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Escape Pod => Science Fiction Discussion => Topic started by: sirana on February 11, 2009, 10:43:53 AM

Title: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 11, 2009, 10:43:53 AM
So, Joss Whedons returns to television on Friday, 13th with his new series Dollhouse  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollhouse_(TV_series)).
And it's on FOX nonetheless, the Evil Empire that slew  Firefly  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_tv).
Already sparking a  "Save Dollhouse" campaign  (http://community.livejournal.com/save_dollhouse) months before the airing of the first episode, the shifting from Monday night to the "Friday Death Slot" and the reports about creative differences between Joss and the network don't paint a rosy picture of the future of the show.

What do you think? Can Joss Whedon succeed with his new series or is this going to be Firefly II? Will you watch it?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: E_Soul on February 11, 2009, 11:21:14 AM
Oh, if I were back in the States I would definitely watch.

That said, I can't hold out much hope that the show will be around for long. Fox is known for slaughtering quality shows, and I have little doubt that whatever Whedon puts out will be quality. Then again, I am a bit of a fangirl. 
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 11, 2009, 02:10:53 PM
As I noted in the Firefly thread, I'll watch it because it follows Sarah Connor.  Though I'm not sure why that's a factor, since I watch all this shit on TiVo anyway.  :-\
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: MacArthurBug on February 11, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
It will be watched- 'cause Eliza is hot, and I'm also a total Whedon fan girl. I'm willing to give just about anything he's in on a chance.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on February 11, 2009, 04:58:22 PM
I'll give it a shot. From what I hear, it's already had as twisty a beginning to production as Firefly had and I keep hearing Whedon say different stuff. I hope it lasts.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 11, 2009, 07:40:33 PM
I'll be watching, but I hope he can sell it to another network after Fox kills it.  Given the following Firefly has had and the movie sequel, maybe the others networks will be waiting for it.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 12, 2009, 08:57:54 AM
I'll be watching, but I hope he can sell it to another network after Fox kills it.  Given the following Firefly has had and the movie sequel, maybe the others networks will be waiting for it.

It seems Eliza has an exclusive contract with FOX (read it in an earlier interview about Dollhouse with Joss and Eliza that I am too lazy to search for). So I think the chances of this going to another network are slim...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 12, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
I'll be watching, but I hope he can sell it to another network after Fox kills it.  Given the following Firefly has had and the movie sequel, maybe the others networks will be waiting for it.

It seems Eliza has an exclusive contract with FOX (read it in an earlier interview about Dollhouse with Joss and Eliza that I am too lazy to search for). So I think the chances of this going to another network are slim...

Eliza had a two series development deal with Fox.  It doesn't mean she can't go anywhere else.  It means they would help her produce a series.  Once they cancel a series, the series producers, Eliza and Whedon, can walk with it.  Whedon had tried like crazy to get another network to take firefly.  I think he'll try again.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 12, 2009, 10:38:02 AM
Ah, ok. thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on February 13, 2009, 03:21:42 AM
Whedon was on Fresh Air today (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100601869).
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on February 13, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
I'll have to DVR it and see for myself, but this  (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40111) makes me a bit nervous. Mostly because I'm pretty sure that guy would take a bullet for Whedon...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 14, 2009, 09:59:41 AM
I LOVED the pilot... which means it will be cancelled before the season is over.

The  reviews  (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/02/13/dollhouse-review-roundup-and-ratings-prediction/12774) are abysmal, at least when the classical media is concerned (and while the blogs are not as negative they aren't full on positive either)

The pilot was so good I will be watching it a couple more times this week, but still I am not very hopeful. Let's wait for the ratings...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Corydon on February 14, 2009, 12:26:36 PM
I watched the first episode and wasn't encouraged.  It doesn't have the things that made Buffy worth watching: snappy dialogue, interesting characters, an interesting world, genre tweaking, insight into adolescence.  That's a lot of baggage for a new show to have to carry, but at a minimum, I'd hope that at the end of the hour, I'd want to know more about Echo and who she is.  I don't.  And I'm not especially interested in the premise of the show, or even convinced that it makes all that much sense.  (As opposed to teenagers fighting vampires.  That's, like, totally logical.  Duh.)

I'll watch another episode or two and see if it improves.  But I'm not optimistic.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 14, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I watched the first episode and wasn't encouraged.  It doesn't have the things that made Buffy worth watching: snappy dialogue, interesting characters, an interesting world, genre tweaking, insight into adolescence.  That's a lot of baggage for a new show to have to carry, but at a minimum, I'd hope that at the end of the hour, I'd want to know more about Echo and who she is.  I don't.  And I'm not especially interested in the premise of the show, or even convinced that it makes all that much sense.  (As opposed to teenagers fighting vampires.  That's, like, totally logical.  Duh.)

I'll watch another episode or two and see if it improves.  But I'm not optimistic.

the "insight into adolescence" part is obviously not applicable at all, as this is a different kind of show completely. There was a lot of humor in Buffy, too, and this is quite different on that front.

But yeah, my feelings on the pilot were mixed. I didnt love it but ill give it another shot.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Corydon on February 14, 2009, 02:04:06 PM
I watched the first episode and wasn't encouraged.  It doesn't have the things that made Buffy worth watching: snappy dialogue, interesting characters, an interesting world, genre tweaking, insight into adolescence.  That's a lot of baggage for a new show to have to carry, but at a minimum, I'd hope that at the end of the hour, I'd want to know more about Echo and who she is.  I don't.  And I'm not especially interested in the premise of the show, or even convinced that it makes all that much sense.  (As opposed to teenagers fighting vampires.  That's, like, totally logical.  Duh.)

the "insight into adolescence" part is obviously not applicable at all, as this is a different kind of show completely. There was a lot of humor in Buffy, too, and this is quite different on that front.

Well, sure.  I wouldn't expect Whedon to do the same thing again, but some sort of insight into some part of the human condition would be nice.  Still, as I said, it's not really fair to expect the show pilot to live up to the totality of another series; the early episodes of Buffy were pretty rough too.  I'll keep watching, for at least a couple of weeks, and see what happens.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 14, 2009, 05:45:17 PM
of course this being Fox the show is doomed anyhow ;)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on February 14, 2009, 07:39:37 PM
I didn't love the show immediately, but Whedon tends to get better as it goes, so I'm not really worried. Firefly was remarkable in how quickly those characters grabbed you.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 14, 2009, 10:15:29 PM
of course this being Fox the show is doomed anyhow ;)

Why bother then?  I think I'll just delete it from my TiVo, unwatched.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 14, 2009, 11:43:35 PM
Hmm, the ratings are out and they pretty much what people expected. 4.7 million viewers and a 2.0 rating share in the 14-49 demographic.
Not stellar but solid. If they can keep this kind of rating on a friday night, there might be a good chance that Dollhouse will stick around, especially with FOX knowing that they will sell a lot of dvd-sets.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on February 15, 2009, 03:33:44 AM
i just watched the pilot. it was neither encouraging or discouraging, just satisfactory.

as already said, Whedon gets better after he builds the world and reveals his character's backgrounds so it'll be three or four episodes before we get a real feeling for the show. i like it well enough to keep watching and see if a twist hooks me.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: izzardfan on February 15, 2009, 08:50:32 AM
Why bother then?  I think I'll just delete it from my TiVo, unwatched.

Based on the fact that (1) I never liked other Joss Whedon shows, and (2) the reviews are less than stellar, even from fans, I've decided to do the same.  I've got too many shows (which I enjoy) being recorded already.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on February 15, 2009, 09:21:23 AM
of course this being Fox the show is doomed anyhow ;)

Why bother then?  I think I'll just delete it from my TiVo, unwatched.

Either you're being sarcastic or misunderstanding fandom in some fundamental way (or have never seen Firefly or Doctor Horrible). Whedon fandom post-Firefly has been hope over experience for all involved.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 15, 2009, 03:39:52 PM
Why bother then?  I think I'll just delete it from my TiVo, unwatched.

Either you're being sarcastic or misunderstanding fandom in some fundamental way (or have never seen Firefly or Doctor Horrible). Whedon fandom post-Firefly has been hope over experience for all involved.

I'm being sarcastic.  I actually watched it before watching Terminator: TSCC

Interesting; shows potential.  I like it better than Firefly (as I've said before; I have no great opinion of Firefly and I've never watched Buffy or Angel.)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Planish on February 15, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
So far, so good. Okay, at least.

