Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on October 28, 2010, 06:58:05 PM

Title: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: eytanz on October 28, 2010, 06:58:05 PM
EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals (http://escapepod.org/2010/10/28/ep264-st-darwins-spirituals/)

By D. K. Thompson (http://krylyr.livejournal.com/)
Read by Mur Lafferty (http://www.escapepod.org/)

---

The ghosts wanted a threesome – the two of them in Lucy’s body. It wasn’t an unheard of proposition, or so Lucy had been told. Prostitutes considered psychic whoring one of the safest tricks on the streets. All the pleasures of intimacy without the messy clean-up.

Ghosts had a nasty reputation for vanishing the moment after, though, no matter the talisman around your neck or the potion drunk before sunset, and so payments were usually collected up front. Not that Lucy was worried about the money. Her husband was the only thing that concerned her.

She adjusted her brass and leather goggles, peering through the ethereal tinted lenses to examine the ghosts.

They looked like the average apparitions. Both female. One spiraled around Lucy, long and curly hair obscuring her face. Large black blotches covered her body, causing her skin to peel off in patches. The other hovered several feet above the cobblestones in front of Lucy. She had a noose around her throat and her neck was bent so her head hung to the left side. She crossed her arms and took several breaths. Or whatever passed for breaths in the afterlife.

How long had it been since they’d felt someone’s touch? Lucy wondered. She remembered something her husband had told her long ago, before the murders, before he’d disappeared. “Spirits linger in this world longing to be a part of it, to reconnect, to have some kind of physical, sensual experience,” Thomas had said. “Only a host can provide them that.”

Ghosts aren’t the only creatures haunted by the memory of a touch, my love, Lucy thought. And yet, despite being a devout spiritualist, she shuddered at the idea of the cadaverous spirits making love inside her. She’d never had a ghostgasm before, much less been paid for one. The ghosts looked sincere in their desire, not like dangerous murderers. Certainly not monsters. Still, lonely as she was, a ghostgasm wouldn’t help her find Thomas.


Rated R For paranormal sexual situations.

Show Notes:



(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP264__Saint_Darwins_Spirituals.mp3)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on October 28, 2010, 07:04:56 PM
Is this the same story that ran on Variant Frequencies?

If so, I'll still listen... at least this one won't have Dani Cutler's heinous attempt to affect a British accent.


[edit]
...wait, why is this on Escape Pod, not Podcastle? Aside from DKT being the main host of PC, I mean?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Swamp on October 28, 2010, 07:47:22 PM
...wait, why is this on Escape Pod, not Podcastle? Aside from DKT being the main host of PC, I mean?

Wasn't Darwin a champion of science?  So why not science fiction?  Turns out there was more to the story than he first imagined.  Now, you must follow the path of one with more wisdom--one who has helped us see the source of both our biological and spiritual natures.  I refer to the one and only St. Darwin.  Put on your goggles, people, and prepare to see the truth.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: DKT on October 28, 2010, 08:46:08 PM
Is this the same story that ran on Variant Frequencies?

It is the same story, although it's a slightly different version that appeared in the Triangulation: Dark Glass anthology (http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/triangulation-dark-glass/5127163) (thanks for giving me an excuse to link to that ;))!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Boggled Coriander on October 28, 2010, 11:05:10 PM
Very cool!  I have to admit I couldn't quite get through this one when it was on VF.  It wasn't any one reader's fault; something about the production just caused it to not mesh with my head.  I'm excited to have another chance to listen!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on October 29, 2010, 02:25:48 PM
...wait, why is this on Escape Pod, not Podcastle? Aside from DKT being the main host of PC, I mean?

Wasn't Darwin a champion of science?  So why not science fiction? 


Because ghosts have nothing to do with science. They belong in the fantasy or horror genre.


