Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Russell Nash on September 27, 2008, 08:23:21 PM
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EP177: Usurpers (http://escapepod.org/2008/09/27/ep177-usurpers/)
By Derek Zumsteg (http://www.zumsteg.net/).
Read by Stephen Eley.
Audible.com Promotion!
Get your free audiobook at: http://audible.com/escapepodsff (http://audible.com/escapepodsff)
King spots a knock-off cluster, glowing sunny in the rain, too fit, perfectly proportioned. Tear off some burnished bronze, never-burning skin. Shove it under a microscope, see the designer signature, Chinese characters like tattoos on the necks of college girls.
All ten ranked cross-country runners this season took family trips to China after school let out last year. When they’d returned and established dominance, King took the Asics guy up on his offer to join the experimental training program. Found himself running by himself, following daily instructions from an email address. King knows there’s a machine on the other end, some oracle in some data center chewing on his performance data full time. Responds only to email, immediately, all hours.
Rated PG. Contains strong emotions and moderate violence.
Rated R. Contains strong language, strong emotions, and moderate violence.
(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://media.rawvoice.com/escapepod/media.libsyn.com/media/escapepod/EP177_Usurpers.mp3)
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Certainly guilted me into running on a dreary, 20 degree (C), New York day. I liked it.
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Loved it, as my comment under the story read, but I have a quibble here with the rating.
The line "Un-F-Bomb-believable" is at the very beginning of the story. I'm not bothered, and I never check ratings except for the novelty factor, but this thing is listed as PG. Language might be an issue for some, and I'd hate to see such a great story tainted by somebody getting angry after sharing it with their ten-year-old.
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Loved it, as my comment under the story read, but I have a quibble here with the rating.
The line "Un-F-Bomb-believable" is at the very beginning of the story. I'm not bothered, and I never check ratings except for the novelty factor, but this thing is listed as PG. Language might be an issue for some, and I'd hate to see such a great story tainted by somebody getting angry after sharing it with their ten-year-old.
Thank you, Dave. I wasn't thinking straight about that, and had honestly forgotten about the language. Changing it now.
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Very nice, I enjoyed it, got involved, wanted King to win though I think a lot of that was due to Steve’s reading. Steve made it exciting.
During the story I was periodically distracted by my own horror at the effort these guys and their parents were putting into running. There was kind of an OCD element in it for me. People were obsessed with something that was useless and pointless - since they weren’t running or getting gene modifications for health reasons. What’s up with that? Why is running, winning a race, important or interesting? If the runners had put half that much effort into learning they might have changed the world. In the end all the running was for nothing. Well, King might get a scholarship, then run for 4 years in college, then what was he gonna do with his life? Not run for a living. All that effort and pain for what? A plastic crown?
I’m sure that Steve is right about the importance of exercise but I’m incapable of finding competitive sports important. For me sports are something I click away from when it shows up on TV. When I realized the podcast had a sports theme I almost clicked it off but in the end I enjoyed the story. What I didn’t enjoy was the underlying assumption that sports justify sacrifice and suffering. I just don’t get that. Maybe you have to be into sports or have a Y chromosome. (I expect some denials from XX's who enjoy them too.)
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WW! lvd ths stry! :D
Seriously, this is my favorite EP since Me and My Shadow.
Steve's reading was phenominal! Only problem with the narration was that Steve missed the "white boy trying to be ghetto" wassup. Should have been more wazzzzzzuuuup! Check out the Bud Light commercials.
This was scifi at it's best. It had the science to qualify, but was centered around a character's confrontation with it.
I felt the pace of the story was perfect. I was racing along with the story, anticipating the finish, but not the impossible time.
The training and sacrifices made, especially by such an egomaniac, show just how important this race is to King.
I found the pre-race insults 100% in tune with teenaged boys. I was one, and have one living in my home.
Mr. Zumsteg did an outstanding job of making me root for a character that I normally would despise, The Arrogant Jock.
Thanks for getting this one, Steve!
vn f t ws lt ::)
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People were obsessed with something that was useless and pointless
You mean something like a scifi podcast?
I don't know what your hobbies are, but I'm sure there are people who would find them useless and pointless.
Hell, I find some of my hobbies to be useless and pointless.
On that note, GO CUBS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't know what your hobbies are, but I'm sure there are people who would find them useless and pointless.
Hey, at least I enjoy my useless and pointless hobbies. The runners were just suffering.
OLYMPIC PERFORMERS FACED SACRIFICE -- AND ADULT DIAPERS (http://www.nypost.com/seven/08192008/sports/olympics/olympic_performers_faced_sacrifice____an_125157.htm)
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Steve's reading was phenominal! Only problem with the narration was that Steve missed the "white boy trying to be ghetto" wassup. Should have been more wazzzzzzuuuup! Check out the Bud Light commercials.
Thank you for the kind words. But for what it's worth, my not doing the "wassup" that way was deliberate. For one thing, the story's set at least several years in the future, and the teenagers of that time would not remember or care about the Bud commercials. For another, if I tried to copy it too closely, too many of today's listeners would think "Steve's trying to do the Bud commercials?" That would be a distracting thought and break the attention out of the narration for at least a few moments.
And for a third, I can't stand those commercials. >8-P
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Loved this Episode, so much so that I got motivated to post on these forums for only the 3rd story. This story and Steve's outro hit home for a few reasons.
1) Admittedly it's been 10 years since I ran High School XCountry (very slowly), but maybe it was because I was in the back of the pack, but I don't remember things getting rough at all! ;)
2) When I was running, I wieghed about 190 lbs. After 5 years of undergrad I weighed about 220. I'm in my 6th year of grad school, and at my nadir (apex?) I weighed about 250. So last month I decided to get back into running... slowly. There are monthly 5k runs in my area to feed my competitive nature but they're relaxed enough not to be discouraging.
3) Since I started running there have been a number of beneficial side effects besides having lost 15 pounds. Ironically I have more energy. I'm eating healthier because it's just easier to run with a better diet, and I'm more focused on my research.
Keep up the running and so will I, Steve!
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Hey, at least I enjoy my useless and pointless hobbies. The runners were just suffering.
Talk to a competitive runner. The suffering is a deep part of the enjoyment.
I think that carries through in the story: "Unexpected joy." And the emotional reaction to the clock, and the moment of silence. The way I read the story, King's happiness and fulfillment at the end are as absolute as his determination. They would not be possible without it. King is happier at winning than Steve would have been, because King put his entire being into it and paid a higher price for it.
That's not exclusive to athletics. I have several activities and passions which sometimes cause me a significant amount of pain. Podcasting is occasionally one of them. Lack of sleep, locked knees... I'm not going to whine about it. Some weeks are simply harder than others. I never made that a factor in whether I should do it.
My recent exercise kick is another. I don't push myself close to any breaking points, but I do try to keep it from being easy. If I didn't feel my outro rant was already going on too long, one thing I would have said was: "Oh, and yes, it is really hard for me to do this. That's a point in its favor. It makes the endorphin high that much better. And I really feel we should do things that are hard. If we don't, we'll eventually get worse and worse at the easy things."
I have more direct examples, but they're out of scope and probably TMI. (Some of you who've really paid attention can probably guess.) Point is: pain and enjoyment are not opposed. Within the right context, they can complement each other, or even be mutually essential.
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Steve's reading was phenominal! Only problem with the narration was that Steve missed the "white boy trying to be ghetto" wassup. Should have been more wazzzzzzuuuup! Check out the Bud Light commercials.
Thank you for the kind words. But for what it's worth, my not doing the "wassup" that way was deliberate. For one thing, the story's set at least several years in the future, and the teenagers of that time would not remember or care about the Bud commercials. For another, if I tried to copy it too closely, too many of today's listeners would think "Steve's trying to do the Bud commercials?" That would be a distracting thought and break the attention out of the narration for at least a few moments.
And for a third, I can't stand those commercials. >8-P
Ah, I'll agree with 2 and 3, and that's enough. Unfortunately, you can still hear whiteboyz saying wazzup. Ugg.
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People were obsessed with something that was useless and pointless
You mean something like a scifi podcast?
I don't know what your hobbies are, but I'm sure there are people who would find them useless and pointless.
Hell, I find some of my hobbies to be useless and pointless.
