Author Topic: Nihilism in "The Scar"  (Read 9476 times)

Mr. Tweedy

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on: August 14, 2007, 04:02:50 PM
In "The Veteran" thread I said that I think that China Miéville's book "The Scar" is nihilistic.  Others disagreed.  I am not particularly interested in trying prove or convince that I am right: This is a matter of interpretation, and there probably isn't any way to prove that the book is or is not nihilistic other than for Miéville to show up and tell us.

But I am very curious to know how others perceived the book, though, and what interpretive method they are using.  To me, the story was so utterly bleak and hollow that–although I acknowledge the Miévill is a writer or great talent–I don't think I will ever read another of his books.  It's nihilistic hopelessness hit me so hard that I felt punished, like it had been written just to get me down.  I wonder how others could have gotten something so different out of it.

So what do I mean by "nihilism?"

Here's what my (sometimes disputed) dictionary says: "The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless."

That's a good synopsis, I think, although the most important aspect of that definition is the end, the "life is meaningless" part, and that's the part I most refer to when I use the term.  A work is nihilistic if it presents a worldview which says that it is impossible for humans to achieve anything relevant and that, ultimately, life itself is irrelevant.  Nothing anybody says or does makes any difference in the end.  Anybody who tries to achieve will find frustration because there isn't anything to achieve.  To twist an oft-used aphorism: The journey is meaningless because there is no destination.  That's nihilism.

Although most nihilistic works are depressing, nihilistic and depressing are not synonymous.  For instance: "Of Mice and Men" is both nihilistic and depressing.  "Animal Farm" is depressing, but not nihilistic.  I interpret "Waiting for Godot" as being nihilistic, but it is meant to be funny, not depressing.  I would list "The Scar" with "Mice and Men" as being both nihilistic and depressing.

On to The Scar itself: Why do I think it is nihilistic?

Essentially, I think this because every character in the story fails, and their failures are of such a nature that they do not serve to teach any lesson or illustrate any point.  No matter what it is that anyone is trying to achieve (and their goals are highly varied), they don't get it, despite their best efforts.  The moral therefore seems to be simply that failure is inevitable and striving is futile.

A list of failures (pardon misspellings):

Shekel - Wants to live.  After going through a detailed coming-of-age, he is gratuitously killed.
Tanner Sack - Wants to live.  He is tricked into betraying his community, then looses the only person he loves.  He ends up a lonely hermit, living in perpetual grief.
The Lovers - Want each other and to reach the Scar.  They lose each other and do not reach the Scar.
Johannes Tearfly - Wants scientific understanding of the world.  Is horribly murdered just before he can achieve his goal.
Krauk Aum - Ditto.
Silas Fennec - Wants to get his maps of the Gengris and himself back home.  Both he and the maps are captured by the Gridylow.
New Crobuzon - Wants the maps.  Half their military is destroyed tying to get them, but they fail.
Uther Doul - Wants to avoid all responsibility, but has to resort to elaborate charades in order to do so, revealing himself to be a hypocrite.
Bellis Coldwine - Tries to get to Nova Esperium, tries to save New Crobuzon.  Is abducted by pirates and NC was never in danger.  Her ignorant efforts to save it result only in massive death on all sides.
The Brucolac - Tries to save Armada.  Starts a bloody civil war that ends up achieving nothing except the deaths of his own people.
The people Armada - Want to be left alone.  Get sucked into a war that kills half of them.
The avanc - Poor dumb animal just wants to swim around.  It gets hooked, cut to ribbons, and dies.

Probably others I'm forgetting, and certainly many minor characters who only get brief mention.  in sum, everyone gets the shaft somehow.  Regardless of their goals, their motives, or their intentions, everyone fails and everyone ends up suffering terribly, and none of them learn much, if anything, from their experiences.  They don't come away better or wiser, just older and sadder.  The story itself accomplishes nothing: In the end, the status quo in Bas-Lag is maintained, only with a few thousand fresh corpses added to it.

Successes:
The savage Grindylow get to keep their nightmarish swamp kingdom.  .....And, that's it.

