Escape Artists

The Lounge at the End of the Universe => Gallimaufry => Topic started by: birdless on September 24, 2008, 08:24:25 PM

Title: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: birdless on September 24, 2008, 08:24:25 PM
Okay, so, first off, my apologies to the non-Americans here, because this topic is a 'domestic' one, and i don't mean to be exclusive.

One of the reasons i haven't been able to frequent this site as much lately is because i've been busy getting ready for the debate... meaning, i work at The University of Mississippi. So, all this talk about postponing the debate.... more than a little dispiriting. These projects i've been working on with people who, for some reason, were called out of retirement to help and who are soooo not pleasant to work with... now i may be faced with having to work with them even longer..... <sigh>

I guess this is karma (http://forum.escapeartists.net/index.php?topic=1836.0).
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 24, 2008, 08:57:49 PM
That has to be frustrating.

Still, it doesn't look like Obama's going to play game, so it might not get delayed.

Edit: Nice how this came days into the crisis, when the only thing changing was the southward direction of his poll numbers.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on September 24, 2008, 09:24:10 PM
*skips over topic*

BIRDLESS!!!  Where have you been, man?  Nice to see you still kicking around :)

ETA: Ah, apparently, I should've read the topic.  Yeah, I can definitely see that sucking.  I hope it doesn't happen.  I'd imagine talking about with the other presidential nominee for a few hours would be a good way of hammering out what can be done to fix it (though it shouldn't all be about that, but still).
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Alasdair5000 on September 24, 2008, 10:10:36 PM
Sorry to hear that.  It makes you feel any better it was reported here as 'Presidential Pullout!' on the ITV 10'o'Clock news which built it into something apocalyptically crazy for all of ten seconds.  Nothing like balanced calm journalism:)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 25, 2008, 08:14:55 PM
If it's any consolation, this stunt doesn't appear to be helping McCain in the polls, and might reinforce the rash/impulsive meme that's been floating around since the Palin nomination.

I went to a seminar over the summer with the Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Mississippian (http://www.thedmonline.com/), and he mentioned how big a deal it was for the campus. Hopefully this thing goes off ok (or maybe with Barr or Nader instead of McCain if he's still pulling out).
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 26, 2008, 04:21:08 PM
And it's on (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/us/politics/27debatecnd.html).


Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on September 26, 2008, 07:40:52 PM
Will there be popcorn?  You can't have a circus without popcorn.

Send in the clowns ....
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: birdless on September 26, 2008, 08:13:43 PM
If anyone's been watching CNBC, I waved to everyone... not really, but i was there. :)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 27, 2008, 03:14:09 AM
Birdless — So how was it being there?

Everybody else — I believe we can have a good, respectful,  discussion on the debate/election, but I will ask as a moderator that we don't use lolcat/fark type images. They (are/can be/are not) funny, but they're not useful for the discussion.

So what did you guys think of the debate? Did you watch it, and if you didn't why not?

I'll start — I think that it was pretty much a tie, which is bad for McCain as foreign policy is his signature issue. Obama held his own, which is better for him going forward since A. I can't imagine Palin-of-the-Russia-from-my-porch will do that well against Biden B. Obama's better on the economy, and C. he looked presidential in this debate, and while showing some anger, kept it in check. McCain was trying to hit him on naivete (which I think he pronounced differently each time), but Obama wasn't giving a naive performance — and most Americans aren't going to know the ins and outs of the issues McCain was calling Obama naive about, so it came off a bit condescending.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on September 27, 2008, 03:38:09 AM
well the VP debate has been a bit hampered because, somehow, the McCain camp got whomever is in charge to make some concessions and alter the format because of Palin's lack of debating experience.

Because, of course, since she's a novice, people should "go easy" On her.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on September 28, 2008, 01:53:49 PM
well the VP debate has been a bit hampered because, somehow, the McCain camp got whomever is in charge to make some concessions and alter the format because of Palin's lack of debating experience.

Because, of course, since she's a novice, people should "go easy" On her.

Can you expound a bit on this?