On that note, GO CUBS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, WTF? I think a lot of our own interests would be "useless and pointless" to others. My son spends tons of time practicing soccer when he won't play competitively after this year. I spend time in the gym pumping iron when I sit on my ass all day at my job. Different strokes for different folks.
Loved the story, too. A couple things didn't make sense to me and I was distracted during my listen but I'll listen again.
And this transplanted cheesehead would like to counter Zathras' closing cheer with my own: GO BREWERS GO! It's been 26 years.
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There are two socio-political elements that are implicit to story of the world that just rubbed me the wrong way:
If this story is a near future story, you'd think the rich parents would still link China with lead paint and bad milk and wouldn't dare risk their precious spoiled children there.
What would the FDA and HLS say about mutants, potentially giant petite dishes for new epic plagues, coming into the country? I think there would be some pretty heavy bans.
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Very nice, I enjoyed it, got involved, wanted King to win though I think a lot of that was due to Steve’s reading. Steve made it exciting.
During the story I was periodically distracted by my own horror at the effort these guys and their parents were putting into running. There was kind of an OCD element in it for me. People were obsessed with something that was useless and pointless - since they weren’t running or getting gene modifications for health reasons. What’s up with that? Why is running, winning a race, important or interesting? If the runners had put half that much effort into learning they might have changed the world. In the end all the running was for nothing. Well, King might get a scholarship, then run for 4 years in college, then what was he gonna do with his life? Not run for a living. All that effort and pain for what? A plastic crown?
I’m sure that Steve is right about the importance of exercise but I’m incapable of finding competitive sports important. For me sports are something I click away from when it shows up on TV. When I realized the podcast had a sports theme I almost clicked it off but in the end I enjoyed the story. What I didn’t enjoy was the underlying assumption that sports justify sacrifice and suffering. I just don’t get that. Maybe you have to be into sports or have a Y chromosome. (I expect some denials from XX's who enjoy them too.)
Useless and pointless to you, perhaps, but competitive athletics are a huge part of human culture. They're also the key to an education for a lot of people who couldn't afford one otherwise.
I dunno, I guess equating value with what one will do for a living seems crazy to me. Why post on message boards? Why write? Why create art? The competitive nature alone is enough for a lot of people to enjoy sports, even if they'll never make a dime playing them.
And your link wasn't about athletics, it was about a performance prior to an athletic event orchestrated by a totalitarian government. Not quite the same thing.
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And this transplanted cheesehead would like to counter Zathras' closing cheer with my own: GO BREWERS GO! It's been 26 years.
26 years? Why do you think I'm a scifi fan? 100 years. I'm a little concerned, though, I swore I wouldn't die until after the Cubs won the World Series, figured it was my ticket to immortality.
Kidding aside,
I didn't really consider the full ramifications of having modifications done in China. Didn't one of the Bond movies propose Cuba as the most advanced medical community?
I listened to this again. I hadn't realized just how vicious and animalistic I felt the first time. I knew the story was ruthless, but the second time around I looked more at how I felt.
It connected with me in a similar manner as Fight Club. I remember thinking that Conversations with and about my Electric Toothbrush made me think of Fight Club as well. Gonna let this thought stew for a while and see if I can pinpoint why.
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If this story is a near future story, you'd think the rich parents would still link China with lead paint and bad milk and wouldn't dare risk their precious spoiled children there.
I'm not a rich person, but I know rich people, and I also worked for a while in the international division of UPS. I've seen the research, and so have a lot of rich parents: China is gearing up to completely kick our asses at technology and industry on almost all fronts. The United States falling back to #2 superpower within the next decade is practically inevitable. Smart investment is already moving there as fast as it can. "Lead paint" and similar issues are on the other end of the industrial food chain, and wouldn't concern people going there for high-end cleanroom biotech. It'd be like refusing to come to the US as a tourist because the news says some buildings here still have asbestos.
What would the FDA and HLS say about mutants, potentially giant petite dishes for new epic plagues, coming into the country? I think there would be some pretty heavy bans.
I think you mean "petri dishes," but that's an interesting point. The story doesn't delve enough into the technology to say whether or not this would be a risk. However, if there's one constant about bureaucracy, it's that it's reactive, not proactive. If this "gene doping" tech was new at the time of the story, it could easily be a few years before the government got its act together enough to clamp down on it. Athletic associations would move faster but not instantly. As for disease, I would be very surprised if any laws or regulations got passed about it until an epidemic actually happened.
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What would the FDA and HLS say about mutants, potentially giant petite dishes for new epic plagues, coming into the country? I think there would be some pretty heavy bans.
I think you mean "petri dishes," but that's an interesting point. The story doesn't delve enough into the technology to say whether or not this would be a risk. However, if there's one constant about bureaucracy, it's that it's reactive, not proactive. If this "gene doping" tech was new at the time of the story, it could easily be a few years before the government got its act together enough to clamp down on it. Athletic associations would move faster but not instantly. As for disease, I would be very surprised if any laws or regulations got passed about it until an epidemic actually happened.
There is that line about how drugs have to be kept below certain levels, which to me makes it seem like there's some sort of liberalization of the rules to allow medications and modifications — even if performing the operations is banned in the US. And the Government's bureaucracy can also fall down on the job, the current Wall St. crisis was caused by the lax efforts of the regulators rather than the regulations. There were some bad regulations passed and good ones repealed, but the SEC's dereliction of duty with regulating was the major issue.
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i enjoyed this one. a protracted action sequence can be a lot of fun in a short story and this had an interesting style.
chances are good that we're gonna see some olympic records beat by paralympic athletes as prosthetics improve to the point that they're an advantage.
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True story: This ended about 5 minutes before I got to work, so I set my DAP to shuffle all music, as I normally do when I don't have a podcast to listen to. The song that got me the rest of the way to work this morning?
Eye of the Tiger.
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Loved the story, reminded me a lot of Stephen King's The Long Walk. Great writing, very interesting style and ofcourse Steve is allways great at reading stories
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chances are good that we're gonna see some olympic records beat by paralympic athletes as prosthetics improve to the point that they're an advantage.
Probably some Paralympics records but not olympic records. I doubt they'll start letting people with prostheics in. A 400M sprinter named Pistorius who ran with blades because he lost his lower legs was denied entry into the Beijing Olympics:
According to the IAAF report, the "mechanical advantage of the blade in relation to the healthy ankle joint of an able bodied athlete is higher than 30-percent." Additionally, Pistorius uses 25-percent less energy than average runners due to the artificial limbs, therefore giving him an unfair advantage on the track.
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I loved the full contact cross country of this one and thought it was well written. But I think this is one of the few EP stories I wish I had read instead of heard. The fragmented, almost hardboiled sentences seem to be a hard thing to pull off in audio, and while I thought Steve did a good reading, it sounded less tough than I imagine it would read. (I'm a huge James Ellroy fan, I love his broken, clipped, hardboiled sentences. But they never sound as good when I try and read them aloud to someone else.)
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Liked it but I think that was structural. I'm not convinced that encouraging/allowing people to do this to themselves is a good idea. King sounds like he had a serious psychiatric condition. I can't imagine what professional sports must be like in King's universe.
And who/what was on the other end of his email? That's scary.
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EP177: Usurpers (http://escapepod.org/2008/09/27/ep177-usurpers/)
By Derek Zumsteg (http://www.zumsteg.net/).
Read by Stephen Eley.
Audible.com Promotion!
Get your free audiobook at: http://audible.com/escapepodsff (http://audible.com/escapepodsff)
Isn't about time Stephen pointed out that this offer is NOT available in some countries (the UK for example)?
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I think the story was too long to really support the sentence-fragment style of writing, at least as an audio presentation. The story was interesting. My college roommate ran cross-country and it appeared to be pretty draining.
I suppose the underdog winning was inevitable.
I think this story would have been just as good if it didn't involve SF.
I lost the thread of the whole Asics guy calling King and putting him into a program. There was no payoff to that whole part of the storyline, IMO.
Not bad.
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Audible.com Promotion!
Get your free audiobook at: http://audible.com/escapepodsff (http://audible.com/escapepodsff)
Isn't about time Stephen pointed out that this offer is NOT available in some countries (the UK for example)?
Why should I? It's not my podcast. But okay -- this offer is not available in some countries. You're welcome.
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Audible.com Promotion!
Get your free audiobook at: http://audible.com/escapepodsff (http://audible.com/escapepodsff)
Isn't about time Stephen pointed out that this offer is NOT available in some countries (the UK for example)?