I suspect they wanted to get the premise established, and then we'll meet other characters, like Sierra there, near the end. Whoah ... is she, like, part alien? From Zeta Reticuli?

Then I'm hoping they get the ensemble chemistry thing going, which is what I liked about BtVS, Angel, and Firefly.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 16, 2009, 12:27:22 AM
Why bother then?  I think I'll just delete it from my TiVo, unwatched.

Based on the fact that (1) I never liked other Joss Whedon shows, and (2) the reviews are less than stellar, even from fans, I've decided to do the same.  I've got too many shows (which I enjoy) being recorded already.

You didn't like 'Firefly'?

*eyes you suspiciously and slowly backs away*
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 16, 2009, 01:04:20 AM
Based on the fact that (1) I never liked other Joss Whedon shows, and (2) the reviews are less than stellar, even from fans, I've decided to do the same.  I've got too many shows (which I enjoy) being recorded already.

You didn't like 'Firefly'?

*eyes you suspiciously and slowly backs away*

'sokay, izzardfan.  You and I can be in the "Firefly ... meh" club together.   ;D
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Bdoomed on February 16, 2009, 02:34:22 AM
can i join it and sabotage it from the inside?  ill be a "firefly... yay" club spy in the "firefly... meh" club.
saw the first ep of dollhouse and i kinda liked it!  not the greatest actors but hey whatcha gonna do :P
i was entertained.

and she is hot.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 16, 2009, 03:20:19 AM
the "Firefly ... meh" club together.   ;D

a most suspicious organization.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 16, 2009, 04:25:27 AM
can i join it and sabotage it from the inside?  ill be a "firefly... yay" club spy in the "firefly... meh" club.

No.  You're out, and we won't let you in.  :P
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Zathras on February 16, 2009, 04:53:26 AM
Anybody want to be in the BTVS (television version) and Angel... meh club?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Bdoomed on February 16, 2009, 07:14:30 AM
ill join
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: izzardfan on February 16, 2009, 07:47:19 AM
Based on the fact that (1) I never liked other Joss Whedon shows, and (2) the reviews are less than stellar, even from fans, I've decided to do the same.  I've got too many shows (which I enjoy) being recorded already.

You didn't like 'Firefly'?

*eyes you suspiciously and slowly backs away*

'sokay, izzardfan.  You and I can be in the "Firefly ... meh" club together.   ;D

Thanks, StePH, I'm in.

Anybody want to be in the BTVS (television version) and Angel... meh club?

Yep, I'll join that too.

I watched part of Serenity with hubby, who loves the movie, and couldn't get into it.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 16, 2009, 02:06:59 PM
Anybody want to be in the BTVS (television version) and Angel... meh club?

Can't.  Never watched either.  But you enjoy.  :)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Zathras on February 16, 2009, 02:49:21 PM
I watched one episode of BTVS and immediately popped in my copy of the movie.  Well, after I finished vomiting.  I have never actually watched Angel, but I have been exposed to it and other BTVS episodes.  I feel the same way about Charmed. 
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 16, 2009, 10:09:57 PM
I dont get that at all. I found the movie totally unwatchable in every way, shape and form. The TV show was hilarious,though. I simply cannot fathom prefering the movie over the tv show.. i mentally equate it to preferring getting kicked in the crotch over eating chocolate. Heh.

Maybe its just that I hate luke perry. :p
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on February 17, 2009, 12:10:39 AM
hey now, Paul Reubens' death scene (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=16438424) was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Zathras on February 17, 2009, 12:12:34 AM
I dont get that at all. I found the movie totally unwatchable in every way, shape and form. The TV show was hilarious,though. I simply cannot fathom prefering the movie over the tv show.. i mentally equate it to preferring getting kicked in the crotch over eating chocolate. Heh.

Maybe its just that I hate luke perry. :p

::whacks Talia with the chair::
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Zathras on February 17, 2009, 12:12:56 AM
"Dude, you're FLOATING!"
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Clutron on February 18, 2009, 12:06:01 AM
I'm kind of a Meh on dollhouse too...It reminded me a lot the 7th Son books, but with hotties instead of clones.  All those girls getting nepth charged...oh man.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on February 18, 2009, 01:05:52 AM
to be fair, there are guys too.

the doll that stormed the house at the end of the episode really should have been male but, hey, this is Whedon. i don't think he's able to write without putting a slight female character in combat.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on February 18, 2009, 09:33:37 AM
to be fair, there are guys too.

the doll that stormed the house at the end of the episode really should have been male but, hey, this is Whedon. i don't think he's able to write without putting a slight female character in combat.

plus she is one of the regulars, so it makes sense to introduce her on an assignement.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 19, 2009, 12:49:04 AM
I dont get that at all. I found the movie totally unwatchable in every way, shape and form. The TV show was hilarious,though. I simply cannot fathom prefering the movie over the tv show.. i mentally equate it to preferring getting kicked in the crotch over eating chocolate. Heh.

Maybe its just that I hate luke perry. :p

::whacks Talia with the chair::

You have a life-sized luke perry cardboard figure in your bedroom, don't you.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Zathras on February 19, 2009, 01:37:32 AM
Nope, Kristy Swanson and Rutger Hauer. 
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3551/3291096517_08f890d42f_o.jpg)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Planish on February 19, 2009, 02:58:25 AM
I suspect they wanted to get the premise established, and then we'll meet other characters, like Sierra there, near the end. Whoah ... is she, like, part alien? From Zeta Reticuli?
Evidently she's got a Tibetan mom, Aussie dad.
(Not that there's anything wrong with being part alien.)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on February 21, 2009, 03:03:40 AM
OK, so, I though tonight's episode was pretty rad. in deference to DVR and time zones, no spoilers, but it was  a pretty fun one. Some hokey dialogue towards the end, but I choose to forgive it. Some promising plot angles, I thought. Definitely enough to keep me interested for next week.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on February 21, 2009, 05:51:54 AM
Who wants to place money on what percentage of the Galactica cast eventually end up on Dollhouse?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on February 21, 2009, 06:22:50 AM
Who wants to place money on what percentage of the Galactica cast eventually end up on Dollhouse?
Sort of like the now-defunct Bionic Woman?

I just finished watching tonight's Sarah Connor Chronicles; Dollhouse will have to wait for tomorrow night.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on February 22, 2009, 12:30:47 AM
"hey baby, tactile proximity enhances the bonding protocol."

the day that this line works is the day i look no further.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 23, 2009, 09:52:31 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Eliza is far to skinny in this show.  Her eyes are sunken.  She really doesn't look healthy enough to handle the shooting schedule of a show like this.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Agies on February 24, 2009, 07:56:30 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 24, 2009, 10:02:41 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Agies on February 27, 2009, 06:19:26 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005)
Quote
Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 27, 2009, 09:17:20 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005)
Quote
Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.



5 different interviews will give you five different versions of that.  One thing they all have in common is, The network didn't like the original pilot and suggested, encouraged, forced a new pilot.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Agies on February 27, 2009, 09:58:41 PM
5 different interviews will give you five different versions of that.  One thing they all have in common is, The network didn't like the original pilot and suggested, encouraged, forced a new pilot.

The truth is probably, as always, somewhere inbetween. Regardless, I'm far happier with a "new" pilot rather than airing episodes out of order like Firefly.

That being said I'm somewhat supprised by some of the backlash against the show. There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us. I'm not saying that people should keep watching a "bad" show, but two episodes (or three in the case of critics) does not a series make.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on February 27, 2009, 10:08:34 PM
The thing with the network "talking to him" about the episode foreshadows trouble.  I think it shows that they really don't have any faith in the show at all.  He wants to explore the darker sides of humanity, and FOX wants an action show (according to his interview on NPR from the weekend before the premiere).
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: izzardfan on February 28, 2009, 10:48:32 AM
There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you don't watch it, how will you know if it gets better or not?   :-\
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Agies on February 28, 2009, 02:44:09 PM
There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you don't watch it, how will you know if it gets better or not?   :-\

That was part of my point  ;)

I can now see why reviewers have paned the show based on the first three episodes. The third episode was not so good, not awful, but about on par with some of those early episodes of Buffy and Angel.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: cuddlebug on March 02, 2009, 10:10:27 PM
I was so looking forward to this one and can't believe how disappointing it is. Shame on you Joss! What happened to the quirky characterisation we love so much. must be corporate meddling, if you ask me, I am not giving up on Mr Whedon yet. But I do hope it picks up (have only seen the first 3 episodes, and as other commenters mentioned we should show some patience), but if not the show is doomed. If they cancelled Pushing Daisies, which was really something special, this one, which is nothing out of the ordinary, if you ask me, doesn't stand a chance.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on March 02, 2009, 10:25:48 PM
The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005)
Quote
Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.