It is the same story, although it's a slightly different version that appeared in the Triangulation: Dark Glass anthology (http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/triangulation-dark-glass/5127163) (thanks for giving me an excuse to link to that ;))!
Any time, Dave  :)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Void Munashii on October 29, 2010, 03:15:16 PM
Arguments about whether this was horror, sci-fi, or fantasy aside, I reallly enjoyed this story. I liked the world that it built, and the story that was told in it. I would love to see more stories set in this world, although not necessarily about Lucy.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Swamp on October 29, 2010, 03:36:20 PM
You're in luck on both counts.  Check out "Heart of Clay" (http://www.variantfrequencies.com/2010/02/10/heart-of-clay-a-saint-darwins-spiritual/).  Happy Halloween!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on October 29, 2010, 11:29:31 PM
Listened today. A good story... but science fiction it ain't, and Norm's intro indicates y'all damn well knew it. If this were still the pre-Podcastle days, I would understand running it here. But since there's a better-suited EA podcast for this story... why?  ???
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Swamp on October 29, 2010, 11:48:47 PM
A good story... but science fiction it ain't, and Norm's intro indicates y'all damn well knew it.

Even Mur's show notes indicated it was a stretch for sci-fi.  I don't think they were trying to hide it.  (And my previous comment was tongue in cheek, btw.  I really wasn't really trying to pass it off as scifi  :P.)

If this were still the pre-Podcastle days, I would understand running it here. But since there's a better-suited EA podcast for this story... why?  ???

I think Mur may have answered that as well.  It's Halloween, so they went for something more supernatural.  My guess is she liked it so she wanted to read it.  I agree that last year's Halloween episode, "Infestation" by Garth Nix, was an excellent example of how to achieve both scifi and Halloween.

I also agree that this is a good story.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Boggled Coriander on October 30, 2010, 02:17:10 AM
Ah, but this story was science fiction, see?  It's science fiction set in a universe where the rules of science are different, that's all!

Anyway, my only problem is, with a story that contains the confluence of the character names Lucy and Ethel, how come Norm thought of "The Golden Girls" first?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Heradel on October 30, 2010, 02:45:30 AM
Ah, but this story was science fiction, see?  It's science fiction set in a universe where the rules of science are different, that's all!

This.

We're a genre podcast, but we're not going to wear it like a straightjacket. We all have to let our hair down sometime.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: eytanz on October 30, 2010, 05:48:31 PM
I very much enjoyed this story. I liked the world building, and the characters came through very clearly.

I was also confused by the Golden Girls reference; "Lucy & Ethel" certainly trumps "Rose" as a reference in my head.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: spoonsinger on October 30, 2010, 10:17:47 PM
Reminds me, I really should read "Immortality, Inc" again sometime.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on October 31, 2010, 12:00:32 AM
Anyway, my only problem is, with a story that contains the confluence of the character names Lucy and Ethel, how come Norm thought of "The Golden Girls" first?

Maybe Norm spends every round looking at Bea Arthur nudes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MftegIsq_nY)  :P
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Dem on October 31, 2010, 02:15:32 PM
SF or not SF, it fitted the moment and, if it had been on PC instead of here, I would have missed it. Curiously, I found my enjoyment enhanced by being able to read-along-a-mur. I had imagined this might be a conflicting experience but picked up the text today due to the danger of nodding off after a burst of work and a late lunch. Now I'm not sure if hearing or reading alone would have enhanced or diminished that experience. I suspect my overall impression might have been the same but with quite different niggles as some of the narrative sounded good but looked naff while other parts worked better as text than audio. There's a particular problem for those of us writing in 'Brit' because that's the voice in our heads and some of what is written doesn't work well with a different emphasis (rhythm, cadence and all that). Somebody earlier picked up on that, commenting on a version of this story read by someone trying to anglicise it (re-corrects spellcheck that wants to spell that with a 'z' - that's 'zed'!) and I know that I would have found that grating too. The Scots probably have it hardest though, I've heard one or two Scottish authors here and I know that what I'm hearing isn't quite what they were saying sometimes. Going the other way, we're inundated with Americanisms, videos and films to the point that we're incapable now of singing in English so we're probably quite good at sub-vocal reading in the accent of origin, at least insofar as we can find the right stereotype!  ;D
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Loz on October 31, 2010, 04:38:59 PM
Don't ya wish your girlfriend was hot like Bea?

