Escape Artists

PodCastle => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Heradel on November 19, 2008, 07:14:16 AM

Title: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Heradel on November 19, 2008, 07:14:16 AM
PC034: Clad In Gossamer (http://podcastle.org/2008/11/19/pc034-clad-in-gossamer/)

By Nancy Kress (http://www.sff.net/people/nankress/)
Read by Paul S. Jenkins (of the Rev Up Review (http://www.revupreview.co.uk/) and The Fix Online (http://thefix-online.com/))

“Tell me again,” I said.

The shorter, older one said smoothly, “Garments in subtle colors like shaded sky, Your Highness. As finely spun and light to wear as spiderwebs. Yet warm, impervious to water, and impenetrable by stinging insects.”

I nodded eagerly, as if I believed this nonsense. “And the magic…”

“Ah, the magic. Tell him again, Sorrel.”


Rated R. for nudity. Contains fashion, or lack thereof.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on November 19, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Rated R. for nudity.


ummm ...  ???
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Heradel on November 19, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
Rated R. for nudity.
ummm ...  ???
There's language which makes it definitely not ok for the immature, apart from the upright content of one of the scenes.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Zathras on November 19, 2008, 05:32:05 PM
Wonderful twist on a classic tale.  It held most of my attention, while part of it raced ahead, unwilling to wait for the final confrontation.

What a clever twist upon a twist.  The confusion Jasper endured was amazing.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on November 20, 2008, 12:43:11 AM
Rated R. for nudity.
ummm ...  ???
There's language which makes it definitely not ok for the immature, apart from the upright content of one of the scenes.

I was questioning the advisement of "nudity" in a text/spoken word story.  "Mature themes" or "sexual content" sure, but "nudity"?
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: RKG on November 20, 2008, 01:02:12 AM
Rated R. for nudity.
ummm ...  ???
There's language which makes it definitely not ok for the immature, apart from the upright content of one of the scenes.
I was questioning the advisement of "nudity" in a text/spoken word story.  "Mature themes" or "sexual content" sure, but "nudity"?

Dang, and here I was thinking you were being all clever and questioning whether he was actually nude.

Another good story, BTW.  I have really enjoyed the Nancy Kress stories on Escape Pod (especially Ej-Es: http://escapepod.org/2007/07/26/ep116-ej-es/).
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on November 20, 2008, 02:25:25 AM
I was questioning the advisement of "nudity" in a text/spoken word story.  "Mature themes" or "sexual content" sure, but "nudity"?

Dang, and here I was thinking you were being all clever and questioning whether he was actually nude.

No, I hadn't listened to the story when I made that first post. 

Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm clever.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: ajames on November 20, 2008, 04:09:02 PM
A+
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Talia on November 20, 2008, 08:46:35 PM
I love this type of tale, and thought this was well done. The ending was particularly brilliant, with all that uncertainty, that not knowing, eating away at the protagonist. The way it was written made it so easy to get inside his head. I knew exactly what he must have been feeling at the end.. that gnawing uncertainty, the worry. That gut twisting feeling. I dont recall if it was stated so in the story, but I imagine he broke a bit of a sweat. I would.

 
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Zathras on November 20, 2008, 08:49:27 PM
I love this type of tale, and thought this was well done. The ending was particularly brilliant, with all that uncertainty, that not knowing, eating away at the protagonist. The way it was written made it so easy to get inside his head. I knew exactly what he must have been feeling at the end.. that gnawing uncertainty, the worry. That gut twisting feeling. I dont recall if it was stated so in the story, but I imagine he broke a bit of a sweat. I would.

 

he *ahem* wilted
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: CoachPaul on November 21, 2008, 07:07:09 PM
I kept waiting to hear Santino in the background saying, "Andre, where's Andre?"
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: eytanz on November 22, 2008, 09:20:51 PM
Wonderful twist on a classic tale.  It held most of my attention, while part of it raced ahead, unwilling to wait for the final confrontation.

What a clever twist upon a twist.  The confusion Jasper endured was amazing.

