Escape Artists
The Lounge at the End of the Universe => Gallimaufry => Topic started by: DKT on September 18, 2007, 06:52:50 PM
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Because YOU demanded it!!! I love you, man :D
Outside a run-down diner, Russell says to me, "I want you to hit me as hard as you can."
So I hit him.
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OK, I'm here.
(I'm going to have to finally see Fight Club)
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OK, I'm here.
(I'm going to have to finally see Fight Club)
Yeah. For sure. What the heck's wrong with you? You've never seen Fight Club? Loser!!!!
Hrm. I guess I shouldn't continue with the Fight Club scene...?
(Continued)
So I hit him.
"OW!" screams Russell Nash. "You hit me in the ear!"
"Er, sorry, are you -"
Then Russell Nash hits me in the face, right in the eye. I stumble backward to the ground, staring at him. My vision goes red. I get back to my feet, tackle him.
Edit: I'll be back to fight more after my lunch ;)
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OK, I'm here.
(I'm going to have to finally see Fight Club)
Yeah. For sure. What the heck's wrong with you? You've never seen Fight Club? Loser!!!!
Hrm. I guess I shouldn't continue with the Fight Club scene...?
(Continued)
So I hit him.
"OW!" screams Russell Nash. "You hit me in the ear!"
"Er, sorry, are you -"
Then Russell Nash hits me in the face, right in the eye. I stumble backward to the ground, staring at him. My vision goes red. I get back to my feet, tackle him.
Edit: I'll be back to fight more after my lunch ;)
When you proposed this a few weeks ago, I thought it would be a little more intellectual.
BTW, I don't fight fair. I carry an asp (http://www.batondefense.com/ASPBC.html). It's part of my Zombie Readiness Kit.
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I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
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and thear can be onlyone :)
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I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
Ooh Python.
I just got the movie collection today. Maybe I'll watch Holy Grail now.
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Nice asp.
When you proposed this a few weeks ago, I thought it would be a little more intellectual.
BTW, I don't fight fair. I carry an asp. It's part of my Zombie Readiness Kit.
Bah, I'm doing my best hack-job on Fight Club. How much more intellectual do you want me to be? And since you waited for me to start the thread...
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Nice asp.
When you proposed this a few weeks ago, I thought it would be a little more intellectual.
BTW, I don't fight fair. I carry an asp. It's part of my Zombie Readiness Kit.
Bah, I'm doing my best hack-job on Fight Club. How much more intellectual do you want me to be? And since you waited for me to start the thread...
OK, do your worst.
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and thear can be onlyone :)
You're the first person to comment on that. I don't know if nobody got it or if they thought it was too obvious to comment on.
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BTW, I don't fight fair. I carry an asp (http://www.batondefense.com/ASPBC.html). It's part of my Zombie Readiness Kit.
You carry a venomous snake with you at all times? That is awesome. I used to keep an adult iguana in a special cargo pocket in my pants, for herpetological emergencies, but then people thought I was just really, really happy to--
(*actually clicks on link*)
Oh. It's a folding stick. Never mind.
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When you proposed this a few weeks ago, I thought it would be a little more intellectual.
Oh, and incidentally: if you don't think Fight Club is an intellectual reference, you really do need to see the movie.
I'm not kidding. It's not the movie you'd expect it to be. Quoting lines from it can't convey what it's really about.
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first rule of fight club
nobody post about fight club
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first rule of fight club
nobody post about fight club
Are you kidding? People can't shut up about fight club.
[pokes Russel in the eye]
Sorry, Russ. Just trying to stay on topic.
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So... for those of us who were on sabbatical, what are the ground rules for these fisticuffs?
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So... for those of us who were on sabbatical, what are the ground rules for these fisticuffs?
I thought it was going to be everyone being contradictory with me, but it seems to be beating the shit out of me in e-effigy.
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I thought it was going to be everyone being contradictory with me, but it seems to be beating the shit out of me in e-effigy.
Clearly you were wrong.
...Does that help?
(Think about it: if you expect everyone to be contradictory with you, then it would not be being contradictory to do that thing.)
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When you proposed this a few weeks ago, I thought it would be a little more intellectual.
Oh, and incidentally: if you don't think Fight Club is an intellectual reference, you really do need to see the movie.
I'm not kidding. It's not the movie you'd expect it to be. Quoting lines from it can't convey what it's really about.
better yet, read the book...
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I thought it was going to be everyone being contradictory with me, but it seems to be beating the shit out of me in e-effigy.
Clearly you were wrong.
...Does that help?
(Think about it: if you expect everyone to be contradictory with you, then it would not be being contradictory to do that thing.)
So I'm right on both points. I WIN!!!!!
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So I'm right on both points. I WIN!!!!!
No, you lose.
So there :P
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So I'm right on both points. I WIN!!!!!
No, you lose.
So there :P
Damn it!!
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Oh, and incidentally: if you don't think Fight Club is an intellectual reference, you really do need to see the movie.
I'm not kidding. It's not the movie you'd expect it to be. Quoting lines from it can't convey what it's really about.
True, but I think it might have some of the best pop-culture movie quotes I can think of. :)
"If you could fight anyone in the world, who would you pick?"
