Author Topic: Intros ~vs~ Outros (Read 22275 times)

crowne_realty · **on:** May 20, 2008, 03:34:28 PM

hihi,

Here is my vote in favor of keeping Steve's insights, personal revelations, and artful segways in the beginning of each broadcast/show. His slight ramblings makes the show seem more accessible, more individual and friendly. I like the feedback/highlight reel being at the end of each show. But, the progression from robot announcer to commercial to story feels abrupt and sqaurewavey. If I have to suffer through a (granted they are brief) advert for Audible or volkswagen or bank of america, at least temper it with humanity and insight, please. Especially since its what i've been conditioned to expect from ep.
Maybe there are other obligations preventing the intros from being what they once were a few short weeks ago, and that's understandable. But I really hope the traditional form stays around. I like it.

thanks,

cr-

qwints · **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2008, 03:50:27 PM

Keep the editorial content, but I don't mind where it goes in the show.

Darwinist · **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2008, 04:34:16 PM

Not a big deal to me, but I like the format the way it is. I'm in the "why tamper with success" camp.

wintermute · **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2008, 04:40:36 PM

Rather than re-hash it, I'll just link to my comments in the other thread.

birdless · **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2008, 06:03:55 PM

Good idea, Winter. Mine was buried at the end of the comments on the story, so I'll just quote myself.

Quote from: birdless on May 19, 2008, 02:22:45 PM

I'm new enough to remember my take on it when I first became a listener to now. When I first started listening, it was just to hear a story, so I was less interested in the intro and usually skipped the outro altogether. However, as I listened to the intros more, and the feedback caught up with the stories I was familiar with, I became more interested in both, and I eventually joined the discussion on the forums. Now it's become more of "being part of a community" than "listening to a story," and there've been a couple of times I've actually skipped ahead to listen to the feedback first. All that to say, I'm okay with however you decide to format the intros and outros, as long as you don't leave out anything you currently use now.

eytanz · **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2008, 07:32:20 PM

Here are my comments from the other thread:

Quote

And I'd like to echo DKT's comments - EP's intros never bothered me, and this became very clear to me when I started hearing Podcastle's intros which do bother me. Steve has always been careful not to spoil stories and I always enjoy what he says, so I don't care if it comes before or after stories. In Podcastle, I want to hear what Rachel says but I want to hear it after the story, not before.

stePH · **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2008, 08:13:48 PM

One thing that stands out for me about Escape Pod's intros is how natural and unforced Steve's monologue sounds. He sounds like he's just talking to some friends. Rick Stringer on Variant Frequencies is almost as good, but Rachel sounds like she's obviously reading a script (though I'm sure she'll improve), and I've already gone on at length elsewhere about what I think of the hosts of Clonepod. $:-\$

DKT · **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2008, 08:14:11 PM

Here is what eytanz agreed with.

Quote

I'm good either way you go, really, but I have never had a problem with the intros here. In fact, I'd go as far to say as there something that immediately hooked me into the podcast initially. I appreciate hearing what Steve has to say. It's different than some of the Podcastle intros that have frustrated me a bit because Steve isn't telling me what the story is about, or important things to note about the setting/author before the story begins. (If it sounds like I'm being harsh, that's not what I intend. I love Podcastle already, and I think what Rachel is doing over there is great. I just don't think the intros have hit their stride yet.) When Steve does an intro on Escape Pod, I feel like I'm listening to a friend tell me about something interesting and, oh, by the way, there's this really cool story that kind of ties into it. Or, in the case of geek dad intros, sometimes doesn't tie into it Wink

That said, I think the way Alasdair does the Pseudopod outros is perfect for Pseudopod, and perfect for Alasdair.

Hey, everyone else is doing it

DKT · **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2008, 08:15:36 PM

Quote from: stePH on May 20, 2008, 08:13:48 PM

Rachel sounds like she's obviously reading a script (though I'm sure she'll improve)

I don't have any problems with Rachel or Anne or any of the other hosts reading a script. If it was me, I'd definitely be reading a script. And I agree that I think the PC intros will improve. (Actually, I think they already are.) It's just going to take a little time for them to hit their stride.