I agree entirely. Great story, building on a tale we all know but taking it in a new direction, and a pitch-perfect conclusion.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: MacArthurBug on November 24, 2008, 02:27:25 PM
I adored the uncertain ending.  The "twist" the the more well known story is vary acceptable IMHO.  I love "classic tale" twists and clever retellings.  I was nursed quite litereally on nursery rhymes and fairy tales.  As an adult I've re-discoveredm my favorite stories and am truly loving it.  Twists and re-tellings add the spice to the "happily ever after" in a way that is refreshing and also quite honest to these stories much darker and dirtier roots. 
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Hatton on November 24, 2008, 08:54:36 PM
Excellent story, though I'd have to challenge Twain's statement at the closing ("Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.") in today's world .  Ask anyone in marketing and you'll know that sex sells.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: eytanz on November 24, 2008, 09:18:10 PM
Excellent story, though I'd have to challenge Twain's statement at the closing ("Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.") in today's world .  Ask anyone in marketing and you'll know that sex sells.

It's normally not the naked people that are calling the shots, though. It's the people behind the camera who have the influence.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: deflective on November 24, 2008, 10:40:00 PM
(http://dlazechk.dl.funpic.org/ch930520.jpg) (http://dlazechk.dl.funpic.org/weekdayeatingworms2.html)
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Listener on November 26, 2008, 11:20:38 AM
Reading was fine.

I expected more of a twist -- Jasper would give the clothes to Florian, for example -- but in the end the clothes would be real to everyone except Jasper. And maybe they were. I just think the reader could have used more definitive proof. I wouldn't have minded the ending either way -- the clothes being real, or the clothes not being real -- but I just wanted to KNOW.

Far too much attention, I feel, was given to the princess's breasts. I think her exotic nature could've been handled without those details. The same with Jasper's wang. I mean, yeah, I think that would definitely weigh heavily on the mind of a naked man in clothed company, but again I think it was done a bit clumsily.

Liked it some, but didn't love it.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: wintermute on November 27, 2008, 01:45:07 AM
I wouldn't have minded the ending either way -- the clothes being real, or the clothes not being real -- but I just wanted to KNOW.
I thought not knowing was a good way to go, myself.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: LadyIndigo on December 11, 2008, 10:11:23 PM
I wouldn't have minded the ending either way -- the clothes being real, or the clothes not being real -- but I just wanted to KNOW.
I thought not knowing was a good way to go, myself.

I thought it sort of was the point, yes?  The idea that the prince, who I think I liked more than I should have, essentially is destroying himself believing everyone is as wrapped up in secrets and lies as he is.  You never really CAN know, in a world like that. 

I guessed the twist but was kept on edge anyway, because the story made me unsure enough as to whether it was going in that direction, and the payoff was still excellent.  I liked the subtle racism and sexism on the prince's part - unsettling until you realize it purely IS through his eyes, as are most of the -isms we carry, and it damages him as anything else in the failed plot.

Not sure if I like the boy from the original tale putting in an appearance.  It broke the flow of the scene, somewhat, like it was there because it had to be, but it also lent the interpretation that maybe the crown prince caught on from that, wasn't an idiot, and beat his brother at his own game.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Kaa on December 12, 2008, 04:45:08 PM
I loved the ambiguity of the ending, even though I predicted pretty much how it would end from early on.  But that didn't bother me, which I think is the mark of a good story. 

Retold fairy tales turns out to be one of my favorite sub-genres.  Tanith Lee published a collection of short stories some years back called Red as Blood with many stories of this type in it, and in spite of the fact that I haven't read it in years, this story stirred memories of it and it's now on my bedside table, awaiting a new perusal.

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for more of this type of story. :)  (And more of other types, as well, of course. But this is all about me. :) )
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on December 13, 2008, 03:02:46 AM
I didn't get ambiguity from this story.  I thought the reactions of the other people when he first stepped out "wearing" the "clothes" made it pretty obvious that he was bare-ass naked.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Rachel Swirsky on December 13, 2008, 04:08:32 AM
I _love_ Red as Blood.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on December 13, 2008, 05:01:44 AM
Retold fairy tales turns out to be one of my favorite sub-genres.  Tanith Lee published a collection of short stories some years back called Red as Blood with many stories of this type in it,... )