"I'd fight William Shatner."
I liked the book too, but I thought the movie was every bit as good (which is unusual for me when it comes to movie adaptations).
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I don't seem to be facing any real competition here.
What is it? Are you all wimps or somethin'?
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sorry left my sword in my other pants.
you are a jerk a compleate knee biter
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sorry left my sword in my other pants.
you are a jerk a compleate knee biter
I always have mine. Wanna see?
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Nobody wants to fight.
Either everybody loves me or nobody thinks I'm worth the electrons it would take to insult me.
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Everybody loves you! Either that or you're too damn intimidating. You pick ;)
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Nobody wants to fight.
Either everybody loves me or nobody thinks I'm worth the electrons it would take to insult me.
Oh, you don't want to get into an insult contest with me, Mr. Nash.
You may think* you do. But consider carefully.
*(To the very limited extent that "think" is an applicable word for what goes on in your head.)
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Nobody wants to fight.
Either everybody loves me or nobody thinks I'm worth the electrons it would take to insult me.
Oh, you don't want to get into an insult contest with me, Mr. Nash.
You may think* you do. But consider carefully.
*(To the very limited extent that "think" is an applicable word for what goes on in your head.)
I did not set up this arena. I merely came to amuse the masses.
Of course I think we would both break the FIRST RULE and have to ban ourselves if we truly unloaded on each other in an insult contest.
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Isn't the first rule "Have fun?"
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I did not set up this arena. I merely came to amuse the masses.
But you now appear to be whinging that nobody's insulting you.
Of course I think we would both break the FIRST RULE and have to ban ourselves if we truly unloaded on each other in an insult contest.
A higher rule for me is that mutually consenting adults can do what they want. You seem to be asking to be insulted, and okay with it being open season in this thread. But if that's what you want, don't take cover behind deniability and "Oh I just showed up here, this wasn't my idea." Take the gloves off and start fighting, and be clear that you're Having Fun with it.
Which is it, Mr. Nash? What do you want? To have your cake, or a cream pie in the face? I'm standing in the kitchen, ready either way.
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Russell Nash, your socks are odd and that tie is a shade of green they banned back in the 70's.
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I did not set up this arena. I merely came to amuse the masses.
But you now appear to be whinging that nobody's insulting you.
Of course I think we would both break the FIRST RULE and have to ban ourselves if we truly unloaded on each other in an insult contest.
A higher rule for me is that mutually consenting adults can do what they want. You seem to be asking to be insulted, and okay with it being open season in this thread. But if that's what you want, don't take cover behind deniability and "Oh I just showed up here, this wasn't my idea." Take the gloves off and start fighting, and be clear that you're Having Fun with it.
Which is it, Mr. Nash? What do you want? To have your cake, or a cream pie in the face? I'm standing in the kitchen, ready either way.
Oh that's you in the kitchen. I thought the smell was from something nasty in the trash.
Cream Pie, please. And a Guiness.
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Russell Nash, your socks are odd and that tie is a shade of green they banned back in the 70's.
I have two, just like most people. I wouldn't know what to do with an odd number. I've never tried wearing three or five. The tie has had this color even since that strange accident near the reactor.
Talking about the 70's, What's with the leisure suit?
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Mr. Nash, Thou hast the codpiece of a flea
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Oh that's you in the kitchen. I thought the smell was from something nasty in the trash.
Cream Pie, please. And a Guiness.
That's more like it. And when I think you're man enough for a Guinness, I'll pour you one.
Meantime here's a Shirley Temple, and a foil paper crown that you can wear so your mommy will tell you you're special. Are you gonna quit bouncing up and down now? "Insult me, insult me! My turn, my turn!" It was cute when you were a little girl, I'll give you that, but now you're a big girl. It's almost time for you to quit the pull-up diapers and switch to real underpants. Sheesh.
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Nobody wants to fight.
Either everybody loves me or nobody thinks I'm worth the electrons it would take to insult me.
Why fight with Russel when you can simply ignore him her?
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Mr. Nash, Thou hast the codpiece of a flea
And one from a hummingbird and my favorite which is from a crocodile. It's a very interesting collection, although I admit a bit esoteric.
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Nobody wants to fight.
Either everybody loves me or nobody thinks I'm worth the electrons it would take to insult me.
Why fight with Russel when you can simply ignore him her?
If you're ignoring me, why did you post? Wouldn't it make more sense just to go to a different thread?
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Oh that's you in the kitchen. I thought the smell was from something nasty in the trash.
Cream Pie, please. And a Guiness.
That's more like it. And when I think you're man enough for a Guinness, I'll pour you one.
Meantime here's a Shirley Temple, and a foil paper crown that you can wear so your mommy will tell you you're special. Are you gonna quit bouncing up and down now? "Insult me, insult me! My turn, my turn!" It was cute when you were a little girl, I'll give you that, but now you're a big girl. It's almost time for you to quit the pull-up diapers and switch to real underpants. Sheesh.
Stevie,
I know you're not a private person, but I can't believe you said all of those things in front of these people. I thought that was just for us. You were my Fairie Godfather. You always held me and called me your little girl, while you fed me my baby bottle of Guiness. The drink always helped to relax me before you took out your little magic wand (BTW there are things now that can help with that problem).
