Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Science Fiction Discussion => Topic started by: Simon on July 28, 2007, 09:24:17 AM
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I was thinking about changing SF values over the last 60 years, and it came to me "did people used to smoke in Sci Fi spaceships?".
So, to take it further.. Has anyone got any examples for me: did they light up a joint on board Dark Star or Silent Running? Did Barbarella sexily grasp a Marlboro between her dainty fingers?
All examples, in movie comics and books gladly taken.
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Not really a specific example, but I know that in (the original) Jonny Quest and the Thunderbirds TV show, people smoked all over the place.
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i am farly shur thare are a few exampels,
was the origanal starbuck not ofter sean tooting on a cigar?
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i am farly shur thare are a few exampels,
was the origanal starbuck not ofter sean tooting on a cigar?
The new one does it too.
I think I can forgive the smoking on Galactica, though, because these people are refugees, even if they're also officers. Plus, pilots are traditionally the mavericks of any fictional (and maybe nonfictional, but I don't know for sure because I was never in the military) army.
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I was thinking about changing SF values over the last 60 years, and it came to me "did people used to smoke in Sci Fi spaceships?".
So, to take it further.. Has anyone got any examples for me: did they light up a joint on board Dark Star or Silent Running? Did Barbarella sexily grasp a Marlboro between her dainty fingers?
All examples, in movie comics and books gladly taken.
Funny. On Time Tunnel I believe the first astronauts to the moon were smoking on the way there. I may be wrong. Pretty funny episode, by the way.
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Well I'm pretty sure that there was some dope on the Enterprise for some of those Star Trek movies.
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People definitely smoked in Alien. I'm pretty sure one of the marines smoked in Aliens, but not 100% if it was on the spaceship or not.
There's some funny dialogue in the movie, "Thank You For Smoking" in which they're talking about advertising cigarettes in a SF movie:
Nick Naylor: Cigarettes in space?
Jeff Megall: It's the final frontier, Nick.
Nick Naylor: But wouldn't they blow up in an all oxygen environment?
Jeff Megall: Probably. But it's an easy fix. One line of dialogue. 'Thank God we invented the... you know, whatever device.
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In "Aliens", early in the film, there is a long shot of Ripley's cigarette -- ashes down to the filter -- after she finds out Weyland-Yutani sanctioned a colony on LV-426. This is while she's still on Gateway station. I'm not sure I ever saw the marines actually smoke (although I think Vasquez does during Ripley's briefing), but Apone seems to constantly chew on an unlit cigar during the prep for drop to the surface.
I'm fairly sure there was smoking in "Galaxy of Terror", as well.
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Ah, it must've been Apone's unlit cigar I was thinking of. I didn't remember that he never lit it. That's a nice touch.
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IIRC there is smoking in Event Horizon.
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Is there smoking in 2010? I think one of the russians smokes.
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I really don't have a specific example, but I'm not sure I understand either.
Kinda like the "Smoking Guy" quote, air scrubbers or whatever fancy tech would certainly make living in outspace/spaceships as much like living on a planet. And considering the type of cargo freighter in "Alien" the crew would likely indulge in all sorts of vices to kill time.
On the Holodeck on a ST:NG episode they had a smoke filled bar....
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Yah, there was smoking in First Contact.
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Most of the examples i can think of involved doctors of one kind or another.
I think Dr. Baltar has a cheroot onboard the Galactica in some episode of the new BSG series.
I think Dr Cottle (played by Donelly Rhodes) has a few cigarettes (in Sick Bay, yet) also on New BSG.
And didn't Dr. Boyce, the ship's doctor in ST-TOS episode(s) "The Cage"/The Menagerie" fire up a pipe when he was chatting in private with Captain Pike?
Not-the-doctor:
Doesn't Zefram Cochrane light up a cigar when he fires up the Phoenix in "ST: First Contact"? (along with playing "Magic Carpet Ride")
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Yes, both Baltar and Cottle smoke in BSG. As well as Adama and Roslin on the planet (Boxing Episode Flashback).
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Once the War on Smoking is completed, and futuristic stories turn to other forms of bad-for-you drugs (ie: I have one where the main character is addicted to demerol, delivered by "push" injections into his hand), will those make movies automatically R-rated too? Do they already? I don't even know.
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As well as Adama and Roslin on the planet (Boxing Episode Flashback).
Ah, but the key element (in this discussion) is "on spacecraft".
I think the idea is to suggest that the technology is so sophisticated and space travel is so commonplace that the problem of using up valuable oxygen becomes trivial, as opposed to a kind of space travel where the resources are pushed to the limits in experimental craft.