Thanks for pointing this out. I knew I had read it somewhere, but couldn't remember where.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on March 02, 2009, 10:53:49 PM
Might as well put this here:

Quote
Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on March 02, 2009, 11:18:21 PM
Might as well put this here:

Quote
Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on March 02, 2009, 11:19:01 PM
Might as well put this here:

Quote
Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?

What I was thinking...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on March 02, 2009, 11:39:09 PM
Might as well put this here:

Quote
Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?

What I was thinking...

I don't really keep track of these things.  I find it to be a total waste of brain capacity.  This story was linked off of the front page of IMDB today.  After you complained I went back and hit the permalink.  At the bottom of that page was a link to this:


Quote
But why did Whedon quit? He explains to The Telegraph: "I was told they were very anxious to make it. I wrote a script. I rewrote the story. And by the time I'd written the second script, they asked me...not to. They didn't tell me to leave, but they showed me the door and how pretty it was. Would I like to touch the knob and maybe make it swing? I was dealing with them through [producer] Joel Silver who couldn't tell me what they wanted or anything else. I was completely in the dark. So I didn't know what it was that I wasn't giving them. I've moved on."

Go figure. 

IMDB has him leaving in February of 2007.  Either Carter is way behind or way out in front.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on March 02, 2009, 11:48:51 PM

I don't really keep track of these things.  I find it to be a total waste of brain capacity. 

Your poor brain!  ;D
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Planish on March 05, 2009, 08:13:57 AM
Three episodes. I'm starting to lose hope for Dollhouse. It's kinda' hard to develop chemistry (a la Firefly, BTVS) when half the cast can't remember who their fellow cast members are from week to week. Maybe Echo and Sierra will start retaining some memories and become their own characters. We'll see. :-\

Not much in the way of comic relief either.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on March 05, 2009, 08:32:06 AM
Three episodes. I'm starting to lose hope for Dollhouse. It's kinda' hard to develop chemistry (a la Firefly, BTVS) when half the cast can't remember who their fellow cast members are from week to week. Maybe Echo and Sierra will start retaining some memories and become their own characters. We'll see. :-\

Not much in the way of comic relief either.

It's obvious that Echo and sierra are remembering more and that that's the point of the show.  In typical Whedon fashion he's just taking time getting there. 

I'm kind of happy there isn't too much humor in this.  I'd like it to get really dark.  The problem with BTVS and Angel was that since they always had so much humor, whenever you tried to get serious it just seemed lame.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on March 07, 2009, 07:27:10 PM
so, four episodes and the last two have been pretty bad. it isn't worth sitting through an hour of half-hearted plotting & wooden tv acting for one or two Whedonesque turns of phrase. it took Buffy well over a season to find its stride, unless the next episode of dollhouse grabs me i'll wait and check out the next season if it survives.

the last word i heard from Whedon: he was finishing all prior commitments then returning to the web after the success of Dr Horrible. i hope it's true. one of the best things he could do right now is break ground so filmakers have a financial option away from the big studios.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on March 08, 2009, 08:15:38 PM
I've actually enjoyed all the episodes so far. I thought this past one was particularly good.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on March 23, 2009, 05:50:28 PM
episodes 5 & 6 were written by (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dollhouse_episodes#Season_1_.282009.29) Buffy veterans Tim Minear & Joss Whedon and there's a noticeable change (http://www.premiumhollywood.com/2009/03/23/dollhouse-finally-flicks-the-awesome-switch/).

next week we go back to the new writers so my enthusiasm is cautious.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Planish on March 24, 2009, 11:09:13 PM
I missed ep. 5 "True Believer", but ep. 6 "Man On The Street" seems to be a turning point in the story arcs. Looks more promising now. If they stick with overly-long story arcs though, with no stand-alone MOTW episodes, then it could go the way of "ST: Enterprise". Even I gave up on that because I missed a few and totally got lost in the plot, so I stopped watching it regularly.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on March 24, 2009, 11:15:40 PM
I missed ep. 5 "True Believer", but ep. 6 "Man On The Street" seems to be a turning point in the story arcs. Looks more promising now. If they stick with overly-long story arcs though, with no stand-alone MOTW episodes, then it could go the way of "ST: Enterprise". Even I gave up on that because I missed a few and totally got lost in the plot, so I stopped watching it regularly.

Even without a DVR, there's still the option to watch online (http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=dollhouse) any that you missed, even if it's a few weeks old.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on March 24, 2009, 11:41:42 PM
In 5 and 6 I could hear more of the Whedon dialogue style.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on March 28, 2009, 06:41:24 PM
I watched part of episode 3 (Stage Fright) this afternoon because the premiere "was no longer available" on hulu (or Fox). Man, that was awful.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on March 28, 2009, 07:08:44 PM
Yeah, Stage Fright was probably the worst episode. Try episode 6 "Man on the Street". If you don't like that one, the series is probably not for you.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on March 28, 2009, 07:36:23 PM
On the other hand, you probably can skip it. With the abysmal ratings this Friday (3.9 million and a 1.3 share) I don't see how Dollhouse would not get cancelled.
And to be honest, I am not that terribly sorry about it.
There were just too few really good episodes. "Man on the Street" (Ep 6) was great, but half of the others were bad and the other half were just ok.
The writing in most episodes just wasn't up to Whedons other shows.
I had really thought that Episode 6 was the turning point where everything would get better, but this week's episode wasn't that good either.

I'll be watching till the end and the preview for next week looks really good, but as I said, I would be very surprised if Dollhouse was renewed.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Anarquistador on March 29, 2009, 01:07:17 PM
This is what happens when Joss Whedon works with Fox. You'd think he'd figured that out by now...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on March 30, 2009, 03:12:29 AM
serenity was a good show that got rolled in the crap of network tv commercialization. this time we have a few nuggets of good storytelling sinking into a crap show, rolled in the crap of tv commercialization.

fox has a bad reputation for messing up shows and they deserve it. on the other hand, most of these shows wouldn't exist if fox didn't take a chance on them. i'm all for bashing the network when they deserve it but this is an equal opportunity crapfest.

on another note, i'm at a loss to explain why the steepest drop in viewers happened after the strongest episode of the series. i sorta wanted to drop off myself since we were going to lose quality after Joss's episode but few people are geeky enough to follow the writing credits. maybe something else was on this friday? people watched the first 15min and changed the channel, maybe?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on March 30, 2009, 04:25:11 PM
fox has a bad reputation for messing up shows and they deserve it. on the other hand, most of these shows wouldn't exist if fox didn't take a chance on them. i'm all for bashing the network when they deserve it but this is an equal opportunity crapfest.

That's pretty much it for me. I think Joss Whedon's great and all, but this feels like the worst thing he's done. Honestly, the one episode I watched felt like 45 minutes of filler of a lame undercover story and >5 minutes of important stuff. And even if I am able to accept that most of the other episodes' undercover bits are better than the one I watched, I don't think it matters that much. Because with shows like Alias, Veronica Mars, or even 21 Jumpstreet, the fun is watching characters I care about in situations that effect them as characters as it is about how the characters effect the situations. But here, the characters get wiped after every situation.

Or maybe they don't.

Which is intriguing. And if that was what the show was about, I might be more interested. Unfortunately, it's only a few minutes of the episode I saw, and instead Whedon seems to be vested in the concept of Echo and Co. being tossed into any new situation every week. It can be an adventure, horror, a musical, a murder mystery, or any combination of the above.

I guess I can understand the draw of being able to choose from any of those things to create a new episode every week but with these blank-slate characters, I just really don't care. And that it's all about human trafficking -- ugh. I want to believe Whedon's trying to say something about it all, but he just hasn't earned it from me with this show, and I'll be more than content to read other people's opinions about it. There's too much other stuff I'd rather watch.