I'm going to go and have a good cry now. I thought you were better than that.
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Stevie,
I know you're not a private person, but I can't believe you said all of those things in front of these people. I thought that was just for us. You were my Fairie Godfather. You always held me and called me your little girl, while you fed me my baby bottle of Guiness. The drink always helped to relax me before you took out your little magic wand (BTW there are things now that can help with that problem).
"Stevie?" No, Stevie was your filthy uncle who wore the dilapidated Santa Claus suit all year long. That must be who you're telling stories about. I was never called Stevie.
I'm the one who'd check in on you and your family every so often to see if you'd progressed to two-syllable words. When you finally got there, at age twenty-two, we started working on spelling. Do you remember that?
...No. You obviously don't.
We'll get back to the lessons, so that the next time I call you an inconsequential nematode you'll be able to repeat it with accuracy. It looks like we have some time, as you haven't even progressed to that much significance yet, you trifling, insipid little fungus.
That you even have a thread with your name on it was bound to give you delusions of grandeur. I didn't know it'd inflate your ego so much you'd start fantasizing about me.
I'll try to manage your expectations better next time.
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That you even have a thread with your name on it was bound to give you delusions of grandeur. I didn't know it'd inflate your ego so much you'd start fantasizing about me.
I understand you're jealous, I'm getting all of this attention. It must be hard on you. You do this podcast and set up these forums and people only want to talk about me. However, this vitriol is unneccesary.
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You-sa gon' die now?
;D
I have bang-stick!
Now, how long is it going to take for someone to get that reference?
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You-sa gon' die now?
;D
I have bang-stick!
Now, how long is it going to take for someone to get that reference?
I don't know the reference, but they have pills to help with that too. Unless she likes it. In mhich case, I guess you're lucky.
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Phantom Menace and Jar-Jar Binks? Damn. That's some serious punishment...
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Phantom Menace and Jar-Jar Binks? Damn. That's some serious punishment...
Jar-Jar??!!??
I give up!! I quit! That's not fair, man.
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Yay, I win the interwebs!
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what will you do with all of thoughs tubes
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Yay, I win the interwebs!
::I walk up behind Loz and hit him over the head with a large Jar-Jar doll.::
OK, I'm back. I just had to decontaminate for a while.
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Yay, I win the interwebs!
I don't know...you quoted Jar Jar. This thread could quickly turn into Loz vs. Everyone ;)
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ya vos i fart in your genral direction
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ya vos i fart in your genral direction
He's searching for the holy grail. I told him we already have one.
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BTW, I don't fight fair. I carry an asp (http://www.batondefense.com/ASPBC.html). It's part of my Zombie Readiness Kit.
Hmmmm... That appears to be what Vicki Nelson carries on Blood Ties (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808013/).
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
The... smell is a bit much for that Mr. Nash. Plus, I'm not sure what that liquid dripping off your arm is, but it does seem to be capable of stopping my natural curiosity dead.
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
The... smell is a bit much for that Mr. Nash. Plus, I'm not sure what that liquid dripping off your arm is, but it does seem to be capable of stopping my natural curiosity dead.
Sorry, I was just playing with my pet octopus. He is a little stinky. When he gets really excited he inks. A little weird for some people, but it's really great for calligraphy.
BTW Heradel, are your eyes always like that or are you just trying to look up your nose?
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
The... smell is a bit much for that Mr. Nash. Plus, I'm not sure what that liquid dripping off your arm is, but it does seem to be capable of stopping my natural curiosity dead.
Sorry, I was just playing with my pet octopus. He is a little stinky. When he gets really excited he inks. A little weird for some people, but it's really great for calligraphy.
You do know that such activities are considered illegal in most of the civilized world, no matter how much Japanese animation would try to make you think such activity is normal and accepted. Not to mention everyone knows that they prefer schoolgirls, unless of course that's what you are, though you name would make me believe otherwise.
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
The... smell is a bit much for that Mr. Nash. Plus, I'm not sure what that liquid dripping off your arm is, but it does seem to be capable of stopping my natural curiosity dead.
Sorry, I was just playing with my pet octopus. He is a little stinky. When he gets really excited he inks. A little weird for some people, but it's really great for calligraphy.
You do know that such activities are considered illegal in most of the civilized world, no matter how much Japanese animation would try to make you think such activity is normal and accepted. Not to mention everyone knows that they prefer schoolgirls, unless of course that's what you are, though you name would make me believe otherwise.
Well, I do look great in a short plaid skirt.
The octopus and I are just good friends. He's got a thing for the Japanese schoolgirl next door.
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so you fool around with a bi octopus? That's just not right
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so you fool around with a bi octopus? That's just not right
He's only a single-octopus and he doesn't see me in "that" way. I've gotten over it.
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OK, do your worst.
Russel.
Tsk - tsk - tsk
You're just too damn cheap to hire a professional for abuse ...
(http://www.bettiepage.com/images/photos/whip/whip7.jpg)
(Yay for Bettie Page!)
... so you grovel for amateurs to support your proclivities.
(How's that?)
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
That's pretty obvious. There aren't many people on this forum who believe "any attention is good attention" as fervently as you do.