I've seen a number of relatively recent movies or shows (not in futuristic settings) where they'll pointedly have, say, a doctor lighting up a cigarette, or a Suburban Dad with a pipe, in order to give it a '50s look. More likely, it's intended to be a bit of a satire of '50s shows.
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I think the idea is to suggest that the technology is so sophisticated and space travel is so commonplace that the problem of using up valuable oxygen becomes trivial, as opposed to a kind of space travel where the resources are pushed to the limits in experimental craft.
I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up. Plus you would have to be surrounded by all kinds of high-energy fuel. Very bad news.
Some videos of fire in space:
http://microgravity.grc.nasa.gov/combustion/cfm/cfm_index.htm (http://microgravity.grc.nasa.gov/combustion/cfm/cfm_index.htm)
I'll bet spaceships that allow smoking have HUGE insurance rates.
They smoked in the Fifth Element too. They had those crazy cigarettes that were almost all filter.
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I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up. Plus you would have to be surrounded by all kinds of high-energy fuel. Very bad news.
That was my point, that the hazards would be gone. Artificial gravity (or constant acceleration), non-chemical drive systems, fire-resistant materials, air to spare, etc.
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I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up. Plus you would have to be surrounded by all kinds of high-energy fuel. Very bad news.
That was my point, that the hazards would be gone. Artificial gravity (or constant acceleration), non-chemical drive systems, fire-resistant materials, air to spare, etc.
I think the biggest technical reason is that the air is recirculated and you need to filter out all of the smoke. Given how little room for extras and the limited supply of energy spaceships have, it's just an unneccessary luxury.
Mostly I think it will be a common sense thing. Most places will be built non-smoking for technical reasons and will stay that way well past the time they could switch over. This will be because of health reasons. With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
As far as fiction goes, Charactors smoke in SF for the same reason as in any fiction. It helps describe the charactor.
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I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up. Plus you would have to be surrounded by all kinds of high-energy fuel. Very bad news.
That was my point, that the hazards would be gone. Artificial gravity (or constant acceleration), non-chemical drive systems, fire-resistant materials, air to spare, etc.
I think the biggest technical reason is that the air is recirculated and you need to filter out all of the smoke. Given how little room for extras and the limited supply of energy spaceships have, it's just an unneccessary luxury.
Mostly I think it will be a common sense thing. Most places will be built non-smoking for technical reasons and will stay that way well past the time they could switch over. This will be because of health reasons. With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
As far as fiction goes, Charactors smoke in SF for the same reason as in any fiction. It helps describe the charactor.
I was kicking at retro-SF there, but i'm willing to believe you.. Raises a question tho: Has smoking always been banned on submarines?
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I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up. Plus you would have to be surrounded by all kinds of high-energy fuel. Very bad news.
That was my point, that the hazards would be gone. Artificial gravity (or constant acceleration), non-chemical drive systems, fire-resistant materials, air to spare, etc.
I think the biggest technical reason is that the air is recirculated and you need to filter out all of the smoke. Given how little room for extras and the limited supply of energy spaceships have, it's just an unneccessary luxury.
Mostly I think it will be a common sense thing. Most places will be built non-smoking for technical reasons and will stay that way well past the time they could switch over. This will be because of health reasons. With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
As far as fiction goes, Charactors smoke in SF for the same reason as in any fiction. It helps describe the charactor.
I was kicking at retro-SF there, but i'm willing to believe you.. Raises a question tho: Has smoking always been banned on submarines?
I think (notice how almost everything I've said on this topic starts with,"I think") it may still be OK. I knew a guy who was a tech on a missile sub. We never talked specifically about smoking on the sub, but he did tell me about his smoking history. He said he had been smoking since high school and had never gone a full day without a cigarette after that. The type of sub he was on would leave port and submerge and then come up 4 months or more later. If he smoked every day, he must have smoked on the sub. He couldn't have stepped outside.
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With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
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I think the biggest technical reason is that the air is recirculated and you need to filter out all of the smoke. Given how little room for extras and the limited supply of energy spaceships have, it's just an unneccessary luxury.
[snip]
This will be because of health reasons. With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
Open the history cubes ... Most health issues were eliminated well over a hundred years before the Terran Diaspora.
Don't forget, also, that unlimited energy from the Phlebotinum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AppliedPhlebotinum) Drive Generator is what made the Terran Diaspora possible. ;)
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With all of the dangers of being in space, why add lung cancer?
That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
Study released in 2004 (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6054) followed 34,000 subjects for over 50 years. If you smoke, you will die on average 10 years earlier and will have a 50% chance of dying from a smoking related illness like lung cancer. It ain't a marginal risk.
