Escape Artists
PodCastle => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Heradel on July 14, 2010, 03:04:37 PM
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PodCastle 113: Väinämöinen and the Singing Fish (http://podcastle.org/2010/07/14/podcastle-113-vainamoinen-and-the-singing-fish/)
by Marissa K. Lingen (http://marissalingen.com/)
Read by Marie Brennan (http://www.swantower.com/)
Originally published in Abyss & Apex (http://www.abyssandapex.com/index.html)
Whenever a foreigner came to the district, all of the neighbors would tell him how lucky he was to be in the home of the legendary
Joukahainen, charmer for the ages. But the foreigners would squint and say, “Joukahainen? Never heard of him. Is he as good as
Väinämöinen?” And Joukahainen would seethe.
Then he would do all of his best charms. The birds would sing an invocation to the spirits of the forest in such piercing beauty that
any man would weep to hear it, and the fire would glow white and blue and paint pictures of splendor, and the flowers would all
spontaneously bloom, even if it was in the middle of the long night and snow covered them all.
And then the foreigners would clap Joukahainen on the shoulder and say, “Keep at it, lad, and someday you’ll be as great as Väinämöinen!” Or, “When Väinämöinen’s not around, by the gods, you’ll do!” They meant to be kindly, but every time he heard the name Väinämöinen, Joukahainen’s blood boiled.
Rated PG: Contains Charmers, and Charming Singing Fish (Naturally)
Read the text here (http://www.abyssandapex.com/200807-fish.html)
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Unfortunately, there was error within the audio file of this story. We’re working to correct this, and will bring it to you as soon as possible. For the time being, I've removed the audio file until it can be replaced. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your patience.
Dave
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As sound editor, I also want to extend my sincere apologies.
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Unfortunately, there was error within the audio file of this story. We’re working to correct this, and will bring it to you as soon as possible. For the time being, I've removed the audio file until it can be replaced. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your patience.
Dave
I appreciate you finding and fixing the problem!
I was actually just going to comment that--wow, I'm glad I don't have to figure out how to pronounce that title!
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Unfortunately, there was error within the audio file of this story. We’re working to correct this, and will bring it to you as soon as possible. For the time being, I've removed the audio file until it can be replaced. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your patience.
Dave
The audio issue has been corrected - many thanks to Peter for taking care of it so quickly. You can re-download it now. Hope you enjoy the story!
--Dave
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I was actually just going to comment that--wow, I'm glad I don't have to figure out how to pronounce that title!
Yeah, we don't even share that information with our hosts - as Hobson will be happy to tell you ;)
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I was actually just going to comment that--wow, I'm glad I don't have to figure out how to pronounce that title!
I made the mistake of telling the Podcastle editors what languages I'd studied. Me and my whopping two weeks of Finnish suddenly had to put my money where my mouth was . . . .
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Schlip! Schlap! Schlip-a-schlap-away.
Schlip! Schlap! Schlap away all day.
Schlip! Schlap! You simply can't go wrong,
With traditional fisch-schlapping song!
Sorry, couldn't help it. :)
Anyhoo, this story was pretty good but far from my favorite. It might be that traditional tales using characters of myth just don't excite me that much--I'd rather hear something new, but that's just personal taste. Within the setting, the story was good, and I liked the nonchalant way charm-singing was used as though it's a fact of everyday life (which for them it was).
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And a really great reading from Marie Brennan! It's difficult to fit non-English words into an English narrative without them sounding out of place but it sounded natural all the way through.
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I liked the this one, the seeming change in mane character confused me for a minuet but I loved Onyo's personality.
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I found this story somewhat enjoyable but, in the end, forgettable. If L. had tricked V. by trying to get him to believe there's a singing fish charm, now THAT would've been cool. But instead the sister just happens to be a pretty good sorceress herself and turns herself into a singing fish (which then ends up killing the fishing industry for anyone living in the vicinity of that lake). Not one of my favorites.
The reading was fine. I downloaded it on day one and didn't notice any audio problems.
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The reading was fine. I downloaded it on day one and didn't notice any audio problems.
The reading wasn't an issue. Ann Leckie's canned "legals" tag breaking in at the middle of the story at twice the volume of the reader, making it impossible to hear the reader for about half a minute, was.
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The reading was fine. I downloaded it on day one and didn't notice any audio problems.
The reading wasn't an issue. Ann Leckie's canned "legals" tag breaking in at the middle of the story at twice the volume of the reader, making it impossible to hear the reader for about half a minute, was.
Well, either it was fixed before iTunes grabbed it for me, or I just missed it entirely... whichever. Was it on all audio channels?
On another note -- mods, split if you wish -- does the canned legalese seem to completely break the flow to anyone else? Especially given that Dave comes back AFTERWARD to drop a quote-bomb? Is it perhaps time for Dave (or whoever's guest-hosting) to do the legalese "live"?
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Well, either it was fixed before iTunes grabbed it for me, or I just missed it entirely... whichever. Was it on all audio channels?
