EP519: Artemis Rising – In Their Image

[Not-a-Robot]

I didn't mean to say that you advocate eugenics.  But I've had conversations where the topic of the evolutionary advantage of this human trait or that human trait and whether these would be advantageous traits and it seems like those conversations tend to start getting into uncomfortable territory of eugenics more often than not (whether either person advocates it or not).  I guess I didn't have any specific point with saying that, other than that, even if we can all agree on what is a good survival trait and what isn't, deciding what to do with that information can lead down some paths that get uncomfortable pretty quickly.  I should have considered more carefully, I didn't mean to imply.

It's far too complicated when you consider trait-linkage, sexual selection, reproductive advantages, penetrance, environmental change, social selection...

Furthermore, many people forget (mainly because there is only one species in the Homo genus) that evolution is not a straight line. It doesn't move in steps, but branches like a tree (see phylogenetics).

[Not-a-Robot]

You mean you research ageing? Or that you're  a researcher who's knocking on in years?

We're allele curious, tell o'mere.

Haha.

Today I discovered that I am one day older than yesterday.

[Devoted135]

Wonderful, fascinating story, and such an interesting discussion! One thing that I don't believe has been emphasized here is that she pretty much says outright that she's brand new at being a preacher, and she's not terribly comfortable in the role. When she accidentally witnessed the ritual funeral, she immediately snapped back into warrior mode and had to actively talk herself down. So, every time she did something that a more traditional preacher/priest/pastor probably wouldn't or should do, I just attributed it to that.

One of my favorite parts came when she realized that she could be doing charity work. (Coercing food out of the restaurant was one of those "good intentions... interesting methods" moments). I love that to us it makes perfect sense that a preacher would do charity work, but to the Teddies this was very much outside their understanding of her purpose. I was hoping for the story to go more strongly down that path, but it was still lovely to see this thread of the story.

[adrianh]

While I liked some of the world building, and the Teddies' religion, it didn't quite work for me.  Although I did appreciate the irony of the Teddies' religion being the forcing factor for the preacher finding her purpose on Landry’s World.

At some points she was completely certain of her own rightness (her very black & white reaction to the T's religion), in others very passive (her lack of interest in the T's religion until it was basically forced upon her, her passive acceptance of her low church attendances). Her behaviour and reactions felt kind of inconsistent to me.

I think part of the problem for me is that I never got a feel for the preacher's own religion — so as a reader I don't have anything to contrast the Teddies against (and it didn't really feel like the preacher did either).

[eytanz]

Moderator's note:

I didn't split out the speculation by Mat about evolution and the place of aging/suffering/mental illnesses/eugenics in human society, and the responses to it, from the thread earlier because many of the responses were in the same posts as comments on the story, and the discussion seemed to stop. However, as it looks like it has started again, I'm splitting the most recent contributions out of this thread, and into this one. Please continue that aspect of the conversation there rather than here.

[nospammers]

I'm surprised by those who seem to assume ministers will always be completely consistent in their thoughts and actions, and perfect in their fulfillment of their roles. (Especially a brand new one!) I'm fairly sure there is no point in seminary training where they suddenly become no longer human like the rest of us.

I greatly respect the fact that the author explored the idea of what forms religion might take in other cultures without making it painfully clear what they think the right answer must be for all cultures everywhere and everywhen. She didn't preach at us, she showed a fallible human, ex-drunk, ex-Marine trying to build a new life as an inexperienced minister on that foundation, thrust into a totally alien culture and trying to figure out how to deal with all of that.

It seems to me entirely believable that an alien culture could develop with the "one purpose" idea. I think there might be other aspects to that--for example, teddies voluntarily ending their lives because they're sick to death of doing nothing but that one purpose...but I'm anthropomorphizing. I agreed with Mur's comments at the end that she'd like to have explored all of this more, but the author left us at just the right place.

[adrianh]

I'm surprised by those who seem to assume ministers will always be completely consistent in their thoughts and actions, and perfect in their fulfillment of their roles. (Especially a brand new one!) I'm fairly sure there is no point in seminary training where they suddenly become no longer human like the rest of us.

It was how the character changed over time that I found unconvincing. I couldn't connect the person who spent weeks preaching to an almost empty church, to the person who ran out and guilt tripped the restaurant owner into charitable contributions. I can believe a character going from a -> b, but the transition in this instance didn't really convince me.

[Scatcatpdx]

I like the story it hit me in the gut. I noted some did not  get  the religion of the teddies. let me explain in two names:

Rich Warren
Joel Osteen

It is  the  feel Good, Purpose Driven  therapeutic, moralistic  deism with a helping of American consumerism.

I came out of them mega church , seeker sensitive movement. While the teddies response was disturbing it was understandable. I seen some who were tormented  in their faith  because   what the person on the stage is pushing  the stage  ; the person feel they  haven’t found their purpose, not extreme in their faith or not  “missional”. The purpose drive dribble almost destroyed my Christian faith ,I finally pulled back from the abyss  leaving American Evangelism for Reform  and Anglicanism.
As an added bonus the  aliens are furries. The only black spot was Mur Lafferty  outburst at  the end.  

[cloudscudding]

Hello, everyone! Author here.

I loved watching listener/reader reactions and the discussions that came out of this story. I'm popping in to remind you that this story, along with all Artemis Rising stories and this list, is eligible for award nominations for stories from 2016.

If you have particularly liked one of these stories, nominate it! It's a great way to help a story reach a wider audience.

Until next, happy listening!