I have a copy of that, as-yet unread.  Just giving it a cursory glance though, it appears to be (or at least, appears to purport to be) a collection of older, closer-to-the-original, less-softened-up-for-the-kiddies versions of the fairy tales (like the versions of "Little Red Riding Hood" in the anime Jin Roh: Wolf Brigade or in the "Doll's House" arc of Gaiman's Sandman comic series were.)  Is this the case, or did Lee actually take original liberties with the stories?  (currently the only Tanith Lee I've read is Electric Forest, which I liked.)
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Rachel Swirsky on December 13, 2008, 05:27:50 AM
It's been a while since I read the Lee (I think I was in high school), but IMO the best fairy tale retellings are the ones that interact with the embedded sociocultural resonances of the text by playing with the symbols in the story. If I recall correctly, there's a good Beauty & the Beast retelling in that book.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: eytanz on December 13, 2008, 11:06:42 AM
I didn't get ambiguity from this story.  I thought the reactions of the other people when he first stepped out "wearing" the "clothes" made it pretty obvious that he was bare-ass naked.

In the end, he thinks that maybe the reaction hadn't been because he was naked, but because he was commiting the (rather grave) faux-pas of being more richly dressed than his brother.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: MacArthurBug on December 13, 2008, 02:28:12 PM
Rachel- I really liked it too. There exists, somewhere, a whole grouping of this sort of re-telling story collections. I've forgotten the titles now, because I give books away to my friends, least the start taking up too much room in my already too crowded house.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Rachel Swirsky on December 13, 2008, 06:29:18 PM
You might mean the series of books edited by Datlow/Windling that starts with "Snow White, Blood Red?" Those are _phenomenal._

There are two stories that appear in that series of anthologies that are on my short list of things I probably want to solicit (one of them is by Tanith Lee). Clad in Gossamer is from one of those anthologies as well.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: LadyIndigo on December 13, 2008, 06:37:50 PM
The Datlow/Windling anthologies are amazing, and didn't Clad in Gossamer come from one of those originally?  There's a lot of anthologies of retellings - Don't Bet On The Prince is an excellent feminist one, and Francesca Lia Block has a collection of stories just by her called The Rose and the Beast.  I saw a whole collection just discussing the problems in Rumplestiltskin, too, I think Jane Yolen was involved?  It's been a while.

Speaking of Rumplestiltskin, my girlfriend also has a novella published that retells the tale here: http://www.amazon.com/Tale-Millers-Daughter-JoSelle-Vanderhooft/dp/1411690931 (http://www.amazon.com/Tale-Millers-Daughter-JoSelle-Vanderhooft/dp/1411690931)  It's a gorgeous piece with a real turn of poetry to it, so I'd love to see her earn a reader or twenty.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: stePH on December 13, 2008, 10:20:30 PM
You might mean the series of books edited by Datlow/Windling that starts with "Snow White, Blood Red?" Those are _phenomenal._

Now I think of it, Tanith Lee has a followup to Red as Blood -- I've seen it on store shelves -- entitled White as Snow.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Windup on December 14, 2008, 08:03:33 PM
Late to this, and others have made most of the relevant comments, but I wanted to say that I absolutely loved this story.  Add me to the list of those saying, "More, please..."
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: MacArthurBug on December 30, 2008, 08:24:12 PM
You might mean the series of books edited by Datlow/Windling that starts with "Snow White, Blood Red?" Those are _phenomenal._

There are two stories that appear in that series of anthologies that are on my short list of things I probably want to solicit (one of them is by Tanith Lee). Clad in Gossamer is from one of those anthologies as well.

YES! Those would be the ones.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: JoeFitz on December 31, 2008, 03:27:34 PM
Well constructed, cleverly executed and wonderful reading. What more could we ask for from CP? Thanks.
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Agent_137 on February 05, 2009, 05:35:33 PM
excellent story all around, but i wanted jasper to win.  :-\
Title: Re: PC034: Clad In Gossamer
Post by: Unblinking on December 31, 2009, 05:53:41 PM
I'm clearly in the minority here.  I listened for a while, but didn't get to the point of anything that really diverged or expanded upon the original Emperor's New Clothes story.  I love reimaginings of old stories, but to the point that I listened this seemed more of a straight re-telling than a reimagining. 

But it sounds like no one else thought that, so I may give it a re-listen to see where the divergence occurs.  The writing and the reading both seemed very good, for what it's worth.