Despite a surfeit of horror or horror-tinged stories round Stately Escape Artist Mansion recently this was certainly one of the better offerings of recent times and I'm glad to see there's another story in this universe already.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Dem on October 31, 2010, 04:58:31 PM
Whoa - just became a mattress! ;D
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Unblinking on November 01, 2010, 06:01:50 PM
I didn't quite get the connection of the ghosts with Darwin.  Maybe I'm missing some part of his studies, but the existence of ghosts seems to not have anything to do with evolution--in fact, it sort of contradicts it, in that we only see human ghosts, implying that humans are special in their afterlife existence--unless that's a specific species trait that gives us a survival advantage, I don't get why humans would be the only one to have ghosts.

The story was reasonably good.  The POV character was interesting, especially when it came to light that she was trying so hard to avenge a husband that spent all of his time sleeping around anyway, and that she's trying to not think about that part too much, instead idealizing him in retrospect.  There wasn't really anything about the writing that I disliked, I just don't think I tend to like "ghosts as a mundane part of existence" so much as the focal fantasy element.  The golems were much more interesting to me.

I didn't really get how the monster got killed though, did the ghosts diving into it somehow discombobulate it?  Or did the golems kill it?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Loz on November 01, 2010, 08:51:58 PM
I didn't quite get the connection of the ghosts with Darwin.  Maybe I'm missing some part of his studies, but the existence of ghosts seems to not have anything to do with evolution--in fact, it sort of contradicts it, in that we only see human ghosts, implying that humans are special in their afterlife existence--unless that's a specific species trait that gives us a survival advantage, I don't get why humans would be the only one to have ghosts.

I think that was to emphasise the difference between their reality and ours, they have a reality in which ghosts exist, unlike ours (SPOILER ALERT! The boy doesn't see dead people, he's just really emotionally disturbed and will grow up to think his name is Tyler Durden) and it just so happens that Darwin figured that out too. Perhaps the life you lead determines how strong and together a ghost you are?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: blueeyeddevil on November 02, 2010, 11:40:51 AM
It's my second time looking at the St. Darwin's universe (I listened to "Heart of Clay" on Variant Frequencies) and I'm somewhat nonplussed by the world. For me, the whole thing comes off as a sort of not-humourous Ankh-Morpork (it's the Golem Constables). I'm particularly put off by the re-casting of Darwin and his work. I know, nothing is sacred in fiction, but I've been arguing lately with people about ID and the massive debt modern biology and medical science owe TOoS.
Seeing a world where TOoS is only seen as a footnote 'essay' chills me down to the bone. I admit, if we lived in times where people weren't actively trying to undo Darwin's (and all the other biologists', before, contemporary to, and after him) work, I'd be less sensitive.

As for the this is/is not scifi (I don't think it is, but I don't feel like fighting), isn't it about time Escape Artists broke down and had a Steampunk/Alt history podcast? It would clear up all the confusion. (I'm joking, I know you're busy enough)

Possible titles: Steampod, Podboiler (hmm, that one sounds like a spy-thriller podcast, so Boilerpod instead), Every-Frickin'-Story-Has-To-Have-Brass-Goggles-In-It-Pod (srsly, that seems to be the only prereq for being "Steampunk"), Dirigipod (or maybe Podigible).
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Talia on November 02, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
Enjoyed the story, but was skeeved out by the ghostgasms. :) (not a criticism, just saying the concept made me go 'ewwww..').

Anyone else envision the little slime monster from 'Something Wicked This Way Plumbs' as a junior version of this bad boy?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 02, 2010, 01:36:52 PM
It's my second time looking at the St. Darwin's universe (I listened to "Heart of Clay" on Variant Frequencies) and I'm somewhat nonplussed by the world. For me, the whole thing comes off as a sort of not-humourous Ankh-Morpork (it's the Golem Constables). I'm particularly put off by the re-casting of Darwin and his work. I know, nothing is sacred in fiction, but I've been arguing lately with people about ID and the massive debt modern biology and medical science owe TOoS.

