into a staring competition with Joe Lansdale, as he just doesn't blink. This was a pretty harsh mirror held up to reflect the warts and flaws of our society, particularly with the fetishism that (social and traditional) media masturbates to when awful people do awful things. The bit that pushed it over the top for me was after we spend time living in the heads of these terrible people, the camera zooms out and shows us that this is one little awful uncaring blip among all the other awful things happening across town every day. 

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”


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Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 03:13:39 PM
This was tough to listen to. I will never get into a staring competition with Joe Lansdale, as he just doesn't blink. This was a pretty harsh mirror held up to reflect the warts and flaws of our society, particularly with the fetishism that (social and traditional) media masturbates to when awful people do awful things. The bit that pushed it over the top for me was after we spend time living in the heads of these terrible people, the camera zooms out and shows us that this is one little awful uncaring blip among all the other awful things happening across town every day. 

I didn't feel that it was so much a critical view of the fetishism around awful people doing awful things, but joining in the celebration of such uncritically--presumably I missed something that shifted it from one to the other.  I have grown very weary of psychopaths and sociopaths in horror fiction (more so because horror slushpiles are FULL of them), and I'm pretty much ready for them to be done, at least when there's not something novel about them.  I listened to this one to the end in the hopes that Mr. Lansdale would have some kind of momentous perspective on the topic, but in the end I just felt that it was more of the same sociopath/psychopath story, not really any different from what I've read in slush dozens of times over.



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Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 05:20:21 PM
I did find it a little bit hilarious for a young man to say that he's not "funny" as in gay, but then, apparently without irony, describing his penis and the penis of another young man inside a girl to be like the Sistine Chapel image of God and Adam's fingers touching. 



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Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 05:25:40 PM
It did read more as the beginning of a novel than as a short story.
The lack of era references made the story more claustrophobic, and I liked that.
But even for a sociopath, Clyde seemed awfully proactive. They both seemed more like 20-somethings than teens.



Fenrix

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Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 05:59:13 PM

I didn't feel that it was so much a critical view of the fetishism around awful people doing awful things, but joining in the celebration of such uncritically--presumably I missed something that shifted it from one to the other.  I have grown very weary of psychopaths and sociopaths in horror fiction (more so because horror slushpiles are FULL of them), and I'm pretty much ready for them to be done, at least when there's not something novel about them.  I listened to this one to the end in the hopes that Mr. Lansdale would have some kind of momentous perspective on the topic, but in the end I just felt that it was more of the same sociopath/psychopath story, not really any different from what I've read in slush dozens of times over.


There's a fine line, which I think Lansdale manages to dance. Does Natural Born Killers revel in the violence or is it satire? Or is it a lot of tedious filler around an awesome Nine Inch Nails video? Can it be all of these things at the same time?


I did find it a little bit hilarious for a young man to say that he's not "funny" as in gay, but then, apparently without irony, describing his penis and the penis of another young man inside a girl to be like the Sistine Chapel image of God and Adam's fingers touching. 


There's definitely a narrative lens on this one that provides some delightful (and deliberate) internal inconsistencies.

It's also intentional that this starts out with a stylistic modern American bend on the traditional Faery Tale. The opening quote in the header is just plain fun. Things got worse after that.

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”


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Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 07:38:07 PM
There's a fine line, which I think Lansdale manages to dance. Does Natural Born Killers revel in the violence or is it satire? Or is it a lot of tedious filler around an awesome Nine Inch Nails video? Can it be all of these things at the same time?

I can't comment.  I haven't seen the movie.  I'm not opposed to seeing the movie, but it would have the same obstacle that this did. 

I think the last movie I saw that was explicitly about sociopaths or psychopaths was the aptly titled "Seven Psychopaths" which I actually quite liked.  One thing I appreciated about it was that it acknowledged some characters as pyschopaths who could make some positive difference in the world which is a nuance rarely used.

There's definitely a narrative lens on this one that provides some delightful (and deliberate) internal inconsistencies.

Oh, I certainly recognize it was deliberate, and was funny in its absurdity.