Why should I? It's not my podcast. But okay -- this offer is not available in some countries. You're welcome.
It depends on how many international listeners there are, and we don't have those numbers. We do have a rough count of the international forumites (http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=137440464359), and it's mostly US-based, with some UK.
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Why should I? It's not my podcast. But okay -- this offer is not available in some countries. You're welcome.
Identity Theft..cool.
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Heh. I swear, I have 100% opposite tastes to everyone else on here.
Not one of my favorites. I mean it seemed to be well written, but the language was.. I donno if it was a little dense for me, or just that I was having a hard time following the sci fi aspects of it. I was very hazy on what exactly was going on. I mean, I guess some of them had some sort of implants or injections or something? And King had some sort of special training? To me this was at core a sports story, the sci fi aspects just squeezed in here and there in such a way I couldn't really see how they were affecting things. I mean I think you could easily strip all references to any of the sci fi-ish stuff from it and pretty much have the identical story, just shorter.
Maybe I missed something. Maybe I need to listen to it again (though I don't want to..). Maybe I need to read it instead of listening.
As a nonathlete, this story had absolutely nothing I could identify with in any way. Maybe that's the issue. Maybe I'm not smart enough to get it cuz I'm out of shape :p
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Didn't it bug anyone else that the scentences seemed to be about 2 words apeice? It was so disjointed that I just couldn't follow it and skipped to the end about eight minutes in.
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not really, it actually felt familiar.
maybe that's just me.
maybe there is a division, those in sports and those who usually have time to complete their thoughts.
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Three differences between King and rich, gene-modded losers. King doesn't have money. King doesn't have mods. King can't think with pronouns.
I think this is the first EP story I genuinely detested. The King-this, King-that style grated on my nerves. It sounded too much like special glove-equipped gorilla from the movie Congo. Also, I just didn't care if he won or not. Maybe the race was unfair. Maybe the other runners used money, connections and dirty tricks to tip the scales in their favor. But other than being the underdog, there was almost no difference between the protagonist and antagonists. They were arrogant pricks who liked to crush the weak...He was an arrogant prick that liked to crush the weak. Not much difference there.
Maybe if he was one of those guys that was nice off the track (or out of the ring, or off the field) but turned into a raging monster for competitions, I might have understood him better. I've known amateur NHB fighters like that. But I just didn't see that in this story. I think the line that best summed him up--although it certainly wasn't meant to--was "...royal ass."
I definitely look forward to next week's promise of different words in a different order.
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Heh. I swear, I have 100% opposite tastes to everyone else on here.
Not with me. I think exactly alike with you in this. I found it very hard consentrate to the story, thought it was very boring at places. And the science fictional aspect seemed slight. Maybe I should try to listen it again, but relistening that seems about as enthralling as visiting dentist's office. :)
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Ajames listens to story. Story terse, hard, real. Ajames breathes in, breathes out. No pain. Ajames has been training, listening to stories sent weekly via remote internet connection. Long stories, short stories, funny stories, sad stories, weird stories. Ajames is ready. Ajames hears a car approaching. It tries to pass him on the right. Ajames veers right. Car honks horn, pulls back, attempts to pass Ajames on the left. Ajames keeps even with car until past speed trap, then bursts ahead, veers left, slams on brakes. Other car turns out of way sharply, careems off road. Ajames suppresses a laugh, keeps focus on road. Blue and red lights flash. Ajames curses cell phones, feels heart beat quicken, skin flush. Ajames white, Caucasian. Police metal, robotic. Ajames has trained for this; Ajames has trained for everything. Pushes fear down, heads car towards top of high cliff.
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Thanks for the story Steve, very enjoyable, even if it might not be recommended for listening while commuting!
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Ajames: LOL!
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well played, ajames. I do believe I enjoyed your post sigificantly more than the story :D
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That was hilarious, ajames.
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I was going to do something along the lines of what Ajames did but now I will not. So far I am only about 10 minutes into it and the sentence fragment writing is bugging me. It sounds like King has morphed in to Tarzan.
Also, "Found himself running by himself, following daily instructions from an email address." would work better if "Found himself running alone ..." but that is just a nit to pick. I will finish the story before commenting further.
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I am having problems putting this into words but I will try.
I am currently fighting a respiratory infection, and I am at the point where the muscles in my chest are getting tired and sore.
Listening to this story made it hurt to breathe.
Sympathetic pains I know, but the first I’ve ever felt listening to Escape Pod.
The many stories on escape pod have affected me in a few ways:
Filled me with joy
Filled me with hope
Filled me with dread
Brought a few tears out
Plagued my dreams for days
But this is the first time a story has brought physical pain to me.
I’m pretty sure I don’t want to experience that again.
That being said, I largely enjoyed the story.
I did take issue with the ending.
Throughout the story the prose would vacillate from direct (when King is speaking about himself or his environment) and suggestive (when king is speaking of what his secretive trainers have done to him). So to take a suggestive tone when King is describing what happens after the race, although possibly literarily more effective, breaks the pattern that the author setup for King through the earlier parts of the story. It struck a bad chord with me.
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Absolutely-friggn'-loved it!
As an ex-runner/ex-wrestler I know about extreme training and running. Think running is hard? Try doing it in a plastic sauna suit to lose those extra 2 pounds and make weight right before a match. Talk about doing crazy things for the love of the sport and competition... Yeah, this story brought back good memories. And I also get that not everyone understood why you go through the pain. It's a personal thing and quite frankly there's no points for second place. That's why i spent long hours running at night, lifting weights, sweating. And what do I have to actually show for it? Box of 2 buck medals and after 20 years I'm still listed on my high schools "greatest wrestling team of all time" roster. It may not mean a lot to some people but at the olympic trials it's either you go to the olympics or you go home (hint: I didn't go to the olympics)
I actually thought the e-mail training coach was a brilliant addition because it's what gave him the edge over the enhanced athletes. It's even available today from a plethora of websites in a somewhat generic fashion (but if you go to www.nikeplus.com you'll see just how sophisticated and personalized these systems are getting). It was his extra training and sacrifice that beat the best enhancements money could buy. That's a huge message in today's "a pill will fix your problems" world.
As for the reading style - If you've ever watched sunday night football with John Madden you'll understand fragmentary sentences for 4 hours along with the occasional non-sequiter. I personally loved the style.
Great story!
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This one goes down as a dislike for me; the sentence fragment style was just too disjointed. I couldn't focus on the story because it.
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King has Bob Dole syndrome. Ajames really put in context what I absolutely hated about this piece. I absolutley hate people who talk in third person, especially when they are talking to theirselves. I could not even find I liked this person who was so concerned with others playing fair, then cheats to win. I wonder is the moral of the story, the end justifies the means... as long as it benifits you and not somebody else.
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And I also get that not everyone understood why you go through the pain. It's a personal thing and quite frankly there's no points for second place.
Or as I've heard it said, "'Second place' is just the first loser." ;D
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King has Bob Dole syndrome. Ajames really put in context what I absolutely hated about this piece. I absolutley hate people who talk in third person, especially when they are talking to theirselves. I could not even find I liked this person who was so concerned with others playing fair, then cheats to win. I wonder is the moral of the story, the end justifies the means... as long as it benifits you and not somebody else.
King isn't speaking in third person, though. It's not a first-person via third-person narrative. It's simply a third person narrative that replaces most pronouns with the direct article.
Also, how does King cheat to win?
I dunno, it seems like I'm the only one who likes it when Escape Pod runs sports stories. This story is absolutely amazing to me, and if you haven't tried it yet put it on while you're doing a run. The staccato pacing matches up almost perfectly with running a few miles, and even starts to taper a bit at the end when King would be tiring.
There's just so much to like here. Sci-fi social commentary, a retelling of the John Henry tale, a truly fascinating character, a unique voice in Zumsteg's writing, and all fit within a very basic story formula.
This is the only story from Escape Pod I've ever listened to more than three times, and every time I hear it I find something new or interesting in either the way it's written or in the subject matter.
I'd recommend everyone give this story a go while running. Maybe it'll help people follow the pace better, which can be daunting in audio form.
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I'm on the team that disliked this story. I do appreciate the style and I'm all for trying different ways of telling stories, but it shouldn't have been for the entire length of the story. Perhaps it would work better when I'm running, but any fiction that needs that kind of help is in trouble as far as I'm concerned. In hindsight, I could see the effect being useful during the actual running of the race.
