Escape Artists
The Lounge at the End of the Universe => Gallimaufry => Topic started by: Gamercow on January 21, 2011, 07:13:33 PM
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I have a compulsion to finish any book I start, just to make sure that I don't miss a surprise upturn in quality, or a twist that suddenly redeems the book in my eyes. I don't have this same compulsion with movies, tv shows, or video games. This is odd, because with the exception of video games, all of those media require more of a time investment.
Currently, I'm reading "Orcs", which, like many fantasy books, is long, at 800+ pages. I'm about half way in, and finding it difficult to continue. I've got 3 other books immediately behind it in the queue that I would much rather read, but I need to finish Orcs first.
Does anyone else suffer from this compulsion or have any good stories about it?
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As I get older, I have less patience for books I dislike. I try to finish everything I read, but if it's really boring or truly awful, I'll read something else. As it is, there are too many books and too little time. I don't give up on too many books though. I quit Quicksilver and Anathem each about 120-150 pages from the end. They weren't bad, just too long. I lost interest. I gave up on The da Vinci Code in less than a chapter because I just couldn't handle the writing. I couldn't get through the first part of the audio download of Best Served Cold, but I'm going to give it a shot in print because the problem was the narration, not the story. Usually though, I slog through and finish. I always try to have an optimistic attitude and keep hoping a bad book will get better. It usually doesn't work out though.
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I do like to finish books that I starts, but I've tried to read the first book in the Narnia series several times and haven't been able to get through it. It's a shame because, as a fan of fantasy, I feel like i should read the series, and might try again sometime. This is the only case in which I've found myself unable to continue with a book, although I've come pretty close on a couple of occasions, the most recent being The Girl Who Played with Fire, which only just held my interest.
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Oh, I totally feel your pain. I don't have a lot of time to read (who does?) and when I get hung up its almost impossible for me to give up on the book just because I know the guilt will eat me alive. Lots of times I put it down and then pick it months later when things in my life have settled down or the sun is shining or who knows but THEN I'll finish it. Mostly. I can count on one hand the number I haven't finished. Same goes with movies.
But, you can count me in your weird compulsion club. I'm always sure redemption is just around the bend.....
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I do like to finish books that I starts, but I've tried to read the first book in the Narnia series several times and haven't been able to get through it. It's a shame because, as a fan of fantasy, I feel like i should read the series, and might try again sometime.
I re-read most of them some years back when The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe was in theaters. The thing that I disliked most was that they are written for a very low reading level.
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I got over the must-finish-it compulsion when I was in high school. I'd already slogged through several books that weren't any good, usually by classic SF author's who's work I'd previously enjoyed. But as much as I love authors like Heinlein and Niven, their later works aren't up to their previous standards. Finally I decided that my time was better spent other places than novels I wasn't enjoying.
Sometimes I'll read something to the end anyway - like if it's a classic that's just not to my taste, but I feel I "should have read".
Interestingly, in my capacity as a slush pile reader, I'm pretty stubborn about reading the story to the end. But in that case, my enjoyment isn't the only reason I'm reading it. But the really horrid writing still gets just... skimmed for content.
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Only novel I ever gave up on was Rushdie's The Satanic Verses, and I felt pretty bad about it afterwards, like I'd shown myself to be some sort of anti-intellectual dunce. In retrospect, though, I totally blame Rushdie for not grabbing my attention sufficiently.
Sometimes I'll set a book aside if I decide it's not really what I want to read right now. I started Philip K. Dick's Valis, thinking it would read like an SF novel, rather than the philosophical treatise that it turned out to be. My attention petered out after about fifty pages, but now that I know what to expect from it I'll pick it up again someday when I'm in the right mood.
The worst novel I ever read in my adult life was Caleb Carr's Killing Time. But I never really thought about giving up on it -- it's relatively short, the action moves quickly, and I read the whole thing within two days. It almost would have been more of a bother not to finish.
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Never really had that feeling. I do, however, finish 99% of novels I start. Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there. There are a few books that I've started but haven't had the time to really get into, nevermind finish, but I'll get to them eventually.