Seeing a world where TOoS is only seen as a footnote 'essay' chills me down to the bone. I admit, if we lived in times where people weren't actively trying to undo Darwin's (and all the other biologists', before, contemporary to, and after him) work, I'd be less sensitive.

I'm having a hard time putting this into words without just sticking my internet tongue out at you and going "thbthbthbt!" This probably has something to do with the fact that it's six in the morning and I went to bed last night at midnight. Why's that, you might ask? Why would any reasonable adult human being willingly get just under six hours of sleep?

Because in addition to doing NaNoWriMo this year, I'm a middle school biology teacher.

So, I understand the debt that modern science owes Darwin. I spend weeks struggling to communicate the concept of evolution to kids with very little background in science (thanks, standardized testing! >:() and some of whose parents do believe in Creationism and its kin. And I have no problem with a story that pokes fun at Darwin and his beliefs.

Seriously, blueeyeddevil. Darwin was a Christian. The dude would be rolling over in his grave to hear you treating his work like a sacred writ that must be treated with gravitas wherever it goes. Speaking for him - Darwin's theories are just that, theories. This doesn't mean (as IDers are wont to believe) that it has no weight. It does mean that it isn't written in stone, and frankly, it might be wrong. Sure, all of modern Biology stops making sense without evolution... but you know, all of modern physics doesn't make a lot of  sense in light of some stuff the quark-botherers have discovered.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make (other than "thbthbthbt!") is this: when you take some written thing and give it a whole lot of weight, demand that it be treated with respect wherever it is mentioned, you know what I call that? Religion. So, I understand that you're a good Evolutionist and you love Darwin with all your heart, that you hope and pray that your genes will be judged fit enough to continue past your death... but this is a secular podcast. Some of us are just here for the stories ;).

*Ahem* That wasn't too thbthbthbt, was it?

The reason I've got my natural selection in a bunch over your comments, blueeyeddevil, is that you're taking the story way too seriously. Lighten up, man! It's not like the story was actually arguing against evolution. It was just poking it with a stick and laughing maniacally. Actually, it was poking something else with a stick and not really caring that it missed and hit evolution once in a while. We've got a weird horror fantasy steampunk lark with ghost sex and goggles, set in a bizarre alternate universe where not only is spiritualism real (and ghosts are decidedly profane) but Charles Darwin himself opened the world of the spirits to the world of the living. Evolution is the least of this story's concerns. It's weird! It's fun! It's got the word "ghostgasm" in it.

Seriously, I could say ghostgasm all day. Though, if I did, my students would probably freak out.

Quote
"Mr. Stone, can I go to the bathroom?"

"Ghostgasm."

Ok. Way too early in the morning for me to be commenting on forums.

As for the this is/is not scifi (I don't think it is, but I don't feel like fighting), isn't it about time Escape Artists broke down and had a Steampunk/Alt history podcast? It would clear up all the confusion. (I'm joking, I know you're busy enough)

Possible titles: Steampod, Podboiler (hmm, that one sounds like a spy-thriller podcast, so Boilerpod instead), Every-Frickin'-Story-Has-To-Have-Brass-Goggles-In-It-Pod (srsly, that seems to be the only prereq for being "Steampunk"), Dirigipod (or maybe Podigible).

I propose a new podcast: Badpod. It'll have all the stories I don't like on it. At this point, it would consist mostly of high concept stories that are too artfully worded and don't make any sense, stories with no noticeable sympathetic protagonists, about half of the Pseudopod stories in which the bad guys win (I don't mind them, once in a while, but there are just too many), stories in which I sympathize with a secondary character who then dies a stupid death, and one in three stories not read by Wilson Fowlie (so as to increase the Wilson Fowlie density in the main podcasts - we just need more Wilson Fowlie). What do you think.

*Hoooork Spat!*

Sorry, that was the sound of me extracting my tongue from my cheek.

Anyway, I get really sick of people proposing the need for a new podcast whenever one of the three tries to branch out and mix it up a little. It's inevitable. I could make money betting on it (if there were bookies for the Escape Artists forums). The genre bed is big, blueeyeddevil, so let's all try to share the covers.

