Author Topic: Movies Destroyed by Sequels  (Read 34942 times)

wintermute

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Reply #50 on: April 14, 2008, 10:31:22 PM
Man, I like the Bring it on movies (If you've not seen them, here is an excellent synopsis. But, as cheerleader movies go, it's not a patch on Sugar & Spice, in which a pregnant cheerleader plans a bank robbery by watching Point Break.

Movies that were spoiled by their sequels?
Beastmaster. Friday. Any Disney animated feature based on a classic fairytale.

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Darwinist

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Reply #51 on: April 14, 2008, 10:53:50 PM
Cannonball Run  ;).  Caddyshack.  Bring it On  ;).

Were the first films any good to begin with?  (OK, I'll give you Caddyshack, maybe.)

No, Caddyshack had its moments, but the other two were terrible I'd say.

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Reply #52 on: April 15, 2008, 07:18:52 PM
Every Psycho succeeding the first Alfred Hitchcock movie. I'm surprised the Zombie Invasion didn't start with the spontaneous reanimation of Alfred Hitchcock's corpse from the violation done to that movie.



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Reply #53 on: April 15, 2008, 09:11:45 PM
Pretty much any superhero movie gets worse with each sequel - mostly because they over do it trying to "top" the previous one.  (haven't seen FF2 - this may be the exception).

One exception is X2 - X-Men United which definitely surpassed its predecessor.  (The third, not so great, but watcheable.)

What's "FF2"?

Fantastic Four 2. If it's better than the first one, it's only because the bar was so, so low.

Ah.  Haven't seen either.  What I've heard about them doesn't encourage me to do so.

In case anyone is wavering: don't bother.  Everything cool about this movie was in the trailer. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y3EC_V9A-rw&amp;hl=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Y3EC_V9A-rw&amp;hl=en</a>

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Russell Nash

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Reply #54 on: April 15, 2008, 09:25:39 PM
Pretty much any superhero movie gets worse with each sequel - mostly because they over do it trying to "top" the previous one.  (haven't seen FF2 - this may be the exception).

One exception is X2 - X-Men United which definitely surpassed its predecessor.  (The third, not so great, but watcheable.)

What's "FF2"?

Fantastic Four 2. If it's better than the first one, it's only because the bar was so, so low.

Ah.  Haven't seen either.  What I've heard about them doesn't encourage me to do so.

In case anyone is wavering: don't bother.  Everything cool about this movie was in the trailer. 


I always thought the Silver Surfer was a good guy.  As I have stated before, I never read comics.



wintermute

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Reply #55 on: April 15, 2008, 10:52:50 PM
I always thought the Silver Surfer was a good guy.  As I have stated before, I never read comics.

Well, he's not exactly a bad guy. It's just that his boss likes to eat planets, and sometimes people live on those planets. It's SS's job to warn people o those planets that they might want to make a crash investment in space travel...

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Reply #56 on: April 15, 2008, 10:59:43 PM
As I understand it, he was somewhat of a bad guy (or at least a guy employed by a bad guy), who turned on his boss and became a good guy. 

I think.

I haven't actually watched the movies.


Russell Nash

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Reply #57 on: April 16, 2008, 09:21:07 AM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.



wintermute

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Reply #58 on: April 16, 2008, 10:44:45 AM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

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Reply #59 on: April 16, 2008, 12:56:56 PM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

Or for good superhero flix, get the X-Men trilogy if you haven't already.

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Reply #60 on: April 16, 2008, 01:50:02 PM
I wouldn't say "destroyed", but I really don't think "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" needed a sequel.  It was pretty awesome all on its own.  "Bogus Journey" was pretty funny, though, especially with William Sadler's great interpretation of Death.

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Reply #61 on: April 16, 2008, 02:07:54 PM
I wouldn't say "destroyed", but I really don't think "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" needed a sequel.  It was pretty awesome all on its own.  "Bogus Journey" was pretty funny, though, especially with William Sadler's great interpretation of Death.

I loved Bogus Journey it was an awesome goof on Berman's The Seventh Seal.