It's also intentional that this starts out with a stylistic modern American bend on the traditional Faery Tale. The opening quote in the header is just plain fun. Things got worse after that.

Presumably everything about the story is intentional.  I admit, I don't really understand what the fairy tale beginning accomplished though.  It's possible that the things that set the story apart are too nuanced for my clumsy sensibilities.



Aaronvlek

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Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 10:43:33 PM
I'd be fascinated to see the math on this one. Someone read this and said Oh! This is fantastic and amazing and so much better than all the guys who don't make the grade. What am I missing?



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Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 10:52:50 PM
Not exactly - this was not a submission, it was a purchase from outside. As for the second part of the statement - it's why they race horses - this was different than last week's piece, which will be different than tomorrow's. I haven't even begun to exhaust all the subgenres/related genres of horror fiction I'd like to get out - jeez, we haven't even done a conte cruel showcase yet!

YMMV - people's often do, as evidenced by these very boards... 



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Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 11:00:21 PM
I don't know what YMMV means.



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Reply #10 on: July 03, 2015, 12:00:55 AM
Your Mileage May Vary



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Reply #11 on: July 03, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
I should have heeded the warning at the beginning and skipped this one.  Graphic animal cruelty and violence to women does nothing for me. 



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Reply #12 on: July 05, 2015, 03:34:25 AM
This one didn't do a whole lot for me (not meaning that I was repulsed as some other listeners were) - it simply felt like ultra-violent pulp that, in the final estimation, had some great elements (the characters were perfectly fleshed out, the narration was outstanding, and the setting was cool) but wasn't terribly interesting as much as it was grotesque.  I dunno, it was just too "torture-porn" for me.



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Reply #13 on: July 05, 2015, 04:00:46 AM
For my part, I wasn't offended or grossed out by the story. I just didn't find it very clever or interesting. So it struck me as relying on flat gratuitousness. Hell, my favorite TV. Show of all time that I gave watched all the way through more times than I care to admit is about a Yellow King worshipping pack of pedophiles. I can handle anything that's smart and stylish and riveting.



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Reply #14 on: July 06, 2015, 05:22:31 PM
I probably shoud have heeded the warning myself. I wasn't necessarily grossed out. I just didn't care for it. But I did appreciate Alasdair's comments and his personal story afterwards.



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Reply #15 on: July 06, 2015, 05:24:40 PM
Yeah, his comments afterward are often the price of admission and worth the whole listen. He should have a talk show!



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Reply #16 on: July 06, 2015, 07:32:19 PM


It did read more as the beginning of a novel than as a short story.
The lack of era references made the story more claustrophobic, and I liked that.
But even for a sociopath, Clyde seemed awfully proactive. They both seemed more like 20-somethings than teens.

This is easily one of the more disturbing stories Pseudopod has published. That's not a criticism, simply an observation that it's one of those that made me feel like I could use a shower and kittens afterward.

I, too, was a bit confused about the apparent age of the main characters versus their actions. I could more readily see them as twentysomethings than as high schoolers. Not that teens can't do horrible things, but masterminding the manipulation of the staff and owner of the old folks' home AND running a prostitution ring sounded a bit... ambitious for someone who would be, at the oldest, 19 pushing 20 (most US high schools won't take students over 19). On the other hand, there are references to other people involved in the various scheme, so I suppose that could hint at the involvement of older adults.

The lack of fantastic or unreal elements is what makes this story so stomach-churning. There's nothing in it that couldn't easily exist in pretty much any place and time. There's nothing extraordinary about the characters except that they're awful people. The events aren't even particularly far off from stuff that really happens.

*shudder*

Off to find some pictures of kittens.



Maxilu

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Reply #17 on: July 07, 2015, 04:51:05 AM


Quote
*shudder*

Off to find some pictures of kittens.

Oh, dear god, no.

Count me in as waiting for some fantastical, Lovecraftian horror to explain Clyde's behavior. That there wasn't was far more chilling (or maybe there was, as evidenced by the horror that fell upon Galveston in the last two paragraphs or so). The fact that he was just a "normal" kid, with no affiliations to a dark lord makes him all that more terrifying. And that he's succeeding in moulding Brian to be just like him...