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In a word, no. If a book is really bugging me I give it away. There's really, really no point in continuing with something you're not enjoying (bookwise, anyway).
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Never really had that feeling. I do, however, finish 99% of novels I start. Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there.
Does that even count as a novel? I thought it was more like a collection of JRRT's backstory notes.
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Never really had that feeling. I do, however, finish 99% of novels I start. Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there.
Does that even count as a novel? I thought it was more like a collection of JRRT's backstory notes.
I'd say it's a novel. It's written somewhat like the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring, where it details the hobbits, just more-so like a history text. And confusing and boring as watching paint dry on growing grass.
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Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there.
I read all of that and took in none of it. Biggest waste of my 12 year old self's life.
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If I start it, I *must* finish it. Always been that way. Can't kick the compulsion no matter what. The only thing age and experience have done, in this regard, is make me much more picky about what I start. ;D
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I used to compulsively finish everything I've started.
Then I went to grad school, and stopped starting things, because I never had time to finish the previous book I've read. And after a while, something changed. I don't think I actually made a concious decision, but I started reading again, and when I got too busy and end up not reading for several weeks, I would start something new when I had the time again.
My problem is partially that I do a lot of (non-fiction) reading for work, and I often don't have the energy to read when I get home. I get home, cook dinner, spend time with my fiancee, maybe watch some television, and go to bed. I mostly read on weekends and holidays, and it's hard for me to get a continuous experience. If I have time and energy to read during the week, I often hit the Escape Pod slush pile as that way I can get something done + those stories are short.
These days I think I only finish maybe a third of the books I start. I'm not happy about it, but I find myself attracted to a lot of books and I start them and then I don't ever pick them up again. I don't exactly give up on them, it's more that I have a whole shelf of books I plan to return to "one day", and realistically I know I won't.
Geesh, I kind of depressed myself a bit here...
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I don't "HAVE" to finish them but I usually do. In fact, I think I've only dropped two novels half way in my entire life, "Better than Life" by Grant Naylor, and "Harry Potter and Prisoner of Azkawhatever" by J.K. Rowling. I dropped the whole Potter series right there too, 100 pages in. I deep sixed a couple of short story collection before the end too, but I don't know if that's really the same thing at ditching a novel as you never get "closure" ditching a novel.
I don't typically read novel-length fiction when I am writing fiction and for the last 10 years or so all I've done is write fiction. When I take a break from writing for a few weeks every year or so I usually spend it with classics. I read a whole lot of non-fiction year round.
As for non-fiction, I'd ditched a couple of titles before the end, but these were usually episodic narrative nonfiction war correspondence type books where the style of writing became so oppressive and florid that I couldn't keep from rolling my eyes even though I was interested in the POV and subject matter.
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If I start it, I *must* finish it. Always been that way. Can't kick the compulsion no matter what. The only thing age and experience have done, in this regard, is make me much more picky about what I start. ;D
This is exactly how I feel, and couldn't have expressed it better. Hope you don't mind the quote! :)
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I used to finish what I started. Then I was finished with that, and stopped :P.
Honestly, what changed is that I found a career (instead of a job) and got really busy. Suddenly, slogging through a book I wasn't enjoying and saw no chance that I would start enjoying became a bigger waste of time than I was willing to deal with. It still takes a lot before I'll give up on a book, mind you, but if I'm really not enjoying myself I'll do it.
Of course, the list of books I've actually given up on so far consists of... The Wayfarer Redemption, by Sarah Douglass. So I'm clearly not so great at this yet!
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Heh. I'm also with CryptoMe, it appears :)
I do find it very hard to stop reading something, even if I really dislike whatever it is I'm reading. I want to believe it gets better...or maybe I'm just masochistic. Either way, I can count on my fingers the number of books I've stopped reading. These days, I try to be wiser about the books I start reading.
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No matter how bad a book is, I'll finish it if I start it unless it's a physical chore to read. I tried to read "Anthem" (Ayn Rand) and got three chapters in, and it was just didacticness and not an actual story. And I tried reading the translation of "The Stone And The Flute", but it wasn't interesting enough for me to fight my way through the translated text.
I hate thinking I missed something.