On another note -- mods, split if you wish -- does the canned legalese seem to completely break the flow to anyone else? Especially given that Dave comes back AFTERWARD to drop a quote-bomb? Is it perhaps time for Dave (or whoever's guest-hosting) to do the legalese "live"?
I for one don't mind PC using Ann's canned speech... except when it appears where it isn't supposed to. Yes, it was in both channels, and like I said, at twice the amplitude of the story.
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The Finnish mythic structure is a fun one; it lacks the usual magic/arms split of other western legends, and suggests that basically all of reality is pliant to those who can sing well, which is a charming idea. It's basically the least western of the western mythos.
This story was sweet because it worked within that structure, but didn't really do much except present this sort of story in a non-archaic structure. Not bad, not brilliant, but mainly it just reminded me that it's been too long since I re-read the Kalevala. (Though, I end up thinking in quadrameter for about a week afterward.)
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Well, either it was fixed before iTunes grabbed it for me, or I just missed it entirely... whichever. Was it on all audio channels?
On another note -- mods, split if you wish -- does the canned legalese seem to completely break the flow to anyone else? Especially given that Dave comes back AFTERWARD to drop a quote-bomb? Is it perhaps time for Dave (or whoever's guest-hosting) to do the legalese "live"?
I understand the need for the legalese, but after hearing it 113 times, I kind of prefer it to not be canned, to just be part of the outro and not in the same wording every week. It's not a problem or anything, but since the subject came up.
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but mainly it just reminded me that it's been too long since I re-read the Kalevala.
Our work here is done. :)
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I really enjoyed this one, right down to the melancholy ending. I loved the mythic feel (not surprising I suppose) and the very flawed protagonists. You can run more like this anytime!
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turns herself into a singing fish (which then ends up killing the fishing industry for anyone living in the vicinity of that lake).
Not anyone:
But in all the rest of their living days, neither Joukahainen nor Väinämöinen ever caught a fish again. Whether they used nets or hooks or gleaming spears, the fish always managed to slip through their grasp.
I didn't mind that the ending was melancholy - some stories are. But I did find it ... unsatisfying, somehow. For instance, after that duel and its outcome, Joukahainen was suddenly able to fling Väinämöinen to the door of the northern witch so that he never came back? Where did that come from?
Also, I would have liked to see some kind of growth in at least one of the characters. Even though their circumstances changed (for some of them), none of them seemed to learn anything or change in any meaningful way:
- Aino is still stubborn and willful (not that I blame her especially, but as many trickster stories have shown, she - and her sister - might have done better if she'd appeared to capitulate and then bided her time to get her own back),
- Joukahainen is self-centred and unwilling to look to himself as the source of his own (and and many of his family's) problems,
- Väinämöinen (I infer, from the spells above the lake) is still self-centred and vain (though in some fairness, he was promised a wife, however much I may disapprove of using a sister as a barter item, even for one's life),
- Noora is given super powers (sort of) but there's no indication that she's any different for the experience. (It would be weird if she - or the parents - were the ones to experience growth or change, though, since they're only ancillary characters).
On the up side, there were a few good chuckles from some of the lines, like Aino rolling her eyes as a fish. Aside from the unsatisfying ending, I did quite enjoy this story.
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I didn't mind that the ending was melancholy - some stories are. But I did find it ... unsatisfying, somehow. For instance, after that duel and its outcome, Joukahainen was suddenly able to fling Väinämöinen to the door of the northern witch so that he never came back? Where did that come from?
He had prep time for that one, he worked on that charm for a long time. And we don't know what happened at the northern witch -- Joukahainen might have just sent Väinämöinen there and the witch did the rest.
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I grew up on the Time Life's Enchanted World series and have fond memories of the original story. This interpretation more than did it justice, and was a great listen.
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Fun story. I like a good folktale now and again.
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It was a good retelling; I think the weaknesses of plot and resolution that have been bothering people are an artifact of the source material. Old epic sagas do tend to wander off in weird directions, what with everyone always putting their own spin on things and different versions getting recombined in bizarre and unexpected ways. The ending definitely fit with the epic saga vibe, and I think it just felt weird to us because the story was retold in a pleasantly colloquial voice, and modern stories tend to be much more about having a plot that ties up neatly at the end and is properly foreshadowed and so on.
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It was a good retelling; I think the weaknesses of plot and resolution that have been bothering people are an artifact of the source material.
I think that's probably why I don't like myth retellings that often.
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It was a good retelling; I think the weaknesses of plot and resolution that have been bothering people are an artifact of the source material.
I think that's probably why I don't like myth retellings that often.
That's just what I like about myth-like stories, the fact that you can't always tell where they'll end up
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It was a good retelling; I think the weaknesses of plot and resolution that have been bothering people are an artifact of the source material.
I think that's probably why I don't like myth retellings that often.
That's just what I like about myth-like stories, the fact that you can't always tell where they'll end up
How so? If it's a retelling of a myth then doesn't that mean that it's already well defined where it'll end up?