Yeah, this one freaked me out. And the kitten--the poor kitten. The whole story would have been just fine without the kitten. Brian's psychopathy was abundantly clear without it.

I read a study saying that kids who read are more empathetic as adults. I've been suffering a depressive downturn the last little bit, and was mockingly cursing being a bookish child, and all the empathy it brought. "Boys Will Be Boys" snapped me right out of that--I'll take my empathy with a side of depression, thank you very much.



cwthree

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Reply #18 on: July 07, 2015, 02:18:57 PM




Quote
*shudder*

Off to find some pictures of kittens.

Oh, dear god, no.


Ugh, I'd already forgotten about the kitten.

Baby pandas. Looking for pictures of baby pandas.



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Reply #19 on: July 08, 2015, 11:59:28 PM
This was certainly on of the stories I found harder to listen to, thanks to its grotesquery and nearness to reality.

I've definitely come across a fair share of people who believe in that social hierarchy of might makes right, so it was disturbing to hear that journal entry, where he's come to believe that's it's his natural born duty to weed out the weak, that it's his evolutionary destiny to do horrible things, to enact that global decline and depopulation. Especially in as articulate a manner as he did.

That section opened a door into his mind that admitted full awareness pof who he was and what he was doing, a dismissal of the title that boys will be boys, which suggests some inherent innocence. Instead, he's living with a mentality devoid of such innocence, and where evil as we know it doesn't really exist.

It also kind of reads as a kind of wish fulfillment, this portrayal of people doing bad things, with nothing to redeem themselves with. These are two boys that we would feel justified in giving the worst punishment the justice system could afford, and we wouldn't feel for a second that we were wrong in doing it. Some sentences, you have to wonder if you did the right thing, but this story removes the need for that worry.



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Reply #20 on: July 18, 2015, 01:35:52 AM
This tale was interesting enough in the beginning to continue listening, and also, I really wanted to see where this was going.
Okay, we have a guy and is friend who are pretty psychotic, arrogant, dangerous, and just disgusting. Hanging out in the heads and the world of these two cretins was hard enough, but I was quite interested to see the payoff, the "the assholes get it in the end" bit, the depth and resolution that comes from a study of such depravity by sensible whole people.
Well, I was disappointed. What we got instead was increasing depravity. This story contained the two things that I hate most in this world: abuse of the young and abuse of the elderly. I took a dip in the sewer and I got nothing for it.
I really really did not like this story at all. It felt gratuitous, filthy, excessive and pointless.
 >:(

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Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
I absolutely agree. Gratuitous, filthy, excessive and pointless.

I found that I was both bored and offended by this one (a strange combination). It was badly put together, and the dialogue was laughable. No human being has ever talked like that. Maybe Lansdale was going for a pulp-noir parlance (like True Detective), but to what end? This wasn't noir, it was violence porn. I don't mean that in a flippant way. It actually felt like reading pornography (the kind that makes you feel ashamed of yourself).

If I had bought into the reality of any of the characters, I might've got the creeped-out reaction he was going for ­— the isn't-it-awful-that-some-people-are-like-this reaction. But they were just cartoon sociopaths. The stilted dialogue and clunky conceit of the journal entries took away any investment I had in the story. Without a connection to the characters, it began to feel like Lansdale was just writing a rape fantasy to get some really gross kicks.

I guess the upside is that now I know not to read any more of his work. That'll save some time. I'm no horror prude, but this was disgusting. I think Pseudopod is above this.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 07:02:07 PM by The Far Stairs »

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Aaronvlek

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Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 07:05:55 PM
I have to agree with the last poster. Notification of this post just arrived in my email box as I am no longer following the blog. The biggest thing I felt was disappointment at Pseudopod for offering it. I know there are all kinds of justifications for differing tastes etc. but the last poster hit the nail with the "gratuitous." Pseudopod seems to be going in a new direction where I can't follow and haven't been listening in for the last few weeks. The kinds of people who would "love" that story are not the kind of people I even want to cross paths with in a posting board. And if all our literature becomes is snapshots of what is evil, mean spirited, petty, vulgar and low about us as a species then I hope we collectively lose our use of the opposable thumb.  Oh well ....