Also, how does King cheat to win?
I think throwing the elbow would be where I start. And to pre-empt any "But at that level they all do it" reply, let me just say "That's still cheating" and "No they all don't, some athletes have integrity"
I dunno, it seems like I'm the only one who likes it when Escape Pod runs sports stories.
If you haven't already, you should head over to Podcastle and get "Anywhere There's a Game". Decent story and sports related. I enjoyed it.
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Once again we have another sport I'm not interested in in a story I really enjoyed. I found this to be a really tense story that had me gripping the steering wheel a little harder, and pushing down on the gas pedal a little bit heavier than normal.
I found King to be somewhat, no make that very, unlikable, but compared to the genetically altered kids, I could not help but root for him. The story seemed just harsh enough that he could actually lose the race despite the fact that success would be artistically correct (for lack of a better term)
One thing I did not totally get; It was stated that the shoes stolen from the modded kids were designed for their running style, right? So how did King know which person shared his exact running style to allow him to get the benefits of using them? Am I off on the idea that the shies were made for each individual, or was it just the knowledge that he stole them that gave him a psychological edge?
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My earlier whimsical post was really just whimsy - I did enjoy this story. The style grated upon me at first, but after awhile I adjusted and then got into it.
I ran cross country competitively in high school and not so competitively in college, and the scholarships, prestige, pressure, and cheating put this story somewhere in the future for me more than anything else. Maybe other cross country runners have different experiences than I did?
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I am not sure how this is going to sound but her goes anyway. Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
The Tarzan speak ruined the story for me.
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I am not sure how this is going to sound but her goes anyway. Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
The Tarzan speak ruined the story for me.
It's possible. I'm sure some of them would. But I think there are still a bunch of rich parents who have their egos tied to sports for whatever reason (they played and failed/suceeded themselves, living vicariously through their children, or just want that kind of glory) that I was able to buy into it.
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One thing I did not totally get; It was stated that the shoes stolen from the modded kids were designed for their running style, right? So how did King know which person shared his exact running style to allow him to get the benefits of using them? Am I off on the idea that the shies were made for each individual, or was it just the knowledge that he stole them that gave him a psychological edge?
Drawing back to my days of wrestling and football - if you study your opponents well enough, you'll start to know their styles. I watched hours of film and could tell you what moves a player would make or what plays a coach would call on 3rd and 7. If King was walking the course day and night and had been around these kids for a year in one form or another, I'm betting he could tell pretty quickly which ones matched his running style - besides which, exactly how many running styles are there? probably a dozen or so - it may not have been a perfect fit, but it's probably better than a pair of cross-trainers.
Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
My thoughts on this one is that rich may not have meant "wealthy" and they only had a certain amount to spend on their kids. We all want the best for our kids, but when it comes time to buy them a car not a lot of them get a Hummer or Ferarri - so it was probably a pick of what enhancements they can afford.
As to why physical over mental? This story seemed to be in the near future. Physical characteristics are easy to manipulate. We know what genes are responsible to a degree for fast muscle twitch, bigger muscles, strength, etc. Not to start a flaming war (oh, those words...*sigh*) but you can isolate certain racial characteristics and certain genomes seem to have a larger proportion of physical strength as exhibited by what you might see in the sports world. Or to put it a little differently - if you have two tall people and they produce a child - chances are the kid is going to be tall. If you have two genius parents with a kid - there's no guarantee the kid will be the next Newton.
I'm sure trying to manipulate a kid's intelligence would be extremely difficult, especially as how we've not really even mapped out the workings of the brain.
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One thing I did not totally get; It was stated that the shoes stolen from the modded kids were designed for their running style, right? So how did King know which person shared his exact running style to allow him to get the benefits of using them? Am I off on the idea that the shies were made for each individual, or was it just the knowledge that he stole them that gave him a psychological edge?
I missed the part where he stole the shoes? ???
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I loved it... The athletic theme is something that has become important to me in the past few years. I'm afraid I'm the standard physics type who saw a bit too much of the great indoors. More I have become good friends with a professional athlete and have come to appreciate her focus and her intensity. The story reminded me of her ...
It turns out that unless you are really good and can find corporate sponsorship, doing well in many sports means having wealthy parents or finding a spouse of means. Most athletes give up quite a bit of what many of us enjoy following their own path. In some ways her journey is similar to mine in physics (although physics pays more)
Since this crowd loves stories I offer a beautiful little true story.
Colleen struggles trying to find sponsors - anything from a company to $25 from a fan. A few months ago she was scouted to appear on the TV show Wipeout - a strange show with a Japanese flavor that has people running an obstacle course. The winner collects some money and some of the others may get a bit of exposure. She agreed and was injured in the process. I blogged her appearance, proud friend that I am, and went on. But an amazing thing happened. Someone stumbled onto my blog, read the post and showed it to her daughter. A comment was made and hearts melted. My wife collected the various threads and guest posted to Colleen's blog...
http://www.6footsix.com/my_weblog/2008/09/the-silver-lining-of-bounce-crash-and-splash.html
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Initially, I found this story hard to understand - it took me a couple of minutes to adjust to the writing style and I missed out on some of the background. But once that passed, I really did enjoy the writing a lot.
But from a storyline, rather than writing, point of view, I didn't enjoy this story so much. While I go to the gym regularly, and I enjoy working out quite a lot, I am not a sports fan. I enjoy performing physical exercise, not watching it, nor particularly hearing about it. Now, there have been sports stories I liked, but those are stories that use sports as a setting. This story boiled down an entire class struggle into an athletic competition, and I couldn't relate to that. Worse, I found the fact that King has to resort to physical violence at several points to severly detract from my enjoyment. I can, to some degree, appreciate the ideal of an athletic competition, but I cannot sympathize with the "let's do anything we can to win" attitude of this story. The fact that the opponents were cheating in a different way did not make King's behavior more appealing to me.
Plus, "if you just want it bad enough, you can overcome any physical barrier" is a somewhat overplayed trope.
So, overall, well-written, but not my cup of tea.
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One thing I did not totally get; It was stated that the shoes stolen from the modded kids were designed for their running style, right? So how did King know which person shared his exact running style to allow him to get the benefits of using them? Am I off on the idea that the shies were made for each individual, or was it just the knowledge that he stole them that gave him a psychological edge?
Drawing back to my days of wrestling and football - if you study your opponents well enough, you'll start to know their styles. I watched hours of film and could tell you what moves a player would make or what plays a coach would call on 3rd and 7. If King was walking the course day and night and had been around these kids for a year in one form or another, I'm betting he could tell pretty quickly which ones matched his running style - besides which, exactly how many running styles are there? probably a dozen or so - it may not have been a perfect fit, but it's probably better than a pair of cross-trainers.
Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
My thoughts on this one is that rich may not have meant "wealthy" and they only had a certain amount to spend on their kids. We all want the best for our kids, but when it comes time to buy them a car not a lot of them get a Hummer or Ferarri - so it was probably a pick of what enhancements they can afford.
As to why physical over mental? This story seemed to be in the near future. Physical characteristics are easy to manipulate. We know what genes are responsible to a degree for fast muscle twitch, bigger muscles, strength, etc. Not to start a flaming war (oh, those words...*sigh*) but you can isolate certain racial characteristics and certain genomes seem to have a larger proportion of physical strength as exhibited by what you might see in the sports world. Or to put it a little differently - if you have two tall people and they produce a child - chances are the kid is going to be tall. If you have two genius parents with a kid - there's no guarantee the kid will be the next Newton.
I'm sure trying to manipulate a kid's intelligence would be extremely difficult, especially as how we've not really even mapped out the workings of the brain.
I figure the shoes were just an upgrade over the generic shoes he'd end up wearing if not for that. It seemed to me like a classical battle tale where someone steals the opposing side's armor when they have no other recourse. That he modifies the shoes externally implies he has changed them to suit his running style, too.
As for gene mods, he says they went with EPO and testosterone, basically the same performance enhancers we have now only triggered internally and therefore undetectable as they're produced naturally by the body.