Man, between Dollhouse and Fringe this year, I'm seriously disappointed  :(

On the bright side, if this does get cancelled, maybe Dr. Horrible II will be along sooner.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on April 01, 2009, 09:13:45 PM
Spoiler (sort of) question:




Has anyone ever seen a show where they did the "everyone gets drunk from some strange outside whatever" trope well?  I don't understand why this one gets done all of the time.  It always comes out bad.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Bdoomed on April 02, 2009, 04:10:53 AM
inuyasha did that once... twas kinda funny.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on April 02, 2009, 05:04:11 AM
I think it was a regular feature of Urusei Yatsura  ;D
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on April 02, 2009, 07:11:11 AM
st:tng did it a couple times, once from effects of a collapsing star and later from an escaped holo virus (working off of a teenage memory here). like most thing in that show, it got better later. the first one wasn't great but i liked the second one, parts of it anyway. the scene that comes to mind is a moment of sexual tension between the doctor & captain.

an episode plot that plays better is everyone-gets-amnesia. Buffy's tabula rasa episode consistently gets voted as one of the most popular of the series. and since dollhouse plays with memory in every episode there would be the chance for some great meta-humour, not that i think these writers would pull it off.

but, the main thing, these episodes rely on the novelty of familiar characters acting against their nature. after six episodes i'm just not that vested in the proper-british-lady character to be amused by seeing her sprawled on the floor with snack food. this episode isn't just a tired trope, it was placed poorly is the series' timeline. doubly disappointing since Whedon is usually good at overall story arcs.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on April 02, 2009, 03:30:36 PM
an episode plot that plays better is everyone-gets-amnesia.

From the preview, this week's episode looks to be exactly the opposite ... everybody *loses* their amnesia.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on April 04, 2009, 06:34:09 PM
And a good episode. Arg.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on April 05, 2009, 03:44:56 PM
OMFG if this show's concept didn't already creep me out, the last episode certainly does.  From episode 1 we saw "Echo" being basically blackmailed into service, but now we see that "Sierra" is only there because some emotionally retarded shit-heel with too much power doesn't deal with rejection well.  I don't believe for a second that there are any real "volunteers" in the Dollhouse.  These are Very Bad People, and I'm totally rooting for Agent Helo to take them down.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: cuddlebug on April 05, 2009, 03:54:44 PM
OMFG if this show's concept didn't already creep me out, the last episode certainly does.  From episode 1 we saw "Echo" being basically blackmailed into service, but now we see that "Sierra" is only there because some emotionally retarded shit-heel with too much power doesn't deal with rejection well.  I don't believe for a second that there are any real "volunteers" in the Dollhouse.  These are Very Bad People, and I'm totally rooting for Agent Helo to take them down.

Am so with you there, Steph, just watched ep 8 and this show is creepy as hell, but hey, I keep watching it tho, so not sure what that means. and I am sure it will be exactly as you predict, Helo will burn down the house.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on April 05, 2009, 03:59:40 PM
Am so with you there, Steph, just watched ep 8 and this show is creepy as hell, but hey, I keep watching it tho, so not sure what that means.

Well, I've read a few Sheri S. Tepper's novels, and plan to read more, and some of those are at least as disturbing as anything on Dollhouse.  So not sure what that means.  ;)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on April 10, 2009, 05:07:19 PM
And because they wouldn't be Fox without doing something colossally stupid to Joss and his fanbase, yet again, I present to you the following (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/04/09/ST2009040904199.html?hpid=topnews):
Quote
Joss Whedon fans are in an uproar over news that Twentieth Century Fox TV has produced a 13th -- or 14th, depending on how you do your math -- episode of "Dollhouse" that Fox network is not going to air this season.
Eliza Dushku stars in the sci-fi series as a "doll" who lives at this high-class place run by a creepy, mercenary, fix-things-for-rich-people firm, which wipes her brain clean -- or nearly clean -- each week so she can be imprinted with a new personality and skill set to help the latest client in trouble. It's a feminist manifesto, according to ardent fans. Personally, we're not seeing it.

Anyway, the drumbeat started this week when Fox announced that it would air the season finale of "Dollhouse" at 9 p.m. on May 12. That episode is called "Omega."

Then word got out -- "somehow" -- that there exists a 13th "Dollhouse" episode, "Epitaph One," which Fox has declined to air.

Fox ordered 13 episodes of "Dollhouse" last spring from Whedon and Twentieth Century Fox TV, which, like Fox, is based at News Corp.

Fox also paid for 13 episodes.

But Fox got only 12 episodes that its execs considered good enough to air. The first episode that ran -- the one called "Ghost," on Feb. 13 -- was not the first episode shot.

The first first episode of "Dollhouse" was deemed unairable by Fox execs -- which, of course, makes us wonder why they picked up the show in the first place. But that's a story for another day.

What you need to know is that Fox paid for 13 episodes and got 12 for its money. Whedon and gang scrapped the original pilot for parts, using bits and pieces in the remaining 12 episodes of Fox's 13-episode order.

But, because Twentieth Century Fox TV made its DVD deals and international sales based on the magic "13" episodes, it had to produce another episode -- officially called the 13th episode but actually the 14th. And because times are tough for everyone, including Hollywood studios, Twentieth Century Fox would like to find a way to offset the out-of-pocket cost of producing this extra episode.

So it has suggested that the Fox network air "Epitaph One" as a "stand-alone kind of coda episode," in the words of "Dollhouse" consulting producer Tim Minear. But the network would have to pay extra to get the "extra" episode. Nobody's saying how much Twentieth Century Fox TV wants Fox network to pony up for the episode, but a drama series can cost more than $3 million an episode these days. Anyway, because "Dollhouse" hasn't exactly been a ratings barnburner for the network, odds of this happening fall between slim and none.

No one at Twentieth Century Fox TV is commenting on its campaign to persuade Fox to buy the episode. But Minear, on the Web site Whedonesque, said, "We . . . think Fox should air it because it's awesome."

ETA: Joss should really just go work for the BBC, because at least then he'd know for certain he only had 13 episodes in a series.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on April 11, 2009, 04:56:04 AM
Having watched tonight's episode, let me say that Joss is crap at one offs. Which is why most of them sucked. Give him some continuity and he'll plot the ship to the moon and back.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: slic on April 12, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
OMFG if this show's concept didn't already creep me out, the last episode certainly does.  From episode 1 we saw "Echo" being basically blackmailed into service, but now we see that "Sierra" is only there because some emotionally retarded shit-heel with too much power doesn't deal with rejection well.  I don't believe for a second that there are any real "volunteers" in the Dollhouse.  These are Very Bad People, and I'm totally rooting for Agent Helo to take them down.

Am so with you there, Steph, just watched ep 8 and this show is creepy as hell, but hey, I keep watching it tho, so not sure what that means. and I am sure it will be exactly as you predict, Helo will burn down the house.
Creepy?  Maybe a bit when the "Serious Scientist" was talking at the end, but the implications were always pretty clear.  I wouldn't be surprised that the boss lady gets a treatment. 

My wife made a really good point, assuming for a minute that the Doll House actually lets people go after 5 years (not a given), what memories/traits do they return to the Dolls?  I'm sure they did a straight recording of Caroline, but wouldn't she then know too much?


And speaking of ST:NG - this episode was in all ways like "The Naked Now" where the crew loses their inhibitions.  I write, "in all ways", because a), just as deflective said, the episode happened too soon (so Data could get work as a sexbot, what do I care, maybe that's how he paid for Academy classes) and b) the idea was ripped of a previous series, but at least the writers admitted it.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: rowshack on April 13, 2009, 09:36:08 AM
because I fell into FireFly so late i keep wanting to give it a chance but the thing with "Sierra" just left me cringing. they will let Echo go back to finish a fantasy about playing house and send her back to be basically raped. they better staighten that up real quick.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on April 13, 2009, 01:48:41 PM
because I fell into FireFly so late i keep wanting to give it a chance but the thing with "Sierra" just left me cringing. they will let Echo go back to finish a fantasy about playing house and send her back to be basically raped. they better staighten that up real quick.

I'm really not sure what you're saying here. I guess I don't "get" your complaint..
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on April 23, 2009, 12:29:48 PM
I just finished number 9.  I also watched the first three over again with my wife during our vacation. 

Since the series is likely dead, we'll never know what was in store, but I like where it's starting to go. 

