Escape Artists
PodCastle => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Heradel on April 08, 2009, 01:48:34 PM
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PC047 Giant Episode: Bright Waters (http://podcastle.org/2009/04/08/pc047-giant-episode-bright-waters/)
by John Brown (http://johndbrown.com/).
Read by Wilson Fowlie (http://www.maple-leaf-singers.com/).
He looked at their leg tattoos. Mohawk. One of the Iroquois tribes. Well, he couldn’t kill them then.
Not that he’d want to. They were, after all, just boys. Still, Indian boys weren’t like the lads back in Rotterdam. It had been small Abenaki lads, just like these, that tried to take his scalp the first year as a trapper. He’d killed them all with the blood flowing down the side of his face and a chunk of his scalp flapping about like a wig.
And so he’d need to be ready. Hunting knives hung from the belts at their waists. But none carried a war club. Only one held a bow.
Jan sneaked back the way he had come and then up and around in front of them so that the boys would walk right up the trail into him. The path bent around a hill where the river willow grew thick. He waited for them there.
He withdrew rope and a knife from his pack. He couldn’t kill them, but he could tie them up and scare them into good Christian men.
Rated R. Contains some sex and some violence and some fun battle scenes.
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This is a great story. I must say this is one of the best PC has run. I found myself engaged from the beginning to the end. I could see the end a mile away, but it did not detract me from enjoying it.
My only problem with the story is that the fantasy element, (a magic tattoo) was a little weak.
Good job PC, another winner along the lines of Moon Viewing at Shijo Bridge.
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Fabulous giant. Well read, well put together I saw the happily ever after ending and enjoyed the ride up to it. I sort of wished there had been better descriptions of the people that inhabited this tale, as they struck me as somehow diffrent then my "typical" image of native peoples of the same time period. The accents the narrator used threw me time and time again- but over all it was well read.
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I found this delightful. Just a little dash of fantasy to it. Most of the delight for me was just the sweet love story between this awkward guy and the woman.
I didnt find the fantasy element weak, personally.. I did find it sort of an extra, though. It certainly is NOT the centerpoint of the story.. that was the relationship that developed between this guy and the woman, which obviously wasn't influenced by the magic at all.
Which was the whole point.
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A very enjoyable story.
The only things I could say against it:
* The reader, I think, used TOO many different voices. The one for Lancaster, in particular, jolted me out of the narrative.
* Was it already time for another Giant Episode?
* The author used "and then he/and then she" way too many times.
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Excellent. I enjoyed it! I think this is the best podcastle yet.
I do agree, the fantasy element was quite weak. still enjoyable. I'm glad it was published.
I also liked how the religious elements were handled. very subtle, very nice that they weren't the point, just character traits.
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Getting the beating a dead horse out of the way first. Osaka's first comment upon the end of the episode was "What was fantasy about that?". I reminded her of the tattoo, and then had to explain to her again what it was supposed to do. So yeah, the "fantasy" in this is a bit iffy, but it was still a great story, and certainly a better one than the last Giant.
I liked the reading alot, and really enjoyed the way the battle scene was written and read. I didn't feel the accents were over-done, but that they differentiated the character's nicely. I wouldn't mind hearing more stories read by Mr. Fowlie.
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Not a bad story, and very well read. But for a large part of the story I was just pissed off that once again there is so much emphasis given to physical appearances.
Why is it such an important trope of the genre? why is it so often that in fantasy stories the protagonist can only find his/her love after undergoing some magical improvement, be it a love potion, an elixir to make them more beautiful or make others see their inner beauty or make them younger or thinner or in some way overcome their ugliness by doing great deeds or something of the sort.
Obviously, in this story the point was that the main character finds his love in the end not because she is magically tricked into thinking he is more attractive than he really is (although I don't think we ever find out she is immune to the magic of the tattoo), but because she is just as much an outsider in society and awkward as he is and they get along very well, etc etc. .... Ok, fine. But that does not change the fact that people in their environment seem to put a lot of emphasis on physical appearances, otherwise he would not have been given the tattoo in the first place. It is just getting a bit annoying to see it being such a driving factor in the genre that I am starting to resent it a bit.
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Really well researched (seemingly, since I don't know much about the history) and such an interesting combination of cultures intermingling. I agree that it didn't feel like fantasy, but I'm not sure I really care about that.
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Gets a thumbs up from me. And I think it easily qualifies as fantasy. The magical element was important - actually pretty central - to the story. That it's just one element of fantasy made it stronger. Adding Iroquois Werewolves or something would have diluted the effect.
And I like any story that treats Native Americans in a fair and interesting fashion without resorting to turning the European settlers into round eyed devils.
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I don't have a lot to add except that I really loved this one. More colonial American fantasy, I say.
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Fabulous.
