Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on December 27, 2014, 04:21:47 PM

Title: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: eytanz on December 27, 2014, 04:21:47 PM
EP473: Soft Currency (http://escapepod.org/2014/12/24/ep473-soft-currency/)

By Seth Gordon (http://imaginaryfamilyvalues.com/)

Read by Melissa Bugaj (http://www.nightlightstories.net/)

This story has not been previously published

---

When Cassie Levine was nine years old, her family lived in the center of Boston, Lyndon B. Johnson was President, and Cassie learned that her mother was a criminal.

The two of them sat in a parked car on Blue Hill Avenue, outside Ethel Glick’s grocery store. While Cassie ate an ice-cream sandwich, her mother smoked a cigarette. The sandwich, the cigarettes, and three bags of groceries had come from Mrs. Glick’s store. When the ice cream sandwich was half gone, Cassie asked, “Why did you change Dad’s money at Mrs. Glick’s? Why not go to the bank?”

Cassie’s mother had passed Mrs. Glick a twenty-dollar bill; the older woman had tucked the bill under the counter and handed back a stack of coupons; then, her mother had used some of those coupons to pay Mrs. Glick. Each twenty-coupon note showed a picture of Margaret Mitchell, holding a copy of _Gone With the Wind_. Cassie’s little brother called coupons “cootie money,” because only women and girls could use them.

“The exchange rate at the banks is twenty-seven coupons for a dollar,” Cassie’s mother said, “and Mrs. Glick is paying thirty-one.”

“Why don’t the banks pay thirty-one?”

“The government won’t let them.”

“Does the government let Mrs. Glick?”

Cassie’s mother drew on her cigarette and exhaled out the half-open window into the drizzle. Cassie licked vanilla ice cream all around the edge of her sandwich, feeling smug and virtuous and full of sugar. “You’re doing something il-le-gal,” she said, stretching out the last word.

“Don’t tell your father about this.”

Cassie raised her eyebrows. Her mother’s expression was solemn. Through the blur of rain over the windshield, Cassie could see the delicatessen on the opposite corner; the G&G sign was suspended over the sidewalk, round and vertical like a ketchup bottle. Some nights, Cassie’s father would take the family out to dinner there.

“He’s an idealist, and I love him for that, but… he doesn’t understand how much things cost.”

“Is it really illegal, changing money at Mrs. Glick’s? Could you get arrested for it?”

Her mother shook her head. “It’s like jaywalking, honey. It doesn’t hurt anyone, and the police have better things to do than go after it.”


(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif) Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP473__SoftCurrency.mp3)
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: El Barto on December 29, 2014, 04:11:14 AM
This episode was more thought-provoking than I expected.  As I listened I found myself thinking it was an incredibly stupid premise.  I mean who would really come up with such a stupid law requiring separate currency for men and women?  

And then I realized how many idiotic laws there are around the world and how many people suffer because of so much ignorance, self-interest, and bigotry.  

So, to me, the point of the story was to look around at laws in our current society and wonder, "which ones will history judge harshest?"

In fact, this one got me thinking so much that I had to come back to this edit this comment to say was there a single stitch of science fiction in this story anywhere?
Title: Re:
Post by: bounceswoosh on December 29, 2014, 04:20:04 AM
Alternate history counts as sf.

I both found it ridiculous and then all too believable. When my mom moved to the US from Germany in the early 70s, women couldn't get a loan without their husbands co-signing, and it was very difficult to establish credit history. Not terribly different, actually, in its effects.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: SpareInch on December 30, 2014, 12:35:52 PM
I think one of the most disturbing parts of this story was when the protagonist came up with that rather spurious reason purporting to be the justification of having separate currency. All about how families would fall apart if men were allowed to buy groceries or clothing and women were allowed to buy lawn mowers, or whatever.

It was clearly something made up by a man, and you could tell she didn't really believe it,.

It reminded me of a comment the then Archbishop of Canterbury made the other year when the British government was legalising same sex marriages. He claimed that it shouldn't be allowed on the grounds that same sex couples can't have children... And this from the head of a church which was more than happy to marry elderly couples or people suffering from various types of sterility.

