1. For me the big reveal at the end made the story a complete POV failure. Throughout the whole story I'm supposed to be relating to Cory, learning about her background, understanding her motivations. And I thought I was, until she invited her boyfriend to stay at the house, which seemed completely out of character but I was still curious why she would do that. And then suddenly at the very end we learn that she was the one the rumors spoke of more than 30 minutes of story prior, that she knew who the ghost was all along and was in fact his murderer, etc.... I guess it was withheld for dramatic irony, but to me this signaled complete and utter failure of Point of View, and ruined the things that I liked about the story because it turns out the apparently good characterization was just carefully crafted BS to string me along to the twist ending. If you're going to tell a story in close perspective and let me see a character's internal thoughts and reactions, then withholding that kind of relevant backstory destroys every iota of good characterization that you've created throughout the rest of the story. Arg.
Damn. I really liked this story, until I read Unblinking's post. Maybe I should just dump the forums.
I don't feel too comfortable going into #2 (not yet, at least) because that's really more of a YMMV thing, but regarding the first point: I've read/listened to this story 5-6 times now, and I'd encourage you give it another listen. It's all there, in every scene, especially with the mother/daughter conversation. The author uses a tight and limited 3rd person POV and never lies. Actually, for me on the rereads/relistens, I'm kind of shocked I didn't see it coming, because it's so well laid out.
I don't feel too comfortable going into #2 (not yet, at least) because that's really more of a YMMV thing, but regarding the first point: I've read/listened to this story 5-6 times now, and I'd encourage you give it another listen. It's all there, in every scene, especially with the mother/daughter conversation. The author uses a tight and limited 3rd person POV and never lies. Actually, for me on the rereads/relistens, I'm kind of shocked I didn't see it coming, because it's so well laid out.
When the neighbor tells her about the history of the house and tells about herself, and of the girlending up in an asylum, the fact that Cory is able to recognize it as her OWN history is a relevant and vital detail for her POV. Likewise when she realizes the ghost is her boyfriend prior to talking to the neighbor. Likewise the fact that she has lived in this house before when she signs up for it way back at the beginning.
I don't feel too comfortable going into #2 (not yet, at least) because that's really more of a YMMV thing, but regarding the first point: I've read/listened to this story 5-6 times now, and I'd encourage you give it another listen. It's all there, in every scene, especially with the mother/daughter conversation. The author uses a tight and limited 3rd person POV and never lies. Actually, for me on the rereads/relistens, I'm kind of shocked I didn't see it coming, because it's so well laid out.
When the neighbor tells her about the history of the house and tells about herself, and of the girlending up in an asylum, the fact that Cory is able to recognize it as her OWN history is a relevant and vital detail for her POV. Likewise when she realizes the ghost is her boyfriend prior to talking to the neighbor. Likewise the fact that she has lived in this house before when she signs up for it way back at the beginning.
See, that's why I'm recommending you give it another listen. Because she does recognize her story from the neighbors. And in the opening scene, there's a few tells as to her history in the house. As I said, it's all in there.
I don't believe we ever get inside Cory's head in this story. We only see her actions, her reactions, and hear her words.
Edited for typos/clarity
The story was full of her internal reactions and that implies, to me at least, that I'm in her head. I'm told that she tastes dirty water, told when she felt aroused, told when she felt the rush of excitement. If I'm told when the protagonist feels aroused then I consider that being pretty solidly "in her head", and if it's somehow "in her head" for that kind of reaction, but not for vital details like knowledge of her previous residence and murder inside this house, then I'd call that an inconsistent POV.
It's not that I'm opposed to giving it a second listen, but I believe you when you say that no untruths are told, and that the clues are there if you know what's coming. But for me that doesn't really change my opinion.
Likewise, I thought that she was going to use that ghost as an ersatz kinky lover-on-the-side in order to avoid actually betraying Mr. Right with another man, and I was slightly nonplussed when she didn't.
Likewise, I thought that she was going to use that ghost as an ersatz kinky lover-on-the-side in order to avoid actually betraying Mr. Right with another man, and I was slightly nonplussed when she didn't.
Yes, exactly, except for the nonplussed part. I was concerned about her taking the kinky lover, not because of the kink but because it was missing at least the first third, maybe two, of the "safe, sane and consensual" mantra that practitioners of kink should follow. So for my part, I was somewhat relieved when my fears were unfounded.
Were we told how much time has passed since she previously lived in that house? How old is she, again?
But everything is OK now
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?
The ghost can't hurt her. She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge. So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.
I felt that the hide/reveal was pretty fair, in the sense of a good murder mystery, in which the author gives you just enough clues - but only just enough and no more - for you to figure out whodunnit.
Ah. See, I'd argue that because we know the water tastes dirty or because we see her react to something as if she'd been aroused, we're not really in her head. I meant deeper into her psyche/thought patterns, so apologies if I wasn't clear.
I'm in the camp that believes murder is wrong and finds it a tad difficult to sympathize with Cory. That is NOT to say that I discount the abuse she endured and suffered through.
I'm in the camp that believes murder is wrong and finds it a tad difficult to sympathize with Cory. That is NOT to say that I discount the abuse she endured and suffered through.
I don't condone murder either, but men like whatshisname make me sympathetic to the "he needed killing" defense.
... what she did ultimately led to many other women and girls being abused by her husband. Granted, she had no way of knowing he would end up as a ghost...but she DID murder him instead of leaving him or having him prosecuted.
I dunno. I could totally see writing an interesting story from the ghost's point of view: "sure, I was a violent jerk in life, but she could have just left me. She didn't need to blow me apart with a shotgun. And since then, I've been happy to just try to keep my house empty so I can brood in peace, but here she comes, moving in, defying me, and getting set to torment me forever. Don't I ever get to rest?"