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I enjoyed the story, but the i felt the fantasy element was so weak as to be near nonexistent. There wasn't anything to suggest to me that the tattoo actually worked on Whatsername. I prefer to think that it didn't; so if that's the case, then the only fantastic part of the story was that it seemed to work on other women he had no interest in. To me, the whole tattoo thing could have been taken out completely and the story wouldn't have gained or lost anything. So, while i enjoyed it, the strong support from everyone else makes me worry that we'll get more stories that can barely be defined as fantasy. While i certainly don't mind it if it's a good story, i'd prefer it not be overdone.
For what it's worth, i feel like this first year of Podcastle has spanned the genre quite nicely (this one included)!
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I liked this one. But I'm partial to historicals (not just the ones in feudal Japan, although they are a favorite).
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Uh-oh, stePH and I both liked this one. Is that a bad thing?
Now that I have a little time, I'd like to say more than just, "Fabulous".
This story could have gone on for another hour and I wouldn't have minded. The ending was a little abrupt, but I don't think that hurt the story at all. I enjoyed Jan and his awkwardness with polite society. Here is a man who is confident in his abilities, but take him out of his element and he's nervous and ruffled. I don't think he would have cared what anyone else thought about him if not for the fact that he was interested in Shannon.
This and Moon Viewing are why I like Giants, and 2 of the top 5 stories PC has run.
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Forgot to mention, mine cut off at the end, right in the middle of the closing quote.
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Not much to add here. Fascinating story, interesting, multi-dimensional characters and cultural treatments, and an overall excellent treatment of a rarely-used setting.
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I really liked this story. It flowed well, and the voice work was really great! The setting was interesting and detailed enough. If I were going to have to say there was a 'downside' the story was that the description of the fighting scenes got pretty bloody. But, gee, let's see...it was a BATTLE!
Well done.
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I was a fan of Jan's super-intricate Medieval-style cursing. "By Prince Williams' beard!" hee hee.
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While it was nice to have a story in which something happened for once it didn't really keep my attention. I listened to it after lunch and fell asleep for the second third of the story and, on waking up, it didn't really sound like I'd missed anything.
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I have a slight historical quibble about this. I'm pretty darn sure (though I'm not about to listen to the whole thing again to correct my memory on it) that the protagonist at one point referred to a king of the Netherlands, when he was discussing or thinking about the cession of New Netherland to England. The Netherlands didn't have a king until after 1800, well after that happened. Before then, it was ruled by either the Stadtholder or some representative form of government. The entity which finally ceded New Netherland to England was the States-General, a representative form of government.
I know, minor, but it stuck in my head when I listened to the story. One could argue that it's set in a different history, but this was the only divergence I noticed from our world's history.
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I have a slight historical quibble about this. I'm pretty darn sure (though I'm not about to listen to the whole thing again to correct my memory on it) that the protagonist at one point referred to a king of the Netherlands, when he was discussing or thinking about the cession of New Netherland to England. The Netherlands didn't have a king until after 1800, well after that happened. Before then, it was ruled by either the Stadtholder or some representative form of government. The entity which finally ceded New Netherland to England was the States-General, a representative form of government.
You piqued my interest, so I looked this up.
From 1689 to 1702, William III was not only Stadtholder of the Netherlands, but also King William III of England, so the author may have been referring to that.
However, the Netherlands relinquished New Amsterdam (in exchange for Suriname) in 1674, at which time it was renamed New York. At that time, William had only been Stadtholder for about 2 years and wasn't yet king.
However, he would eventually become king. Someone referring to him once he did - even referring to an event that occurred before taking the crown - might refer to him with that title. (Though he wasn't the protagonist's king!)
More to the point: since the story explicitly takes place in 1718 - 34 years later! - I'm not sure why Jan (the protagonist) "still could not bring himself to call it York."
He must be quite old (particularly for that period in history). No wonder Woman With Turtle Eyes ran away!
I mentioned this to a friend of mine and he said, "Yeah, but in our world, Native Americans didn't have magic powers, either, so maybe it's not ours." That seems more likely. :)
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So, I listened pretty raptly, wondering about the resolution of things.
And then the story ends, and I'm left hanging. Am I just supposed to assume that things worked out, or that the tattoo had no effect, or something else?
that sort of ending is more suited to a miniature than a regular story, and certainly not a giant.
as opposed to Moon Viewing, where it wrapped everything up, didn't leave me wondering, and was quite satisfying.
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These are all good questions.
Jan doesn't call it "York" because there is still a bit of rivalry between the English and Dutch. I wanted to capture the feel of an early America characterized by many different and pronounced ethnicities. I just love that about early America. It was so different from what we have today. Besides, 34 years is not so long. How many years did it take for "Yankeee" to disappear from general usage in the South? I imagined a Dutchman who is not on the forefront of change with a lot of pride. My main purpose was to hint at the continuing frictions between Dutch, English, French, Abenaki, Mohawk, etc.
Jan calls him "King" because it's a higher and more recent title. The usage would be the same if Colin Powell were to become president. Very few would refer to him after that as "General Powell." Of course, there are times when "General Powell" would be appropriate. No, he wasn't ever Jan's king, but he was king over the English. And that was enough. :)
As for the ending. Know that the original manuscript ran for one more page than what you have here. I've posted below. It does make the resolution more clear. However, the editor for the first publication thought it was redundant. I think it's a matter of taste. I go back and forth between the two myself.