Also the first few eps were better the second time through.  I caught a few extra clues.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Portrait in Flesh on April 23, 2009, 01:28:10 PM
Is the series already off the air?  I didn't notice it during last Friday's line up (then again, I was under the influence of some heavy duty OTC cold meds).
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on April 23, 2009, 02:19:56 PM
I noticed it wasnt on last Friday too, but it still has episodes scheduled ot be aired this friday and the friday after, at least, so I think its OK for now...

semi-relevant article.. http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/04/dollhouse-joss-whedon-fox-eliza-dushku.html
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on April 23, 2009, 02:39:01 PM
nah, there just was a double episode of Prison Break, because they returned.
The last 3 episodes (episode 13 will probably only be on the dvd) of this season of Dollhouse will be shown normally the next 3 Fridays.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on April 23, 2009, 03:19:56 PM
nah, there just was a double episode of Prison Break, because they returned.

I never watched Prison Bitch ... is it any good?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on May 04, 2009, 02:08:46 PM
YAY!!!  Wash was on!
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: cuddlebug on May 04, 2009, 02:18:55 PM
YAY!!!  Wash was on!

I know and he was great, so funny. perfectly cast and about time we had some more quirky Whedonesque humour in it. Loved it when he said: You know it was Earth Day last week, hilarious. in a few 100 years when people have died out Earth will have a People Day & laugh her ass off.

And hey, Dollhouse is getting better and better. Joss has definitely found his stride. The eps are throwing up really interesting questions, the whole idea of transplanting someone's mind into another body rather than manufacturing a fictional identity, hey I'll take Heidi Klum's body any day. Just gotta get her to volunteer and well, save a bit of money. *giggle*
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 04, 2009, 03:38:12 PM
YAY!!!  Wash was on!

What's a Wash?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 04, 2009, 03:42:27 PM
The eps are throwing up really interesting questions, the whole idea of transplanting someone's mind into another body rather than manufacturing a fictional identity, hey I'll take Heidi Klum's body any day. Just gotta get her to volunteer and well, save a bit of money. *giggle*

I don't think it's the actual consciousness being transferred; just a copy of the personality and memories.  Kind of like in Hutchins' 7th Son series.  If we transferred your "mind" into Heidi Klum and then killed your body, people who know you would recognize you in Klum but you would be dead.  That's how I see it anyway.  I don't believe in a spiritual "soul" but I do believe consciousness is some kind of non-transferable function of the brain.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on May 04, 2009, 05:20:33 PM
YAY!!!  Wash was on!

What's a Wash?

Here's one next to a River.


(http://canadianbrowncoats.com/myPictures/AlanSummer500.jpg)

Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 04, 2009, 06:13:48 PM
YAY!!!  Wash was on!

Hehe. I read a spoiler about this a couple months back on io9. Had been squirming with eagerness to see it play out. Was not dissapointed. :)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on May 11, 2009, 09:23:46 PM
the season's over and it got better toward the end but things don't look good (http://scifiwire.com/2009/05/dollhouse-finale-ratings.php) renewal wise.  it kinda hurts when your best chance is that your competition could be doing even worse than you are.

i like the Minear style to the two-part finale.  he has a way of introducing standard tv errors like we are expected to believe them (this guy designed the environmental systems so he can hack the security systems!) then switching it around (nah, of course he wouldn't be able to do that.  that would be silly).  i had been wondering why the dollhouse bothered to hire from outside sources when it's easier to hire some poor schlub for five years and make the employee you need.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 11, 2009, 09:41:41 PM
He once again got screwed by fox by being shunted to a Friday time slot. Next time round, maybe he could take the hint, and you know, not go with Fox, the Killer of Great TV Shows.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 11, 2009, 11:14:34 PM
... Fox, the Killer of Great TV Shows.

Such as? 

(BTW, no credit for Firefly)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 11, 2009, 11:31:32 PM
what on earth do you mean, no credit for firefly? :p

Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on May 11, 2009, 11:51:24 PM
the list (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vidlQUMjmg)* (horrible video, probably best just to listen to it)


* opinions may vary, personal classification of "Great" not guaranteed
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 12, 2009, 01:57:13 AM
the list (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vidlQUMjmg)* (horrible video, probably best just to listen to it)


* opinions may vary, personal classification of "Great" not guaranteed

I've never heard of most of those.  The Lone Gunmen was the X-Files spinoff, right?


what on earth do you mean, no credit for firefly? :p

For one thing, at risk of repeating myself, I just never found it very impressive.   
For another, I'm just sick of, and bored with, the Whedon fanbois whinging about how it got a bum deal from FOX.  :P
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on May 12, 2009, 05:02:11 AM
Dude, the Lone Gunmen. I forgot about that one. It was so good. I think Harsh Realm could've been good, too, if Fox had given it a little more time to play out (it got canceled after like 5 episodes, IIRC).


what on earth do you mean, no credit for firefly? :p

For one thing, at risk of repeating myself, I just never found it very impressive.  
For another, I'm just sick of, and bored with, the Whedon fanbois whinging about how it got a bum deal from FOX.  :P

Personally I enjoyed Firefly, but I can sympathize with your opinion on what I've seen of Dollhouse and Whedonite patience/enthusiasm. (Yes I have heard it does get much after the first five episodes or so, and then skip two or three after #6, and then watch the last couple or something). Okay, honestly, I heard one of the plot twists and I did think it was pretty cool. Not sure it warrants taking 12 hours (most of them having no direct effect on the twist), but still. Helo at least got a good deal.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on May 12, 2009, 07:08:30 AM
the tick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tick_(live_action_TV_series)) was great and wonderfalls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderfalls) was a quirky little show from the guy who did pushing daisies.  if you're missing daisies then wonderfalls might be your methadone.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 12, 2009, 01:08:38 PM
the list (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vidlQUMjmg)* (horrible video, probably best just to listen to it)


* opinions may vary, personal classification of "Great" not guaranteed

I've never heard of most of those.  The Lone Gunmen was the X-Files spinoff, right?


what on earth do you mean, no credit for firefly? :p

For one thing, at risk of repeating myself, I just never found it very impressive.   
For another, I'm just sick of, and bored with, the Whedon fanbois whinging about how it got a bum deal from FOX.  :P

Apparently we have extremely different ideas of what good TV is then. 'Firefly' to my mind is still the best show that ever aired.

To each their own. :)

As an aside, in defense of the "fanbois", when a show both captures the imagination and remains as firmly tongue in cheek as that show did, its hard not to keep being bitter about an untimely demise.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 12, 2009, 05:15:13 PM
Apparently we have extremely different ideas of what good TV is then. 'Firefly' to my mind is still the best show that ever aired.

Babylon 5 holds that title in my personal opinion, if you want a baseline to work from.  :)

I just didn't like any of the characters in Firefly; I couldn't find any of them sympathetic, and particularly disliked Baldwin's character.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 12, 2009, 06:07:40 PM
what?? Jayne was the BEST THING about the show! He got all the best lines. :)

I liked Babylon 5 pretty well though I never watched it regularly. Its a pity the cast members keep dying off young (at least two of them, anyway).
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on May 13, 2009, 11:55:01 AM
Jayne is an acquired taste.  The first time through I only sort of liked him.  Second time through he really started to grow on me.  Third time through I almost cheered after each line.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on May 13, 2009, 03:56:49 PM
He definitely grew on me during the series and movie. Initially, I wanted him to get shoved out the hatch by Mal while they were between planets. By the movie, I absolutely loved him.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 15, 2009, 08:42:28 PM
So it looks like Dollhouse is going to make it:

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/15/fox-preps-dollhouse-for-fall-relaunch/

Hope so, it definitely grew on me.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on May 15, 2009, 09:22:44 PM
something about my mentality wont let me be happy about this, just bitter that dollhouse gets a second season and firefly didn't.

i also sometimes admonish flowers for being too colourful.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on May 16, 2009, 01:06:56 AM
Happy Dance

Though a part of me also agrees with one of the posters on the End of Show Blog.
Quote
FlickPodcast says:
May 15, 2009 at 10:48 pm

This is an extraordinarily lucky break for the Dollhouse gang. In my opinion, renewal of this show keeps Whedon from working on something that is much more solid and viewable.