The truth is that these laws, real or fictional, exist to oppress people.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Dwango on December 30, 2014, 07:37:23 PM
This could easily have occurred in the last century and is very believable.  Only 50 years ago, we had segregation which was a highly convoluted system to oppress African-Americans with all sorts of arbitrary laws based on all sorts of racist malarkey.  Women have been treated pretty poorly, getting the vote after African-American men got the vote.  I can easily believe that separate moneys could be set up.  It makes a sort of sick sense to enforce sexual segregation and make it impossible for women to have equal access to education and jobs through the very means needed to do so, money.

Only thing I think missing was a movement to change things.  Throughout history there have been brave men and women who fought oppression in the face of strong opposition.  Susan B. Anthony, Frederick Douglass, Rosa Parks, Ida Wells... While there are many who just accept the situation, such as Cassie's mom, there are those willing to take a stand a fight for change.  In their own era, they get ostracized for their opinions, but they also become emotional focal points that prove out the unfairness of the legal constructs.  Of course, I'm kind of an optimist and always root for the happy ending of sorts, even though I appreciate the dark ending as well.
Title: Re: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: bounceswoosh on December 30, 2014, 11:06:16 PM
This could easily have occurred in the last century and is very believable.  Only 50 years ago, we had segregation which was a highly convoluted system to oppress African-Americans with all sorts of arbitrary laws based on all sorts of racist malarkey.  Women have been treated pretty poorly, getting the vote after African-American men got the vote.  I can easily believe that separate moneys could be set up.  It makes a sort of sick sense to enforce sexual segregation and make it impossible for women to have equal access to education and jobs through the very means needed to do so, money.

Only thing I think missing was a movement to change things.  Throughout history there have been brave men and women who fought oppression in the face of strong opposition.  Susan B. Anthony, Frederick Douglass, Rosa Parks, Ida Wells... While there are many who just accept the situation, such as Cassie's mom, there are those willing to take a stand a fight for change.  In their own era, they get ostracized for their opinions, but they also become emotional focal points that prove out the unfairness of the legal constructs.  Of course, I'm kind of an optimist and always root for the happy ending of sorts, even though I appreciate the dark ending as well.
I am not sure Cassie's mom just accepts the situation. That last part where she calls Mrs Glick an idiot and burned the letter ... I took that to men she didn't want to have cassie believe the apology.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Farseeker on December 31, 2014, 03:02:32 PM
This was the first Escape Pod story in a long time that I disliked enough to stop listening without completing it. I find it uninteresting, tediously and transparently heavy handed in its attempted social commentary, and -- even for an alternate history -- unbelievable.

Seems like the whole story could be effectively summarized as "stereotyped gender roles are dumb". Which is true, but this soapbox of a story added nothing new or interesting about it, just kept hitting you with its sledgehammer.

Using an SF story to make social commentary is a time honored tradition, but if it doesn't start with a well told story, you end up with "Atlas Shrugged", preachy with no redeeming qualities.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on December 31, 2014, 04:48:58 PM
I think that the saving grace of this story is that Cassie's mother burned the letter. This way she isn't exposed to Ethel's self-degrading apologetic explanation. Now the burgeoning feminist thoughts she had had earlier in the story will have on what to grow and maybe, one day, she will help make a difference.
Other than that, this story annoyed me. Probably in a good way, the way it was supposed to by pushing all my buttons about justice and equality and people being jackasses. But still, it annoyed me.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: adrianh on January 01, 2015, 09:49:14 AM
I loved this. It took money — which is a deeply strange thing in of itself — and twisted it in an interesting way. I personally found it all to believable an alt-history considering how contentious women workers were in the US (and elsewhere) during the 40s, and the way that wives finances were tied to their husbands for many years.

Hell — in our timeline the Equal Credit Opportunity Act wasn't passed in the US until 1974! (Up until then banks required unmarried women to bring a man to cosign any credit application — and they would also discount their income when considering the loan up to 50%!)

I also like the focus on the not-very-revolutionary Ethel. For every Malcolm X or Martin Luther King there are hundreds of Ethels. I personally find the Ethels of the world more interesting. They're the ones that encourage the quiet changes that redefine what "normal" is and help societal change happen.

I also read Ethel's apology letter very differently from the comments so far.

This was a letter Ethel knew would be read by the prison staff, so she's hardly going to call for a revolution! Ethel's smart! I read it as something meant to help get Cassie off the hook (you had not part in this, etc.) and a pretty strong message to Cassie to continue doing whatever she thought was sensible.