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Russell Nash

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Reply #62 on: April 16, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

Or for good superhero flix, get the X-Men trilogy if you haven't already.

Saw Darkman.  Danny Elfman's music was the best part.

Saw all three X-men.  We liked them. ::Ducks and runs.::



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Reply #63 on: April 16, 2008, 03:48:19 PM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

Or for good superhero flix, get the X-Men trilogy if you haven't already.

Although I'd stop at X2.  I blame the Rat.

Russell, I've heard almost universally that the second FF film was better than the first.  Still can't vouch for it personally.


Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #64 on: April 17, 2008, 03:15:30 AM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

Or for good superhero flix, get the X-Men trilogy if you haven't already.

Although I'd stop at X2.  I blame the Rat.

Russell, I've heard almost universally that the second FF film was better than the first.  Still can't vouch for it personally.

Ah-bah-wha??   ???

I thought there was quite a lot to like about X3... and not so much about FF2.  I think, upon reflection that I was mostly disappointed that the Silver Surfer did really "do" anything, they pulled a lot of cheesy plot gags with the wedding, and the Millenium dome figured into the thing somehow.  (Is anyone ever going to figure out what that's for?)

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Reply #65 on: April 17, 2008, 06:51:07 PM
If you liked the first FF, then sure, go for the second one.  It's cheezy, no doubt.  But it has some great moments.  And I have a huge soft spot for the Silver Surfer, and they did a pretty good job on him.  Apparently they're looking at giving him his own film, which would be great. 

Now don't get me wrong - FF2 isn't a good movie, and it's not generally recommended.  But if you enjoyed the first one, nothing in the second should put you off from it.



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Reply #66 on: April 18, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
Question:

My wife and I have never read a single thing about FF or SS.  We saw the first movie and thought it was OK popcorn, comic book movie fun.  Should we see the second film??  It's already on the Netflix list, although it is pretty far down.

I wouldn't bother. Watch Darkman or The Phantom instead. They're also not very good, but they're more fun.

Or for good superhero flix, get the X-Men trilogy if you haven't already.

Although I'd stop at X2.  I blame the Rat.

Russell, I've heard almost universally that the second FF film was better than the first.  Still can't vouch for it personally.

Ah-bah-wha??   ???

I thought there was quite a lot to like about X3... and not so much about FF2.  I think, upon reflection that I was mostly disappointed that the Silver Surfer did really "do" anything, they pulled a lot of cheesy plot gags with the wedding, and the Millenium dome figured into the thing somehow.  (Is anyone ever going to figure out what that's for?)

Keep in mind that I think X2 is one of the two best comic book movies ever made.  It took a really good comic book movie and made a better one on top of, and set the stage for something GREAT to come with Jean's death.  I could go on and on about why I hated X3.  And the more I think about it, I don't really blame the Rat.  He had a bad script to start with and a studio that was racing to get a movie to the theater before Singer and Superman Returns. 

Spoilers after this point.  Just saying.

Jean Grey was a non-character.  Essentially, she's the most powerful woman in the universe.  And what does she do?  Stand behind Magneto for the majority of the movie and scowl.

Another virus/drug that makes mutants not mutants anymore?  Ugh.  Based off another mutant?  Double Ugh.  What about the Dark Phoenix!?!?!?!

Scott died in the first 20 minutes.  I don't like killing a character like that, but I can understand why they did it.  However, killing him without any kind of emotional cinch = poor writing.  (Compare Jean dying at the end of X2.) 

Wolverine had VERY little to do and was really very much a passive character.  Wolverine, by nature, IS NOT a passive character.

The Iceman/Kitty Pryde/Rogue love triangle.

One thing that made it feel very much like a comic book was the ever-hating Retcon at the film's end.  Everything that happened in the movie doesn't matter because the mutant anti-virus was bullshit.  At the end of the movie Magneto can move a metal chess piece.  And Professor X isn't really dead.  He transferred his consciousness to someone else. 

