UK Ban on Samurai swords

[FNH]

Your wrong.  It's a step in the right direction. 

They passed laws banning guns, not a waste of time. 

They passed laws banning knives, not a waste of time.

They passed laws regarding safety on building sites, not  a waste of time.

They spent time making a legal requirement to have cars MOT'd so that they are safer.  Not a waste of time.

They ban glass drinking vessels in some locations to stop the glass being used as weapons.  Not a waste of time.

It is not a waste of time.  Lives are worth the time.

If you think there are more urgent things that kill more people, then write to your MP, but dont throw up your hands and say it's all a waste of time. 

[Planish]

Speaking as a Warranted Rapier Marshal-at-Large for the Kingdom of the East, they'll get my rapier (and main-gauche) when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

(Only half of those really belong to me and my wife.)

(I dare say the archery blunts taped to the tips and the lack of a true edge will help me out.)

First, all of these idiots running around thinking they're a ninja.  We've already had someone link to a list of idiots with katanas stories.

Ah yes... That would be this link: http://www.thearma.org/essays/Fringe.htm
It never gets old.  
Based on those stories, it would seem that wall-hanger katanas do seem to attract a certain type of character, so I'm more inclined to see the law as a kind of "social profiling". OTOH, it could just be the relative cheapness and availability of that particular type of word (compared to, say, military sabre, or a Norman longsword) that inflates the percentage of crimes involving katanas.

That same site also has an interesting article on whether or not it's possible to determine what constitutes a "real" sword, as opposed to a wall-hanger. See http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/heymr.htm
Who's to say that a modern reproduction of a vintage katana is not itself a "real" katana? Does it have to have been be made in Japan? What if it was made in Japan, but had only a crappy cast metal blade? What if it was a high-quality blade forged by a recognised master bladesmith, but he made it in his shop in Singapore? Does it have to have been made a certain number of years ago? If so, would a modern blade by a Japanese master bladesmith forged for the Emperor's dress uniform not qualify?

How about a plastic katana? They've banned (or at least controlled the sale of) plastic replicas of guns.

Wasn't there also something a few months ago about the U.K. banning the sale (to anybody) of kitchen knives with a pointy tip, longer that something like 4 or 6 inches?

Swords in the possession of youths? Well, check out this bunch of vicious thugs:

Wearing their gang colours and flashing gang signs.

Finally, a bit of Filk that touches on urban violence:

 I'll See Your Six!
Ioseph of Locksley
(c) copyright 1993 W.J. Bethancourt III

TTTO: The Sleeping Scotsman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 A lovely lady went one night to a revel in the East
 With dancing and with singing, with wine and Roasted Beast
 When the revel came unto an end, she started out for home
 Wrapped well in her woolen cloak, and walking all alone.

 CHORUS: The things you will run into, the people that you meet
         Walking all alone upon a New York City street!

 Now, New York City's not a place for walking in the dark
 Not in the streets and alleys and especially not the Park
 But off she went most happily, without a single care
 Wrapped up in her woolen cloak, all in the midnight air.

 A street-tough jumped in front of her, with three friends in the night
 And pulled a six-inch switchblade, that glittered in the light
 He waved it underneath her nose, and said with fiendish glee:
 "Give me all your money, girl, this is a robbery!"

 She gazed upon the switchblade, and smiled a happy smile
 Said "Boy, you ain't got any brains, and lack a sense of style!
 You're standing where I want to walk, please move out of my way!"
 The tough said "Girl, I'll cut you, and rob you anyway!"

 All wrapped up in her woolen cloak, her garb was quite unseen
 Her hands were hidden out of sight, and so was chain-mail's gleam...
 She said "Now, go rob someone else, my money stays with me!"
 He said, "I'll take your money with my six-inch snickersnee!"

 The lady's smile got bigger, the robber took a swing
 The chain-mail took the blow; the lady didn't feel a thing!
 She pulled a Kirby broadsword, the robber's soul to shrive,
 And grinned and said, "I'll see your six, and raise you thirty-five!"

 The bandit gazed upon the sword, and then upon his knife
 He turned and ran, with his three friends, a-running for his life!
 Don't think a lady's easy, don't think she's helpless prey,
 Especially if she is a fighter in the SCA!

 Now if you don't believe my song, then ask the lady fair
 With Cheshire Cat upon her shield, a blazon very rare:
 Sir Trude is her name, me lads, if she should pass your way;
 The very first of the Lady Knights within the SCA!