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I think Russell's need for attention stems from his mother not hugging him enough (or too much).
I never got enough attention. Hug me.
That's pretty obvious. There aren't many people on this forum who believe "any attention is good attention" as fervently as you do.
My own variant of "there's no such thing as bad publicity."
BTW take a beath mint or something before the next time you come in here. Your breath could knock a vulture off a shit wagon.
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Now I know why the Romans loved the gladiator fights so much, I have been well amused from the stands!
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Now I know why the Romans loved the gladiator fights so much, I have been well amused from the stands!
Was tha you over there? Wow, you're an ugly son-of-a-bitch.
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Was tha you over there? Wow, you're an ugly son-of-a-bitch.
Ah your too kind! Or do you just have dust in your eyes from all that skirmishing??
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Was tha you over there? Wow, you're an ugly son-of-a-bitch.
Ah your too kind! Or do you just have dust in your eyes from all that skirmishing??
Thanks for showing concern, but I had a clear veiw of that deformity you call a face.
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Thanks for showing concern, but I had a clear veiw of that deformity you call a face.
Say you see well for a Cyclops, bet the depth perception is rough though...
***begins rocking forward and backwards to cause dizziness***
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Thanks for showing concern, but I had a clear veiw of that deformity you call a face.
Say you see well for a Cyclops, bet the depth perception is rough though...
***begins rocking forward and backwards to cause dizziness***
Stop That!!
***Punches Gedion in the face***
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Stop That!!
***Punches Gedion in the face***
Wow can't believe you punched me! At this close a range usually people are hiding their eyes! *throws sand in eye* since I'm down there anyway...
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Stop That!!
***Punches Gedion in the face***
Wow can't believe you punched me! At this close a range usually people are hiding their eyes! *throws sand in eye* since I'm down there anyway...
I admit I had a hard time not puking when I was looking at you.
**Falls from pain caused by sand going under contact lenses. Delivers elbow to Gedion's head on the way down.**
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**Falls from pain caused by sand going under contact lenses. Delivers elbow to Gedion's head on the way down.**
Oh man that hurt! *major headache now*
Well at least you got close enough to reexperiance those five spicy bean burritos I ate while up in the stands... (side note: don't let the burrito vendor talk you into adding the hot peppers!)
Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with.. impressive, looks lovely with the stars circling all around....
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Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with..
Thanks, I have my own make-up girl come in before these big matches.
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Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with..
Thanks, I have my own make-up girl come in before these big matches.
Oh man how can I compete with that! Ah, well at least I have a stunt double! He's looking pretty bad off right at the moment, probably going to quit if you keep beating on him! *sigh*
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Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with..
Thanks, I have my own make-up girl come in before these big matches.
Oh man how can I compete with that! Ah, well at least I have a stunt double! He's looking pretty bad off right at the moment, probably going to quit if you keep beating on him! *sigh*
Is that the guy I just kicked in the nuts?
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Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with..
Thanks, I have my own make-up girl come in before these big matches.
Oh man how can I compete with that! Ah, well at least I have a stunt double! He's looking pretty bad off right at the moment, probably going to quit if you keep beating on him! *sigh*
Is that the guy I just kicked in the nuts?
Darn there goes another one.. Oh well there goes another stuntman clone. My clone replicator is faulty so they keep getting more dysfunctional, but I figure I'll ware ya out even if they are easy to beat...
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Wow and I thought your skin was pretty darn green to begin with..
Thanks, I have my own make-up girl come in before these big matches.
Oh man how can I compete with that! Ah, well at least I have a stunt double! He's looking pretty bad off right at the moment, probably going to quit if you keep beating on him! *sigh*
Is that the guy I just kicked in the nuts?
Darn there goes another one.. Oh well there goes another stuntman clone. My clone replicator is faulty so they keep getting more dysfunctional, but I figure I'll ware ya out even if they are easy to beat...
Are they clones or replicants. I can't do replicants. I got kicked out of the Blade Runner Union. Fucking Deckard!
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Wherethewild saunters in. Her coat is open, her left hand in the pocket. She surveys the room, evaluating. The previously jeering crowds fall silent and open a path for her as she moves towards the bar. She orders a whisky, pausing to light a cigar before turning to the battered man on her right. She inhales deeply and then lets a thin stream of smoke directly into his face.
“Fella,” she says, “you ain´t got no business being in here. It´s time you left this thread for one where you can handle it.” She pauses and makes a small motion with her cigar. “Tommy, get Mr Nash his hat, he´ll be leaving us about now.”
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Wherethewild saunters in. Her coat is open, her left hand in the pocket. She surveys the room, evaluating. The previously jeering crowds fall silent and open a path for her as she moves towards the bar. She orders a whisky, pausing to light a cigar before turning to the battered man on her right. She inhales deeply and then lets a thin stream of smoke directly into his face.
“Fella,” she says, “you ain´t got no business being in here. It´s time you left this thread for one where you can handle it.” She pauses and makes a small motion with her cigar. “Tommy, get Mr Nash his hat, he´ll be leaving us about now.”
**choke gag**
What is that **cough** a 25 cent cigar?
**Falls to knees**
I give up.
**hack cough**
You win.