I know she has experience debating when running for governor.  Are you referring to her lack of foreign affairs experience, then?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on September 28, 2008, 03:12:05 PM
wait, never mind. Apparently me and everyone else misread the article that gave me this impression.  Woops.

Anyway here it is, for the curious

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 28, 2008, 04:22:08 PM
wait, never mind. Apparently me and everyone else misread the article that gave me this impression.  Woops.

Anyway here it is, for the curious

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html

The VP debate is in the more usual presidential debate form where the two candidates can't actually interact much, as opposed to the actual presidential debates this cycle where they can, and did a bit this time. Palin may have debated in her gubernatorial race, but her performance on several recent news programs show a... Well, you can watch the video yourself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec). It's not pretty. There's a reason why not ever being on Meet the Press or one of the other Washington Sunday shows is a legitimate failing in a candidate.

There's also this item (http://www.wegoted.com/):
Quote
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people
are more than concerned about Palin.

The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on September 29, 2008, 12:41:49 AM
There's also this item (http://www.wegoted.com/):
Quote
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people
are more than concerned about Palin.

The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."

I am Joe's total lack of surprise.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Bdoomed on September 29, 2008, 04:55:45 AM
There's also this item (http://www.wegoted.com/):
Quote
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people
are more than concerned about Palin.

The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."

I am Joe's total lack of surprise.
you stole the words right out of my mouth.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on September 29, 2008, 10:49:42 AM
There's also this item (http://www.wegoted.com/):
Quote
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people
are more than concerned about Palin.

The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."

I am Joe's total lack of surprise.
you stole the words right out of my mouth.

She was put on the ticket, because she's a woman.  Is this the best woman the Republicans have??  Or were they too busy looking for a pretty face and forgot to look at what was behind it?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on September 29, 2008, 11:59:32 AM
Well, they needed a woman to woo the disaffected Clinton voters, and they needed someone who was anti-woman to suck up to the religious right that McCain used to refer to as "agents of intolerance" and "a blight on the political landscape".

Between those two, you get a pretty short list.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on September 29, 2008, 12:59:15 PM
Well, they needed a woman to woo the disaffected Clinton voters, and they needed someone who was anti-woman to suck up to the religious right that McCain used to refer to as "agents of intolerance" and "a blight on the political landscape".

Between those two, you get a pretty short list.

Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: eytanz on September 29, 2008, 01:01:37 PM
Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

I'm sure there is a large demographic who prefer candidates who don't know any more about anything than they do.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on September 29, 2008, 01:18:26 PM
Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

I'm sure there is a large demographic who prefer candidates who don't know any more about anything than they do.

Scary but true.


Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on September 29, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

I'm sure there is a large demographic who prefer candidates who don't know any more about anything than they do.

Scary but true.


I am Joe's jaded cynicism.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 29, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

I'm sure there is a large demographic who prefer candidates who don't know any more about anything than they do.

Scary but true.


I am Joe's jaded cynicism.

C: I am a dire wolf, prey-stalking, lethal prowler.
M: I am a hunter, horse-mounted, wolf-stabbing.
C: I am a horsefly, horse-stinging, hunter-throwing.
M: I am a spider, fly-consuming, eight legged.
C: I am a snake, spider-devouring, posion-toothed.
M: I am an ox, snake-crushing, heavy footed.
C: I am an anthrax, butcher, bacterium, warm-life destroying.
M: I am a world, space-floating, life nurturing.
C: I am a nova, all-exploding... planet-cremating.
M: I am the Universe -- all things encompassing, all life embracing.
C: I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds... of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?
M: I am hope.

[/Sandman vol.2 #4]

Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on September 29, 2008, 04:23:03 PM
Well, they needed a woman to woo the disaffected Clinton voters, and they needed someone who was anti-woman to suck up to the religious right that McCain used to refer to as "agents of intolerance" and "a blight on the political landscape".

Between those two, you get a pretty short list.

Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't go with Condoleezza Rice.  I'm not a fan of hers, but she certainly seems more intelligent (and experienced) than Palin.  I suppose this was McCain's way of distancing himself from the Bush administration, though. 