I dunno. I could totally see writing an interesting story from the ghost's point of view: "sure, I was a violent jerk in life, but she could have just left me. She didn't need to blow me apart with a shotgun. And since then, I've been happy to just try to keep my house empty so I can brood in peace, but here she comes, moving in, defying me, and getting set to torment me forever. Don't I ever get to rest?"
Wow, really? I can't imagine any story that would make me sympathize with this guy. Even as a ghost with blood pouring from his chest, he's fixated on hating and hurting women.
And abusive men generally do not take well to being left by their victims. They want to be the ones in power and allowing her to decide when to leave gives her too much power. She almost certainly could not have left him, at least not easily.
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?
The ghost can't hurt her. She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge. So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?
The ghost can't hurt her. She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge. So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.
Her assumption is that the ghost will leave them alone, if she shows it that she doesnt care what it does to her, nothing in the story actually confirms that, for all we know the ghost could call her bluff and continue.
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?
The ghost can't hurt her. She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge. So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.
Her assumption is that the ghost will leave them alone, if she shows it that she doesnt care what it does to her, nothing in the story actually confirms that, for all we know the ghost could call her bluff and continue.
The story established two things:
1 - Men were never able to percieve the ghost. This could, of course, have been the ghost's decision, but in the past it has only manifested to women.
2 - The ghost was not capable of having any physical effect on its environment, not even when Cory provoked it as much as she could. It was not capable of moving objects, or hurting her, or even touching her.
I could be completely wrong but
1. I thought that it just didnt care about men, not that they couldnt see it.
2. I had the distinct impression that the ghost actually tried to rape the women, and that it had no problem doing physical things to them and that it simply wanted to scare Cory first.
After the elderly neighbors said that men never see the ghost, I was really thinking she was going to take a ghostly abusive lover on the side and her nice not-kinky boyfriend would never be the wiser.
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?
I mean, nobody actually thinks this was a happy ending, right?
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?
Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.
Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?
Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.
One or more of the following (and possibly some others):
1. Ghost possesses boyfriend and cycle begins anew. This is where I thought the story was going itself, so the thought was still in my mind at the end and the story did not convince me that it is impossible.
2. Cory's relationships get worse and worse as she plays out her exhibitionist revenge fantasy with her ghosty nemesis.
3. Cory eventually goes insane. Just because the ghost may not be able to physically harm her doesn't mean it can't affect her.
Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?"
Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?"
I agree that this is by far the more interesting question. What's your answer?
...But then again, we don't know what happened when she killed him - was it premeditated? an accident? neither?...
[/quote]Okay, am I the only one who thinks this is just the prelude to a much longer, much darker story?
Going where exactly? We can debate whether the ending was happy or not (though I think that's sort of the wrong way to put it), but I find it hard to see this story as a prelude to anything.
One or more of the following (and possibly some others):
1. Ghost possesses boyfriend and cycle begins anew. This is where I thought the story was going itself, so the thought was still in my mind at the end and the story did not convince me that it is impossible.
The story definitely doesn't rule it out, in that same way that, say, Star Wars doesn't rule out Han Solo dying from a peanut allergy two minutes after the end of Revenge of the Jedi, but there's no indication that the ghost can possess anyone, so I wouldn't say it's supported by the story either.Quote2. Cory's relationships get worse and worse as she plays out her exhibitionist revenge fantasy with her ghosty nemesis.
Possible, but this one goes directly against Cory's actions and words in the story. Especially since her revenge fantasy is "I'm going to have a good relationship where you can see it". It's possible that she's not as self aware as she thinks, but I don't think the story gives us any overt reason to question its narrative to this degree.Quote3. Cory eventually goes insane. Just because the ghost may not be able to physically harm her doesn't mean it can't affect her.
This is the most likely of the three, in my opinion. It goes against my own reading, but unlike the other two, it doesn't rely on introducing a new ghostly power or mistrusting everything Cory says, it only relies on the idea that Cory overestimates her ability to control the situation. Which I do think is consistent with the story, and supported by at least some of it (like the conversation with her mother).
However, I don't think the story actually suggests any follow-up of this nature. I think it compatible with one, but it still needs to be supplied by the reader. Which makes me still resistant to calling it a "just the prelude" to anything.
Also, as I hinted on in the last reply, I think the question of Cory's fate after the story ends is the wrong one. To me, the more interesting question this story raises is: "Cory murdered her abuser, hid his body, and now subjugated his ghost. Did she have the right to do that? Did the husband deserve his fate? What sort of person does that make Cory?" Giving the story the holywood horror sequel treatment ("you thought it was all ok, but...") just seems like a very superficial approach.
it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.
Surprisingly, I really enjoyed it. Because what I DO really love is a juicy REVENGE story. :)
...But then again, we don't know what happened when she killed him - was it premeditated? an accident? neither?...
I think we do, or at least my recollection of the story says so. I seem to recall that when the ghost was standing the the kitchen doorway there was some kind of awful chest/head wound. Couple that with Cory's possession of a shotgun, which she kept under her bed, and I think we can say it was, on some level, premeditated. (a) Possession of a shotgun in this situation implies the thought of using it; (b) It was probably kept in the same place when she lived there before; (c) a shotgun is not a self-defense weapon i.e. something you pick up, like a kitchen knife, in an extremity of terror. If it was under the bed she'd have to deliberately go get it. It's possible she was chased in there by her husband and she reached under the bed to get it, but less likely.
it seems pretty clear to me that she's an unreliable narrator.
Um, you can say a lot of things about this story, but one thing that can be said is surely incontroversial is that she's not a narrator of any type.