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Never really had that feeling. I do, however, finish 99% of novels I start. Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there.
Does that even count as a novel? I thought it was more like a collection of JRRT's backstory notes.
I'd say it's a novel. It's written somewhat like the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring, where it details the hobbits, just more-so like a history text. And confusing and boring as watching paint dry on growing grass.
I once heard someone say "If JRRT had had access to the Internet, the Simarillion would all be in the Tolkein wiki."
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Never really had that feeling. I do, however, finish 99% of novels I start. Only novel I gave up was The Simarillion, and I know I'm not alone there.
Does that even count as a novel? I thought it was more like a collection of JRRT's backstory notes.
I'd say it's a novel. It's written somewhat like the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring, where it details the hobbits, just more-so like a history text. And confusing and boring as watching paint dry on growing grass.
I once heard someone say "If JRRT had had access to the Internet, the Simarillion would all be in the Tolkein wiki."
And probably The Hobbit would have been podcasted.
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...and "Harry Potter and Prisoner of Azkawhatever" by J.K. Rowling. I dropped the whole Potter series right there too, 100 pages in.
Intriguing. Why?
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...and "Harry Potter and Prisoner of Azkawhatever" by J.K. Rowling. I dropped the whole Potter series right there too, 100 pages in.
Intriguing. Why?
Disclaimer -
Please take the following fact into consideration before reading my answer - I HATE fantasy literature, all fantasy literature except for Robert E. Howard's Conan, Kull, and Solomon Kane stories, and even those try my patience after two or so tales in less than a month. My hatred of fantasy lit is documented in the commentary "The Fantasy Haters Lament" available in the archives of The Writing Show (www.writingshow.com) as well. I don't listen to Podcastle (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't read Fantasy and Science Fiction (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't even like the fake fantasy lit, Glory Road, written by my all time favorite author, Robert E. Heinlein (because I hate fantasy lit). I hate fantasy gaming, I hate World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy (1-infinity). I hate Dungeons and Dragons, LARPING, Renaissance fairs (faires), Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Lloyd Alexander, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Krull (which I read as a kid before I saw the movie also as a kid), Xena, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly (just threw that in there for good measure).
Second disclaimer - I like fantasy lit as presented in movies. The Potter flicks were great fun, I even liked the Azkabandana film, the CS Lewis adaptations were good, and the Tolkein ones were three movies too long, but the battle scenes were great, I even sort of like Krull. (I hate Firefly as a film too). I love asian fantasy movies (the Majin films, for example, are some of my favorites), and some of Myazaki's older stuff.
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Short answer to why I gave up on Prisoner of Azkabanana - because it was crap.
Long answer - the first 100 pages were a retelling of the previous two crappy books, which I'd grown increasingly bored with from the second chapter of Philosopher's Stone. I could see how the journey was developing and didn't care if Harry was killed and eaten by super-intelligent carrots at that point. Never did I find a character to sympathize with after my initial understand of how Harry would develop through the series made itself clear in the second book, or how Rowling's storytelling style wasn't going to change irrespective of how many additional unnecessary pages of mcguffin-ising she added to each volume.
I realize I am the odd man out on this one, but lots of people never read Moby Dick and I read it once a year and try to participate in a 24 hour marathon read of it every January (my longest sitting span was 8 hours), so I figure in some way that balances the scales of the universe.
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I have Moby Dick on my bookshelf waiting to be read... way too busy with school right now to pick it up, and I have a few books ahead of it on the queue. :\
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Disclaimer -
Please take the following fact into consideration before reading my answer - I HATE fantasy literature, all fantasy literature except for Robert E. Howard's Conan, Kull, and Solomon Kane stories, and even those try my patience after two or so tales in less than a month. My hatred of fantasy lit is documented in the commentary "The Fantasy Haters Lament" available in the archives of The Writing Show (www.writingshow.com) as well. I don't listen to Podcastle (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't read Fantasy and Science Fiction (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't even like the fake fantasy lit, Glory Road, written by my all time favorite author, Robert E. Heinlein (because I hate fantasy lit). I hate fantasy gaming, I hate World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy (1-infinity). I hate Dungeons and Dragons, LARPING, Renaissance fairs (faires), Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Lloyd Alexander, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Krull (which I read as a kid before I saw the movie also as a kid), Xena, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly (just threw that in there for good measure).