Cassie's mum didn't burn the letter because she wanted Cassie's burgeoning feminist thoughts to blossom. She burned the letter because she didn't want Ethel encouraging her.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: AirWreck on January 02, 2015, 03:31:09 AM
The problem that I have with alternate history stories like this, is the belief that one country is the entire world. I noticed this in the old show "Sliders" where some silly law is passed and we see the effect, but discount that other countries wouldn't go along with it. Would America still be strong and powerful if they were hamstringing themselves like this? I could actually see Australia being at a competitive advantage in this world. At the very least, the cold war would have been vastly different.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: adrianh on January 02, 2015, 09:54:20 AM
Would America still be strong and powerful if they were hamstringing themselves like this?

Probably. The US managed to get where it is now with de jure racial segregation up until 1968. I don't see the enforced duel economies causing more damage than that. Especially since it's not that far from reality at the time. See the previously mentioned Equal Credit Opportunity Act. I was a kid during the 70s era this was set. I can remember my dad being seen as somewhat odd, with implications of unmanliness,  when he did the food shopping by himself. I can remember my mum being basically denied service in a hardware store without "her husband" to help. Not every store. Not every time. But the societal pressure was there. With a little nudge from legislation and economic necessity I can easily see it sticking.

Would America still be strong and powerful if they were hamstringing themselves like this?
 I could actually see Australia being at a competitive advantage in this world. At the very least, the cold war would have been vastly different.

Why? (curious ;-)
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Devoted135 on January 03, 2015, 04:23:16 AM
I was also deeply annoyed by this story, but I'm pretty sure that's the reaction the author was going for. Talk about a stupid, ridiculous system! Humans have come up with plenty of stupid systems in real life, though I have the impression that most have not been as convoluted as this one. The justifications seemed to sound just as lame to the characters as they did to me. In contrast, I have the impression that people were either vehemently for or against segregation (for example). They may not have actively joined protests, but they at least wouldn't apathetically give the party line to justify the Jim Crow laws. Unless I'm wrong about that... ::)

I liked the narrator's voice and style, but wasn't feeling the attempts at various accents.


This was a letter Ethel knew would be read by the prison staff, so she's hardly going to call for a revolution! Ethel's smart! I read it as something meant to help get Cassie off the hook (you had not part in this, etc.) and a pretty strong message to Cassie to continue doing whatever she thought was sensible.

This is essentially how I interpreted the letter as well.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Zelda on January 03, 2015, 08:41:52 AM
I liked this story very much. I liked the main character and a lot of the interactions in the story, especially those relating to high school popularity. I liked - I don't know how to describe it so I'll say, the texture of the writing. I also liked the choices of the historical events that established the time period of the story.

However I do not find the alternative history proposed in the story believable. A dual currency system would be too hard to impose and belief that national security is tied to having a stable currency is too widespread. There's a reason dollar bills say "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" and states are forbidden from printing their own currency. Besides in the 1940s it was completely legal to say "We're firing you because you're a woman."

I don't think historical economic discrimination against women provides enough of an explanation. The two currency system in the story doesn't just discriminate against women, it also restricts the power of white men by preventing them from purchasing goods that must be paid for with coupons. Actual discrimination is always one-sided in practice.

But as a mental exercise the dual currency system is very interesting.

Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: adrianh on January 03, 2015, 11:09:06 AM
However I do not find the alternative history proposed in the story believable. A dual currency system would be too hard to impose and belief that national security is tied to having a stable currency is too widespread. There's a reason dollar bills say "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" and states are forbidden from printing their own currency. "

The coupons in this story were a government backed legal currency with a government mandated exchange rate — so I don't see national security and stability being an issue.

Personally I thought the introduction background was pretty plausible. Initial introduction post war with the GI Bill to deal with specific social issues, broadened out later on to re-enforce existing societal norms that were seen as "good".  

As an kind-of-related example to look us over in the UK who had 15 years of ration coupons during and post-WW2 — mostly controlled by women through convention rather than law (interestingly both my mum and gran who lived through UK rationing commented in the past on how its removal could be disempowering for women, since overall control of household budgets generally switched back to the wage earning man who controlled the bank account, etc.).

Government coupon coins were a real thing in the US (http://www.ameshistory.org/exhibits/events/rationing.htm) too, although with a different background and history (WW2 rationing) from the ones in this story. (Indeed — I wonder why the author chose not to extend and expand on this rather than use a modified GI Bill as his alt-hist turning point.)