On the bright side, Tina Fey's back on SNL...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on September 29, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
Well, they needed a woman to woo the disaffected Clinton voters, and they needed someone who was anti-woman to suck up to the religious right that McCain used to refer to as "agents of intolerance" and "a blight on the political landscape".

Between those two, you get a pretty short list.

Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't go with Condoleezza Rice.  I'm not a fan of hers, but she certainly seems more intelligent (and experienced) than Palin.  I suppose this was McCain's way of distancing himself from the Bush administration, though. 
She's pro-choice. And the religious right, which is a large chunk of the Republican "base", was very vocal about not being able to vote for McCain if he picked a pro-choice running mate.

Still, had McCain been half the maverick he presented himself as, he'd have called their bluff, picked someone the centrists could relate to and dared the far-right to hand the election to Obama...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: eytanz on September 29, 2008, 05:10:51 PM
Still, had McCain been half the maverick he presented himself as, he'd have called their bluff, picked someone the centrists could relate to and dared the far-right to hand the election to Obama...

Awww... That's cute. You make it sound like McCain gets to make decisions...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 29, 2008, 08:56:08 PM
Still, had McCain been half the maverick he presented himself as, he'd have called their bluff, picked someone the centrists could relate to and dared the far-right to hand the election to Obama...

Awww... That's cute. You make it sound like McCain gets to make decisions...

I love that he suspended his campaign to work on the economic issue, and when it actually gets up to a vote in the House the lack of Republican support kills the bill. Being the titular head of the party doesn't appear to mean much to the House Republicans. And then the markets fall ~7-8% (Single biggest day fall since, I believe, the markets opened after 9/11two decades (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/business/30markets.html)). And then he blames the Democrats for killing the bill, even though a majority of the House Dems voted for it. At least Obama called for calm after the vote failed (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/obama-stay-calm-in-light-of-house-vote/), which seems somewhat more presidential than attacking your opponent.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on September 29, 2008, 09:12:36 PM
Whether the bill would have been a good thing or not is questionable, but blaming the democrats for the bill failing when it was the republicans who didn't vote for it is just stupid beyond all possible belief. I was sitting here shaking my head in disbelief reading about it on cnn.

For pete's frigging sake.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on September 29, 2008, 09:43:28 PM
Still, had McCain been half the maverick he presented himself as, he'd have called their bluff, picked someone the centrists could relate to and dared the far-right to hand the election to Obama...

Awww... That's cute. You make it sound like McCain gets to make decisions...

I love that he suspended his campaign to work on the economic issue, and when it actually gets up to a vote in the House the lack of Republican support kills the bill. Being the titular head of the party doesn't appear to mean much to the House Republicans. And then the markets fall ~7-8% (Single biggest day fall since, I believe, the markets opened after 9/11two decades (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/business/30markets.html)). And then he blames the Democrats for killing the bill, even though a majority of the House Dems voted for it. At least Obama called for calm after the vote failed (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/obama-stay-calm-in-light-of-house-vote/), which seems somewhat more presidential than attacking your opponent.


I like that he called for all politicians to leave behind partisianship...right after blaming Obama and the Dems.  What do they teach children in school these days?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on September 29, 2008, 09:53:39 PM
I like that he called for all politicians to leave behind partisianship...right after blaming Obama and the Dems.  What do they teach children in school these days?

Do they teach children in school these days?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on September 29, 2008, 09:56:09 PM
I like that he called for all politicians to leave behind partisianship...right after blaming Obama and the Dems.  What do they teach children in school these days?

Do they teach children in school these days?

Heh. As a former teacher and a husband of a teacher: yeah :)

But I know sometimes you do wonder...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on September 29, 2008, 10:04:10 PM
I like that he called for all politicians to leave behind partisianship...right after blaming Obama and the Dems.  What do they teach children in school these days?

Do they teach children in school these days?

Heh. As a former teacher and a husband of a teacher: yeah :)

But I know sometimes you do wonder...