**gets up and staggers towards the door**
I'll go
**Pukes on DKT**
bdoomed, clean that **cough** up, will you?
**leaves the**gag**thread**
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Your penmanship is atrocious, and you dress in the manner of a male prostitute.
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I'm just glad he's dressed. :o
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**choke gag**
What is that **cough** a 25 cent cigar?
**Falls to knees**
I give up.
**hack cough**
You win.
**gets up and staggers towards the door**
I'll go
**Pukes on DKT**
bdoomed, clean that **cough** up, will you?
**leaves the**gag**thread**
Wearing a bag over your head is a good start, but with a gag reflex like that I don't see your adult film career going anywhere.
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I still contend there isn't a single SF story that can't be turned into a non-SF story.
If you want to challenge me, start a new thread so we don't goop up this thread.
all you zombies (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html) by Heinlein
you might be able to cram it into a fantasy setting with spells & magic items but it would be really, really forced.
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**choke gag**
What is that **cough** a 25 cent cigar?
**Falls to knees**
I give up.
**hack cough**
You win.
**gets up and staggers towards the door**
I'll go
**Pukes on DKT**
bdoomed, clean that **cough** up, will you?
**leaves the**gag**thread**
I aint no f*cking maid! :)
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I still contend there isn't a single SF story that can't be turned into a non-SF story.
If you want to challenge me, start a new thread so we don't goop up this thread.
all you zombies (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html) by Heinlein
you might be able to cram it into a fantasy setting with spells & magic items but it would be really, really forced.
And I would like him to try it with "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin. While the basic premise of self sacrifice can be used in any genre, the specifics of the plot would be difficult to change to another type.
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And I would like him to try it with "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin. While the basic premise of self sacrifice can be used in any genre, the specifics of the plot would be difficult to change to another type.
I believe Nash has already admitted in the other thread where this was brought up, that "The Cold Equations" is firmly sci-fi and cannot be done in any other genre.
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And I would like him to try it with "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin. While the basic premise of self sacrifice can be used in any genre, the specifics of the plot would be difficult to change to another type.
I believe Nash has already admitted in the other thread where this was brought up, that "The Cold Equations" is firmly sci-fi and cannot be done in any other genre.
I must have missed that comment. My bad. Unless someone else brought it up before I did (in another thread, the one on "The Right Kind of Town"), looks like I score a point for Us! :D
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looks like Russell is staying out of this thread now (which i coulda guessed if i looked before posting).
i'm surprised that the cold equations (http://for18days.curvedspaces.com/misc/coldequations.php) would be considered unchangeably sf. seems like the it would pretty straightforward to change the setting to a wwii plane on an essential mission with only one parachute.
the primary story would remain almost exactly the same.
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And I would like him to try it with "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin. While the basic premise of self sacrifice can be used in any genre, the specifics of the plot would be difficult to change to another type.
I believe Nash has already admitted in the other thread where this was brought up, that "The Cold Equations" is firmly sci-fi and cannot be done in any other genre.
I must have missed that comment. My bad. Unless someone else brought it up before I did (in another thread, the one on "The Right Kind of Town"), looks like I score a point for Us! :D
I was wrong (nothing new, of course ;D). Here's what Russell said:
Back in the ep113 thread we had one guy (the only guy to ever get banned from these forums for something other than spamming) who was saying similiar things. I said any SF story could be turned into a non-SF story. I then turned Star Wars into the Alamo.
When I challenged him to come up with a story that couldn't be changed, he came up with Soylent Green. I turned it into a story about cannibalism on the Oregon Trail. I still contend there isn't a single SF story that can't be turned into a non-SF story. (emphasis mine -- stePH)
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looks like Russell is staying out of this thread now (which i coulda guessed if i looked before posting).
i'm surprised that the cold equations (http://for18days.curvedspaces.com/misc/coldequations.php) would be considered unchangeably sf. seems like the it would pretty straightforward to change the setting to a wwii plane on an essential mission with only one parachute.
the primary story would remain almost exactly the same.
I would disagree. You can (almost) always land a plane when it is out of fuel, especially a WWII era propeller driven aircraft. "The Cold Equations" relies on just that, the unalterable physical, scientific laws determining the speed, tajectory and distance travelled for a space craft of that type. Aircraft, while subject to the same laws have more options open to them than space craft. The bomber also contains equipment non-essential to the mission that can be jettisoned to save fuel. In "The Cold Equations" there is only the ship, the fuel, the cargo, the pilot and of course the stowaway. Only one of those things is non-essential; nothing can be jettisoned but the stowaway.
If Godwin had added extra features to the space ship, or had non-plausable technologies to his story, then I could agree with you. Because Godwin's story is paired down to the barest of details, and those details are based on hard science, there is not much left to jettison or change to another genre.