I will say I did like Kelsey Grammar's Beast.  And I'm looking forward to the Wolverine movie (especially since they have a solid writer and a solid director). 


Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #67 on: April 19, 2008, 12:31:43 PM
Yeah... I can certainly see your points.  I guess I didn't interpret things the way you did... wishful thinking on my part?  :)

I took the virus/drug strand as an allegory for homosexuality (because so many folks get wrapped around the "is it genetic or choice" question - thus finding a "cure" would be a troublesome thing indeed).  They also seemed to be trying to explore questions about when it is appropriate for an oppressed minority to abandon the system... a question that democracy has wrestled with for millenia.

Fair cop on the Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix under-utilization and Wolverine's basic passivity... but I think that's because they were trying to embed too much thematic tension and forgot to translate that into physical action onscreen.  The conflict within Jean between her power and her conscience mirrored the outside conflicts, such as the conflict between Prof. X and Magneto (working out the "freedom fighter vs. terrorist" question) and between herself and Wolverine (which in turn represented her internal struggle between her ego and id).

Or I could have just been reading too much into it... I do that when they don't give me enough to watch on camera.  ;)

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Reply #68 on: April 19, 2008, 02:00:58 PM
Just thought of another one.  Mortal Kombat, while not a great movie, was still fun, but Annihilation was lame, and they didn't even keep Christopher Lambert as Raiden.  Just about the only thing they did right was to kill Johnny Cage within the first five minutes :)

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Reply #69 on: April 19, 2008, 06:05:55 PM
Yeah... I can certainly see your points.  I guess I didn't interpret things the way you did... wishful thinking on my part?  :)

I took the virus/drug strand as an allegory for homosexuality (because so many folks get wrapped around the "is it genetic or choice" question - thus finding a "cure" would be a troublesome thing indeed).  They also seemed to be trying to explore questions about when it is appropriate for an oppressed minority to abandon the system... a question that democracy has wrestled with for millenia.

Fair cop on the Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix under-utilization and Wolverine's basic passivity... but I think that's because they were trying to embed too much thematic tension and forgot to translate that into physical action onscreen.  The conflict within Jean between her power and her conscience mirrored the outside conflicts, such as the conflict between Prof. X and Magneto (working out the "freedom fighter vs. terrorist" question) and between herself and Wolverine (which in turn represented her internal struggle between her ego and id).

Or I could have just been reading too much into it... I do that when they don't give me enough to watch on camera.  ;)

my big queston is , why did the big W nail jean when the whole flore was literd whith mutant fixing hipodermiks?

card carying dislexic and  gramatical revolushonery


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Reply #70 on: April 19, 2008, 06:14:45 PM
Yeah... I can certainly see your points.  I guess I didn't interpret things the way you did... wishful thinking on my part?  :)

I took the virus/drug strand as an allegory for homosexuality (because so many folks get wrapped around the "is it genetic or choice" question - thus finding a "cure" would be a troublesome thing indeed).  They also seemed to be trying to explore questions about when it is appropriate for an oppressed minority to abandon the system... a question that democracy has wrestled with for millenia.

Fair cop on the Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix under-utilization and Wolverine's basic passivity... but I think that's because they were trying to embed too much thematic tension and forgot to translate that into physical action onscreen.  The conflict within Jean between her power and her conscience mirrored the outside conflicts, such as the conflict between Prof. X and Magneto (working out the "freedom fighter vs. terrorist" question) and between herself and Wolverine (which in turn represented her internal struggle between her ego and id).

Or I could have just been reading too much into it... I do that when they don't give me enough to watch on camera.  ;)

my big queston is , why did the big W nail jean when the whole flore was literd whith mutant fixing hipodermiks?

Same reason people like emo and opera... it's better to die an angsty death than it is to fix whatever's wrong and be stuck livin'.  (Besides, that Retcon DKT outlined should teach us that you should never say "never"....)