Huh. That metaphor didn't really... make any sense. The genre pie is big? The genre... you know, I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. There's lots of stuff out there in genre-land, and I don't see the need to get my DNA all hot and bothered whenever one of the pods does something odd. I enjoy it. It mixes things up a little.

Now that I'm done making an utter fool of myself ("I have not yet begun to fool!") what did I actually think of the story?

Actually, I enjoyed it a great deal. It was a fun, clever, quirky little gem of a story and it brightened my morning. I particularly enjoyed the layered and bizarre world the authors have built, Lucy and her denial, and the concept of ghostgasms. The ghost-eater was particularly fun and evocative as well. I was sad that Lucy wasn't able to save Thomas, though. It wasn't quite "defeat snatched from the jaws of victory" for me, since it was pretty well foreshadowed that Thomas was no longer among the living, but I do love a happy ending so... Anyway, this story was fun and I'd love to hear more in the universe. So there.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Unblinking on November 02, 2010, 01:43:40 PM
I didn't quite get the connection of the ghosts with Darwin.  Maybe I'm missing some part of his studies, but the existence of ghosts seems to not have anything to do with evolution--in fact, it sort of contradicts it, in that we only see human ghosts, implying that humans are special in their afterlife existence--unless that's a specific species trait that gives us a survival advantage, I don't get why humans would be the only one to have ghosts.

I think that was to emphasise the difference between their reality and ours, they have a reality in which ghosts exist, unlike ours (SPOILER ALERT! The boy doesn't see dead people, he's just really emotionally disturbed and will grow up to think his name is Tyler Durden) and it just so happens that Darwin figured that out too. Perhaps the life you lead determines how strong and together a ghost you are?

But why Darwin?  Why not Einstein or Newton or Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr or Teddy Roosevelt or just a name that's not famous in our world?  There's got to be a reason why Darwin in particular was chosen, and it MUST have been very important because his name is mentioned right in the title.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 02, 2010, 02:04:25 PM
I didn't quite get the connection of the ghosts with Darwin.  Maybe I'm missing some part of his studies, but the existence of ghosts seems to not have anything to do with evolution--in fact, it sort of contradicts it, in that we only see human ghosts, implying that humans are special in their afterlife existence--unless that's a specific species trait that gives us a survival advantage, I don't get why humans would be the only one to have ghosts.

I think that was to emphasise the difference between their reality and ours, they have a reality in which ghosts exist, unlike ours (SPOILER ALERT! The boy doesn't see dead people, he's just really emotionally disturbed and will grow up to think his name is Tyler Durden) and it just so happens that Darwin figured that out too. Perhaps the life you lead determines how strong and together a ghost you are?

But why Darwin?  Why not Einstein or Newton or Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr or Teddy Roosevelt or just a name that's not famous in our world?  There's got to be a reason why Darwin in particular was chosen, and it MUST have been very important because his name is mentioned right in the title.

I think it's because Darwin...
a) existed at a time when spiritualism was popular, and the story takes advantage of the culture of spiritualism.
b) is already known for making one controversial discovery, so it was easy to add another controversial discovery (that of ghosts) to his resume.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on November 02, 2010, 03:25:29 PM
Darwin's theories are just that, theories. This doesn't mean (as IDers are wont to believe) that it has no weight. It does mean that it isn't written in stone, and frankly, it might be wrong. Sure, all of modern Biology stops making sense without evolution... but you know, all of modern physics doesn't make a lot of  sense in light of some stuff the quark-botherers have discovered.

Yeah, Darwin's theory of evolution is just a theory. So is electron theory, theory of gravity, theory of relativity, and the germ theory of disease.

"Theory" in science basically means "truth", as far as we can call something in science "true"... what Gould describes as "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." It doesn't mean "a guess as to how it might work"; that would be a hypothesis which is subsequently tested, and if experimentation repeatedly supports it, then we call it a theory.