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That's just what I like about myth-like stories, the fact that you can't always tell where they'll end up
How so? If it's a retelling of a myth then doesn't that mean that it's already well defined where it'll end up?
I think he meant that myth retellings don't necessarily obey modern fiction conventions, and are likely to end up somewhere quite different from where they start. Of course, it's only unpredictable if you don't know the source material.
I didn't know the source material in this case (though I am proud that at least I've heard of it), and I rather enjoyed listening to this story, but I have to say, a few days later, that the only part of this episode that really stuck with me was the great intro by M. K. Hobson.
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That's just what I like about myth-like stories, the fact that you can't always tell where they'll end up
How so? If it's a retelling of a myth then doesn't that mean that it's already well defined where it'll end up?
Note the word(s), "myth-like" -- stories which feel like a myth. Anyways, I'd never heard this one before.
I did have a few stories in mind but as usual I was either (a) too lazy to go find their names and explain why I like them or (b) too afraid to air my views before the forum's professional pundits, who are a universally scary lot.
So... umm... the story I had in mind was... nope, can't remember. I know it was a long sort of mythic fantasy story but I can't remember the author. I thought it was Gene Wolfe but looking at his titles, I don't think so.
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I rather liked this one, as I'd never heard the source material before. While it did have problems with a lack of character growth and a rather sad ending, old myths are generally like that. This isn't really a bad thing, as it bucks the 'standard' story format these days, of the characters themselves changing and things ending up turning out well in the end.
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A nice retelling of a familiar story.
The ending was a bit different from original version - there was no "pow-wow" with fishes, and there were no that kind of curse.
And this was not the last time Väinämöinen and Joukahainen met...
Pronunciation wasn't too bad. ;D
The main thing was the emphasis. In Finnish the emphasis is always on the first syllable, and JouKAhainen and VäinäMÖinen sounded a bit weird.
Out at sea a goodly distance,
Stood a rock of rainbow colors,
Glittering in silver sunlight.
Toward it springs the hapless maiden,
Thither swims the lovely Aino,
Up the standing-stone has clambered,
Wishing there to rest a moment,
Rest upon the rock of beauty;
When upon a sudden swaying
To and fro among the billows,
With a crash and roar of waters
Falls the stone of many colors,
Falls upon the very bottom
Of the deep and boundless blue-sea.
With the stone of rainbow colors,
Falls the weeping maiden, Aino,
Clinging to its craggy edges,
Sinking far below the surface,
To the bottom of the blue-sea.
Thus the weeping maiden vanished.
Thus poor Aino sank and perished,
Singing as the stone descended,
Chanting thus as she departed:
Once to swim I sought the sea-side,
There to sport among the billows;
With the stone or many colors
Sank poor Aino to the bottom
Of the deep and boundless blue-sea,
Like a pretty son-bird. perished.
Never come a-fishing, father,
To the borders of these waters,
Never during all thy life-time,
As thou lovest daughter Aino.
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Thanks for the correction. I did fall into a bit of a sing-song pattern on those names, didn't I? Sorry about that; my very brief Finnish education was a very long time ago.
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I haven't had much exposure to Finnish folklore (the closest Ive come is spending a happy summer reading Icelandic sagas), so Väinämöinen was a new treat for me. I like to think that it reminded my sons that there are a world of interesting tales out there that are worth seeking out.
Besides, Väinämöinen *is* fun to say!
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I enjoyed it. It was a good story, but not that great.
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I ran across this in a piece on folktales about music, in Uncle John's Bathroom Reader Plunges Into Music, and thought people who enjoyed the podcasted story might enjoy this one, too. (The compact, informative style is typical of the Bathroom Reader series.)
Background: Väinämöinen was the Finnish god of songs, chants, and poetry. Called the "Eternal Sage," he was a wise old wizard who used music, cunning and guile to thwart his foes. His tales were chronicled in an epic poem called the Kalevala.
Story: The Kalevala tells a famous tale of the evil mistress Louhi, who stole the Sampo, a magical talisman that ensured unlimited wealth for its owner. Louhi's greed brought misery and poverty to the people, so Väinämöinen and his followers sailed across the sea to stop her.
Louhi threw a giant fish in front of their boat. But Väinämöinen killed it and used its bones to create the kantele, a kind of 5-stringed zither.
Väinämöinen played the strange instrument and cast a spell over all the animals and people in the world. After Väinämöinen finished playing, the men guarding the Sampo were lost in blissful sleep, allowing him to walk in and retrieve it.
The Sampo was later destroyed in a fierce sea battle, as was the kantele, but Väinämöinen built a second kantele out of birchwood and the hair of a willing maiden.
In the end, Louhi was defeated and the world was at peace. In the final verse of the Kalevale, Väinämöinen departed, leaving behind the kantele as his gift to the world, vowing to return one day ... if he is needed.
Today, the kantele is the national instrument of Finland.
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If the story made you interested about Kalevala, here's a video by performance artist Scott Sandwich, where he presents the *entire* Kalevala in an 8 minute poem. Very entertaining, I think:
https://vimeo.com/36009127 (https://vimeo.com/36009127)