Supposedly based on a true story about Countess Sir Trude Lacklandia, but seems more to be one of those urban legends floating around in the Society, like the apocryphal "Blood for Odin!" story.

[Planish]

Oh yeah. It looks like bat'leths are right out.

Lethal Star Trek blade seized in knives amnesty



"The blade is believed to be a stainless-steel copy of a Klingon weapon used in the science fiction series Star Trek"
Oh. What was their first clue?

[Russell Nash]

Before I come back and criticize again, I do want to say I'm in full agreement on a ban to carry these things.

[Thaurismunths]

Your wrong.  It's a step in the right direction. 
They passed laws banning guns, not a waste of time. 
They passed laws banning knives, not a waste of time.
They passed laws regarding safety on building sites, not  a waste of time.
They spent time making a legal requirement to have cars MOT'd so that they are safer.  Not a waste of time.
They ban glass drinking vessels in some locations to stop the glass being used as weapons.  Not a waste of time.
It is not a waste of time.  Lives are worth the time.
If you think there are more urgent things that kill more people, then write to your MP, but dont throw up your hands and say it's all a waste of time. 

I sit somewhere between you and Russell on this.
I agree that legislation can be levied effectively against either wide-spread hazards (drinking and driving) or point-source dangers (banning weapons on airplanes). If replica "ninja-style swords" are a real threat, and simply banning them will prevent even one death a year than it's worth it. Unfortunately baning a style of sword won't prevent a death, it will only change the weapon used.
At what level does personal responsibility come in? (I don't mean this to be inflammatory, I'm actually curious)

[Tango Alpha Delta]

(Man, I wish I had been online last week....)


A couple of belated thoughts:

1) "American condescension" - Simon* cited the UK's wonderfully "low" murder rate, and rightly pointed out the common U.S. un-familiarity with the inner workings of Parliament.  I also recall during my 3 years in the UK that there was a drive-by in Nottingham (3 teenagers with an illlegal AK-47 strafed a police station), an axe murder in my village (Digby, Lincolnshire), and a school shooting in Scotland... all of which landed Columbine on the front pages of UK papers.  Yes... they reported UK tragedies within articles about a famous U.S. shooting.

And my favorite Moment of Condescension was when a female MP spoke out against allowing "self-defence" to be used as argument to acquit a man who had shot two knife-wielding teenagers who had broken into his bedroom.  (He had used a legal shotgun loaded with legal bird shot.)  Her words: "If we allow 'self-defence' as legal defence for murder, then we risk descending into the kind of chaos seen in Kosovo."   Yeah... or Texas.

2) "Drunken accidents" - Several people blamed the weapons for the drunken oafery that led to some of the example deaths.  Rather than blame the weapons (which are inert without drunken oafs to wield them), why not ban drunken oafs?  Full disclosure: I don't keep certain weapons in my home because men in my family tend to be accident prone, even when stone sober.  But I do keep beer. 

3) On the other hand, I mentioned to one of my former co-workers that I don't own a fire arm, and he angrily told me I was violating the 2nd Amendment.  Twat.

*Not trying to contradict Simon, just sharing some examples of how condescension works both ways.  And emphasizing that "low murder rate" is nowhere near the same thing as "no killin´".

[Simon]

I was wrong.

Stupid British government.

[wintermute]

I am of the camp that people do not need to be carrying this kind of weapon around, but this clearly goes too far.

A few years ago, combat knives were banned on the grounds that they had no utility beyond stabbing people and were responsible for X number of attacks every year. Which is all well and good but no-one ever said "Man, I'd really like to stab that guy, but I just can't get hold of an appropriately themed knife. Might as well call the whole think off." For the record, the vast majority of knife-attacks in the UK (and probably everywhere outside of a warzone) involve common household breadknives. Most of these are domestic crimes of passion rather than premeditated muggings or gang warfare. Stanley knives (boxcutters) are also a favourite weapon, and are required tools in a score of trades, making it very hard to ban people from carrying them, let alone owning them.

Summary: Banning katanas will probably prevent people getting stabbed with katanas, but will almost certainly not reduce the total number of stabbings.