-----------------

It seems to me that a story all about ubiquitous and universal failure, futility, suffering and death is nihilistic.  What other moral could there be?  It was certainly very depressing.

Anyway, that was a long rant.  I'm curious to know why other people did not find the The Scar to be either nihilistic or depressing, and how they interpret it so as to come to those conclusions.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 07:36:32 PM by SFEley »

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Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 04:37:26 PM
Oi, Tweedy.  Glad you started this thread. 

It's interesting that you consider Of Mice and Men nihlistic.  I never would've thought of it that way but after reading your definition, I guess I can see it.  I'm not sure I'm completely swayed, but I can see it. 

As far as the Scar goes, I completely agree that it's depressing.  All of Mieville's work that I've read is dark and disturbing and often depressing (I haven't read his YA book, yet).  It may be nihlistic.  I wasn't trying to argue against either of those things in the Veteran thread. 

What I didn't agree with in that thread was that the deaths were useless or meaningless.  The deaths of the characthers affected other characters in pretty significant ways and (IIRC -- it's been about 5 years since I read it) caused them to re-examine their positions and what they were doing, as with Shekel and Tanner Sack. 

I think Mieville's stuff is a lot like Alan Moore's in that he's always pointing out the failures of individuals as well as the established government.  He doesn't trust the government and he believes that blind faith in them can lead to horrible things (as it did with both the Lovers and the New Crobuzon militia). 

At the end of the book, doesn't a Cactae return (can't remember his name) and persuade everyone to turn away from the Scar?  I'd say that's a pretty strong arguement that an individual can influence others and change things.  Although often great loss and suffering often have to come before.  And yeah, the characters are pretty broken by the end of the book, but that's because they have been changed.  Armada searched for the Scar (kind of similiar to Melville's Ahab hunting the elsuive white whale, now that I think about it).  Now, the people have of Armada have realized it's not worth the price to pursue that obsession.  So, I don't know if the work is nihlistic or not.  It might be.  It doesn't bother me if it is. 

As far as the rest of Mieville's other stuff, I don't know if I'd recommend it to you.  Perdido Street Station is one of my absolute favorite books -- the ending still haunts me.  Iron Council not so much, but it carries the same tone as PSS and the Scar.


Mr. Tweedy

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Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 04:47:25 PM
The end of the book appeals to the "everything that can happen does happen" school of quantum theory.  A cactacae comes in on a balloon.  He claims to be a from a parallel reality in which Armada reached the Scar, fell into it, and was destroyed.  He was able to slip between worlds because of the spacial instabilities around the Scar.  His testimony–that the Scar will destroy Armada–is what convinces them to turn around and not go there.

The book leaves ambiguous, though, whether or not this is what really happened.  The cactacea who arrives with the warning is the same one who disappeared a few days earlier, meaning that he might not be a parallel-universe duplicate, but actually the same guy who just left and came back, with the intention of making up a story to scare everyone.

In either case, Armada's quest for the Scar is futile and fruitless.  They don't ever get there and gain nothing from their journey.

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Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 04:59:56 PM
I don't know how much it's possible to seperate the question of the novels from the POV of the reader. I wasn't struck by the Scar as being particularly nihilistic, but rather just pessimistic. It was a novel of failures and betrayals, and its true that there isn't much a of a lesson to be learnt, at least not for most characters, but failure is not the same as meaninglessness, and lessons are only one type of meaning. But then, this is clearly influenced by my own philosophy - since for me, life has meaning simply by virtue of being life, while morality is meaningless except as a tool for social behavior, I'm not sure I'd be likely to interpret the novel differently.

Iron Council, by the way, is far harder to defend against the charge of nihilism - I think that unlike the Scar (or PSS), which simply doesn't provide much meaning but allows the reader to supply it, Iron Council actively denies it.



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Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 05:04:26 PM
All of Mieville's work that I've read is dark and disturbing and often depressing (I haven't read his YA book, yet).

This is just a quick comment - Un Lun Dun is not depressing (nor nihilistic), though it is on the darker side of novels aimed at 10-12 year olds. I found it quite uplifting, actually. I strongly recommend it to people who don't like Mieville's other books, but generally enjoy fantasy.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 07:37:44 PM by SFEley »



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Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 05:11:50 PM
That's right, I remember the ending being a bit too ambiguous for me and not really my cup of tea.  