I don't think historical economic discrimination against women provides enough of an explanation. The two currency system in the story doesn't just discriminate against women, it also restricts the power of white men by preventing them from purchasing goods that must be paid for with coupons. Actual discrimination is always one-sided in practice.

I'd agree that it's not just about economic discrimination. It's intent is to reenforce societal norms. Man as wage earner, woman as homemaker. The married couple as the unit that has the easy path in this two currency economy. Which screws children, single people, gays, lesbians, widows, spinsters, etc.

I'd disagree that discrimination is always one-sided in practice. Discrimination often affects multiple sides. When it comes to race look at the miscegenation laws for example. When it comes to discrimination around traditional gender roles many of the problems women had/have becoming doctors are mirrored by the problems men had/have becoming nurses/midwives (the dad of a school friend was training to be a nurse in the late 70s. Some of the shit he put up with from men and women at the time was amazing). Damn that kyriarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy)  ;-)

In the story we have something that's nominally 'separate but equal'. Both sexes have their own currency. Both sexes can change currencies if they need to and ask/pay/barter somebody of the opposite sex to help them purchase products in the other currency.

But I'd argue that the folk in the coupon economy are at a disadvantage. The exchange rate gives dollars more spending power in the coupon economy, having property in the dollar economy, having restaurant food in the dollar economy, etc.

So yes the men face problems too in this world, but not as many as the women.

Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Varda on January 03, 2015, 01:04:57 PM
Really enjoying all the insightful discussion on this one.

I think dystopic literary SF is really, REALLY hard to pull off well, because all too often it's either derivative (everyone's trying to write "1984" even though we've all read it) or takes too big of a jump into everyone accepting things to the point where the characters look like morons and don't behave like actual human beings. But this story worked very well because it showed exactly how and why these sorts of things could happen historically and presently, and why for the people living through it, it could look like business as usual.

For me, this story brought to mind how there really still is an invisible tax on being female in the US, both in the form of wage discrimination (women are paid less for identical work in many industries) and in the form of products purchased (for example, ounce by ounce, "women's" deodorant costs more than "men's", despite them being basically identical products).

I greatly appreciate how this article (http://www.vox.com/2014/8/7/5954899/dry-cleaners-charge-women-more-and-it-matters-more-than-you-realize) sums up this problem:

"You're paying extra to play a made-up role that society pays you less for inhabiting."

So the reason this story works so well for me is because despite the surface-level ridiculousness of the system created, it's really only slightly more ridiculous than what we're already living with. All our excuses for justifying the continuing existence of our own gender-based double economy amount to the same excuses used in this story: they come after the fact, reverse-engineered to explain why we shouldn't have to change anything, because it's really about enforcing social norms and not about fairness or logic at all.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: spork on January 03, 2015, 10:04:17 PM
40 minutes in and STILL talking about the underground exchange rate?  Really? come on, really?

" sledgehammer." well said.  

Preaching in the progressive delusion is the most common thing in SF, it would be nice to see it done in one of the other two delusions for a change.  Or, maybe someone could do the hard work of learning "Real Politiks,"  The truth is stranger than the delusions.  It would make for amazing SF.
 
  
"Using an SF story to make social commentary is a time honored tradition, but if it doesn't start with a well told story, you end up with "Atlas Shrugged", preachy with no redeeming qualities."  well said

Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: spork on January 03, 2015, 10:16:40 PM
pays you less for inhabiting."  ?  really? still?   If you are going to use an sf forum to rehash old politics, you have to be prepared to be engaged.

A re evaluation of the same data, but then using it as normalized data,  as all other data is before it becomes a useful statistic, changed the "69 -78 cents on a dollar" maxim quite a bit. 
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: spork on January 03, 2015, 10:19:21 PM
 until 1974! (Up until then banks required unmarried women to bring a man to cosign any credit application — and they would also discount their income when considering the loan up to 50%!)

a ray of interesting discussion.  thank you.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: AirWreck on January 03, 2015, 11:32:35 PM
I could actually see Australia being at a competitive advantage in this world. At the very least, the cold war would have been vastly different.

Why? (curious ;-)

America became great because of immigration. I could see these laws making it a less desirable place to go to for both genders. So, people trying to leave war-torn Europe would more likely go to a different place. I chose Australia simply because it had been mentioned in the story as not having the laws. (In my heart I am biased and was thinking Canada.) If a different place was becoming a dynamic and vibrant country instead of the States, how would America have reacted?
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: eytanz on January 03, 2015, 11:39:59 PM
Moderator note Spork - please tone it down, please. Your arguments are fine, but saying things like "a ray of interesting discussion" (implying that the rest of the discussion is not interesting) is pretty rude.