Remember, this is McCain. He went to school with way back in the days when they sent the kiddies off with beer for breakfast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_beer#Medieval_Europe).
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on September 30, 2008, 11:57:00 AM
I like that he called for all politicians to leave behind partisianship...right after blaming Obama and the Dems.  What do they teach children in school these days?

Do they teach children in school these days?
Well, they do teach. But the question you have to ask is: Is our children learning?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 01, 2008, 06:42:53 PM
wait, never mind. Apparently me and everyone else misread the article that gave me this impression.  Woops.

Anyway here it is, for the curious

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html

First off, thank you for the link.

Now, I just asked a question, as I was genuinely interested.  So I'm sorry I asked for more information and will try to remember that it is tactless of me to post such outlandish inquireies.  Instead of trying to understand the thread, I'll just stick to my assumptions.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on October 01, 2008, 08:07:48 PM
wait, never mind. Apparently me and everyone else misread the article that gave me this impression.  Woops.

Anyway here it is, for the curious

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html

First off, thank you for the link.

Now, I just asked a question, as I was genuinely interested.  So I'm sorry I asked for more information and will try to remember that it is tactless of me to post such outlandish inquireies.  Instead of trying to understand the thread, I'll just stick to my assumptions.

Huh?

what on earth are you talking about? Not a single person in this entire thread attacked you in any way, shape or form or criticized you for asking, so I am very very very confused that you seem upset.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: eytanz on October 01, 2008, 09:19:16 PM
I think he thinks the first part of your reply (about misreading the article) was sarcastic.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on October 01, 2008, 09:21:46 PM
Oh. if thats the case, it wasnt at all. I was feeling like an idiot because I'd misread it, which I didnt realize till I went to look it up.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 02, 2008, 06:49:26 PM
Oh. if thats the case, it wasnt at all. I was feeling like an idiot because I'd misread it, which I didnt realize till I went to look it up.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Ah, then I shall try to remove my foot from my mouth.   :-[

Sorry, too.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on October 02, 2008, 06:55:43 PM
Wait. What?

This is a political discussion on an internet forum and you people are apologizing to each other?  Has the world gone mad?

Get a grip! Flame war 2008!

Really, I LOVE this forum :)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 02, 2008, 07:02:24 PM
Wait. What?

This is a political discussion on an internet forum and you people are apologizing to each other?  Has the world gone mad?

Get a grip! Flame war 2008!

Really, I LOVE this forum :)

Well, if you want to see an argument start...

I will be too busy to pay attention to the debate tonight.  There is something more important going on, MLB playoffs, baby!

Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on October 02, 2008, 07:40:48 PM
I will be too busy to pay attention to the debate tonight.  There is something more important going on, MLB playoffs, baby!



I will be too busy to pay attention to the debate tonight.  There is something more important going on; I have disc 3 of The Sarah Connor Chronicles from Netflix, and also a game of Final Fantasy 7 in progress on my PC.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on October 02, 2008, 07:54:35 PM
Wait. What?

This is a political discussion on an internet forum and you people are apologizing to each other?  Has the world gone mad?

Get a grip! Flame war 2008!

Really, I LOVE this forum :)

You know, you're right.  We cant be having this.

*hits Zathras with a chair, ala Jerry Springer*
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: stePH on October 02, 2008, 08:27:07 PM
*hits Zathras with a chair, ala Jerry Springer*

I think you misspelled "Geraldo Rivera".
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 02, 2008, 11:58:03 PM
Well, you know, Brotha, I grew up as a little Hulk-a-maniac.  I said my prayers, took some "vitamins" and now I'm gonna have to lay the smack down on your roody-poo-candy butt!  Brotha, the Vorlons ain't around no more to protect their little teep!  So whatcha gonna do when Zathras and his 9 brothers run wild on YOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOU?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Windup on October 03, 2008, 12:33:19 AM

Well, you know, Brotha, I grew up as a little Hulk-a-maniac.  I said my prayers, took some "vitamins" and now I'm gonna have to lay the smack down on your roody-poo-candy butt!  Brotha, the Vorlons ain't around no more to protect their little teep!  So whatcha gonna do when Zathras and his 9 brothers run wild on YOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOU?!?!?!?!