(Similar to blueeyeddevil, the misunderstanding or misrepresentation of science really gets my fur up.)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 02, 2010, 04:00:11 PM
Darwin's theories are just that, theories. This doesn't mean (as IDers are wont to believe) that it has no weight. It does mean that it isn't written in stone, and frankly, it might be wrong. Sure, all of modern Biology stops making sense without evolution... but you know, all of modern physics doesn't make a lot of  sense in light of some stuff the quark-botherers have discovered.

Yeah, Darwin's theory of evolution is just a theory. So is electron theory, theory of gravity, theory of relativity, and the germ theory of disease.

"Theory" in science basically means "truth", as far as we can call something in science "true"... what Gould describes as "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." It doesn't mean "a guess as to how it might work"; that would be a hypothesis which is subsequently tested, and if experimentation repeatedly supports it, then we call it a theory.

(Similar to blueeyeddevil, the misunderstanding or misrepresentation of science really gets my fur up.)

Jeez. I know that. It's also annoying when people take theories and present them as honest truth. Pop science does this BS all the time. The point I'm making isn't that evolution isn't true, it's that it isn't the end of the world to make fun of Darwin once in a while. I'm saying that just because we deal with Creationist whackjobs doesn't mean that we have to treat Darwin's theories as sacred, never poke fun at them, and never question them.

Because that's not how science works.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Loz on November 02, 2010, 06:37:54 PM
Can I just say that I love Electric Paladin right now?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 02, 2010, 07:04:26 PM
Can I just say that I love Electric Paladin right now?

I just got married, but I'm flattered, really.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Corydon on November 03, 2010, 11:41:06 AM
But why Darwin?  Why not Einstein or Newton or Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr or Teddy Roosevelt or just a name that's not famous in our world?  There's got to be a reason why Darwin in particular was chosen, and it MUST have been very important because his name is mentioned right in the title.

I agree with this, and it felt like a missed opportunity- it's hard to see anything particularly Darwinian in the story.  It's too bad, because a story that blended ghosts and Darwinian evolution would be so cool.  I kept looking for something to tie everything together-- maybe that the monster was an example of supernatural selection?-- but it never happened.  Just a ghost story.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Loz on November 03, 2010, 05:16:25 PM
Can I just say that I love Electric Paladin right now?

I just got married, but I'm flattered, really.

 :'(
 ;)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: DKT on November 03, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
Hey all - it's a bit funny to be commenting on my own story here, but I wanted to drop in and say thanks to everyone for listening. And I really do mean everyone. It's always nice to hear people liked something you wrote, but I do appreciate people who didn't like it chiming in. Really - just - thanks for listening, and taking the time to talk about my story :)

Regarding "Why Darwin?" - Electric Paladin explained some of it, but I'll add a little more. Going beyond physical science to spiritual science seemed to me like a natural (er, maybe supernatural?) progression of Darwin's theories to me, and a fun one to play with. When I started gearing up to write a steampunk story, I knew I wanted it to have supernatural/spiritualistic elements, and I really liked the idea of Darwin writing a follow-up to Origin of the Species that tried to scientifically discuss and theorize what happens after life ends, as well as categorizing other supernatural oddities. (I realize a lot of that's implied. I've always meant to write a longer story about Darwin in particular - not to mention more stories in this world in general.)

And when I figured out that he could give brass and leather goggles a purpose for being in steampunk, instead of them just being a cool aesthetic, I had to go all the way. (So to speak.)

Anyway, thanks again for listening! Unless anyone has specific questions for me, I'll probably be less visible in this thread than others, but I appreciate all the discussion, and look forward to reading more of it :)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 03, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
Regarding "Why Darwin?"...

Another think DKT either didn't mention - or didn't know - is that Darwin was actually a fervent anti-spiritualist. He apparently spent some time debunking spiritualism. But what if his scientific exploration of the matter turned up real evidence of spirits? Being a good scientist, he'd have written a paper about them, I'm sure.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: DKT on November 03, 2010, 07:58:01 PM
I did know that, actually  ;D Thanks for mentioning it!