Part of me hoped for cancellation, with the anticipation of something stronger from Joss, but now it looks like we’re stuck.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 16, 2009, 03:34:27 AM
Dollhouse is awesome. I feel bad for those who don't like it, poor souls. I dig it and can't wait for more :p
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on May 16, 2009, 08:12:36 AM
Dollhouse is awesome. I feel bad for those who don't like it, poor souls. I dig it and can't wait for more :p

Never said I didn't like it, it's just not a buffy/angel or Firefly.  The acting and story just isn't as good.  probably in part because it's harder to identify with the Characters when the Characters' character keeps changing each week. 
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: sirana on May 16, 2009, 08:58:01 AM
And it's (more or less)  official (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/05/a-good-day-for-dolls-and-docs-dollhouse-scrubs-renewed.html).
I really didn't think this would happen.
Yay FOX!?!? It really feels weird yelling that...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on May 18, 2009, 03:42:44 PM
On This American Life (http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=379) (a few weeks ago, although I just heard it today), Joss Whedon was the musical guest, singing a song from the commentary of the Dr. Horrible DVD (I think).
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on May 18, 2009, 04:06:35 PM
aye, the live show.  singing your voice-over commentary for a musical, nice. =)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 19, 2009, 09:56:32 PM
And it's (more or less)  official (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/05/a-good-day-for-dolls-and-docs-dollhouse-scrubs-renewed.html).
I really didn't think this would happen.
Yay FOX!?!? It really feels weird yelling that...

But The Sarah Connor Chronicles gets the axe.  >:(

I liked Dollhouse, but I'd rather it were the other way around.  I really want to see where the third season would have gone after that finale.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 19, 2009, 10:08:04 PM
I liked Dollhouse better, personally, but I will miss Sarah Connor Chronicles. Although I stopped watching it after fox stupidly moved it from Mon. to Fri.

Fox sucks.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 19, 2009, 10:41:11 PM
I liked Dollhouse better, personally, but I will miss Sarah Connor Chronicles. Although I stopped watching it after fox stupidly moved it from Mon. to Fri.

TiVo is my friend.  I don't have to care about what night a show airs, or what time of day or night. 
Apparently the networks (not just FOX) are stuck in a paleolithic mindset that considers people who don't watch a show live as it airs, to be irrelevant.  I mean, even VCRs have been around for decades.

Fox sucks.

"Dat entirely too correct!"

(http://www.popeye-x.com/images/THING-FISH_CD_cover01.jpg)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 20, 2009, 02:18:04 AM
The stupid VCR in my TV broke a while ago, and no TIVO.

*sad face*

oh well, I get by. :)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 20, 2009, 03:23:44 AM
Why even bother with Dollhouse any more?  No guarantees that FUX won't cancel it at the end of next season.  I'm tempted to just give up on FUX and be done with them ... I suppose they'll be cancelling House next (which I think is the only other show on that network that I watch)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 20, 2009, 04:07:40 AM
Why even bother with Dollhouse any more?  No guarantees that FUX won't cancel it at the end of next season.  I'm tempted to just give up on FUX and be done with them ... I suppose they'll be cancelling House next (which I think is the only other show on that network that I watch)

Well, to each their own, but I enjoyed each episode up to and including the season finale. Looking forward to what next season may bring, regardless of Fox's manipulation.

I absolutely love House too. I suspect its on somewhat safer ground, as it seems to have gained mainstream appeal.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on May 20, 2009, 05:17:55 PM
Oh and as an aside...

why we should not boycott fox, from the guy behind Sarah Conner Chronicles

http://io9.com/5260239/sarah-connors-boss-says-goodbye
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on May 21, 2009, 05:06:37 PM
I think watching Dollhouse from here on out, each episode is going to make me die a little more inside.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on June 03, 2009, 12:47:33 PM
I mentioned way back in the beginning of this thread that Eliza is just too thin right now.  I think it's really unhealthy, but more importantly, it makes her character unbelievable.  When she's in "secret agent mode" she fights and kicks the butts of guys who are seventy pounds of pure muscle heavier than her.  She's so thin even with super skills she wouldn't be able to take one of these guys.

This picture was posted in our Picture Association (http://forum.escapeartists.net/index.php?topic=2579.msg46037#msg46037) thread.  I think she is a far better example of what Echo should look like.  She's drop dead gorgeous and she's strong.

(http://the50hottestwomenofsports.wondersguide.net/the50hottestwomen/allisonstokke.jpg)

It would be a lot easier to give Eliza that body than to teach Allison Stokke (The lady in the pic) how to act.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Loz on June 07, 2009, 01:56:12 PM
I don't mind either way, it started poorly, got good in the middle and then plummeted back into the bad place quite hard for it's last episode, I'm trying to tell myself that the first series of Buffy wasn't that good either...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on June 07, 2009, 02:46:35 PM
I thought the last episode was pretty good myself.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: CGFxColONeill on June 07, 2009, 10:22:44 PM
I still like the second episode the best this season... I was shocked when I found out they had renewed it though as I was pretty sure it was dead when they started it out on friday nights ( fox's attempt to kill another of Joss's shows?) that said I am really happy that they did though
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on June 08, 2009, 12:56:53 PM
It seems that the Friday night placement wasn't the dumbest of ideas.  The fans of the show seem to come from the most technically proficient viewers.  So they took a night where very few people watch TV, and put on a show where most of the viewers use Tivo.  The Neilson ratings were consistently crap for this show, but the Tivo ratings were always rather high.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on June 08, 2009, 02:55:25 PM
I'd still rather have Terminator renewed.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Praxis on June 28, 2009, 05:25:35 PM
(I'm assuming that this thread doesn't need spoiler warnings, given the topic.)

A thought:
 by the end of the last episode/series agent Ballard is going to be part of the Dollhouse.  We see him apparently just about to start in his new job, once he sees that his ex-neighbour is being released. All is well......

But we don't see him going from
'hey, I've finally broken in to this godawful place and am going to shut it down' to
'Hey, this Dollhouse is fine to work in, and I have no problems with being part of what goes on here (letting someone's ex sell them into this place and routinely hire them back for rape-visits,for example) at all. Tra-la-la'

Does anyone *really* buy that he agreed to this?
Personally I'm waiting for the reveal that they strapped him down and re-wired his brain so that he thought he wanted to work there, etc.

But maybe I just don't want to believe that Helo I mean Ballard would sell-out.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on June 28, 2009, 10:25:08 PM
he may be working it from the inside.  he just found out that dollhouse is a massive international operation, he needs to collect information before he has any real chance of revealing them.
Title: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: genroxbro on July 28, 2009, 11:52:51 PM
Hi. Does anyone know where I can view previous episodes of dollhouse. Ive just seen the adverts and want to watch it but realise that Ive missed 3 episodes.

I would appreciate any help ?

Regards
Trev

Mod: This user has been banned because of spamming.  I'm leaving this post, since it got some interesting responses.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on July 29, 2009, 05:17:54 AM
bittorrent.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on July 29, 2009, 07:30:19 AM
or..

http://www.surfthechannel.com/show/73235.html

That list's a little sketchy, nto sure how many of those will work, but no download.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Russell Nash on July 29, 2009, 08:14:51 AM
The DVDs are already out (http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0024FAR66/escapepod-20), so you should just be able to rent it.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on September 21, 2009, 06:44:24 PM
Okay, Dollhouse fans, if I was going to give a show another chance, what episodes from season 1 are worth watching? I mean, completely worth watching. I know the last episode or two were supposed to be really good, and the 13th episode on DVD only. So that's three. Were there any others?

I don't want to waste an hour of my time for 20 seconds of mythology - that was part of what turned me off when I watched back-up dancer ep. But if there's other episodes worthwhile, I'd be curious...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Praxis on September 22, 2009, 09:35:26 PM
I think it's hard to say which episodes in series 1 are (the only) ones worth watching.  Partly because there are various "reveals" thoughout the series but also because in most episodes we are shown a different aspect of the Dollhouse process or ethos and/or of the possible uses of the imprinting technology and how it can go so very very wrong.

I'd say watch them all, if only so that by the end (and in readiness for season 2) you have all the nuances you should have to get what is going on.

Or, if you have to have a smaller list,
definitely avoid episodes 2 and 3, and probably also 5
definitely definitely see episodes 6 7 8 and the the finale

...but then episode 10 has some light to shed on the whole story, episode 11 was a bit slow but explains what is happening in the finale...... Generally, I don't know how interesting some of the twists would be if you've not seen the earlier context, you may have to just bite the bullet and watch them all, there's not that many.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on October 06, 2009, 03:38:23 AM
Just got done watching last Friday's episode.  I'm trying to enjoy the show, but it's kind of hard when I wish I were watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles instead. :(
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on October 06, 2009, 03:42:03 AM
I rather like Dollhouse more than the Chronicles myself - but I do miss summer Glau's character.

that was a good show. They do always cancel the good stuff, those f*ckers.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on October 06, 2009, 04:29:04 AM
I rather like Dollhouse more than the Chronicles myself - but I do miss summer Glau's character.

that was a good show. They do always cancel the good stuff, those f*ckers.