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Reply #23 on: July 30, 2015, 08:54:39 PM
Quote
Pseudopod seems to be going in a new direction

One story, huh? (I guess the "seems" is your out, there...) I can remember after we ran "Train Tracks" and “Variations Of Figures Upon The Wall” within a couple of weeks of each other and became the "queer horror" podcast...

Sorry you both didn't like that one story. It did have a warning upfront. That's about all I can say without repeating myself from any time previous that we've ever run a story someone hasn't liked, or felt that they were above (see - pretty much the entirety of the forum history). Variety, spice, life, etc.

The rest of our summer season consists of a weird western, an unabashedly creepy ghost story for our 450th, a hideous child story, "Saucy" Jack (yet again), the horrors of human sex trafficking, a thing in a wall, Weird Science Fantasy and three official reports of awfulness. If none of that sounds appealing, you might want to check out our distinguished competition:

TALES TO TERRIFY (http://talestoterrify.com/) - more of a focus on dark fantasy, imo.

NIGHTMARE MAGAZINE (http://www.nightmare-magazine.com/) - stories by some of the biggest names in contemporary horror! Bi-weekly! Again, more dark fantasy than we tend to do.

THE NO SLEEP PODCAST (http://www.thenosleeppodcast.com/) - more on the amateur/anecdotal tip (lots of creepers and child molesters, last I checked)

KNIFEPOINT HORROR (http://knifepointhorror.libsyn.com/) - also more on the anecdotal tip, with some historicity.

FIDDLEBLACK (https://fiddleblack.org/podcast) - long dronescapes to frame, fiction in an anti-pastoralist vein.

and possibly some others I haven't discovered yet (DARK FICTION MAGAZINE seems in the process of transforming into something else).



« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 09:01:14 PM by Sgarre1 »



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Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 11:05:39 PM
Quote
Pseudopod seems to be going in a new direction

I'm having a hard time drawing a trend line for the podcast considering this story. The one immediately before was an arty take on the Rise of Rlyeh, and the one immediately after was the slow dissolution of a relationship due to illness wearing the shambling cloak of a zombie tale. I just can't seem to draw a line that approximates connecting these three.


If none of that sounds appealing, you might want to check out our distinguished competition:

TALES TO TERRIFY (http://talestoterrify.com/) - more of a focus on dark fantasy, imo.

NIGHTMARE MAGAZINE (http://www.nightmare-magazine.com/) - stories by some of the biggest names in contemporary horror! Bi-weekly! Again, more dark fantasy than we tend to do.

THE NO SLEEP PODCAST (http://www.thenosleeppodcast.com/) - more on the amateur/anecdotal tip (lots of creepers and child molesters, last I checked)

KNIFEPOINT HORROR (http://knifepointhorror.libsyn.com/) - also more on the anecdotal tip, with some historicity.

FIDDLEBLACK (https://fiddleblack.org/podcast) - long dronescapes to frame, fiction in an anti-pastoralist vein.

and possibly some others I haven't discovered yet (DARK FICTION MAGAZINE seems in the process of transforming into something else).


I've also been meaning to check out The Wicked Library http://www.thewickedlibrary.com/ and The Moonlit Road http://themoonlitroad.com/.

There's also places where horror shambles into rotation like Dunesteef, Drabblecast, and the Classic Tales Podcast.

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Reply #25 on: August 09, 2015, 03:27:14 AM




Quote
*shudder*

Off to find some pictures of kittens.

Oh, dear god, no.


Ugh, I'd already forgotten about the kitten.

Baby pandas. Looking for pictures of baby pandas.

For me, it was video of a porcupine chewing on a carrot.


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Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 05:38:09 PM
I liked this one a lot, although it at times felt unfocused.  I might have preferred more of a central plot, as I could not help but compare this story to "Rope" (play, and later a Hitchcock film) which likewise concerned young, sociopathic men forming a group.