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That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
Study released in 2004 (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6054) followed 34,000 subjects for over 50 years. If you smoke, you will die on average 10 years earlier and will have a 50% chance of dying from a smoking related illness like lung cancer. It ain't a marginal risk.
For people on earth, sure. If 85% of spacefaring people end up dying of typical space-related causes (such as the spaceboard computer going insane, facehuggers, and being choked by a Sith Lord), then smoking may be somewhat marginalized as a danger.
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That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
Study released in 2004 (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6054) followed 34,000 subjects for over 50 years. If you smoke, you will die on average 10 years earlier and will have a 50% chance of dying from a smoking related illness like lung cancer. It ain't a marginal risk.
For people on earth, sure. If 85% of spacefaring people end up dying of typical space-related causes (such as the spaceboard computer going insane, facehuggers, and being choked by a Site Lord), then smoking may be somewhat marginalized as a danger.
Well, if that's the neighborhood of space you're going to be in, then you might as well just start shooting herion. In the nicer neighborhoods you only have to know how to avoid the tourists.
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It's not exactly a cigarette in space, but in one of my favorite Outer Limits episodes (original series, in black and white) a very young William Shatner is a pilot who goes into space and is exposed to something that is slowly transforming him into a monster. When he gets back to Earth all the doctors keep offering him a smoke and looking concerned when he refuses, taking it as a sign of his declining condition.
Also- though this is totally off topic- in the same episode, Shatner has a line where he tells his wife he's going into space "...to seek out new life...new experiences...new civilizations... new knowledge." I think Gene Roddenbury saw this one, or had some hand in it. It's sooo close to the Star Trek TOS intro. I dunno the episode title or # or anything, sorry, but if you find it you'll see what I mean.
Sigh- I'm new here, this will be my third post, and two of the three are about William Shatner. I think I need to stretch out a bit more.
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As of a 2002 article (discussing survey results in regards to the possibility of a ban), "Tobacco smoke has long been regarded as an acceptable contaminant on submerged submarines." (Norris, William D., Military Medicine, July 2002) (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200207/ai_n9095007)
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That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
Study released in 2004 (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6054) followed 34,000 subjects for over 50 years. If you smoke, you will die on average 10 years earlier and will have a 50% chance of dying from a smoking related illness like lung cancer. It ain't a marginal risk.
For people on earth, sure. If 85% of spacefaring people end up dying of typical space-related causes (such as the spaceboard computer going insane, facehuggers, and being choked by a Site Lord), then smoking may be somewhat marginalized as a danger.
Well, if that's the neighborhood of space you're going to be in, then you might as well just start shooting herion. In the nicer neighborhoods you only have to know how to avoid the tourists.
What I dislike about these statistics, is that they study people who have atrocious cigarette habits. For an example, when I was visiting Body Worlds 3 this summer, they posted the same study, along with the lungs of a person who smoked and yes, I am quoting this "... as few as 20 cigarettes a day.".
Now personally? I find this outrageous. Of course you are going to have an incredibly high chance of getting cancer if you are smoking (or exposed to 2nd hand) these vast quantities of burning toxins. But just because people with these incredibly bad habits are dying like flies, should not be a reason for you yourself to enjoy smoking.
Moderation is the key to everything. Someone who smokes 20 cigarettes a day will probably be just as bad off as someone who drinks 20 beers a day.
Sorry if this is too pro-cigarette for anyone, but I dislike misleading facts.
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That depends on how you assess personal risk. With all the dangers of being in space, why worry about something as marginal as lung cancer?
Study released in 2004 (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6054) followed 34,000 subjects for over 50 years. If you smoke, you will die on average 10 years earlier and will have a 50% chance of dying from a smoking related illness like lung cancer. It ain't a marginal risk.
For people on earth, sure. If 85% of spacefaring people end up dying of typical space-related causes (such as the spaceboard computer going insane, facehuggers, and being choked by a Site Lord), then smoking may be somewhat marginalized as a danger.
Well, if that's the neighborhood of space you're going to be in, then you might as well just start shooting herion. In the nicer neighborhoods you only have to know how to avoid the tourists.
What I dislike about these statistics, is that they study people who have atrocious cigarette habits. For an example, when I was visiting Body Worlds 3 this summer, they posted the same study, along with the lungs of a person who smoked and yes, I am quoting this "... as few as 20 cigarettes a day.".
Now personally? I find this outrageous. Of course you are going to have an incredibly high chance of getting cancer if you are smoking (or exposed to 2nd hand) these vast quantities of burning toxins. But just because people with these incredibly bad habits are dying like flies, should not be a reason for you yourself to enjoy smoking.
Moderation is the key to everything. Someone who smokes 20 cigarettes a day will probably be just as bad off as someone who drinks 20 beers a day.