----CURRENT ENDING-----
"I believe that our Lord rains his gifts on the heathen as well as the just." She reached for the patch again.
This time he let her move it aside.
----PART THAT WAS CUT-----
"See," she said. "No harm done." Then she touched it. "It's fading."
He looked down at her. Deep inside he could feel this was an opportunity that would not come again. "I've got a fine green dress in my log house," he said. "I think it might suit you."
"I've never had a man offer me a dress. I don't know that anyone but a husband should offer such things."
"You're probably right about that." Jan didn't know how to say what he wanted to, but he knew he must say something. "Would you like the dress? You can try it on for a while and see if it's comfortable."
She looked him in the eyes. "I'm not a house keeper," she said. "I don't own even one serving set."
"I eat out of a wooden bowl," he said.
Then he took her hand in his good one. What did he have to lose? He raised it to his mouth and gently kissed it. "I'm not a polished suitor," he said.
She smiled, and the warmth in her face filled him with light.
"As long as I can keep my corn stick around," she said, "I think you'll do."
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Thanks for popping in!
I can see going either way with the ending.
I was one of the gushers, so I'll stop here.
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But we loves gushings, Precious.
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Jan calls him "King" because it's a higher and more recent title. The usage would be the same if Colin Powell were to become president. Very few would refer to him after that as "General Powell." Of course, there are times when "General Powell" would be appropriate. No, he wasn't ever Jan's king, but he was king over the English. And that was enough. :)
Ha! I nailed it. :)
(One might quibble that it feels like trying to have it both ways: friction with the English to the point that Jan can't call New York by that name, yet refers to their common sovereign by his English title of King rather than the title he held in Jan's native land. On the other hand, it would just be a quibble. Plus, since when are people all that logical?)
As for the ending. Know that the original manuscript ran for one more page than what you have here. I've posted below. It does make the resolution more clear. However, the editor for the first publication thought it was redundant. I think it's a matter of taste. I go back and forth between the two myself.
I completely disagree with that editor. There's a big difference between 'redundant' and 'explicit'. If nothing else, it brings back the green dress, the non-reappearance ??? of which always bothered me. I felt it had to have some purpose and here I find it does (or did).
I also really like that last reference to the corn stick, which again brings the reader's mind back to the beginning (and hints at the almost-confrontation with O'Day).
Of course, it may well have been those things that he felt were redundant.
As you say, a matter of taste. I can see the editor's point, to a degree, but if I'd been in that editor's place (assuming I felt that way about the ending, which I don't), I wouldn't have had you just cut the ending; I'd have encouraged you to rework it a bit, possibly tweaking other parts of the story, as the excised part really does hearken back to the opening (and possibly, if one were to look deeper, to other points in the tale). Its absence leaves those connections hanging, like strands of a ripped spider web, though I only dimly sensed that before now.
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I agree, the return to the green dress and corn stick makes it feel whole to me as well. Perhaps some time in the future there will be a collection of JB shorts. Who knows, maybe then that lost little page will finally get its day in the sun.
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Yes, original ending is definitely better.
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But we loves gushings, Precious.
And a sense of frivolity!
I would read more stories in this setting. Please let us know if you write more in this world!
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Zorag, will do. :)
In the meantime, I do have another fantasy with a different but strong historical setting. It was on the Locus recommended reading list for 2008 and will be included in this summer's Year's Best Fantasy 9.
You can read it here (http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow.com/cgi-bin/mag.cgi?do=issue&vol=i8&article=_001)
Perhaps it will hit the spot as well.
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The story of John's is a good one. I didn't end up taking it for PodCastle, but interested readers should definitely take a look.
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Zorag, will do. :)
In the meantime, I do have another fantasy with a different but strong historical setting. It was on the Locus recommended reading list for 2008 and will be included in this summer's Year's Best Fantasy 9.
You can read it here (http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow.com/cgi-bin/mag.cgi?do=issue&vol=i8&article=_001)
Perhaps it will hit the spot as well.
I'm going to wait and pick up a copy of Year's Best Fantasy 9. ;D
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I liked this story very, very much. I was puzzled at how a nice piece of historical fiction wandered into a fantasy podcast, but after awhile, I quit wondering and just enjoyed it. I may keep this one. :)
GAM
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I didn't really get into this one. I don't think it was any fault in the story itself, but I am just not that interested in historical fiction, and after 15 minutes there was no indication that it was anything but that. I'm also rarely a fan of very long stories, another matter of personal tastes.
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Just wanted to say that this was one of my Podcastle favorites. I've been on a native american history run lately, watching PBS shows and the History Channel. There's so much that gets missed by all those history textbooks. For many of us in the U.S., "American History" starts at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, and most of what happens before and around that time is presented in the form of a national creation myth (e.g. Mayflower Pilgrims, Paul Revere's Midnight Ride, etc). It's very cool that this story brings to life the "behind the scenes" characters and stories.