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Reply #71 on: April 21, 2008, 07:05:05 PM
I took the virus/drug strand as an allegory for homosexuality (because so many folks get wrapped around the "is it genetic or choice" question - thus finding a "cure" would be a troublesome thing indeed).  They also seemed to be trying to explore questions about when it is appropriate for an oppressed minority to abandon the system... a question that democracy has wrestled with for millenia.


Definitely.  And I don't have a problem with that -- at their best, that was always what the X-Men comics were about, it just felt like that's not only exactly the last movie was about, but they used the exact same device.  I'm good with stories that deal about prejudice and being different.  I just think there's a lot of different ways that topic can be explored than yet again creating a vaccine for the mutant virus. 

It will be interesting to see if they make another X-Men movie.  I'd love to see more, especially if they brought back Bryan Singer to direct (thought that doesn't look likely).  I know they're planning on some Wolverine movies (which should hopefully be good), a Magneto origin movie (which will hopefully not be Young Hannibal Lecter), and a X-Men kid movie (not really interested, to be honest.  If you're going to do a comic book movie about teens, do Runaways).

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« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 07:46:44 PM by Russell Nash »



Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #72 on: April 25, 2008, 02:30:42 AM
I took the virus/drug strand as an allegory for homosexuality (because so many folks get wrapped around the "is it genetic or choice" question - thus finding a "cure" would be a troublesome thing indeed).  They also seemed to be trying to explore questions about when it is appropriate for an oppressed minority to abandon the system... a question that democracy has wrestled with for millenia.


Definitely.  And I don't have a problem with that -- at their best, that was always what the X-Men comics were about, it just felt like that's not only exactly the last movie was about, but they used the exact same device.  I'm good with stories that deal about prejudice and being different.  I just think there's a lot of different ways that topic can be explored than yet again creating a vaccine for the mutant virus. 

It will be interesting to see if they make another X-Men movie.  I'd love to see more, especially if they brought back Bryan Singer to direct (thought that doesn't look likely).  I know they're planning on some Wolverine movies (which should hopefully be good), a Magneto origin movie (which will hopefully not be Young Hannibal Lecter), and a X-Men kid movie (not really interested, to be honest.  If you're going to do a comic book movie about teens, do Runaways).


I thought they covered Magneto's origin thoroughly enough... but I could certainly see him in a heroic position.  He interests me as a villain because he isn't evil - he makes choices that I wouldn't make, but I can respect what he's trying to do.  And Sir Ian rocks the otherwise lame helmet... could anyone else look so dignified in that thing?

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stePH

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Reply #73 on: May 27, 2008, 07:58:52 PM
How about Harry Potter?

Qualifier: saw the first four films, read the first six books, saw the fifth film, and read the final book.

On the films:
Loved the first two, with the second being my favorite.

Really didn't like the third at all, but when I read the third book it turned out to be my favorite of all the seven.

The fourth film was good for the most part, but really fell down at the end by failing to convey the gravity of the situation; it almost seemed like the filmmakers were trying to end on an "up" note in spite of it all.

I didn't expect much of the fifth film, nor do I expect much of the sixth, because the fifth and sixth books were mostly just Rowling spinning her wheels.  Thankfully she regained enough traction to make the seventh book a worthy conclusion, but it will be difficult to adapt well to the screen.

[editing to add that movies based on series of novels are an entirely different barrel of fish from the original scope of this thread.]
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 09:21:22 PM by stePH »

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Reply #74 on: June 03, 2008, 10:35:51 AM
I was a bit disapointed by the sequals of Cube.
Cube was awesome, it blew me away. The sequals were okay, but they were a bit too much: take the idea of the original Cube and make it more flashy, colorful, Hollywood. It fell flat while it could have been so goooood, if only someone had thought about the concept a bit longer.
That what mostly happens with sequals: just making sequals to make a lot of money and completely let go of the great concept of the first movie. Is it really that hard for creative minds to think of a good sequal? I hope not, but it hasn't been done a lot. I think, if you have the briljant mind to come up with a strong first movie, you must have the 'power' to create a briljant sequal, going deeper on the psychological level you present in the first movie. If not, then think about the concept a few years longer or please please please, _don't_ make a sequal.

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