Also, if you plan on quoting things, please do something to distinguish the quotes from your own text. Quote tags are best, but if you don't want to use them, do something else. Your posts are rather difficult to read at the moment.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: jkjones21 on January 04, 2015, 12:20:59 AM
pays you less for inhabiting."  ?  really? still?   If you are going to use an sf forum to rehash old politics, you have to be prepared to be engaged.

A re evaluation of the same data, but then using it as normalized data,  as all other data is before it becomes a useful statistic, changed the "69 -78 cents on a dollar" maxim quite a bit.

First point: It's not old politics to talk about something that is still an issue.  That's like saying to someone who's recovering from surgery in the hospital when you go to visit them, "Oh, do we have to talk about the gaping wound in your side?  That's such old news."  You might quibble over the size of the gaping wound, but it's asinine (and rude) to deny that it's there.

Second point: Sea lioning (http://wondermark.com/1k62/) is a serious problem.  Help us fight it today with your own blunt force instrument.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: adrianh on January 04, 2015, 12:33:49 AM
America became great because of immigration. I could see these laws making it a less desirable place to go to for both genders. So, people trying to leave war-torn Europe would more likely go to a different place. I chose Australia simply because it had been mentioned in the story as not having the laws. (In my heart I am biased and was thinking Canada.) If a different place was becoming a dynamic and vibrant country instead of the States, how would America have reacted?

Not so sure. The peak years of European immigration to the US were in early 1900s. Ever since then they've been passing more and more laws to stop those dreadful foreigners coming over ;-) So most of the impact of immigration had happened long before WW2 ended and the coupon currency was introduced. I'd pick the natural resources in the US and not being totalled by two world wars as bigger factors in their success.

The Canadian border would be interesting in this world though! I wonder if other countries treated coupons as currency, or could you only change dollars into other currencies. I'd bet there would be some kind of interesting semi-underground cross border trade.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Maxilu on January 04, 2015, 06:26:31 AM
I felt like I was being beaten over the head with all the morality tales at once. As a result, the message felt spread thin and bland. I had a hard time caring about Cassie. Ethel was interesting, but Margaret was the only intriguing character for me, and then the twist at the end spoiled her.

I'd much rather have heard this story from Ethel or Margaret's point of view. I feel like Margaret could be redeemed back into interesting-ness if we found that she really believes the things she told Cassie, and wasn't just acting as a vehicle for exposition of the world.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Chairman Goodchild on January 04, 2015, 09:23:23 AM
This was the first Escape Pod story in a long time that I disliked enough to stop listening without completing it. I find it uninteresting, tediously and transparently heavy handed in its attempted social commentary, and -- even for an alternate history -- unbelievable.

Seems like the whole story could be effectively summarized as "stereotyped gender roles are dumb". Which is true, but this soapbox of a story added nothing new or interesting about it, just kept hitting you with its sledgehammer.

Using an SF story to make social commentary is a time honored tradition, but if it doesn't start with a well told story, you end up with "Atlas Shrugged", preachy with no redeeming qualities.

You didn't miss anything.  At the end, old Ethyl running the grocery store got busted and went to jail.
 
A story has to stand on its own virtues without any kind of symbolism or allegory.  Once those are stripped from this story, it becomes a piece about an unworkable economic system and the mundane daily lives of women who live in it, both described in excruciating detail for thirty minutes.  World-building by itself just doesn't work well as short fiction, and this is one of the weaker pieces that Escape Pod has done in awhile.

The author shows much creativity with this piece, and I hope that he can use this well-done exercise in world-building to create more engaging pieces in the future.  
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: slic on January 04, 2015, 06:46:49 PM
I'll admit to not getting through the whole story either :-(

I'm sort of the opposite of Zelda - I found the alt-history believable, but I found the story very cludgy and the dialogue was stilted/unnatural:
"By the time Cassie turned fifteen, her family had moved to the nearest suburb, and Richard Nixon was President. At Glick’s Grocery, which had moved to the same suburb..."
To me the first sentence it too clever by half - it wants to get lots of information in as few words as possible (which is good), but these two items are so unrelated it's startling.  And the second sentence is such a coincidence - clearly the author just wanted Cassie to be in Mrs. Glick's store, and conjured up this reason.