I also think this was one of Alistair's rare misses with the closing commentary.  He was overly concerned with bullying and fighting, when this was a story about neither.  Yes, those things happened in the story, but the story was a larger picture of violence and sociopathic behavior.  Its frank portrayal of such issues reminds us that these individuals live amongst us.

Alistair also concludes that Brian and Clyde fight in order to "fit in" which I also think is an erroneous conclusion.  Brian and Clyde fought and committed violent acts because it was in their nature to do so - not because they wanted desperately to be part of a group.

Some people want to fit in, they want to be part of the herd - and yet it can be a titanic struggle for them.  Those who struggle in such a manner tend to see human interaction solely through that lens.  Watching everyone else "try to fit in."  While I think, in truth, some people never bother trying to fit in.  They cluster together in packs to commit violence, but this is incidental.  For Bryan and Clyde, it is the violence which motivates them - that they found each other was just a bonus.

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Reply #27 on: August 25, 2015, 02:51:04 PM
I liked this one a lot, although it at times felt unfocused.  I might have preferred more of a central plot, as I could not help but compare this story to "Rope" (play, and later a Hitchcock film) which likewise concerned young, sociopathic men forming a group.

I also think this was one of Alistair's rare misses with the closing commentary.  He was overly concerned with bullying and fighting, when this was a story about neither.  Yes, those things happened in the story, but the story was a larger picture of violence and sociopathic behavior.  Its frank portrayal of such issues reminds us that these individuals live amongst us.

Alistair also concludes that Brian and Clyde fight in order to "fit in" which I also think is an erroneous conclusion.  Brian and Clyde fought and committed violent acts because it was in their nature to do so - not because they wanted desperately to be part of a group.

Some people want to fit in, they want to be part of the herd - and yet it can be a titanic struggle for them.  Those who struggle in such a manner tend to see human interaction solely through that lens.  Watching everyone else "try to fit in."  While I think, in truth, some people never bother trying to fit in.  They cluster together in packs to commit violence, but this is incidental.  For Bryan and Clyde, it is the violence which motivates them - that they found each other was just a bonus.

I could perhaps buy that for Clyde, who is just allowing others to congregate around him from the beginning of the story.  But Bryan, he hero-worshipped Clyde from the beginning.  Maybe he doesn't care about the opinions of everyone, but I thought he clearly cares very deeply about Clyde's opinion of him and wishes to emulate Clyde in order to fit in with him.



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Reply #28 on: September 07, 2015, 06:00:10 AM
This is the second story I've ever listened to on Pseudopod, and I enjoyed it.  The character thought of himself as some superman, and I am certain that psychopaths probably do.  I liked how the author touched on their way around the system, and the explanations of how society nurtures and breeds this types. 

As one of the other commenters mentioned... "It read like a novel."
I agree, and I think it's because the author took the time to develop the characters much better than most short stories typically do.  Having said that, I think this story was just long enough.  Any longer or anymore graphic, and I would've gotten vomitus.  The fascination with of sick minds and serial killers is coming to a close for me.  I can only stomach it in small doses.   

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Reply #29 on: September 07, 2015, 08:33:44 AM
Welcome Airotciv! Thanks for stopping by to comment.


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Reply #30 on: November 26, 2015, 09:27:37 AM
I was quite interested to see the payoff, the "the assholes get it in the end" bit, the depth and resolution that comes from a study of such depravity by sensible whole people.
Well, I was disappointed.


I can understand where you are coming from here, the story was definitely hard to listen to... but that's what we came here for. We need fiction. We need an expression of who we are. We need a mirror to see the monster, just like we need that same mirror to show us the hero. We need to see the bad guys get stopped in the end. Thats all good, but for me, stores like this are about focusing in on one end of the spectrum of the human experience. I think that it helps us from becoming blind to the darkness.
I don't think its good to spend all of your time focusing on the darkness in the world, but i don't think its good to [always] stay away from it either.
We have keep our friends close and our enemy closer.

That said, I totally understand what you mean, and I respect that you are mindful of how the story effected you. =]