As a rule, these steps by ban weapons are often reactionary and poorly thought out. As an example, consider the Dunblane Massacre of 1996. At the time, British Law stated that, in order to hold a handgun licence, you had to be a member of a gun club in good standing. Hamilton had applied to every gun club within 50 miles of home, anf they all turned him down because they didn't think he should be allowed anywhere near a gun. And yet, when he applied for a handgun licence, the Home Office was more than happy to grant him one. Rather than tighten up their procedures to make sure that applications were vetted more closely in future, the government decided to outlaw a whole raft of gun types, meaning that the police were no longer tracking who bought or sold them. I cannot believe that this legislation did anything to reduce the risks of another serious incident happening.

[Heradel]

Summary: Banning katanas will probably prevent people getting stabbed with katanas, but will almost certainly not reduce the total number of stabbings.

I'd counter by saying that a Katana probably has quite a higher lethality than your common bread knife. My own common bread knife had quite a bit of trouble with a roll last night, so~

[Russell Nash]

Summary: Banning katanas will probably prevent people getting stabbed with katanas, but will almost certainly not reduce the total number of stabbings.

I'd counter by saying that a Katana probably has quite a higher lethality than your common bread knife. My own common bread knife had quite a bit of trouble with a roll last night, so~

I didn't tell my wife that I had just sharpened ours and she nearly cut her hand in half.

[Heradel]

Summary: Banning katanas will probably prevent people getting stabbed with katanas, but will almost certainly not reduce the total number of stabbings.

I'd counter by saying that a Katana probably has quite a higher lethality than your common bread knife. My own common bread knife had quite a bit of trouble with a roll last night, so~

I didn't tell my wife that I had just sharpened ours and she nearly cut her hand in half.

I just realized it was bread knife (serrated, long) and not butter knife, which I was thinking of. D'oh.

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

[wintermute]

Ohhhh.... Bagel bagel bagel
I made it out of wheat
And when it's dry and ready
Oh bagel I will eat! Hey!

(Yes, I am far too easily amused.)

[Tango Alpha Delta]

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

Oh, please do tell...

[Russell Nash]

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

Oh, please do tell...

Sounds a lot like the one about the girl, the cat, and the peanut butter.

[Heradel]

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

Oh, please do tell...

It's really not as good as it's constituents. Basically, I was cutting a bagel, the dog saw a squirrel, bumped me on it's way to the glass back door, and I found myself with a gash on my left palm. I can actually still see the places where the stitches went in.

[Russell Nash]

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

Oh, please do tell...

It's really not as good as it's constituents. Basically, I was cutting a bagel, the dog saw a squirrel, bumped me on it's way to the glass back door, and I found myself with a gash on my left palm. I can actually still see the places where the stitches went in.

So it's nothing like the one about the girl, the cat, and the peanut butter.

[Tango Alpha Delta]

I still have an inch long scar on my hand from an unfortunate incident involving a bagel, a dog, and a squirrel.

Oh, please do tell...

It's really not as good as it's constituents. Basically, I was cutting a bagel, the dog saw a squirrel, bumped me on it's way to the glass back door, and I found myself with a gash on my left palm. I can actually still see the places where the stitches went in.

You're right... not very entertaining.  I'll give you 20 minutes to try again. 

[Heradel]

It's really not as good as it's constituents. Basically, I was cutting a bagel, the dog saw a squirrel, bumped me on it's way to the glass back door, and I found myself with a gash on my left palm. I can actually still see the places where the stitches went in.

So it's nothing like the one about the girl, the cat, and the peanut butter.

I haven't heard that one.

You're right... not very entertaining.  I'll give you 20 minutes to try again. 

Well, I did leave out the part about the squirrel being a radioactive zombie squirrel, the dog being Krypto, and the blood coming out of the cut the subtle knife made somehow being Cylon-Human cord blood.

[Tango Alpha Delta]

You're right... not very entertaining.  I'll give you 20 minutes to try again. 

Well, I did leave out the part about the squirrel being a radioactive zombie squirrel, the dog being Krypto, and the blood coming out of the cut the subtle knife made somehow being Cylon-Human cord blood.

Oooo... Steve!  There's the next EP Flash piece!  (I knew you could do it!)

[Thaurismunths]

So it's nothing like the one about the girl, the cat, and the peanut butter.

I heard it was a dog. I don't think cats like peanut butter.

[Russell Nash]

So it's nothing like the one about the girl, the cat, and the peanut butter.

I heard it was a dog. I don't think cats like peanut butter.

That was a different one.

[oddpod]

i heard it was a guy

[stePH]

i heard it was a guy

I heard he was a giant chicken!