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Short answer to why I gave up on Prisoner of Azkabanana - because it was crap Fantasy.
Fixed that for you, sir :)
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Disclaimer -
Please take the following fact into consideration before reading my answer - I HATE fantasy literature, all fantasy literature except for Robert E. Howard's Conan, Kull, and Solomon Kane stories, and even those try my patience after two or so tales in less than a month. My hatred of fantasy lit is documented in the commentary "The Fantasy Haters Lament" available in the archives of The Writing Show (www.writingshow.com) as well. I don't listen to Podcastle (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't read Fantasy and Science Fiction (because I hate fantasy lit), I don't even like the fake fantasy lit, Glory Road, written by my all time favorite author, Robert E. Heinlein (because I hate fantasy lit). I hate fantasy gaming, I hate World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy (1-infinity). I hate Dungeons and Dragons, LARPING, Renaissance fairs (faires), Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Lloyd Alexander, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Krull (which I read as a kid before I saw the movie also as a kid), Xena, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly (just threw that in there for good measure).
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Short answer to why I gave up on Prisoner of Azkabanana - because it was crap Fantasy.
Fixed that for you, sir :)
Uh... no you didn't. ( I see what you did there :p )
Dang it, how do I do a tongue-out smiley??
(on further edit and reflection) - I don't want to suggest that it's crap because it's fantasy, that's not really what I mean. I have a predisposition to dislike fantasy immensely, but there is lots of other stuff out there that's also crap and isn't fantasy. It's just that I thought Prisoner of Azkaban was actual crap, not because it was fantasy (I really liked the film version of it) but because the writing and storytelling was crap and had it been about non magical bullshit, it would have still been crap.
Hope that amends things.
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It's gotta be a capital P! :P
I think its interesting that fantasy works for you visually but not in the written word. :)
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It's gotta be a capital P! :P
I think its interesting that fantasy works for you visually but not in the written word. :)
Yeah, it's weird that way. Visually I really like it, any other way and I don't. I also like ketchup in my tuna salad. Go figure.
:P
Also (I'm in an editing mood) - This isn't to suggest there isn't excellent fantasy out there, I am certain that there is or there would be no audience for it, it's just that even the best of it doesn't suit my pallet.
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It's gotta be a capital P! :P
I think its interesting that fantasy works for you visually but not in the written word. :)
Yeah, it's weird that way. Visually I really like it, any other way and I don't. I also like ketchup in my tuna salad. Go figure.
:P
Also (I'm in an editing mood) - This isn't to suggest there isn't excellent fantasy out there, I am certain that there is or there would be no audience for it, it's just that even the best of it doesn't suit my pallet.
Which is why I suggested that even if you'd thought it was exceptionally written fantasy, you still would've hated it. Because it was fantasy literature.
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It's gotta be a capital P! :P
I think its interesting that fantasy works for you visually but not in the written word. :)
Yeah, it's weird that way. Visually I really like it, any other way and I don't. I also like ketchup in my tuna salad. Go figure.
:P
Also (I'm in an editing mood) - This isn't to suggest there isn't excellent fantasy out there, I am certain that there is or there would be no audience for it, it's just that even the best of it doesn't suit my pallet.
Which is why I suggested that even if you'd thought it was exceptionally written fantasy, you still would've hated it. Because it was fantasy literature.
But I didn't think it was exceptionally written, thats' why it's crap.
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So, the world is divided into the exceptionally written and the crap? Or maybe it's divided into those who can't tell when something is crap and aren't smart enough to enjoy Moby Dick, and those who can and do.
I know that there's a more leeway in these forums when discussing/reviewing stories and books that did not appear in an EA podcast - and I know far worse has been written about Harry Potter - but someone offers a review of "it's crap" and a slightly longer version which amounts to "I hated it because I hated it", I do start wondering if they understood the forum's rules.