Wait. You're the guy who said his brain is "always running 100 mph" and this is where it took you? 

A vector has two parts, dude: Speed AND Direction

 ;D
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 03, 2008, 12:58:09 AM
I never claimed that it was organized....

Think of it more as a tornado.  Crap is flying everywhere.  I think there are monkeys typing in here, too...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on October 03, 2008, 02:43:53 AM
Does anyone else find the sound of nuk-u-lar like nails against the blackboard of their soul? Because I do.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on October 03, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
Well, you know, Brotha, I grew up as a little Hulk-a-maniac.  I said my prayers, took some "vitamins" and now I'm gonna have to lay the smack down on your roody-poo-candy butt!  Brotha, the Vorlons ain't around no more to protect their little teep!  So whatcha gonna do when Zathras and his 9 brothers run wild on YOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOUOU?!?!?!?!

Dude, that was awesome.  ;D
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on October 03, 2008, 03:49:50 PM
Does anyone else find the sound of nuk-u-lar like nails against the blackboard of their soul? Because I do.


For me, it's the winking at the camera.  Also?  I HATE the term Joe Sixpack.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 21, 2008, 03:15:02 AM
::Drops a top rope elbow on Talia::

OOOOOOOhhhhhhh, Yeeeaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!


(It's been too peaceful around here lately!)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on October 21, 2008, 05:45:39 AM
*sends a flying karate kick at Zathras' head*

and to make this post relevant to the thread..

http://www.atom.com/spotlights/kung_fu_election/
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on October 21, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
What's sad is that Clinton, Obama and McCain all made appearances on WWE Monday Night Raw.

::Locks in the Million Dollar Dream::
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Bdoomed on October 28, 2008, 09:18:31 PM
totally voted today.  I feel accomplished.

http://masterchiefforpresident.org/
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Nt 2 B TKN INTRNLY on October 28, 2008, 09:46:44 PM
totally voted today.  I feel accomplished.

http://masterchiefforpresident.org/

I'm in. I swear, we must have a Halo political party in Canada. I mean, we have these guys, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Marijuana_Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Marijuana_Party) so...

But I'd have to agree with something I read on the NYT: Everytime Sarah Palin finished saying something, she looked like she wanted a cookie. All talk, no substance.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on November 10, 2008, 06:58:44 PM
Oh, thread of pre-election politics, rise from the dead and come forth:

Well, they needed a woman to woo the disaffected Clinton voters, and they needed someone who was anti-woman to suck up to the religious right that McCain used to refer to as "agents of intolerance" and "a blight on the political landscape".

Between those two, you get a pretty short list.

Still, there had to be someone, who at least knew…something…about…something.

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't go with Condoleezza Rice.  I'm not a fan of hers, but she certainly seems more intelligent (and experienced) than Palin.  I suppose this was McCain's way of distancing himself from the Bush administration, though. 
She's pro-choice. And the religious right, which is a large chunk of the Republican "base", was very vocal about not being able to vote for McCain if he picked a pro-choice running mate.

Still, had McCain been half the maverick he presented himself as, he'd have called their bluff, picked someone the centrists could relate to and dared the far-right to hand the election to Obama...

SO, now even the McCain people are calling her a worthless, stupid hick.  Why did they pick her?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on November 10, 2008, 07:27:04 PM
Meh. They're just casting about for someone to blame. It's not the consistently negative ads that McCain ran, that voters said pissed them off; it's not the fact that McCain didn't have any actual policies, other than being all mavericky; it's not that the Republican Party has a bad reputation for some reason; it's all the fault of that Palin woman, who forced herself onto the ticket, and the McCain people had nothing to do with it at all.

Pathetic, really.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on November 10, 2008, 07:29:22 PM
Yeah, not to mention that despite knowing all this, they picked her anyway.  It's not like they only found it out after the fact.

Unless, they didn't vet her as thoroughly as we were led to believe...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on November 10, 2008, 07:32:17 PM
Yeah, not to mention that despite knowing all this, they picked her anyway.  It's not like they only found it out after the fact.