"She set down a twenty-coupon note on top of the fifty. “Why do they have separate money for men and women?”"
You immigrated to this country and one of the most unusual practices it has never came up before?  Yes, maybe the reader needs to understand why this unusual behaviour exists, but it should have been introduced more subtly or perhaps you leave it as a given.

“You know, she doesn’t have to worry about changing too much money,” Tonya said. “When the President froze wages and prices, he also froze the exchange rate between dollars and coupons. So as long as she uses up the coupons by November, she won’t miss out on anything.”
Nobody talks to their people they know like this.  When I get stuck on dialogue, I actually tell me kids what is happening in the story and get them to explain/have a conversation about it with me


Using an SF story to make social commentary is a time honored tradition...
A story has to stand on its own virtues without any kind of symbolism or allegory.  Once those are stripped from this story, it becomes a piece about an unworkable economic system and the mundane daily lives of women who live in it, both described in excruciating detail for thirty minutes.  World-building by itself just doesn't work well as short fiction, and this is one of the weaker pieces that Escape Pod has done in awhile.
I whole heartedly agree with the above comments. 

This story is an intriguing twist to look at the real problem we have today about inequality and the largely submissive way we allow it to continue, and kudos to the author for trying to tackle it.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: SpareInch on January 05, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
"She set down a twenty-coupon note on top of the fifty. “Why do they have separate money for men and women?”"
You immigrated to this country and one of the most unusual practices it has never came up before?  Yes, maybe the reader needs to understand why this unusual behaviour exists, but it should have been introduced more subtly or perhaps you leave it as a given.


If you had managed to reach the end, then you'd have noticed that the supposed Australian immigrant was in fact a born US citizen who had probably never been to Australia. She was a government agent provocateur sent to ferret out dissidents.

Since a short story can't devote hundreds of pages to the slow and delicate process by which a secret agent recruits and grooms a contact, and given that this unwitting contact was a schoolgirl, so subtlety may well have been wasted on her, you still have to do SOMETHING to show her being groomed so that she will vouch for the agent and cause her boss to get arrested.

As for comment on a country's strange laws and customs... When I was a student at a Scottish university, I had a conversation with a postgraduate student from Oman who had already done his Bachelor's degree in the UK. Despite having spent four or five years in Britain, he still wanted to know why we tax people, in the form of an annual licence, for the privilege of watching TV.

I say that again. After paying a couple of hundred pounds every year for half a decade to watch TV legally, he STILL asked me why we Brits do that.

Makes the question in the story perfectly plausible, if you ask me.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Fenrix on January 05, 2015, 08:08:45 PM
Cash-only systems would be significantly impacted by the gendered cash system. Working under the table as well as drug dealing would be significantly impacted. But the (hetero) sex industry (legal or illegal) would be severely damaged. Their frequent cash-changing activities without a husband would raise red flags and lead to additional stings and arrests. Politicians would use family values and the delicate sensibilities of The Children to maintain the gendered cash system.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: jkjones21 on January 05, 2015, 08:55:36 PM
This is kind of a weird aside, but as I was listening to the story, I kept getting distracted by the reader's put on Australian accent.  It didn't sound very good to me (but I'm an American who's never met an Australian, so I likely have no idea what a genuine Australian accent might sound like), but then when I got to the end of the story and discovered that she was a federal agent doing an undercover operation, the poor accent made more sense.  Of course, the southern accent was also not very good (and I am from the South, so I have slightly firmer ground to stand on here), but that's just getting into quibbles.  Overall I genuinely enjoyed the reading.

As for the ending with Cassie's mom burning the letter, I go back and forth on what it means.  I feel like the author might have been going for some ambiguity there, with Ms. Glick trying to communicate to Cassie how the system set her up to break the law, and feeling ambivalent about the direction her life had taken.  The burning of the letter could probably be read either as Cassie's mom disapproving of Ethel's quiet rebellion, or finding the backpedaling distasteful and a poor example in Cassie's education of how the system was unjust.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Fenrix on January 05, 2015, 08:58:21 PM
I think the motivation for the letter burning is a Rorschach blot for the reader. I see a butterfly.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Unblinking on January 06, 2015, 02:02:43 PM
I found it hard to finish this story.  I found the alt-hist believable, and as others have said is only a slightly more formal enforcement of gender rules than were actually basically in effect from social norms at the time. 