Manipulating intelligence? Well, that doesn't work for a lot of reasons. One, this story doesn't work if the rich parents turn their kids into Math Bowl champions instead of XC runners. Two, manipulating intelligence in the near future seems unlikely due to the complicated and diverse mechanics of intelligence, as alluded to in the story itself by the risk involved in nerve work to limit the brain's perception of pain. Three, from the perspective of this story gene mod work is a method of sports enhancement in its current stage, and would not be extended to intelligence upgrades in such a nascent state.
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It's a storyteller's proverb that in the course of a long and active lifetime, you will play all the parts in a great story. For me, this was a great story. I've been the kid confronting economic disadvantage, I'm involved in an endurance sport and I'm currently a suburban parent, wrestling with all the questions of what you do for you child, what you leave for the child to do, and what you leave to plain chance. It was amazing to find so many of my personal struggles rolled into a single narrative. Thanks, Steve.
As for sports being pointless, yes they are, in a way. My sport is brevets -- non-competitive, long-distance bicyling events where the objective is to ride a pre-determined course along a series of checkpoints within a time limit. The short courses are 200 kilometers (125 miles) and the longest ones are the 1,200 kilometer (750 mile) monsters with 90-hour time limits, like the quadrennial Paris-Brest-Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Brest-Paris) event. There are no places, no podiums, no prizes and trust me, nobody outside a tiny group of cyclists cares. So in that sense, it's about as pointless as you can get. But for me, the lack of extrinsic reward is one of the best things about it.
I forget where I heard it, but my favorite endurance quotes says something to the effect of, "Edurance training is fundamentally simple. You go out, you hit the wall, and the wall moves back a few meters. Then you rest and recover and go out and hit the wall again." At the risk of lapsing into complete cliche', it's knowing how to move the wall that's the real prize. Finding within myself the ability to stay with a task for the sake of the task itself, discovering how to make myself do what I don't feel like doing, and learning to suffer because it is required by the activity are the things that bring me back to the bike year after year.
Over at Podcastle, one of the fables ended with the moral: "Everybody knows better. That's the problem, not the solution." Endurance training can help you develop the mental tools to do what you know to be better, even if there's some pain involved. As such, it can be part of the solution. At least that's how it's worked out for me.
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I am not sure how this is going to sound but her goes anyway. Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
The Tarzan speak ruined the story for me.
It's possible. I'm sure some of them would. But I think there are still a bunch of rich parents who have their egos tied to sports for whatever reason (they played and failed/suceeded themselves, living vicariously through their children, or just want that kind of glory) that I was able to buy into it.
And don't forget the rich parents who MADE their millions in sports.
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I am not sure how this is going to sound but her goes anyway. Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
Three answers:
- maybe there isn't yet IQ-boosting technology, or it isn't yet safe enough for bourgeois parents to risk it on their kids,
- maybe there is IQ-boosting technology, and the parents did get it for their kids, but it wasn't mentioned because it wasn't relevant to the story,
- as the story points out (and as I think is true generally) talent, whether natural or artificial, only gets you so far: you need hard work to really get anywhere difficult. So maybe the rich parents made the decision that even if they boost their kids' intelligence, they'll still be too lazy to compete intellectually, but they'll be able to succeed physically.
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I think someone mentioned this above, but are we sure the "rich" parents are actually rich? The race was for a scholarship, after all. Why would a rich kid need it?
Maybe physical gene enhancement is relatively cheap, so that it's a tactic middle class parents use to get their kids into really expensive schools, while poorer people like King can't afford it. From his perspective, the white kids are rich, but maybe they're "nice houses in the suberbs and parents in middle management" rich, not "mansions and CEO parents" rich.
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I am not sure how this is going to sound but her goes anyway. Wouldn't the rich parents who want to genetically modify their children opt for higher intelligence rather than physical characteristics? It appears to me that the lower income segment of today's society is the one that is looking for the physical based scholarships.
The Tarzan speak ruined the story for me.
Can you imagine the number of people who would get committed to insane asylums if super intelligence could be bought? My brain never stops running at 100mph. It's hard enough to deal with that when you've grown up with it. Dump it on someone who hasn't learned to cope and see how many people just crack.
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Ajames nailed the style and Batman did it better and in shorter bursts.
The fictional story of King pales compared to the true story of Dean Karnazes, the Ultramarathon Man. Read his book and you'll double the distances you run, just out of shame. This man ran 350 miles in 80 hours and 44 minutes, ran 50 marathons in 50 consecutive days, and ran a marathon at the South Pole!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Karnazes
Final Verdict: I'll read Miller's Dark Knight while on the treadmill before listening to this again.
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I think someone mentioned this above, but are we sure the "rich" parents are actually rich? The race was for a scholarship, after all. Why would a rich kid need it?
Maybe physical gene enhancement is relatively cheap, so that it's a tactic middle class parents use to get their kids into really expensive schools, while poorer people like King can't afford it. From his perspective, the white kids are rich, but maybe they're "nice houses in the suberbs and parents in middle management" rich, not "mansions and CEO parents" rich.
That's how I took it. "Rich" is a massively relative term -- it depends mostly on who your neighbors are. This comes up frequently in the Wall Street Journal's Wealth Report blog. If you live next door to "vacation mansions" and people who talk about the cost of maintaining a megayacht, even millions of dollars in income and tens of millions of dollars in assets can make you feel like a poor cousin. It was clear to me that King came from a household that would regard what I think of as my relatively modest suburban existence as "rich" by contrast.
Face it, if you've got an Internet connection and enough leisure time to mess around with Escape Pod, you're probably in the richest 1% of all people who have ever lived, as measured by access to health care, cultural and entertainment opportunities, ability to travel, education, sanitation, etc. And by those measures, probably the top 10%-20% of those alive right now. One of those things I should probably keep more firmly in mind than I often do.
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I think someone mentioned this above, but are we sure the "rich" parents are actually rich? The race was for a scholarship, after all. Why would a rich kid need it?
Maybe physical gene enhancement is relatively cheap, so that it's a tactic middle class parents use to get their kids into really expensive schools, while poorer people like King can't afford it. From his perspective, the white kids are rich, but maybe they're "nice houses in the suberbs and parents in middle management" rich, not "mansions and CEO parents" rich.
The race isn't for a scholarship, it's for the state championship. King is unsure of his scholarship prospects, but has the hope that by winning states over gene-dopers (and it is alluded to throughout the story that some people are quite aware of its prevalence among the wealthy).
Kentwood is called the #1 school district in terms of property values, so yeah, they really are the rich kids, not just the middle class kids.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
That said, I really enjoyed this story. It made me yern to go trail running again... I wonder if my knee would be ok with that? Anyhow, beautiful piece.
I ran track and CC in high school, among other sports, and sucked at them all equally. More than winning or losing I enjoyed the experience of it and learned great tangential lessons. I haven't competed in years, though I still enjoy supporting others who do, but I have always preferred 'hitting the wall and moving it back a few meters'. Our bodies are amazing machines capable of so much more than we give them credit for.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
...
That's what I was thinking the whole time. I was expecting King to die when he passed the finish line.
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Kentwood is called the #1 school district in terms of property values, so yeah, they really are the rich kids, not just the middle class kids.
Depends on what state you're in. If I don't live in Iowa's #1 property-value district, I'm pretty close, but we have few homes I'd describe as "CEO mansions," just a pretty solid wedge of middle to upper-middle class homes. What I'd consider "mansions" are mostly restored older mansions in the city, or estates scattered on the periphery. I suspect the pattern is similar in much of the Midwest. I understand things are different in the American Northeast.
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I know I'm a little late to this party, but I just finished listening to this episode while doing dishes and couldn't resist coming on here, registering myself for an account, and commenting. That's how much I disliked this story.
The concept was great, actually, the characters were intriguing, the plot was not really that dull (although not something I'd normally get excited about--not the author's fault on that one, I just don't like sports stories), but the way the author used language in this story just drove me up the wall. It's very difficult to follow such short choppy sentences in audio form, and the choppy flow of the story didn't seem to fit well with the fluidity of running. Even those of us too chubby to really move fluidly while running probably would warrant less choppy language describing our acts of running.
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As a runner I like this story. In high school (many years ago) I was that second place runner in the region, I beat the first place guy a couple of times, but by our senior year he out classed me. I felt vindicated, how awful am I to even think that, a few years later when he had a heart attack from too much speed. I think that was part of the story. All the drugs and enhancements in the world can only get you so far.