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I would disagree. You can (almost) always land a plane when it is out of fuel, especially a WWII era propeller driven aircraft. "The Cold Equations" relies on just that, the unalterable physical, scientific laws determining the speed, tajectory and distance travelled for a space craft of that type.
it relies on a situation where she must die for the mission to succeed.
it's just a matter of coming up with the right circumstances. how about an arctic radar station on a small rock that needs to be repaired? heavy seas, the plane needs to get there in time and the pilot needs to parachute in order to get on the island. no time to change course, etc. keep in mind, it isn't that the starship couldn't get her to the next port, it's that it couldn't do it and succeed at its mission.
even then, the case they make is a little shaky. they're on a ship with closet doors, clipboards, and presumably weapons. they can't scrounge up a hundred pounds to jettison? it isn't so much that the scenario created is airtight, we need to accept the dilemma is as presented to us.
in this way every single thing that happens in the story can still happen in the new setting. the only real difference is that the pilot jumps to safety (presumably with some essential piece of equipment that only he knows how to use) while she has to stay on the plane, carried to certain death.
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I would disagree. You can (almost) always land a plane when it is out of fuel, especially a WWII era propeller driven aircraft. "The Cold Equations" relies on just that, the unalterable physical, scientific laws determining the speed, tajectory and distance travelled for a space craft of that type.
it relies on a situation where she must die for the mission to succeed.
it's just a matter of coming up with the right circumstances. how about an arctic radar station on a small rock that needs to be repaired? heavy seas, the plane needs to get there in time and the pilot needs to parachute in order to get on the island. no time to change course, etc. keep in mind, it isn't that the starship couldn't get her to the next port, it's that it couldn't do it and succeed at its mission.
even then, the case they make is a little shaky. they're on a ship with closet doors, clipboards, and presumably weapons. they can't scrounge up a hundred pounds to jettison? it isn't so much that the scenario created is airtight, we need to accept the dilemma is as presented to us.
in this way every single thing that happens in the story can still happen in the new setting. the only real difference is that the pilot jumps to safety (presumably with some essential piece of equipment that only he knows how to use) while she has to stay on the plane, carried to certain death.
While you make some good points, the story isn't that someone has to die for the mission to succeed. That plot could be done with any genre. What makes "The Cold Equations" special is the reason why someone has to die. The stowaway has to die because she exceeds the maximum mass for the ship to succeed in the mission. I suppose you could substitute another craft for the spaceship, but the story's reliance on the scientific priciples as the cause for the problem places it squarely in science fiction, rather than fantasy. If you could replace the science with something else, well, then it wouldn't be science fiction.
According to the hard S/F anthology it is reprinted in, Campbell kept rejecting the story until Godwin managed to rewrite it in such a way that Campbell couldn't find some way of saving the girl. It has been a year or so since I last re-read the story so I am shakey on the particulars of the ship itself, but I would imagine that Campbell would have found clipboards and closet doors to eject.
Also, it is not so much the setting that is the issue. You can have science fiction that occurs in contemporary times as well as the future. You premise about an arctic radar station on a small rock would be just as appropriate for science fiction as for a spy story. If the reason the extra person has to die is because of unalterable laws of physics, and that these laws are the crux of the plot, then it is (in my book anyway) still science fiction. If you can come up with exactly the same plot where the unalterable laws of magic say the person has to die, then that would be a fantasy story, and that would prove me wrong. I don't think you can without completely changing what the story is.
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I suppose you could substitute another craft for the spaceship, but the story's reliance on the scientific priciples as the cause for the problem places it squarely in science fiction, rather than fantasy. If you could replace the science with something else, well, then it wouldn't be science fiction.
that's the challenge before us isn't it? remove the science fiction without changing the story (my hat's off to anyone that can do this with all you zombies (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html)).
your edits have clarified your position a bit. if you remove the speculative part of science fiction you're just left with science, not every story that relies on science is science fiction.
It has been a year or so since I last re-read the story so I am shakey on the particulars of the ship itself, but I would imagine that Campbell would have found clipboards and closet doors to eject.
i linked the story (http://for18days.curvedspaces.com/misc/coldequations.php), up to you if you want to take fifteen minutes to refresh yourself.
You premise about an arctic radar station on a small rock would be just as appropriate for science fiction as for a spy story. If the reason the extra person has to die is because of unalterable laws of physics, and that these laws are the crux of the plot, then it is (in my book anyway) still science fiction.
it's easier to change your mind than the definition of sf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction). =)
if some of the story's exposition spent time on the realities of arctic water hypothermia, the minutes you have to live after immersion, the title could even be 'the cold truths.' virtually identical. these things are simple facts that you could find in any exploration story, no speculation in it.
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I still contend there isn't a single SF story that can't be turned into a non-SF story.
If you want to challenge me, start a new thread so we don't goop up this thread.
all you zombies (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html) by Heinlein
you might be able to cram it into a fantasy setting with spells & magic items but it would be really, really forced.
And I would like him to try it with "The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin. While the basic premise of self sacrifice can be used in any genre, the specifics of the plot would be difficult to change to another type.
I'd really like to thank you for mentioning that story. I've just finished reading it and it was truly gripping.
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Have any of you read Greg Egans's Stuff? I'd say it is full of stories that only make sense as SciFi (the one that comes to mind first is "The Infinite Assassin" which is the first story in the collection "Axiomatic").
Of the ones that are availlable online, I think this one (http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PLANCK/Complete/Planck.html) would also be impossible to convert into anything else.
