The Hybrid Car Thread (split from EP088 comments)

[SFEley]

But Prius is the only hybrid to top it's class, and no one makes a hybrid hatchback or wagon yet.

ObNit: The Prius is a hatchback.  >8->



(Source: http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/stephanie.htm)

[Russell Nash]

My big surprise with the Prius was the size.

The arguement was always, "You don't save thet much over a civic." 

The Prius is so much bigger than the civic.  If it had a good-sized station wagon, I'd be able to use it for my family of four with the 40 pound dog.

[dokein]

Yes, I know it has a hatch in the back and it's roomy for a sedan it's size, but 15 cubic feet won't cut it.  My PT Cruiser has 40% more, and more still with seats folded or removed.  That frequently comes in handy for carrying a load of building supplies or a bicycle without disassembly.  Also, I have a 18'9" hand-made wooden sea kayak that I'm not willing to put on anything but a flat roof with wide crossbar spacing.  If I was in the market today, I'd probably get a Pontiac Vibe.  If they introduced a hybrid Matrix/Vibe, I'd be interested even if they had to sacrifice some cargo volume for batteries.

But I do also think that plug-ins are a key next step, and one that Toyota spoiled the market for with their "you never have to plug it in" campaign.

[fiveyearwinter]

Anyone read The Consumerist article on crazy low-mileage drivers? I'd call these guys hybrid hackers.

[ClintMemo]

Anyone read The Consumerist article on crazy low-mileage drivers? I'd call these guys hybrid hackers.

I did read that a while back. That guy is insane.

[Mfitz]

I've had my Prius over a year now and I try hard to be a careful driver, but the best MPG I've ever gotten over the course of a whole tank of gas is 49 MPG.  But, I hit and ran over, a deer when the car was only a month old.  (Yes, the Prius can also be used as the world's first hybrid synergy jerky maker, and boy howdy, don't that smell grand.) One of the casualties was the gas tank which was crushed completely and I'm not sure the fuel usage gages are all working 100% yet despite several repair rounds.  It's an ongoing discussion I'm having with Toyota.

By the way the out side temp has a huge different in the MPG.  In Feb when we had scads of snow and singal digit temps for weeks the MPG was down in the low 30's

[Tango Alpha Delta]

There is one thing I don't get about the argument over hybrid cars:

Why are people arguing so vehemently AGAINST them?

I see lots of people get very upset when I talk about wanting to get one, and they become downright angry as they present all of their arguments. 

"The mileage isn't as good as they promise!"  No, but it is good.
"I NEED an SUV/minivan/other big truck for [insert reason]."  Fine, I'm not asking to ban those.  I just don't need one.
"They'll cost you more than you think."  That's fine; I'm willing to pay more for zero-emissions.
"I HATE THAT LYING AL GORE!!!"

I don't know where these people got the idea that "caring about the environment" is tied to politics, but the people I run into with these strong anti-hybrid feelings tend to react to the statement, "Gee, I'd like to help cut down on pollution" as if they heard the statement, "We want you to become gay, communist, atheists and vote Democrat."

Not that politics is unrelated to this, but I just can't see why anyone would be against the growth of this segment of the economy.  (I'm not fishing to hear conspiracy theories about oil companies and auto-makers using the government to control the minds of the populace through FOX News -- I've already heard that story!  I'm just trying to figure out why common, everyday people who are otherwise "just like me" would have a problem with me buying a Prius.) 

[SFEley]

I've had my Prius over a year now and I try hard to be a careful driver, but the best MPG I've ever gotten over the course of a whole tank of gas is 49 MPG.  But, I hit and ran over, a deer when the car was only a month old.  (Yes, the Prius can also be used as the world's first hybrid synergy jerky maker, and boy howdy, don't that smell grand.) One of the casualties was the gas tank which was crushed completely and I'm not sure the fuel usage gages are all working 100% yet despite several repair rounds.  It's an ongoing discussion I'm having with Toyota.

For what it's worth, 49 MPG is pretty good.  That's pretty close to the best I've had too.  Nobody ever really gets the EPA mileage, especially with hybrids.  The EPA's testing procedures don't accurately reflect normal long-term driving patterns.

By the way the out side temp has a huge different in the MPG.  In Feb when we had scads of snow and singal digit temps for weeks the MPG was down in the low 30's

Yep.  Lots of reasons for that, not least of which is that the air is denser (which increases drag, and lowers your tire pressure.)  Winter fuel formulations also aren't as efficient.

[fiveyearwinter]

I'm a republican, and I really don't want to turn this into a political thread, but I have to say I witness the same thing. Whenever I tell my friends I'm considering getting a hybrid, they (most of them republican) cringe as though I've told them I've bought them a copy of "An Inconvenient Truth." It's sad that the idea that being a conservative is incompatible with saving the environment is seen as truth.

Owners, tell us more about the nerd factor on the Prius! What's this I hear about laser guns and neural gelpacks and AI and bioelectric fields? Can I really get 3,000 MPG on a tank of garbage? DOES IT TIME TRAVEL?!


[/crazy]

[SFEley]

DOES IT TIME TRAVEL?!

Yes.  Forward.  >8->

[fiveyearwinter]

neat! 