One other interesting note is that I ran in high school and college and now as an adult. High school was the only time I ever got hurt by other runners. I got spiked, tripped, push into trees gabbed in the ribs, foot stepped on, had "rabbits" sent out in front to hurt me at the beginning of a race, and watched a guy dive, literally dive, across the finish line on asphalt to get in front of me. In college, the worst I ever got was they sent four guys a head of us and after about 100 yards they turned around and squirted us with squirt guns. It was all in fun. Running now I am not as competitive, so maybe I just don't see it among the adults but I don't ever see anything, and certainly am not one the receiving end. The worst I ever got as an adult, was when I beat our Col by the one second promised, and I had a "commander directed appointment" The following day. (a drug test.) He had a funny sense of humor.
Sorry for the off subject discussion. In the end this was a good story, pretty realistic, and from a runners point of view, right on. Great narration Steve.
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It's very difficult to follow such short choppy sentences in audio form, and the choppy flow of the story didn't seem to fit well with the fluidity of running. Even those of us too chubby to really move fluidly while running probably would warrant less choppy language describing our acts of running.
Welcome Umamei (Umami?)!
I don't mean to criticize your view on the story, but it might be a matter of perspective that you didn't feel the writing style matching with the subject material. Running is a graceful sport under some lights, but under others it can feel every bit as mechanical as the writing in this story. Every motion is smooth and even in running, but your body shakes as your feet slam in to the ground and propel you forward. You focus and think in time with your breaths, like it or not.
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I listened to this story and then I immediately listened to it again. I liked it that much. Then I registered just to comment. This is the first escape pod I have listened to again immediately after first hearing it. I didn't even make it through three sentences of Steve's outro before I rewound.
I am not an athlete, but I was still pumping my fist for King!
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The ending was fabulous. The whole thing vaguly reminded me on an animatrix episods.. can't remembre the name right now- the one with the runner. The fragmented sentene style made me NUTS! I was riding my bike listening to this, and so it did sort of inspire me to push harder. However I had to stop a few times, go back, and relisten to really understand what was going on. WAY too fragmented. :P The end almost made it worth it.
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It's very difficult to follow such short choppy sentences in audio form, and the choppy flow of the story didn't seem to fit well with the fluidity of running. Even those of us too chubby to really move fluidly while running probably would warrant less choppy language describing our acts of running.
Welcome Umamei (Umami?)!
I don't mean to criticize your view on the story, but it might be a matter of perspective that you didn't feel the writing style matching with the subject material. Running is a graceful sport under some lights, but under others it can feel every bit as mechanical as the writing in this story. Every motion is smooth and even in running, but your body shakes as your feet slam in to the ground and propel you forward. You focus and think in time with your breaths, like it or not.
I agree that it is a matter of perspective, but I have to say that if "your body shakes as your feet slam in to the ground" then you're running all wrong, Thaurs. A runner doesn't glide on ice, but "pounding the pavement" is a euphemism. I took the choppiness to reflect more of King's sense of drive, his anger and competitive spirit.
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I have to say that while the structure and writing of this story drew me in, I was disappointed with the theme. The "winner of a cross country race" is not the one who tries hardest, risks the most, or has the most obstacles to overcome. The "winner" is the one who comes across the finish line first.
We can add all of the extra baggage onto what it means to "win" and get all figurative and abstract and metaphor-ladden, but I would have really liked to see how the author dealt with King had he lost the race, a-la-Mighty Casey Strikes Out.
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I agree that it is a matter of perspective, but I have to say that if "your body shakes as your feet slam in to the ground" then you're running all wrong, Thaurs. A runner doesn't glide on ice, but "pounding the pavement" is a euphemism. I took the choppiness to reflect more of King's sense of drive, his anger and competitive spirit.
I agree that the motion feels smooth, but if you think that even the best runners don't 'slam' in to the pavement when they run, try strapping video camera to your shoulder next time you go out. Landing flat footed kills your shins and knees and saps your energy, but it's the core muscles, coordination, and whatever it is that keeps your vision from shaking like a video camera that lets you feel like your motion is a lot more smooth than it is.
No matter how good a shoe, or stride, or how well one rolls from heel to toe, runners are shaking themselves to pieces.
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Someone commented that it bothered them that the protagonist and antagonists were pretty much the same: both ruthless, arrogant bastards. That bothered me too at first, but as I thought about it more, I realized that was the point.
This is King's sport, King's turf, King's subjects and King's races to win. Here come these lazy cheating lilly-white rich kids usurping the throne with money, not talent. King had the superior natural genetics and was on top of his sport; the usurpers got their suboptimal natural genes artificially augmented and tried to beat the king at his own game.
I was unnerved by King's underhanded tactics to get ahead in the race because you expect the underdog to have the moral high ground, that's how it works in fiction, because nobody sympathizes with an underdog who cheats to get ahead. King does not have the moral high ground, but he's also not an underdog. He's an ousted monarch attempting to retake the throne.
I wasn't a fan of the format. It was hard to follow. I don't know if that's just because I'm trained to follow more standard formats or if it's actually tougher to ascertain what's going on when all we have are someone else's thoughts. In any case, I missed some things I would ordinarily not miss, like the point of the vacations in China (thanks forum for pointing that out to me).
I also can't sympathize with the competitive spirit. I like to play friendly matches of basketball, as long as you don't take it too seriously or ask me to keep score; I always forget because I don't care. I can't push myself to train up to a competitive level because it's just not worth it to me. In that vein, I absolutely cannot understand competitive runners. With games like basketball there's a goal involved that justifies the pain of running; when running is the sport, there is only pain. If you get off on that, who am I to tell you what to enjoy? But I did not enjoy that part of the story at all, because I just don't get it on any level.
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Sorry for the double post; I wanted to qualify the final paragraph of my previous post, but since it was already pushing the TLDR threshold I decided to make a new one.
I'm not opposed to exercise. I've lost over 90 lbs in my lifetime, though diet of course but mostly through exercise. It was a major mental triumph for me to voluntarily go to the gym for 45 minutes of painful drudgery 3-5 times a week, but I did it and see the value in it. Of course, in the years since I've gained much of that back. I declared "mission accomplished" and went back to my sedentary ways. I just hate gyms so much!
So, now I'm biking. I ride my bike four miles a day, to school and work. I deliberately take a route that has me ride up a mile-long hill and then back down, even though routes of roughly equal distance are available that avoid the climb. I know what it is to make myself hurt because I know it's good for me, but I get no sense of fulfillment from it, and that's why I can't empathize with the characters in this story.
(On the plus side, I almost never drive. I can actually say "meh" to rising gas prices because they don't impact me that much.)
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
Brilliant. I totally missed that.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
Brilliant. I totally missed that.
Wait, King was black?
Seriously though, in regards to the comments above about rich white kids and property values... I lived near a wealthy part of town (Coto de caza, where Kobe Bryant of the Lakers had a mansion at one point) but most of us were probably average to upper middle class - I don't think there's the millionaire's neighborhood per say and just down the street were the condos and apartments, very few places are just blocks and blocks of CEO's and millionaires.
Now, that being said I've been accused a time or two of being a "rich kid" or having a 'rich kid" mentality. Mostly because growing up I always had food on the table, clothes on my back, and a few bucks in my wallet. Not a fancy car and not designer clothes, just a few basics and then some. As such I never let most things get to me, just did my own thing went to college and found a job I actually liked doing (yes, apparently liking your job is only something the rich do - if you're poor you must do a job you hate).
Probably just a pet peeve, but saying someone is rich is like saying someone is tall. There's always people taller and shorter than the person you're referring to. For that matter, most people who are "rich" don't look it, and most people who look rich really aren't. There's a great book called "The millionaire next door", which I highly recommend. It basically shows through various statistics that most people we call rich are actually "big hat, no cattle".
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
Brilliant. I totally missed that.
Wait, King was black?
At 5:40 in to the podcast King talks about the adjectives used and not used on him and Steve.
I have to admit that you had me REALLY worried. I didn't immediately recall where or how I knew that King was black and was bothered that I might have stereotyped the character's race just because he was a determined young man from a really poor part of town.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
John Henry was about man vs. machine. Not black man vs. white man. The racial issue as a focal point is revisionism.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
John Henry was about man vs. machine. Not black man vs. white man. The racial issue as a focal point is revisionism.
If you want to read a racial implication in to either story, that's up to you. I only meant it as a statement of fact to illustrate a coincidence.