Well she is joining the cast of Dollhouse so win some lose some...
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on October 06, 2009, 05:24:16 AM
That's what I'd _heard_ though I'd also heard of STC's potential resurrection.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on October 28, 2009, 02:57:18 AM
YAY!

I've been wanting to see Sierra kill that raping fucknut ever since we first met him in the "everybody wakes up" episode.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.  Too bad she's still stuck being an indentured servant for the forseeable future.

[edit]
I told y'all that she was no volunteer!  But did anybody listen?  The only thing I was wrong about, was thinking that the Dollhouse was knowingly complicit in pressing her into service.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on October 28, 2009, 02:57:56 AM
That's what I'd _heard_ though I'd also heard of STC's potential resurrection.
Where have you heard that?  Don't play with my feelings, it's not nice.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on November 11, 2009, 09:08:40 PM
Fox, I hate your guts so much.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ibd4c93af8a3194fa8f32bc3b11c6126a
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on November 11, 2009, 09:12:47 PM
Sigh. Inevitable sigh, but sigh.

Hopefully this means more Doctor Horrible though. And he moves to SyFy, where-they-would-not-cancel-the-show-because-they-do-not-get-high-ratings-normally-and-gave-SG:1-like-thirty-seasons.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on November 11, 2009, 09:15:15 PM
Well there's definitely a Dr. Horrible sequel in the works, read an interview with Nathan Fillion.

But still. So dissapointing.

*kicks fox in the knee*
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: DKT on November 11, 2009, 09:23:50 PM
Bring on Dr. Horrible 2, I say!
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on November 11, 2009, 09:27:20 PM
Well there's definitely a Dr. Horrible sequel in the works, read an interview with Nathan Fillion.
[...]
Any of them or all of them?

(ok, ok, I saw that interview too)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 11, 2009, 10:02:26 PM
Fox, I hate your guts so much.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ibd4c93af8a3194fa8f32bc3b11c6126a

Oh,well ... can't really say I'll miss it though.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Alasdair5000 on November 11, 2009, 10:16:56 PM
Fox, I hate your guts so much.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ibd4c93af8a3194fa8f32bc3b11c6126a

If it's any consolation, there's a reasonable chance the comic'll get picked up.  Dark Horse and IDW have done incredibly well with the Buffy, Angel and Firefly series and Whedon said a few weeks ago that he'd figured out ho to do Dollhouse the same way.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on November 12, 2009, 02:26:24 AM
Look at it this way, it gives Whedon time to write something a little bit better than dollhouse.  I will miss the show, but if he's not working on Dollhouse, he can give us something better.  If Buffy/Angel hadn't ended their run, we would never have gotten firefly/serenity, so....  His stories seem to be becoming a little more niche oriented, but over all I like the story ideas better.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on November 12, 2009, 06:01:30 AM
Oh,well ... can't really say I'll miss it though.

I will. :/ I love that show. it was on at a slightly inconvenient time, though. (thanks, Fox, you farkwads).

If it's any consolation, there's a reasonable chance the comic'll get picked up.  Dark Horse and IDW have done incredibly well with the Buffy, Angel and Firefly series and Whedon said a few weeks ago that he'd figured out ho to do Dollhouse the same way.

I'm not sure if its a consolation. I'm certainly not averse to comics, but I've never understood how to "get into" them aside from picking up graphic novels when they're released (and I do rabidly adore, for example, sandman). Its a bit mystifying.

Look at it this way, it gives Whedon time to write something a little bit better than dollhouse.  I will miss the show, but if he's not working on Dollhouse, he can give us something better.  If Buffy/Angel hadn't ended their run, we would never have gotten firefly/serenity, so....  His stories seem to be becoming a little more niche oriented, but over all I like the story ideas better.


...

exceedingly interesting point. I will happily continue to follow whatever he does. Man's got talent.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: eytanz on November 12, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
Fox, I hate your guts so much.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ibd4c93af8a3194fa8f32bc3b11c6126a

If it's any consolation, there's a reasonable chance the comic'll get picked up.  Dark Horse and IDW have done incredibly well with the Buffy, Angel and Firefly series and Whedon said a few weeks ago that he'd figured out ho to do Dollhouse the same way.

I have to say, while I love whedon on television/internet shows/the big screen, I have a real hard time enjoying his comics. Part of what makes whedon great is his ability to choose actors that can play his characters as three dimensional, but he doesn't seem to have the knack of writing comics in a way that makes character depth seem genuine. The characters end up feeling like caricatures of themselves.

Also, I tend to like the beginnings of whedon's worlds more than the later stages - his characters, esp. in the long running series, tend to start out simple and gain additional layers. In the beginning this is great but he doesn't really know when to stop, so by the end things tend to be really overwraught and everything seems to be reduced into an angsy mess. The comics, at least for buffy and angel, pick up at that point and just make it even worse.

Maybe dollhouse (which I've never seen) ended early enough that this isn't a problem
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 12, 2009, 02:53:25 PM
Oh,well ... can't really say I'll miss it though.

I will. :/ I love that show. it was on at a slightly inconvenient time, though. (thanks, Fox, you farkwads).

Get a DVR already!  It's 2009; the future is now!
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on November 12, 2009, 04:06:12 PM
Oh,well ... can't really say I'll miss it though.

I will. :/ I love that show. it was on at a slightly inconvenient time, though. (thanks, Fox, you farkwads).

Get a DVR already!  It's 2009; the future is now!

I will as soon as I win the lottery. :p
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: MacArthurBug on November 12, 2009, 04:06:55 PM
I will happily continue to follow whatever he does. Man's got talent.


seconding this :)
and seriously I flipped Fox the middle finger from the beginning, but was willing to give Dollhouse a go from the getgo- after all E.D. in next to nothing on a regular basis? Yee! A nother Show by Whedon? Yee! Knowing it'll end suddenly? not so yee, but meh still worth the trouble.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Bdoomed on November 12, 2009, 05:35:48 PM
they had to make way for Glen Beck's new sitcom, The Goddamn Socialist Nazis.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on November 12, 2009, 05:51:49 PM
I will happily continue to follow whatever he does. Man's got talent.


seconding this :)
and seriously I flipped Fox the middle finger from the beginning, but was willing to give Dollhouse a go from the getgo- after all E.D. in next to nothing on a regular basis? Yee! A nother Show by Whedon? Yee! Knowing it'll end suddenly? not so yee, but meh still worth the trouble.

To be fair, at least they didn't cancel it after the first season. The numbers were bad back then, and it's somewhat out of character for them to be lenient.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: MacArthurBug on November 12, 2009, 06:38:51 PM
To be fair, at least they didn't cancel it after the first season. The numbers were bad back then, and it's somewhat out of character for them to be lenient.

I'm happy they didn't cut it right away- still sux that they did at all.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 12, 2009, 09:27:51 PM
I'd still rather they dumped Dollhouse last season and kept Terminator.  But it's not a perfect world.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on November 13, 2009, 04:12:05 AM

If it's any consolation, there's a reasonable chance the comic'll get picked up.  Dark Horse and IDW have done incredibly well with the Buffy, Angel and Firefly series and Whedon said a few weeks ago that he'd figured out ho to do Dollhouse the same way.

I'm not sure if its a consolation. I'm certainly not averse to comics, but I've never understood how to "get into" them aside from picking up graphic novels when they're released (and I do rabidly adore, for example, sandman). Its a bit mystifying.


Easiest way to get into comics as you said is buy the graphic novels, second easiest is to find a good comic book shop that will order/pull comics for you.  God I miss my university comic shop, He would give us copies of the order books, and we could mark what we were interested in, so even if he didn't carry it, he would order it for us, because he usually ordered enough other books from each publisher, he could get away with single book orders.  He would pull the books for us when they came in so they never even saw the store shelf.  Had another one that would pull books but not order them, and then suddenly they closed one day.  No warning.  Rumor was he was going to open an internet based shop, but it never saw the light of day. All the good comic shops are vanishing.  Probably because people order the graphic novel from Amazon.  Don't get me wrong, I love the convenience of Amazon, but the small local stores, that would recommend things to you based on your purchases, and had a real love for it beats a cold bunch of pixels.  Be it for books, music, or comics.