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It's gotta be a capital P! :P
I think its interesting that fantasy works for you visually but not in the written word. :)
Yeah, it's weird that way. Visually I really like it, any other way and I don't. I also like ketchup in my tuna salad. Go figure.
:P
Also (I'm in an editing mood) - This isn't to suggest there isn't excellent fantasy out there, I am certain that there is or there would be no audience for it, it's just that even the best of it doesn't suit my pallet.
Which is why I suggested that even if you'd thought it was exceptionally written fantasy, you still would've hated it. Because it was fantasy literature.
But I didn't think it was exceptionally written, thats' why it's crap.
Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear there, Jeff :)
I was amused by your post because you started out by saying you hated all written fantasy (i.e., that it was crap), with a few very limited exceptions (Howard). And so I think you probably would've called it crap, even if it had been a different fantasy novel.
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So, the world is divided into the exceptionally written and the crap? Or maybe it's divided into those who can't tell when something is crap and aren't smart enough to enjoy Moby Dick, and those who can and do.
I know that there's a more leeway in these forums when discussing/reviewing stories and books that did not appear in an EA podcast - and I know far worse has been written about Harry Potter - but someone offers a review of "it's crap" and a slightly longer version which amounts to "I hated it because I hated it", I do start wondering if they understood the forum's rules.
Wow, passive aggressive much, Eyetanz?
Someone asked why I didn't like Harry Potter, I gave an answer, you don't like the answer? Gee, don't take it personally. I never said anything about Moby Dick and smartness, just to contrast that it's a book that the vast majority of modern readers dislike immensely, but which I enjoy.
My dislike of Rowling's writing doesn't diminish you as a person because you like her work, just ask anyone, I'm sure everyone else here thinks your awesome.
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So, the world is divided into the exceptionally written and the crap? Or maybe it's divided into those who can't tell when something is crap and aren't smart enough to enjoy Moby Dick, and those who can and do.
I know that there's a more leeway in these forums when discussing/reviewing stories and books that did not appear in an EA podcast - and I know far worse has been written about Harry Potter - but someone offers a review of "it's crap" and a slightly longer version which amounts to "I hated it because I hated it", I do start wondering if they understood the forum's rules.
Wow, passive aggressive much, Eyetanz?
I don't think I was being particularly passive.
Someone asked why I didn't like Harry Potter, I gave an answer, you don't like the answer? Gee, don't take it personally.
I didn't take it personally. I am a moderator, and I felt I should point out that your statements about Harry Potter would have not been acceptable in an episode thread. I probably should have just said so instead of appealing to generalities, but I've been marking papers all day and the styles tend to get mixed.
I never said anything about Moby Dick and smartness, just to contrast that it's a book that the vast majority of modern readers dislike immensely, but which I enjoy.
You're right - I was reading things into what you said there, and I apologize for that.
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I realize I am the odd man out on this one, but lots of people never read Moby Dick and I read it once a year and try to participate in a 24 hour marathon read of it every January (my longest sitting span was 8 hours), so I figure in some way that balances the scales of the universe.
Different strokes for different folks. I thought Moby Dick was as much fun as a turd in a punchbowl.
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Also (I'm in an editing mood) - This isn't to suggest there isn't excellent fantasy out there, I am certain that there is or there would be no audience for it, it's just that even the best of it doesn't suit my pallet palate.
Fixed that for you, sir ;-)
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Disclaimer -
Please take the following fact into consideration before reading my answer - I HATE fantasy literature, all fantasy literature except for Robert E. Howard's Conan... (etc)
Cool, thanks for taking the time to reply in detail, I appreciate it. I'm interested to hear why people don't like "popular" stuff and I think you explained your frustrations with HP pretty well. It's especially interesting when something is widely enjoyed unlike, say, The Da Vinci Code which tends to polarise people pretty quickly.
On the fantasy side, I hear you. I'm not as averse as you to "fantasy" literature but I do think a lot of it is terribly derivative and dull. I actually don't mind derivative stuff as long as it's done well, but it so rarely is.
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Fantasy, in my experience, is a genre almost as spoiled as Historical Fiction by crap.