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John Henry: Black man with determination VS. White man with technology.
John Henry was about man vs. machine. Not black man vs. white man. The racial issue as a focal point is revisionism.
I'm not sure it's reasonable to talk about "revisionism" with regard to fiction. By its very nature, a story must be re-interpreted by each person who hears it, and each member of the audience will bring their life-experience to bear on the interpretation. Different people will notice different things, and assign differing degrees of importance to various details.
I think the most important word in your sentence may have been, "was." Man vs. Machine may indeed have been the original intent of the author, but author's intent is a surprisingly weak force. I suspect it grows weaker as time moves on and the story is read well outside its original cultural context. Witness the radically different interpretations offered by people trying to understand really old texts, such as the Bible. People will -- maybe even must -- create their own "meanings."
As the storyteller's proverb puts it: "You can help pull the cork out of the bottle, but don't pretend for a moment you can control what happens next."
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As the storyteller's proverb puts it: "You can help pull the cork out of the bottle, but don't pretend for a moment you can control what happens next."
Great line. Where'd you hear it?
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As the storyteller's proverb puts it: "You can help pull the cork out of the bottle, but don't pretend for a moment you can control what happens next."
Great line. Where'd you hear it?
In a group of storytellers, I'm sure, but it's been years ago, and my memory can't pinpoint a specific group or event, much less a person. It's one of those expressions that "floats around" communities without attribution. I settle on "proverb" for sheer lack of precision. ;)
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I'm not sure it's reasonable to talk about "revisionism" with regard to fiction. By its very nature, a story must be re-interpreted by each person who hears it, and each member of the audience will bring their life-experience to bear on the interpretation. Different people will notice different things, and assign differing degrees of importance to various details.
Windup, thanks for saying this. I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't get a coherent thought past WTF? so I could post. Yay for you and your words saying what I meant so I don't have to!
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I'm not sure it's reasonable to talk about "revisionism" with regard to fiction. By its very nature, a story must be re-interpreted by each person who hears it, and each member of the audience will bring their life-experience to bear on the interpretation. Different people will notice different things, and assign differing degrees of importance to various details.
Yes and no. Perhaps the term is not the best one, since it implies a negative re-imaging of the text, when in fact, it may be merely a new perspective. Certainly the stream of literary criticism over time has varied. Schools of criticism have waxed and waned overtime. Certain texts have been considered in that metacritical context. And literary criticism itself (being literature) has been subject to the same forces. Some texts are very difficult to read today "fresh" that is, without the established critical reception of the work. Some are impossible to imagine in their original context. And then, of course, there is the whole "does the author matter?" idea.
While relativism is an important aspect of literary analysis - and there is definitely a person vs. establishment theme going these days, there is also something to be said for the establishment. It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
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It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
Just a side tangent - The remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo was probably hands down the absolute worst movie ever. New isn't always better.
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I'm not sure it's reasonable to talk about "revisionism" with regard to fiction. By its very nature, a story must be re-interpreted by each person who hears it, and each member of the audience will bring their life-experience to bear on the interpretation. Different people will notice different things, and assign differing degrees of importance to various details.
Yes and no. Perhaps the term is not the best one, since it implies a negative re-imaging of the text, when in fact, it may be merely a new perspective. Certainly the stream of literary criticism over time has varied. Schools of criticism have waxed and waned overtime. Certain texts have been considered in that metacritical context. And literary criticism itself (being literature) has been subject to the same forces. Some texts are very difficult to read today "fresh" that is, without the established critical reception of the work. Some are impossible to imagine in their original context. And then, of course, there is the whole "does the author matter?" idea.
While relativism is an important aspect of literary analysis - and there is definitely a person vs. establishment theme going these days, there is also something to be said for the establishment. It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
What I was reacting to was the implication that a story can "mean" one and only one thing. WillMoo asserted that since the racial dimension wasn't the original focus of John Henry, it was "revisionism" to bring it up. While I think the struggle between human strength and technology is a perfectly legitimate way to read John Henry, I think other interpretations and insights are also perfectly legitimate. I think storytelling is like fiddling with the environment: You can never do just one thing.
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It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
Just a side tangent - The remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo was probably hands down the absolute worst movie ever. New isn't always better.
Yeah, but then again, Romeo and Juliet is hands down the worst thing Shakespeare ever wrote. :P
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It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
Just a side tangent - The remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo was probably hands down the absolute worst movie ever. New isn't always better.
Yeah, but then again, Romeo and Juliet is hands down the worst thing Shakespeare ever wrote. :P
I dunno, there's The Taming of the Shrew to consider.
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It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
Just a side tangent - The remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo was probably hands down the absolute worst movie ever. New isn't always better.
Yeah, but then again, Romeo and Juliet is hands down the worst thing Shakespeare ever wrote. :P
Troilus and Cressida. Timon of Athens. Love's Labour Lost. The Two Gentlemen of Verona.
When you come down to it, only a small handful of Shakespeare's plays were actually any good...
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Francis Bacon
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It's true that modern analysis of Shakespeare's works (for example) can and do have new things to say about the text. It's also true that many things said about Shakespeare were said 100, 200 or 300 years ago and are just as valid today.
Just a side tangent - The remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo was probably hands down the absolute worst movie ever. New isn't always better.
Don't remember that one so much, but the remake of Romeo and Juliet with Claire Danes was Awesome :P
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I rather liked that Romeo & Juliet remake. It was rather stylized so I can see how it would not to be everyone's tastes, but it worked for me. (not to threadjack.. sorry)
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Listened to this one again. I think I may start listening to the previous episode every Thursday. After reading the discussion, I have a different perspective. Getting ready to listen to Unlikely.
As to King's ethnicity: "Adjectives not used to describe King: Black. African American."
Regarding the wealth of Steve and the other Kentwood students: "Steve's family frequently mentioned in stories. Of the Boston Presscotts. Implies good breeding, societal preapproval."
I don't think there was anything unethical about King's training. He followed the rules. He just trained smarter and harder.
I was also informed by my 15 year old god daughter that the wassup is moe like: whus ssuuh. As she is a teenager and thus 100000000000000 times cooler than I, I take her word on it.
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::avoids mad editing::
I don't know what a good cross country 3.2 mile time would be, but 9:59 would definately fall into the impossible range
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::avoids mad editing::
I don't know what a good cross country 3.2 mile time would be, but 9:59 would definately fall into the impossible range
Considering that Kenenisa Bekele has the current world record 5000m outdoor (Which is the standard championship length for 15-18 year olds in cross country running) at 12:37.35 I would tend to agree.
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::avoids mad editing::
I don't know what a good cross country 3.2 mile time would be, but 9:59 would definately fall into the impossible range
Considering that Kenenisa Bekele has the current world record 5000m outdoor (Which is the standard championship length for 15-18 year olds in cross country running) at 12:37.35 I would tend to agree.
I was basing my number on two things, the 3 minute mile and symbolism.
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Considering that Kenenisa Bekele has the current world record 5000m outdoor (Which is the standard championship length for 15-18 year olds in cross country running) at 12:37.35 I would tend to agree.
My god!
That's 4 minute miles!
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Hmmmm, I seem to remember liking this at the time I listened to it but now, about four or five hours later, not much of it has stuck in my mind. I did think the writing style worked in the story's favour, though it's one of those things that, like A Clockwork Orange, you have to get in synch with.
Unfortunately it had the opposite effect on me than it did on Our Dark Lord Eley in that it gave me a powerful craving for a big steak and a tub of ice-cream.
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That's what I was thinking the whole time. I was expecting King to die when he passed the finish line.
Same here. I was more than a little surprised he wasn't dead at the end... like maybe he'd died from his heart exploding at the entrance to the chute and that's why the crowd was silent as he saw the end of the race from the afterlife or something.
Really figured him for dead.
Pleasantly surprised he didn't die.
First post, had to - great story. I sat in the car finishing it off tonight.
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I happened to listen to this one during a particularly rigorous workout at the gym yesterday, so I found myself identifying with King (every time he mentioned the pain I felt it too---and for the first time, I didn't mind it) and Steve in the outro. I too am of the somewhat geeky persuasion who has found himself trying to lose a bit of weight and improve overall health.