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I suppose you could substitute another craft for the spaceship, but the story's reliance on the scientific priciples as the cause for the problem places it squarely in science fiction, rather than fantasy. If you could replace the science with something else, well, then it wouldn't be science fiction.
that's the challenge before us isn't it? remove the science fiction without changing the story (my hat's off to anyone that can do this with all you zombies (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html)).
your edits have clarified your position a bit. if you remove the speculative part of science fiction you're just left with science, not every story that relies on science is science fiction.
It has been a year or so since I last re-read the story so I am shakey on the particulars of the ship itself, but I would imagine that Campbell would have found clipboards and closet doors to eject.
i linked the story (http://for18days.curvedspaces.com/misc/coldequations.php), up to you if you want to take fifteen minutes to refresh yourself.
You premise about an arctic radar station on a small rock would be just as appropriate for science fiction as for a spy story. If the reason the extra person has to die is because of unalterable laws of physics, and that these laws are the crux of the plot, then it is (in my book anyway) still science fiction.
it's easier to change your mind than the definition of sf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction). =)
if some of the story's exposition spent time on the realities of arctic water hypothermia, the minutes you have to live after immersion, the title could even be 'the cold truths.' virtually identical. these things are simple facts that you could find in any exploration story, no speculation in it.
The link was dead, but I will dig through my library to see if I can find it.
My position is not as clear as I would like it to be. The speculative aspect of the story is that it is set on a space ship (although one could argue that all fiction is speculative, but here I will take the term to mean genre). Speculative fiction, of course, could be fantasy, supernatural horror etc, but when science is used to create verisimilitude or create the conflict in the story, that would be science fiction. If you transpose the setting to the arctic (I like your hypothetical title!) use science to create the central problem of the plot but have no speculation (ei: fantasy, spaceships etc) it would be a thriller.
I see now that "The Cold Equations" may not have been the best choice for this kind of argument, but it is instructive in how science can be used in fiction.
In my defense, however, this definition is not entirely my own. It came from Bluejack over at The Internet Review of Science Fiction (http://www.irosf.com), and it is not one that is entirely firm or definitive (!). It is good, however, as a rule of thumb.
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I'd really like to thank you for mentioning that story. I've just finished reading it and it was truly gripping.
aye, any story that stays fresh after fifty years is strong. doubly strong when it's science fiction. the only thing that really dated it for me was the implied sexism (whoop that word =P ): what? a girl? no way she could know or understand the issues at play!
The link was dead, but I will dig through my library to see if I can find it.
maybe that page wasn't supposed to be open to the public, the traffic may have caused them to take it down. google cache (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:jq4d1PtmSmsJ:for18days.curvedspaces.com/misc/coldequations.php) has it for now. dunno how long.
The speculative aspect of the story is that it is set on a space ship (although one could argue that all fiction is speculative, but here I will take the term to mean genre). Speculative fiction, of course, could be fantasy, supernatural horror etc, but when science is used to create verisimilitude or create the conflict in the story, that would be science fiction. If you transpose the setting to the arctic (I like your hypothetical title!) use science to create the central problem of the plot but have no speculation (ei: fantasy, spaceships etc) it would be a thriller.
...
In my defense, however, this definition is not entirely my own. It came from Bluejack over at The Internet Review of Science Fiction (http://www.irosf.com), and it is not one that is entirely firm or definitive (!). It is good, however, as a rule of thumb.
that's cool =) i do think that i misunderstood you.
relying on wikipedia for definitions isn't foolproof but i put confidence in anything thats stood for some time without change (the definition that is, the details of a page are usually in flux).
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I'd really like to thank you for mentioning that story. I've just finished reading it and it was truly gripping.
aye, any story that stays fresh after fifty years is strong. doubly strong when it's science fiction. the only thing that really dated it for me was the implied sexism (whoop that word =P ): what? a girl? no way she could know or understand the issues at play!
Sexist? I suppose so. There are us chauvinistic asses that find females more sympathetic (damn heterosexuality!). But if I think about the genders of the stowaway being switched I don't believe it would change the story much.
It was stated, repeatedly and at length that she didn't know what she was getting herself in to because she was A) young, and B) from earth. Her gender only affected the outcome in that crucial first 1/10 of a second when she stepped from the closet, but I suspect a sufficiently pitiable young man might have elicited the same response from the pilot.
(Any further discussion along this line should probably happen privately, or on another thread. We're supposed to be making fun of Nash's big ears here.)
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Have any of you read Greg Egans's Stuff?
Of the ones that are availlable online, I think this one (http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PLANCK/Complete/Planck.html) would be impossible to convert into anything else.
nice, a second stowaway story. it's like we got a theme going.
from my point of view this story translates into high fantasy very easily. the technology in the story is so advanced it's pretty much indistinguishable from magic anyway. on the other hand, a fantasy version wouldn't be nearly as interesting since a large part of the narrative is looking at the structure of a black hole and if that was replaced with a fictional structure it would just read like self-indulgent world building.
(Any further discussion along this line should probably happen privately, or on another thread. We're supposed to be making fun of Nash's big ears here.)
aye, we were pointed here erroneously but we might as well make the best of it. Russell can always split it if things go on too long.
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Have any of you read Greg Egans's Stuff?