I know from reading interviews with Mieville, he's not big at all on "the quest" stories where a hero is given a task to undertake, performs it, and then is somehow changed.  In this book, he took the opposite approach, a society undertakes a journey, turns away, and is changed.  They're changed because they realize the Lovers obssession is just that and nothing significant or worthwhile, certainly nothing to justify the cost they've paid, will be gained by reaching the Scar.  

What I'm saying is that the characters do gain something from their journey -- a different perspective.  It might be better to say that they lose more and are thus transformed.  It is depressing and disturbing, but they are changed.  


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Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 05:12:51 PM
This is just a quick comment - Un Lun Dun is not depressing (nor nihilistic), though it is on the darker side of novels aimed at 10-12 year olds. I found it quite uplifting, actually. I strongly recommend it to people who don't like Mieville's other books, but generally enjoy fantasy.

That's cool.  I'm looking forward to a slightly more happy book by Mieville.  I think he's due one.  ;)


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Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 07:35:07 PM
Yeah, this is a cool thread.  No time for a truly deep analysis right now, but my preliminary thought is just this:

Miéville is one of England's most prominent contemporary socialist writers.  He's active in the Socialist Workers Party there and has run for Parliament in that party.  The depth to which his politics penetrate his fiction varies quite a bit (it hits like a ton of bricks in Iron Council) but it's always there.

I don't think The Scar is uniformly nihilistic.  I think, rather, that it's deeply cynical about social structures and the machinations of government, and heavily positive toward political anarchy.  Consider: when Armada was functioning as a libertine piratical state, factionalized and chaotic, it was a happy city on the whole.  Not everyone was happy to be there, but the strong impression was that most people were.  Things didn't start to go wrong until a power imbalance allowed one faction to assume fascistic control of the entire industrial complex, and sent the whole city on a mission -- a Manifest Destiny, if you will -- which nearly destroyed them.  They're saved only by a deus ex machina, a prophetic vision that quickly becomes folklore, and once they overturn their fascists and restore power to the divided factions, the strong impression is that they'll go back to being happy again.  The book is not nihilistic toward the city as a whole, nor its long-term political model.  It's actually quite optimistic about it.

Consider the book's tragic heroine, Bellis Coldwine.  She's portrayed very clearly as a good person who makes bad decisions on bad information.  Her decisions are guided by her patriotism -- specifically, by her patriotism toward the corrupt, despotic, and heavily organized state of New Crobuzon, and her insistence on placing the survival of that city above the individuals around her.  She was willing to lie, manipulate, and (if necessary) kill to protect this institution.  One could argue that anyone might weigh numbers of lives and do what she did, but she wasn't looking at it with that calculus.  She valued the idea of the city, no matter how morally bankrupt she knew it to be, and so she betrayed not just Armada, but the few people close to her.  She's not shown nihilistically -- she's shown as having done the wrong things for the wrong values, and then repenting for them.  (Tanner's a more interesting edge case, being patriotic toward Armada and still making the same decisions Bellis did on the same information, but I don't have the time to analyze everyone right now.)

Uther Doul?  Tool of the fascists.  He's almost single-handedly the "military" half of the military-industrial complex, with the highly symbolic ability to virtually become nothing but a badass sword capable of being everywhere at once.  But he's also shown as being an individual, and when he makes individual decisions to guide others toward supporting the anarchist status quo in Armada, the truth gets out and the city is saved.  Hardly nihilist.

That's a theme that runs through the entire trilogy, really.  Free press and free information.  When people know the whole truth, they make smart decisions.  When the government suppresses the truth, everyone's in danger.  And the government never makes smart decisions when it knows the truth.

In any case -- the story's politically complex, and you may not agree with its politics, but I don't think it's entirely bleak.  Yeah, some good people die for bad reasons, but that's true in almost every dramatic plot.  Not everyone dies, not everyone loses hope, and some of the people who lost their current hope find new hope in different directions. 