And like Steve, I didn't join the gym for reasons of vanity. I was a bit overweight, but still smaller than many of the people around me. I was also quite healthy---the only measurements that would indicate otherwise were my weight and girth. However, I knew my weight wasn't great, and it seemed to be growing quicker than it ever had before.
Like Steve, my geekiness found a way to motivate me. I remember lying in bed one morning thinking that, ideally, I needed to lose about fifteen kilos. I figured fifteen kilos by Christmas wasn't a bad goal. That worked out to about 100 grams per day. That seemed easier. Of course, I needed to keep track of that properly, which meant weighing myself in much the same clothing and at the same time every day. I needed to record that, so I'd need to set up some sort of tabular file on the computer. I like to visualise things, so I'd need to be able to export the data to a graph... hmm, I thought. That gives me plenty of options. Which would be the best? So up I got out of bed and started to look at the various software on my computer which would take a list of numbers and dates and graph them appropriately. I also needed a line on the graph that could tell me how I was going with the 100 grams weight loss per day.
Here's the beauty of it---it was completely useless without data. The only way to get data was to weigh myself every morning before breakfast and record what I weighed. If my weight started to get away from my target line, I had to review what I'd been doing---had I been eating correctly? Had I exercised enough? A geeky obsession with keeping this graph up-to-date has had the very useful side effects of keeping my weight under control, and a healthier lifestyle all around.
Oh yeah, I liked the story.
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Like Steve, my geekiness found a way to motivate me. I remember lying in bed one morning thinking that, ideally, I needed to lose about fifteen kilos. I figured fifteen kilos by Christmas wasn't a bad goal. That worked out to about 100 grams per day. That seemed easier. Of course, I needed to keep track of that properly, which meant weighing myself in much the same clothing and at the same time every day. I needed to record that, so I'd need to set up some sort of tabular file on the computer. I like to visualise things, so I'd need to be able to export the data to a graph... hmm, I thought. That gives me plenty of options. Which would be the best? So up I got out of bed and started to look at the various software on my computer which would take a list of numbers and dates and graph them appropriately. I also needed a line on the graph that could tell me how I was going with the 100 grams weight loss per day.
Here's the beauty of it---it was completely useless without data. The only way to get data was to weigh myself every morning before breakfast and record what I weighed. If my weight started to get away from my target line, I had to review what I'd been doing---had I been eating correctly? Had I exercised enough? A geeky obsession with keeping this graph up-to-date has had the very useful side effects of keeping my weight under control, and a healthier lifestyle all around.
I think there may be a few people on the board with similar stories, I got one of the new iPod Touches last month for my birthday, and it has this sync software with www.nikeplus.com
Keeps track of your runs, distance and time, and the site has various challenges (run 10 miles a week, person with the fastest mile, etc.) that you can join. Since it tracks everything with a sensor in a nike shoe, it tends to keep you pretty honest - if you don't walk/run, there is no data. it's also pretty much automatic since when i sync the ipod it uploads the data at that time and I can see my workouts.
I do wish it had a weight chart too, but maybe that will be in the next version.
My main goal is 3 miles a day, which I do during lunch hour in the gym located in the basement of the office tower I work in. Good thing they've got showers.
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Hi all:
Slow coming to this discussion due to catching up on my EscapePods.....need to qualify my comments...I work every day as an Exercise Geneticist and have worked trying to help people becoming healthier with activity for almost 30 years - so this story hit several nerves with me...
1) The writing style - I've read all of the comments here about the writing style and yep, it bugged me too for awhile. But then realize that the author is a sportswriter (and is immersed in the sentence-fragment world), this is a sports-story and this is how sports-news is conveyed, and this is how athletes think.
2) The ego of the lead character. The author nailed that. To be an elite athlete and to get past all the other junk that happens when you perform, you've got to have a royal-ego. Most elite athletes, when questioned seriously, would admit that when it comes to 'their sport' they have that type of ego and those types of expectations (e.g. no one will take my turf from me!).
3) As to the genetics side of things....this story may be closer than many think and this almost makes it a horror story for me. And why is it closer than we think (and why might it not be legislated against)? B/c WADA and all of the other self-appointed guardians of the 'purity' of sport are clueless when it comes to gene-doping. They've held a couple of high-profile conferences when the biggest conclusion was that they'd outlaw 'anything not in the rules' (an actual quote from a WADA official). When pressed to explain, this official indicated that he'd outlaw carb-loading, enhanced running shoes, clothing, etc.
The real scary part about all of this? Gene-doping done correctly would be absolutely undetectable (absolutely).
4) This story was great b/c it mostly got all of the physiology right (except for the super blood cell augmentation - these guys would die with blood too thick - it has happened in the cycling world several times; and 'anaerobic' exercise - but that's a huge post).
5) And good for all of you that are more active now. If this story helped - SUPER! And since you are all geeks, the really cool stuff that is happening is showing that activity can positively affect your genetic coding. Roth and colleagues (Univ. of MD) just released a paper showing that people that are moderately active (150 mins/week - geez that's 30 mins/day for 5 days/week) have longer teleomerase regardless of age! So - another reason for geeks to be active? To outlive 'em all.....
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OK, I hated it.
First off, the guy was a total jerk. entitlement off the scale, intentionally rude to those who are trying to be nice, the very picture of bad sportsmanship.
I was impressed by his commitment to training and focus, but even with that, I couldn't bring myself to want him to win, I hated him so much.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he does have some enhancements, just not ones he defines as being the other guys things.
and then he wins, and it's over. no follow up or results or anything. anticlimactic.
not on my favorites list
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OK, I hated it.
First off, the guy was a total jerk. entitlement off the scale, intentionally rude to those who are trying to be nice, the very picture of bad sportsmanship.
I was impressed by his commitment to training and focus, but even with that, I couldn't bring myself to want him to win, I hated him so much.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he does have some enhancements, just not ones he defines as being the other guys things.
and then he wins, and it's over. no follow up or results or anything. anticlimactic.
not on my favorites list
You pretty well summed up my reaction to the Olympics this year. Although I had to cheer when a Tunisian beat Grant Hackett in the 1500 metre freestyle.
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Just wanted to say I listened to this story while working out at the gym. It really helped motivate me to finish my run. In fact, toward the climax of the story, I noticed that I was running far beyond my normal pace. Thanks for the cramps, Steve!
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered" The Prisoner
That quote sprung to mind while listening to this story.
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I loved this story, I've just started listening to escape pod and working my way backwards among the podcasts and must say this is one of my favorite so far. It's current, smart, and has really good flow. The talk of kings poor sportsmanship is unfair in my eyes. I would express myself the same way around cheaters. Personally, I feel strongly against doping, blooding, and the genetic tweaks. Here's my rule about cheating if a man in Kenya (Ukraine for winter sports) can't do it then neither should you. What is the point of winning by cheating it's a thing I have never understood.
The real reason I'm posting thou is that the talk about geek fitness made me want to share my creation with the escape pod community.
(http://www.deathincarnate.com/forum/attachments/n508903430_8276.jpg)
I call it the Game-a-tron-mill, get fit and play video games even better then the Wii.
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Dude. You need to listen to episode 183, like, right away :D Purely by virtue of your screenname :D
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Did loved it. Don't mess with peoples coffee a worthwhile lesson for everyone. Should probably play it for my roomate.
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Don't mess with peoples coffee a worthwhile lesson for everyone.
+1
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Didn't like this one so much. I didn't care who came in first. The racism was tired. And the Big Idea that the wealthy have access to technology that others don't is more than a little worn out. I mean it's happening now. People are talking about it now. It's not thought provoking.
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At the core, this was like almost every other sports story I've ever seen/heard read, especially the majority which are about poor kids trying to fight The Man. But it was made unique by the non-stop sentence fragments which made it very irritating to listen to, and an arrogant dickhead protagonist that I didn't care about at all.
Sentence fragments used in moderation can be useful, but when every single sentence is a fragment it drives me absolutely bugnuts. And the arrogance of the sentences implied to me that King was speaking of himself, which meant that he was speaking about himself in 3rd person, another thing which drives me bugnuts.
I didn't get the title at first, but then later remembered (after giving up on the story) that his name was King and they were trying to usurp his throne. This did not raise my opinion of the character.
Am I the only one who didn't realize that John Henry was black? It seems weird that I wouldn't know that. I guess it's because I'm mostly familiar with the story from Johnny Cash songs, which I don't think specified white or black, they just said he was poor.