But I found the story unreadable--it was little more than infodumping its premise on me and then beating it to death over and over.  It's not that difficult of a concept to understand, though of course the implications require some further thought to really hash out, but the story went over and over it as though it needed all that explanation.  Let's have one character explain the entire premise to another character who really ought to know already.  The "twist" of the secret agent didn't help matters any--it was clear an arrest was going to happen to justify all this explaining, the undercover officer felt kind of shoehorned in to make that feasible.

I found the burning of the letter about the only strong point--for me it was quite clear that Ethel was spreading her revolutionary message in the letter.  She knew her letter would be censored and if she said anything overtly incendiary the letter would never make it past the prison administration.  Instead she says straight out that Cassie is innocent to avoid implicating her young friend, but at the same time she spells out exactly how and why she had done what she had done, basically laying the path so that someone else who read the letter could follow in her footsteps.  The mother reads the letter, sees it for the secret call to revolution that it shows, and burns the letter to save her daughter from a dangerous corrupting influence--she wants what's best for her daughter even if she knows her daughter wouldn't understand.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: hardware on January 06, 2015, 11:49:15 PM
As many here, I found the story to be more interested in setting up a scenario than telling a story, the exposition didn't feel organic and the system described in itself felt unpractical, or at least as something that would have more wide ranging and sinister consequences than what the story hinted at. I enjoyed the subplot with her friends and the fact that the mother burned the letter in the end - which I assumed anyway had been written under duress.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: albionmoonlight on January 08, 2015, 07:01:03 PM
It was not until 1971--after the setting of this story--that the Supreme Court recognized a constitutional obligation on behalf of the government not to discriminate on the basis of gender.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_v._Reed

And, it was in 1873 when Supreme Court justices still wrote things like
Quote
[t]he natural and proper timidity and delicacy which belongs to the female sex evidently unfits it for many of the occupations of civil life... The paramount destiny and mission of women are to fulfill the noble and benign offices of wife and mother. This is the law of the Creator.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradwell_v._Illinois  (Funny thing there is that the case was actually decided on the much more technical issues of whether the right to practice law is a "privilege and immunity."  This whole "God thinks women are too delicate to be lawyers" bit was a concurrence that Justice Bradley just felt needed to be added.)

Things are, thankfully, better now.  But it is not like these issues are ancient history.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: ElectricPaladin on January 16, 2015, 06:35:53 PM
I really enjoyed this story. I loved the creeping sense of wrongness as I gradually came to understand what was going on. It was practically a horror story in that sense. But particularly, I loved the way it used the "soft" elements - the relationships and dialogue, all masterfully done - to underline the "hard" brutality of this sexist society. The grocer's story, how she ended up in jail because she broke the law because it was the only way to stay in business, all because she found it fulfilling to do something that society told her was not her "place." Which, of course, mimics the sexism in our society. That's what sexism is - a brutal, uncaring, artificial limit on our humanity, a lie that limits and degrades us all.

I found this story pretty inspiring. I'm working on a fantasy story about a brutally divided sexist society, and I'm thinking of stealing a lot from this story and maybe taking it further. What if men and women had more than just different money - what if the space in their cities were sharply divided, with residences and some public buildings as the only crossover locations? What if they had different languages, with a third, shared language that everyone was fluent in? I'm going to have to chew on this... it's an interesting concept.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: UnfulredJohnson on February 13, 2015, 01:04:06 AM
Yeah I had to pass on this one, in the end I found to be a story about coupons,  and that's just not my thing.
Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: Midsouth.Mouth on February 13, 2015, 02:12:17 AM
I enjoyed this one so much I listened to it three times in one week.  It even spurred me, a LTLFTC, to register.

The comments about the plausibility of the currency system miss the history of the United States as place that used to have competing currencies.  This piggybacks on the comment about the how story makes us question supposed normalcy. This an alternate history story that asks us to reframe mundane history as strange and historically specific.

Title: Re: EP473: Soft Currency
Post by: CryptoMe on July 01, 2015, 10:38:49 PM
Only thing I think missing was a movement to change things. 

I would disagree with this greatly. There was in fact a quiet movement to change things. The women doctors who worked for coupons. They were certainly changing things.

And I have to say that the most interesting character for me was Tonya (the black girl who was Cassie's class mate). She had plans and ambitions that were not strapped down by the two-tier currency system.