In my mind, that discovery is where the story's reality and our own split.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Dem on November 03, 2010, 08:47:47 PM
More stories in this world, definitely. I hadn't quite made the steampunk connection but now that I have, it adds another layer to my appreciation. I realise I didn't say much about the story itself before - all tied up with the reading/listening experience - but I found it curiously engaging even though I'm not usually that keen on recognisable historical characters turning up in fiction. I'd thought it was going down the Jack the Ripper track (well, maybe it was actually) so to have a different kind of outcome was gratifying. Yes, more please! :)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Zuishness on November 03, 2010, 11:22:41 PM
 I know very little about Steampunk, but it seems like nice fertile ground for some brand new cockney slang.

Just trying to think of something akin to 'ghostgasm', but all I can manage is "Miss Ladycock's ladybird". :(


Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: CryptoMe on November 04, 2010, 02:35:42 AM
I think it's because Darwin...
a) existed at a time when spiritualism was popular, and the story takes advantage of the culture of spiritualism.
b) is already known for making one controversial discovery, so it was easy to add another controversial discovery (that of ghosts) to his resume.

That was pretty much my take on it too. And I loved, loved, loved the statue of St. Darwin holding the two equally important but juxtaposing books, one in each hand. How iconic!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ibabox on November 05, 2010, 01:11:23 AM
Ghost sex now that's a porn genre that I think I can make my millions in.

Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Hysteria on November 07, 2010, 05:49:38 PM
On the whole, this wasn't that bad of a story. I have to admit, I've never been that enthralled with the Steampunk genre, usually because the writer is trying to establish an alternate history or world, and so I'm trying to figure out what the ground rules of this new world are like as the story is going on. Granted, it's not that different than science fiction, but at least for me it can be a little jarring to be dropped into a steampunk world as opposed to a straight sci-fi one. Go figure.

Aside from that, this was a good story. It combines steampunk and horror pretty well, although there are a lot of questions to be answered, stuff that the people in the world take for granted that is new to the reader. Are the golems magical? How are ghosts treated as citizens? One thing I found very interesting is that Darwin is held up as a saint and a paragon of science, yet the world is populated by some very paranormal entities. At least from an early 21th century perspective, where science usually equals skepticism, I thought this was something that could be touched on a little more.

If I wanted to engage in literary snobbery, I could yawn and say "Oh, another Jack the Ripper story." This one, though, was different. I kept waiting to figure out just what this monster was, and the fact that it was such a weird monster was unique in and of itself. Plus, well...I have a certain affection for Jack the Ripper stories. :)
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: rowshack on November 09, 2010, 05:49:02 AM
I see where it wanted to take me but just could not follow. The end made me want to reread of buffy season 8's "Wolves at the Gate".  to quote Dracula
    "My boy... I was never an ordinary vampire. Or did you forget what I used to be? I've killed more men than God's plagues combined. And that was before I started eating people for fun. The fields of Europe used to steam with the blood of my enemies. Trust me... the vampire's the least of your concerns. It's the old man you need to worry about."
   
Man is all the monster we will ever need.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Gamercow on November 09, 2010, 04:22:54 PM
I loved the characters, loved the world, loved the ideas.  That said, it fell apart a bit for me at the end.  Maybe I missed something, but it seemed to get very muddled at the end, with the monster and the plunging and the ghosts and the golems and the *GLAVEN*! [/frink]  :D  I probably just need a re-listen, and will do that soon, and will probably read the text as well.   

re: Darwin, OtooS, fiction, and religion:  Natural selection and evolution has been proven time and again to be true.  That said, EP is right, it could change, in the same way that any other science can change, given new evidence.  We are just interpreting what we see in the universe, and assigning laws to them.  The laws of physics act very weird at the very large and very small scale, and we are learning more about these extremes every day.  Even natural selection is gets a tune up now and then, with scientists discovering different ways that creatures evolve and have evolved. 
This is a fictional story, and as such, can take liberties with anything that is real.  I think blueeyeddevil may have taken the framework of their previous arguments with IDers and brought it into the conversation here, and jumped to a few conclusions. 