[Tango Alpha Delta]

I'm a republican, and I really don't want to turn this into a political thread, but I have to say I witness the same thing. Whenever I tell my friends I'm considering getting a hybrid, they (most of them republican) cringe as though I've told them I've bought them a copy of "An Inconvenient Truth." It's sad that the idea that being a conservative is incompatible with saving the environment is seen as truth.

Yeah, that's what I see, in general.  It makes me sad that every issue seems to come pre-packaged and pre-stamped with the Seal of Approval/Disapproval from a party platform. 

I drive a Kia (Note: it is not supposed to resemble "K.I.A.", but...), and we haul the brood around in a minivan.  I would LOVE to bike to work, but it's 30 miles, and through a tunnel.  (Or down Route 1 through downtown Baltimore -- YOU look up the crime stats!)  So for me, moving to something zero-emission makes sense.  I would feel like I'm balancing things out a little bit.  Then when I see one skinny chick on a cell phone in her H3, I can at least concentrate on hating her for not waiting to get home before discussing the ins & outs of American Idol instead of wasting energy worrying about her mileage! 

[SFEley]

Then when I see one skinny chick on a cell phone in her H3, I can at least concentrate on hating her for not waiting to get home before discussing the ins & outs of American Idol instead of wasting energy worrying about her mileage! 

Heh.  The H3s aren't so bad in my opinion.  It's the H2s I can't stand.  I have the typical irresistable reflex every time I see one.

[Mfitz]

My across the street neighbor has a Hummer.  When I park next to it I feel all righteous in a beauty and the beast way.

[fiveyearwinter]

I'm moving to Philadelphia in two weeks, and I'm buying a bike to get me around. Frankly, there is nothing like the thrill of riding a bicycle in traffic. It definitely makes you feel eco-friendly (and like a sitting duck).

[ClintMemo]

Ok,  so it's been over a year (but only one page) since I posted in this thread.  Since that time, gas has gone from $3/gal to $4/gal and my now 11 year old car's mileage went down a bit and needed a few more minor repairs.  I decided it was time to ditch it and move on. About a month ago, I bought a Honda Fit.  I'm averaging about 33mpg (combination of city and highway). My driving is mostly suburban - a set of stop lights every 2 - 3 miles. 

I looked at a few cars and narrowed down my choice to either the Fit or the Prius.  I actually liked the Prius better. It was larger and got better mileage but, I couldn't justify the extra $8000 in price, and more importantly, my wife hated driving it.  She said she could have gotten used to the dashboard and not shifting but the one thing she couldn't get past was the back windshield.  She hated having the split across the back.

The paypack on my Fit was about a year sooner than the Prius.  I think my current calculation for payback on the Fit is about 6 years. However, since we bought it, we drive it MUCH more often that her car, so the payback should be even sooner than I calculated. 

[wintermute]

[wintermute]

So, I lived in London until I was 30, and then I moved to Cincinnati.

I never even bothered taking driving lessons until I knew I was going to move; public transport (or shank's pony) was always great to get me where I was going. When I bought a car over here, I looked at hybrids, but the Nissan dealer didn't have a Prius in stock, no any idea when they would, so I couldn't test drive one, and most other hybrids didn't seem to get any better mileage than the manual transmission versions.

So I ended up getting a Honda Accord, which gets me a little over 29mpg, which isn't so bad. For my next car (which probably won't be for a few years, yet) I'll definitely be looking at hybrids again. By then, the technology should be significantly more mature.

[stePH]

By the way the out side temp has a huge different in the MPG.  In Feb when we had scads of snow and singal digit temps for weeks the MPG was down in the low 30's

Yep.  Lots of reasons for that, not least of which is that the air is denser (which increases drag, and lowers your tire pressure.)  Winter fuel formulations also aren't as efficient.

Furthermore, batteries don't work very well when they're cold, so I'd bet the IC engine has to work overtime to compensate.

[Ocicat]

Furthermore, batteries don't work very well when they're cold, so I'd bet the IC engine has to work overtime to compensate.

This is true.  My prius gets about 35 MPG in the winter, and upwards of 50 in the summer.  My milage isn't helped by most my commute being up a hill, or by the fact that I'm a pretty aggressive driver.  But those factors pale in comparison to the weather...

[Heradel]

Furthermore, batteries don't work very well when they're cold, so I'd bet the IC engine has to work overtime to compensate.

This is true.  My prius gets about 35 MPG in the winter, and upwards of 50 in the summer.  My milage isn't helped by most my commute being up a hill, or by the fact that I'm a pretty aggressive driver.  But those factors pale in comparison to the weather...

As with all things, some take this a bit more seriously.

[Tango Alpha Delta]

... but the Nissan dealer didn't have a Prius in stock, no any idea when they would, so I couldn't test drive one...

<windup>Perhaps you should have checked at a Toyota dealer?</windup>

[stePH]

... but the Nissan dealer didn't have a Prius in stock, no any idea when they would, so I couldn't test drive one...

<windup>Perhaps you should have checked at a Toyota dealer?</windup>

LOL!    Can't believe I missed that one, or I'd have suggested the same thing. 

[wintermute]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tango Alpha Delta]

Yeah, yeah.

I'm in for it now... I better make sure I profread my psots a few dozen times from now on....   

But you reminded me of the report I read about Nissan's electric car efforts; the Mixim is supposed to come out in 2010, and they unveiled the Pivo recently.  (Should I be worried that "Pivo" (Пиво) is the Russian word for "beer"?)