If it's the only Bas-Lag book you've read, you might want to try Perdido Street Station as well.  It carries some of the same themes, but it also has a kickass rebel scientist and some of the coolest monsters in fiction.  >8-> 

Iron Council, frankly, was a bit heavy-handed and boring, and I didn't like it nearly as much as the other two.  (And no, in contradiction to an earlier thread on these forums, I didn't think the gay sex scenes in it were a turn-off or overdone.  If anything they were underdescribed.)  >8->
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 07:39:58 PM by SFEley »

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SFEley

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Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 07:43:12 PM
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Mr. Tweedy

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Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 08:29:17 PM
I think you're forgetting a few of the details of the story: Neither Bellis nor Tanner had any intention of betraying Armada.  Silas had thoroughly fooled them, so that they thought that what they were doing was solely to save New Crobuzon from being attacked.  Neither of them had any idea that they were putting Armada in danger, and they were both mortified when it was revealed to them that they had been used by Silas to bring violence to it.  Silas is a universal traitor.  He betrays everyone who gets close to him (indeed, he gets close to people only for the purpose of betraying them), he betrays Armada, and he also betrays New Crobuzon by sending them a Compass instead of the maps.  By the story's end, there is not a single party that does not have good reason to want him on a meat hook.

-------------

I agree with your analysis of the political structure of Armada: It was happiest when it was least organized.  But what of Armada's piratical nature?  Armada existed and survived only by stealing from the other nations of Bas-Lag.  Armada was parasitic.  How do you suppose that figures into the story's political aspects?

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SFEley

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Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 08:53:03 PM
I think you're forgetting a few of the details of the story: Neither Bellis nor Tanner had any intention of betraying Armada.  Silas had thoroughly fooled them, so that they thought that what they were doing was solely to save New Crobuzon from being attacked.

True.  But Tanner knew he had to disobey orders and lie to the leaders he loved, and was deeply uncomfortable with that.  Bellis didn't care whether she betrayed Armada one way or the other, and did betray it to some extent by damaging Krüach Aum's book.  In the mid-term, she's somewhat distraught that "saving New Crobuzon" means helping Armada with its goal of summoning the avanc.


Quote
Silas is a universal traitor.  He betrays everyone who gets close to him (indeed, he gets close to people only for the purpose of betraying them), he betrays Armada, and he also betrays New Crobuzon by sending them a Compass instead of the maps.  By the story's end, there is not a single party that does not have good reason to want him on a meat hook.

Agreed.  Silas is a bastard.  And he's also the single most efficient representative of government and bureaucracy in the story.


Quote
Neither of them had any idea that they were putting Armada in danger, and they were both mortified when it was revealed to them that they had been used by Silas to bring violence to it.

Bellis was only mortified because people died.  She cares about individual lives, not the system of government.  This, I believe, is part of Miéville's moral theme.  (Of which simply having one repudiates nihilism.)


Quote
I agree with your analysis of the political structure of Armada: It was happiest when it was least organized.  But what of Armada's piratical nature?  Armada existed and survived only by stealing from the other nations of Bas-Lag.  Armada was parasitic.  How do you suppose that figures into the story's political aspects?

Robin Hood.  That's what Miéville was celebrating here, I think.  (And he certainly didn't show the society as perfect: consider the captives who didn't buy into their press-ganging and never made it out of jail.) 

You could deflate the myth of Robin Hood by way of criticizing The Scar, and I think that would be valid, but I'm not going to take the time to do it here.  >8->

« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 08:56:51 PM by SFEley »

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Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 05:43:58 PM
I really wish I was qualified to comment on this particular thread re: nihilism, but I'm not.  I never really thought about it.

Parts of Mieville's novels are depressing, yes, but I never really thought of them as nihilistic from my own standpoint, which is to paraphrase someone else, "whatever I point at and say is nihilistic".  The Scar was my favorite Mieville novel (followed by PSS, Un Lun Dun, and Iron Council, in that order), mostly because of the world he built -- Armada, specifically.  I found it to be exceedingly cool.

I'm the kind of person who'll forgo plot and symbolism and literary techniques and whatever you call nihilism (trope? I dunno) if the world and the characters engage me.  Mieville's world and characters always engage me.

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