There are some really wonderful pieces of Fantasy out there, just as there are some really wonderful pieces of Historical Fiction, it's just that you have to wade through so much utter crap to actually get to the good stuff that you're almost better off just going and reading some sci-fi because you have decent odds of whatever you pick up being good.
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For the first 45 years of my reading life, I always finished a novel, no matter how painful, just out of politeness to the author, and in the hope that it got better.
About 15 years ago, I decided that my time was getting too valuable, so I started ditching books if I didn't like the first 25% or so. I tried to read Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, since the movie was passably entertaining, but I gave up on the book after about 30 pages.
Now I have trouble setting aside the time to read stuff I really like, possibly because I'm spoiled by podcasts and audiobooks, and even those don't always get finished.
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Fantasy, in my experience, is a genre almost as spoiled as Historical Fiction by crap.
This. I love historical fiction (what can I say, I'm *almost* out of British classics), but so much of it is extremely poorly written. If you happen to be looking for a good author, I can't recommend Anya Seton enough. She was one of the first to, ya know, actually do research on her subject and did a lot toward legitimizing the genre. I've read 7 of her 10 novels so far, and each one is a winner. :)
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I hate ... Buffy, Angel, and Firefly (just threw that in there for good measure).
...(I hate Firefly as a film too)
Hey Jeff, not that I'm pole-jocking or anything, but I just wanna say I think you're the man :)
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It's especially interesting when something is widely enjoyed unlike, say, The Da Vinci Code which tends to polarise people pretty quickly.
See, here's the thing: I enjoyed The Da Vinci Code. I enjoyed the movie, for slightly different reasons (The fact it was a film entirely about someone who was clever figuring stuff out, which is a nice change and also, the final images? The Scholar Knight stuff? Yeah that hit me where I live) but I enjoyed the book. Weirdly, never bothered with Angels & Demons and HATED the movie version of that.
But, for me, there's a difference between enjoy and like. The Da Vinci Code was a pizza, for me, a piece of one shot entertainment that did exactly what I needed it to do and resided in my brain exactly as long as it should. I didn't like it, but I enjoyed the hell out of it because as a delivery vehicle for a one shot pop culture jolt, it was pretty kickass.
Oh I enjoyed the Twilight movies too. Not liked. Enjoyed.
Now, I can hear the internet's engines of derision already starting to power up but you know what? I don't care. Pop culture, which is what we all do, what we all swim in, is a massively broad church and there's no shame at all in enjoying something that's a little or a lot trashy. The trick, for me at any rate, is to keep your mind open, keep your horizons wide. Because there's some amazing books and TV and movies and games out there (The Dead Space Wii game? OH MY GOD! AMAZINGLY atmospheric and cool) and a lot of them sit out past the red line of your comfort zone. This being why I watched the Upstairs Downstairs sequel over Christmas, which was actually pretty great:)
So yeah, enjoy stuff, like stuff, TRY NEW THINGS, it's amazing what you can find.
On the fantasy side, I hear you. I'm not as averse as you to "fantasy" literature but I do think a lot of it is terribly derivative and dull. I actually don't mind derivative stuff as long as it's done well, but it so rarely is.
It's weird because it's possible to have exactly the same bad experience with every genre. I have, or had, issues with fantasy and I have a friend who won't go near horror because of some stuff she read when she was a teenager. Likewise, I have family members who won't go near any genre fiction but will read Stephen King because that's 'different'. Which of course takes us back to the pop culture delivery vehicle, and what Warren Ellis called 'airport fiction' and brings us full circle:)
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That's a nicely reasoned piece, Al. I totally get the difference between "like" and "enjoy" in this context.
Oh, and Dead Space? Bought that through Steam, played it on the PC without knowing anything about it. Original? No. Enjoyable? HELL YES!! Dripping with atmosphere, mood and a genuine feeling of threat -- loved every second of it. Well, not so much the repeatedly dying at the final boss. But, y'know.
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I totally get the difference between "like" and "enjoy" in this context.
Me too. My husband and I often argue about Netflix ratings thusly:
"Why did you rate it 'liked'? It was terrible!"
"I 'liked' it at the time but I'm never going to watch it again."