Look at it this way, it gives Whedon time to write something a little bit better than dollhouse.  I will miss the show, but if he's not working on Dollhouse, he can give us something better.  If Buffy/Angel hadn't ended their run, we would never have gotten firefly/serenity, so....  His stories seem to be becoming a little more niche oriented, but over all I like the story ideas better.


...

exceedingly interesting point. I will happily continue to follow whatever he does. Man's got talent.

[/quote]
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Loz on November 15, 2009, 07:39:53 PM
The inherent stupidities of plot in order to make this work, combined with the fact that even when not blank Dushku is never that interesting an actor means I'm not going to miss this like I thought I would do before the show started.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on November 16, 2009, 07:11:33 AM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353)  (http://twapperkeeper.com/heiti/)  *warning second link goes to a twapper keeper to follow some of the twitter posts re: the ARG
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 16, 2009, 02:52:01 PM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353) 

WTFingF is that?  ???
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Alasdair5000 on November 16, 2009, 03:19:16 PM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353)  (http://twapperkeeper.com/heiti/)  *warning second link goes to a twapper keeper to follow some of the twitter posts re: the ARG


There's some speculation that the Dollhouse ARG may, quietly, be being used to set up Whedon's next project.  Possibly huge spoilers here:

http://io9.com/5404760/is-joss-whedons-post+dollhouse-plan-already-underway

Whilst I don't think I believe it, I'd really like to:)

Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: MacArthurBug on November 16, 2009, 06:30:15 PM
It's sorta sad that I'm such an uberfan that really this man can do anything and I'd give it a try
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on November 16, 2009, 07:28:30 PM
Well, he's got a proven history of putting out good shows. It would be sad if he did something bad and you couldn't admit it was bad, but thus far nothing he's done has really sucked.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on November 17, 2009, 12:25:14 AM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353) 

WTFingF is that?  ???

I don't know if it was done to generate interest in the show to save it or what, but that link to whedonesque tends to cover much of what has been found.  Rossum has a web page and phone number, my understanding is if called you will get text messages and call backs, including the remote wiping tone (being in China without the ability to call overseas from my mobile I can't confirm), there are websites like ditchthetech.com and wipethefuture.com that are all part of an ARG.  it seems quite interesting, I wish I was able to be a bit more immersed in it. 
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 17, 2009, 04:06:44 AM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353) 

WTFingF is that?  ???

I don't know if it was done to generate interest in the show to save it or what, but that link to whedonesque tends to cover much of what has been found.  Rossum has a web page and phone number, my understanding is if called you will get text messages and call backs, including the remote wiping tone (being in China without the ability to call overseas from my mobile I can't confirm), there are websites like ditchthetech.com and wipethefuture.com that are all part of an ARG.  it seems quite interesting, I wish I was able to be a bit more immersed in it. 

I mean, I followed the link and I can't make a damn bit of sense out of what it links to.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on November 17, 2009, 04:16:35 AM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353) 

WTFingF is that?  ???

I don't know if it was done to generate interest in the show to save it or what, but that link to whedonesque tends to cover much of what has been found.  Rossum has a web page and phone number, my understanding is if called you will get text messages and call backs, including the remote wiping tone (being in China without the ability to call overseas from my mobile I can't confirm), there are websites like ditchthetech.com and wipethefuture.com that are all part of an ARG.  it seems quite interesting, I wish I was able to be a bit more immersed in it. 

I mean, I followed the link and I can't make a damn bit of sense out of what it links to.

View page source, continue onto twitter.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: lowky on November 17, 2009, 04:22:31 AM
anyone following the dollhouse arg?

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353 (http://whedonesque.com/comments/22353) 

WTFingF is that?  ???

 
I don't know if it was done to generate interest in the show to save it or what, but that link to whedonesque tends to cover much of what has been found.  Rossum has a web page and phone number, my understanding is if called you will get text messages and call backs, including the remote wiping tone (being in China without the ability to call overseas from my mobile I can't confirm), there are websites like ditchthetech.com and wipethefuture.com that are all part of an ARG.  it seems quite interesting, I wish I was able to be a bit more immersed in it. 

I mean, I followed the link and I can't make a damn bit of sense out of what it links to.

View page source, continue onto twitter.

some of the original sites have already updated to new content that won't link you to the further content in the ARG which is why i linked to what had been found rather than the original pages.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: deflective on November 17, 2009, 04:24:16 AM
arg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game)
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on November 17, 2009, 02:56:16 PM
Ah.  Screw it.  I don't care enough about Dollhouse or Whedon to dig deeper.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on December 07, 2009, 03:35:30 PM
OMFG that last episode with Topher imprinted into "Victor" was every kind of awesome!  The actor playing Victor nailed the part. ;D 

I'm finally starting to really like this show, just when it's about to be over.  :(
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on December 20, 2009, 05:52:12 AM
Okay, seriously, wotthehell?  ???

Past three weeks, FUX ran two episodes of Dollhouse back-to-back on its scheduled night.  And now, they're taking three weeks off.

Why teh FUCK wouldn't they just run single episodes for six weeks instead?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on December 20, 2009, 06:46:59 AM
Okay, seriously, wotthehell?  ???

Past three weeks, FUX ran two episodes of Dollhouse back-to-back on its scheduled night.  And now, they're taking three weeks off.

Why teh FUCK wouldn't they just run single episodes for six weeks instead?

Er, consult a calendar. Should have some text on the next two Fridays.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on December 27, 2009, 05:18:54 PM
Okay, seriously, wotthehell?  ???

Past three weeks, FUX ran two episodes of Dollhouse back-to-back on its scheduled night.  And now, they're taking three weeks off.

Why teh FUCK wouldn't they just run single episodes for six weeks instead?

Er, consult a calendar. Should have some text on the next two Fridays.

Yeah, Christmas and New Year's day.  SFW?
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on December 28, 2009, 01:41:48 AM
Okay, seriously, wotthehell?  ???

Past three weeks, FUX ran two episodes of Dollhouse back-to-back on its scheduled night.  And now, they're taking three weeks off.

Why teh FUCK wouldn't they just run single episodes for six weeks instead?

Er, consult a calendar. Should have some text on the next two Fridays.

Yeah, Christmas and New Year's day.  SFW?

So those days, being holidays, are regularly programmed differently than a usual day of the week. It would, in fact, be surprising if they weren't. New Year's day a bit less so than Christmas, but still, usually programmed differently. I understand being annoyed at a gap between episodes, but the apparent anger seems odd, as it's not exactly random. Ignoring Christmas in the programming schedule of a major network would be like a rocket scientist ignoring gravity when devising orbitals.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: stePH on December 28, 2009, 03:18:14 AM
I understand being annoyed at a gap between episodes, but the apparent anger seems odd, as it's not exactly random.

Not anger as such, just a bit of a boggle.  Besides, that's only two weeks of holidays, and they ran three weeks of double episodes and are following it with three weeks off.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Talia on December 28, 2009, 12:17:42 PM
I understand being annoyed at a gap between episodes, but the apparent anger seems odd, as it's not exactly random.

Not anger as such, just a bit of a boggle.  Besides, that's only two weeks of holidays, and they ran three weeks of double episodes and are following it with three weeks off.

The timing really isn't unusual, this is commonplace practice for TV shows. The only odd thing is the double episodes, and that's because the show was cancelled midway through the series, because Fox sucks.

I hate you, Fox.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Loz on December 30, 2009, 09:34:21 PM
I'm a bit behind so the latest episode I've seen is the one where Echo helps the Mexican woman to escape from prison and frankly, where Echo is now with the various different personalities coming to the fore as needed, this is where the program needed to be in the middle of the first season, not now when it's too late.

I also didn't recognise Summer Glau initially because I'm not used to her having that much dialogue.

But there is some elements of characters being reduced to vessels to move plot around, probably due to imminent cancellation, such as Topher and Adelle's wildly inconsistent levels of care for the dolls they send out to whore in the world for them, Topher helpfully making plans for a machine that will allow anyone to imprint into anyone else at any time and then Adelle backstabbing him by passing the plans to the people who have just demoted and demeaned her.
Title: Re: dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE
Post by: Heradel on January 30, 2010, 09:03:39 AM
Under the circumstances, it ended well — and Whedonesque.