Unless, they didn't vet her as thoroughly as we were led to believe...

I can't remember who said it, but someone pointed out that even at McDonalds you're interviewed thrice before being hired.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on November 10, 2008, 07:48:44 PM
Yeah, not to mention that despite knowing all this, they picked her anyway.  It's not like they only found it out after the fact.

Unless, they didn't vet her as thoroughly as we were led to believe...
Well, the people that would have been interviewed as part of the vetting process (co-workers, watchdog groups, local newspapers, etc) all said that they never even heard that she was being considered until two days before the pick was announced. So I'm inclined to believe that her vetting was, at best, minimal.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on November 10, 2008, 08:01:19 PM
Yeah, sorry, I was aiming at sarcasm and must've missed. 

I have little doubt that the vetting process for Palin was a joke.  Something MacGyver put together with a paperclip, a rubberband, and a can of Crystal Pepsi. 
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on November 10, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Yeah, sorry, I was aiming at sarcasm and must've missed. 

I have little doubt that the vetting process for Palin was a joke.  Something MacGyver put together with a paperclip, a rubberband, and a can of Crystal Pepsi. 

Except MacGyver would have made it work.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: DKT on November 10, 2008, 08:47:38 PM
Well, it did kind of blow up  ;)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 10, 2008, 09:30:48 PM
The problem is that they picked her to try to get conservatives and moderates on board, then tried to pigeon hole her into a role that she was unfit to fill.  Had they let her be the conservative side of the ticket, she probably would have come across as more likeable.  My conservative friends were excited about her all the way to election day.  They hated McCain.  If the McCain camp wanted Palin to turn out the conservative voters, they should have just turned her loose. 

Personally, I think McCain ran one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen.  Did he really think he'd win PA?  Did he think Palin would bring over Hillary Clinton's supporters?  All the years he spent being a "maverick" and bucking the Republican party, he enjoyed the support of a lot of the mainstream media.  Did he really think that was enough to win a presidential election? 

As far as likeablility goes, I preferred Obama over McCain.  If McCain had come across as angry but substanitive, I think he'd have run a better campaign.

I cast my 3rd party vote proudly.  My only true disappointment from the election is that the Democrats gained control of Congress as well as the White House.  I'm all for legislative gridlock.  I loved the impeachment of Bill Clinton.  Not because they "got" Clinton, but because they were so busy fighting each other that they left us alone.

Now is the time for a legitimate third party to start a grass roots movement and secure seats at all levels of government.  The Republican party is falling apart.

Oops.  Sorry, got a little long winded there.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Talia on November 10, 2008, 10:44:00 PM
well, legislative gridlock wouldnt exactly be the way to help the country fix its epic problems, heheh.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 10, 2008, 11:03:32 PM
well, legislative gridlock wouldnt exactly be the way to help the country fix its epic problems, heheh.

IMO, it's a sight better than what we've got.   ;)
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: deflective on November 10, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
how do you resolve that with the general opinion that it's the lack of bank regulation ignited the economic meltdown?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 11, 2008, 12:01:06 AM
I generally don't find the "general opinion" to be a good enough reason to believe something.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: deflective on November 11, 2008, 12:53:07 AM
is there a theory that you prefer over the one the economists believe? or do you just refuse to consider something that challenges your worldview?
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 11, 2008, 03:16:23 AM
is there a theory that you prefer over the one the economists believe? or do you just refuse to consider something that challenges your worldview?

Now you are attributing it to economists?  I thought it was the general opinion.  I don't listen to talking heads on tv.  There were other things that contributed to this, as has been shoved in my face when I said it was greedy bankers.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: deflective on November 11, 2008, 03:43:02 AM
you make a valid point, a term like 'general opinion' has such a broad definition that people can take it to mean pretty much anything they want.

the whole greedy banker thing is pretty much equivalent to saying unregulated banker. maybe you're a big government lover and just don't know it. =)

sorry if this is touching off of other conversations i'm not aware of. on the other hand, you can't be proud of willfully avoiding the issues and still have your opinion carry weight.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on November 11, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
My only true disappointment from the election is that the Democrats gained control of Congress as well as the White House. 