To me, the scariest thing about this episode was the idea of Golden Girls porn.  Ew. 

 
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: malaclypse on November 10, 2010, 01:34:09 AM
Hated this story. Too many cliches, too much porn. And why do the lesbians always have to die? "All the lesbians live, Rose! Just this once, all the lesbians live!"

Also, what's with the single-shot cartridge pistol? I mean, was it supposed to be a rolling block, or what? I guess those are kind of steampunk. Webleys are so much cooler, though. Watson had a Webley.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Talia on November 10, 2010, 04:23:55 AM
too much porn.
No such thing!

Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 10, 2010, 04:27:59 AM
Hated this story. Too many cliches, too much porn. And why do the lesbians always have to die? "All the lesbians live, Rose! Just this once, all the lesbians live!"

I think you get a free pass when the lesbians died at some point in the past. I mean, not every character in your story has got to die by the end, but everyone's got to die eventually. Lesbians included. I think ghost lesbians are all right.

And I can see why the one-shot pistols bothered you. If that was too much porn, you clearly have a more... intimate relationship with the Victorian era than I. Say no more, buddy. I won't break protocol.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on November 10, 2010, 05:42:59 PM
too much porn.
No such thing!

Seconded!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: yicheng on November 10, 2010, 09:10:29 PM
I liked the world building here.  There's a lot of interesting tidbits, a world where ghosts are real, golem policemen, spiritual mediums, etc.  offers a lot of intriguing possibilities.  However, I felt that the plot seemed a little unfinished.  The plotline with the dead husband felt like a loose thread that ended up being distracting rather than contributing to the story.  The monster was also never fully explained.  Do ghost-eating monsters just happen along all the time, or is this some sort of new discovery?  And the implication that there are ghostly police officers would seem to imply that there must be ghostly criminals, and perhaps other things: ghostly teachers, ghostly businessmen, ghostly soldiers, ghostly spies, ghostly messengers, ghostly newspaper reporters?

Also, I would have to say ditto to the "too much pr0n" statement.  Not that I didn't appreciate it, but it felt a bit forced and gratuitous.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Scattercat on November 11, 2010, 01:28:22 AM
We Are Ted Tuscadero for Porn.

We march (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILeb1sEHZM)!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ibabox on November 13, 2010, 01:28:00 AM
too much porn.
No such thing!

Seconded!

Can I "third" this ?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: ibabox on November 13, 2010, 03:01:28 AM
too much porn.
No such thing!

Seconded!

Can I "third" this ?
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: stePH on November 13, 2010, 04:30:24 PM
And I can see why the one-shot pistols bothered you. If that was too much porn, you clearly have a more... intimate relationship with the Victorian era than I. Say no more, buddy. I won't break protocol.

[FB]
Stephen Karnas likes this.
[/FB]
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: gateaux on November 18, 2010, 06:42:31 PM
This story was really well done with awesome world building and some interesting and original ideas presented. But it really gave me the creeps! Ghosts using human bodies as vessels for sex? Does that count as necrophilia? Eeugh!
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Dem on November 19, 2010, 01:02:41 PM
Does that count as necrophilia? Eeugh!

Ectoplasmophilia, maybe? Or ectorgasmophilia. Or even ectoplamsa 65" TV for the more contemporary reader.. ;D
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: El Barto on November 25, 2010, 03:34:44 PM
Disappointing.  I don't like ghost stories and for Halloween I was hoping that Escape Pod, which I love, would have a great science fiction story with a spooky theme -- not just running from a different genre.   
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Calculating... on November 26, 2010, 07:17:06 PM
I definitely think this belonged on Podcastle, and I wasn't really a fan of the main character, she just sorta seemed pathetic in the end... I really liked the idea of goggles that let you interact with ghosts, but didn't really satisfy my sci-fi fix for halloween though.
Title: Re: EP264: St. Darwin’s Spirituals
Post by: Loz on November 28, 2010, 08:21:17 AM
Escape Pod has tended to always run horror stories for Halloween, even after Pseudopod launched.