Sorry if this is too pro-cigarette for anyone, but I dislike misleading facts.
First off. 20 cigarettes a day is a pack a day. I have never known a smoker who smoked less than 5 packs a week. I have known people who "only smoked socially". They're not what is referred to as a smoker. A smoker is someone with the habit. Moderation is out the window. Social smokers also aren't included in the statistics of how many people smoke.
The study I quoted before was for a study of doctors. People with substantially better knowledge of health practices, better health care, and a fairly high standard of living. They still died 10 years earlier than the normal person. I couldn't get the link for the study of normal people. (Damn Lancet is a pay site) That study with over 40,000 subjects over forty years came up with different results. In that study the smokers died on avaerage 22 years earlier.
Anyway, I glad smoking is getting banned everywhere. It has nothing to do with the health aspects of it. It has everything to do with the fact that smokers stink. If I came in from a run and smelled as potently as cigarette, everybody would tell me to get how, and would make comments on how disgusting I was.
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You know, I look at the topic of this thread, and it seems to me to be the plausibility of smoking on spacecraft, not why smoking is or isn't bad for you. Guess what, just about everyone knows that to some extent or another it is. And yet people still do it. So we can generally assume that people might still do it in the future, and hence it's worth discussing whether in-space smoking is likely or not. I really don't see where the health risks play into that discussion.
I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up.
Actually, it sounds like fires are generally weaker (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_360.html) in microgravity...
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You know, I look at the topic of this thread, and it seems to me to be the plausibility of smoking on spacecraft, not why smoking is or isn't bad for you. Guess what, just about everyone knows that to some extent or another it is. And yet people still do it. So we can generally assume that people might still do it in the future, and hence it's worth discussing whether in-space smoking is likely or not. I really don't see where the health risks play into that discussion.
Just jumping in to say "Here, Here"... I had taken it as read that smoking was on the decline, and that the idea of smoking on a spacecraft is bound to be way outside most peoples SF mindset now, whereas more common in old school SF. One nice example i've noticed since starting this thread would be Foundation (I am re-reading this), which seems to have someone lighting up a pipe every 1/2 page.
However, the militant anti-smoking crowd really will take any excuse to go on an anti-smoking tangent. I am not a smoker, I have never been a smoker... I have to admit to finding anti-smokers frustrating.
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I think the biggest concern would be fire. Zero-g fire is BAD. All the flames become spherical instead of pointed, so they go out in all directions instead of straight up.
Actually, it sounds like fires are generally weaker (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_360.html) in microgravity...
The American who spent the most time on Mir (sorry I forgot his name) saw several uncontroled fires during his stay. According to him they are extremely nasty, but not for the reasons we're thinking about.
Since heat doesn't rise, the flame doesn't cause it's own draft. This means it doesn't get as much fresh air this way and won't naturally "climb the walls". However the smoke doesn't either. This means you can't drop to the floor to get fresh. Spaceships usually have lots of fans blowing to help with air circulation and this circulates the smoke and feeds fresh air to the fire. The fire itself will take longer to cause real damage, but will kill you faster.
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First off. 20 cigarettes a day is a pack a day. I have never known a smoker who smoked less than 5 packs a week. I have known people who "only smoked socially". They're not what is referred to as a smoker. A smoker is someone with the habit. Moderation is out the window. Social smokers also aren't included in the statistics of how many people smoke.
I personally smoke between 2-4 cigarettes a week day (American Spirit organic, additive free), and usually only hookah once on the weekend. I do smoke more when I am around my friends who have pack a day habits, but even then I max out around five... it honestly starts to make me sick if I have much more. This is the habit I have had for the last two years.
I think that people can have healthy[ish] habits with vices; but moderation is not something we idealize in our society. We still seem to see things in black and white.
Since heat doesn't rise, the flame doesn't cause it's own draft. This means it doesn't get as much fresh air this way and won't naturally "climb the walls". However the smoke doesn't either. This means you can't drop to the floor to get fresh. Spaceships usually have lots of fans blowing to help with air circulation and this circulates the smoke and feeds fresh air to the fire. The fire itself will take longer to cause real damage, but will kill you faster.
The way I see it, the biggest obstacle to smoking in space is the type of air reclamation system that the ship would theoretically use. I watched Sunshine shortly after hearing the review on Escapepod, and I have to admit I fell in love with that plant room. But even in a heavily circulated area, you will get a buildup of tar and the smell would permeate the ship (especially if you have pack a day smokers). I honestly do not see smoking becoming a regular thing unless some sort of heavy duty filtration system was devised.
It would be more feasible when we start building larger stations (or ships), capable of filtering the air for dozens of people; but not for anything with a crew under ten.