The Dems already had the House and the Senate.  They just substantially increased their majorities.


is there a theory that you prefer over the one the economists believe? or do you just refuse to consider something that challenges your worldview?

Now you are attributing it to economists?  I thought it was the general opinion.  I don't listen to talking heads on tv.  There were other things that contributed to this, as has been shoved in my face when I said it was greedy bankers.

If you actually want to know what happened from beginning to now in this whole meltdown, the place to go is the NPR Planet Money podcast (http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_detail.php?siteId=94411890).  It's been explaining the situation and they do it without treating you like an idiot.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 11, 2008, 04:10:24 PM
you make a valid point, a term like 'general opinion' has such a broad definition that people can take it to mean pretty much anything they want.

the whole greedy banker thing is pretty much equivalent to saying unregulated banker. maybe you're a big government lover and just don't know it. =)

sorry if this is touching off of other conversations i'm not aware of. on the other hand, you can't be proud of willfully avoiding the issues and still have your opinion carry weight.

It may not have come off correctly, but I was being a bit silly.  Greedy banker, greedy people trying to flip houses...  The greedy bankers made BAD LOANS and lost money on them.  I was against the government bail out.  Let the insurance companies and banks go out of business for their mistakes.  I will check out Nash's link sometime tonight, so I don't want to go into that stuff too much. 

Also, I knew the Dems had the House and Senate already.  I should have said retained for that. 
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Russell Nash on November 11, 2008, 05:49:01 PM
you make a valid point, a term like 'general opinion' has such a broad definition that people can take it to mean pretty much anything they want.

the whole greedy banker thing is pretty much equivalent to saying unregulated banker. maybe you're a big government lover and just don't know it. =)

sorry if this is touching off of other conversations i'm not aware of. on the other hand, you can't be proud of willfully avoiding the issues and still have your opinion carry weight.

It may not have come off correctly, but I was being a bit silly.  Greedy banker, greedy people trying to flip houses...  The greedy bankers made BAD LOANS and lost money on them.  I was against the government bail out.  Let the insurance companies and banks go out of business for their mistakes.  I will check out Nash's link sometime tonight, so I don't want to go into that stuff too much. 

Also, I knew the Dems had the House and Senate already.  I should have said retained for that. 

I'm all for letting jackasses hang for doing stupid shit, but in this case it's different.  When you listen to that podcast, you'll understand why.  The scope is just way out of hand.  The amount of money involved is approximately 12 times the US GDP.  They're totally insane numbers we're dealing with today.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: wintermute on November 11, 2008, 05:51:50 PM
I was against the government bail out.  Let the insurance companies and banks go out of business for their mistakes.
I think we tried that in 1929. Didn't turn out so good, if I recall...
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 11, 2008, 11:28:23 PM
It coulda been more of an auction, with the gov't as the opening bidder.
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Heradel on November 11, 2008, 11:45:48 PM
It coulda been more of an auction, with the gov't as the opening bidder.

Which they didn't do because there was no way to price the value of those assets because the market (which already works as an auction) had stopped working. No one in the private sector wanted them because they were viewed as toxic. Now, the Gov't could have placed a bet of X amount, but they would have been buying assets of unknown value for a probably inflated price. Paul Krugman (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/), who won the Nobel in Economics this year, had some blog posts and columns in the NYT about this. Basically the direct injection of capital by buying preferred stock and giving out lines of credit was/is the safer option for taxpayer dollars.

And they have been facilitating mergers left and right in order to keep more companies from failing.

Edit: And to go against the original point, the NYT has a front-page-of-website-probably-front-page-of-paper-tomorrow story about falling gas prices (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/business/worldbusiness/12oil.html?hp).
Title: Re: Presidential Debate Delay Rant
Post by: Zathras on November 12, 2008, 03:03:28 AM
I was hoping my slang would have gotten across the point that I knew it was a pipe dream.

And, just for the record, I used to be an anarchist.  Any government that I'm willing to accept is a huge leap for me.  (Yes, I know the difference between anarchy and nihilism, too!)