Of the ones that are availlable online, I think this one (http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PLANCK/Complete/Planck.html) would be impossible to convert into anything else.
nice, a second stowaway story. it's like we got a theme going.
from my point of view this story translates into high fantasy very easily. the technology in the story is so advanced it's pretty much indistinguishable from magic anyway. on the other hand, a fantasy version wouldn't be nearly as interesting since a large part of the narrative is looking at the structure of a black hole and if that was replaced with a fictional structure it would just read like self-indulgent world building.
But there are two main points in the story that just don't translate to fantasy. All the characters are making fun of Prospero because he is looking at things in a mystic way and doesn't care about the technical details and physics. Changing that would change the story so far that it would be about something completely else. The same is true with the main reason for the Dive. This is fundamentally a story about SCIENCE. They are doing this for SCIENCE to understand the physics of the world in a deeper level and if you change that it wouldn't be the same story.
Also the special type of immortality that they have as intelligent software and the fact that they are cloning themselves for the Dive makes it additionally hard to change into fantasy imho.
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All the characters are making fun of Prospero because he is looking at things in a mystic way and doesn't care about the technical details and physics. Changing that would change the story so far that it would be about something completely else.
i'm not sure how familiar you are with fantasy but this is actually dealt with quite often. the two camps are usually represented by magic users (for physics) and clerics (for religion, well, clerics). in this case Prospero would probably be best represented as a bard tied to religion in a society so magic saturated that almost nobody worships the old deities.
The same is true with the main reason for the Dive. This is fundamentally a story about SCIENCE. They are doing this for SCIENCE to understand the physics of the world in a deeper level and if you change that it wouldn't be the same story.
this right here is an example of why almost all of the is/isn't sf debates happen. in terms of the story, as a plot device, the science isn't essential. it can be tough to see, especially cases like this where so much page space is given over to scientific explanation. the plot doesn't really get going until the fourth section. before that all we really have is the introduction of a couple characters and a lot of exposition about technologies and the physics of a black hole.
from a purely narrative point of view the black hole is nothing more than a source of motivation for the characters. if you haven't looked into narrative structures (character archetypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_character#Lists_of_stock_characters), macguffins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin), etc.) this can be counter intuitive but when someone says that any sf story can be translated into another genre this what they mean. replacing the black hole with, say, an astral plane from which no one can return results in little to no change in the character's actions.
and this is where the debates are coming from. when some people say 'story' they mean the characters' actions and the events that occur, other people's definition includes the technical exposition and physics lessons the author has put in.
what you've said about the theme of the story changing in a fantasy setting is a good point but i think it would still be workable. weakened probably, but workable. the magic users are interested in exploring and understanding the world (and bending it to their will), the bard takes the traditional view of interpreting everything according to doctrine.
Also the special type of immortality that they have as intelligent software and the fact that they are cloning themselves for the Dive makes it additionally hard to change into fantasy imho.
there are common fantasy devices that simulate these. astral projection (sort of a freed soul) and mirror spells for example.
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The same is true with the main reason for the Dive. This is fundamentally a story about SCIENCE. They are doing this for SCIENCE to understand the physics of the world in a deeper level and if you change that it wouldn't be the same story.
this right here is an example of why almost all of the is/isn't sf debates happen. in terms of the story, as a plot device, the science isn't essential. it can be tough to see, especially cases like this where so much page space is given over to scientific explanation. the plot doesn't really get going until the fourth section. before that all we really have is the introduction of a couple characters and a lot of exposition about technologies and the physics of a black hole.
from a purely narrative point of view the black hole is nothing more than a source of motivation for the characters. if you haven't looked into narrative structures (character archetypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_character#Lists_of_stock_characters), macguffins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin), etc.) this can be counter intuitive but when someone says that any sf story can be translated into another genre this what they mean. replacing the black hole with, say, an astral plane from which no one can return results in little to no change in the character's actions.
and this is where the debates are coming from. when some people say 'story' they mean the characters' actions and the events that occur, other people's definition includes the technical exposition and physics lessons the author has put in.
what you've said about the theme of the story changing in a fantasy setting is a good point but i think it would still be workable. weakened probably, but workable. the magic users are interested in exploring and understanding the world (and bending it to their will), the bard takes the traditional view of interpreting everything according to doctrine.
Also the special type of immortality that they have as intelligent software and the fact that they are cloning themselves for the Dive makes it additionally hard to change into fantasy imho.
there are common fantasy devices that simulate these. astral projection (sort of a freed soul) and mirror spells for example.
Quite right. Hats off to you, sir! Literature major in a past life perhaps?
I re-read Heinlein's All You Zombies after you brought it up in the debate. I am pretty sure that it is the winner on this whole SF/non-SF debate. I don't think it can be made into anything other than a S/F story. I will have to think about it and see if I can make an argument, but I don't think I can.
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Quite right. Hats off to you, sir! Literature major in a past life perhaps?
maybe in a past life =) this one only had room for a couple electives.
I re-read Heinlein's All You Zombies after you brought it up in the debate. I am pretty sure that it is the winner on this whole SF/non-SF debate. I don't think it can be made into anything other than a S/F story. I will have to think about it and see if I can make an argument, but I don't think I can.
i liked the dawning realization that the character (erm, so all the characters) wasn't even human. just some weird self-contained entity that happened to take the form of the local species.