CGFxColONeill · **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2008, 01:12:16 AM

have not really listened to much in the way of other weekly podcasts ( have dabbled in PC a bit but have not become a " regular" yet)
but I love the intros and I think they should stay the way they have been

Thaurismunths · **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2008, 03:52:00 PM

I like EP's original format, and I've been listening to it for a while now.
First off, it's familiar. Every week we hear the sexy cyborg title the piece, Steve relates a bit of his life, introduces the story and author, then hands our attention over to the storyteller of the week. After about half an hour of fiction we get a few moments pause, some closing comments and we're strummed out by the soothing tones of Monster Surf Rock. The format has changed recently to include feedback and sponsor support (I try not to think of them as commercials), but the feedback adds to the community and the support keeps the EA empire afloat so these can't be bad things.
Secondly, it works. At the end of a story I like having a few moments to collect my thoughts or discuss the story with Shwankie (we often listen together). Each episode tapering off with closing thoughts, and a brief moment of though provoking feedback, it doesn't interrupt my train of thought or upset the mood. Cutting right to the story, then trying to hold our attention afterwards is going to be difficult, especially if Steve's done his job well and presented a particularly evocative tale.
Lastly, I subscribe. I'm a supporting part of this community, both in the forums (for better or worse) and financially. I'm subscribed because I like what EP does and because I feel a connection to EA through Steve and the community he represents. I'm probably not the only one who feels like they're 'friends' with Steve because of his intros, and that supporting EA isn't about buying units of a commodity but supporting a friend who is doing something really cool. I'd hate to see the 'friend' aspect put second so that strangers might feel more comfortable to download and thoughtlessly chew through the archives.
(I'm not saying everyone should listen to all of the out-dated intros, that's what the fast-forward is for.)

birdless · **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2008, 05:25:27 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on May 21, 2008, 03:52:00 PM

I'm probably not the only one who feels like they're 'friends' with Steve because of his intros… I'd hate to see the 'friend' aspect put second so that strangers might feel more comfortable to download and thoughtlessly chew through the archives.

These lines from Thaur resonated enough with me to post "Seconded."
So…
Seconded.

<edited to say:>
Also, I listen to quite a number of podcasts, from fiction to documentary to educational to science-y to fandom, and, though it hasn't really occurred to me before now, apparently Steve has a gift with the "introing" and "outroing." Out of the dozens or so podcasts I subscribe to, this is the forum to which I'm most dedicated, indeed one of the very few that I participate in at all. Most of the fiction podcasts don't have any sort of intro, they just launch into the story, and maybe have a podcast scattered here and there dedicated to "Metachat." That works for me, but, on the other hand, I'm not part of a community in those podcasts. I just listen to the story/stories. Even the few that do have intros and outros aren't agile or interesting enough to make me emotionally attached enough to want to be part of any community that may be established to discuss the podcast. I think a large part of that is that they lack the personal, "talking to a friend" quality Steve puts into his intros, and they often lack any sort of feedback from listeners read on the show.

cuddlebug · **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2008, 05:39:49 PM

Quote from: birdless on May 21, 2008, 05:25:27 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on May 21, 2008, 03:52:00 PM
I'm probably not the only one who feels like they're 'friends' with Steve because of his intros… I'd hate to see the 'friend' aspect put second so that strangers might feel more comfortable to download and thoughtlessly chew through the archives.
These lines from Thaur resonated enough with me to post "Seconded."
So…
Seconded.

... and who's to say these strangers might not become friends BECAUSE of Steve's intro. I was one of those strangers until recently and now I feel as if I knew Steve personally. So anyone who wants to thoughtlessly chew through the stories ... (are there really many listeners who can't bear to hear a few minutes which are unrelated to the story itself? Isn't that quite common on many podcasts? Tony C. Smith does it and I can think of a few others

... well, listeners who want the literature 'pure and untainted' by personal insight can just forward and ignore the intro. That should not be too difficult?

We can always have a poll and let that decide. Put one on the website, mention it in one of the intros and ask listeners to vote, they won't even have to join the forum for that. And those who are really bothered WILL vote and if they don't, they don't care enough.

So ...
thirded.

birdless · **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2008, 05:48:33 PM

Quote from: cuddlebug on May 21, 2008, 05:39:49 PM

... and who's to say these strangers might not become friends BECAUSE of Steve's intro. I was one of those strangers until recently and now I feel as if I knew Steve personally. So anyone who wants to thoughtlessly chew through the stories ... (are there really many listeners who can't bear to hear a few minutes which are unrelated to the story itself? Isn't that quite common on many podcasts? Tony C. Smith does it and I can think of a few others ... well, listeners who want the literature 'pure and untainted' by personal insight can just forward and ignore the intro. That should not be too difficult?

I thought about suggesting adding chapters to the podcast, but if there had been chapters, I would have probably always skipped the intros and outros, and thus been robbed of becoming part of a community that I really love being a part of (hopefully there aren't too many out there thinking, "Damn, Steve, why didn't you have chapters??"). So, not that it's been put to a vote, but I vote for no chapters. While it may add convenience, I think it would ultimately hurt the growth of the community.

wintermute · **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2008, 05:59:21 PM

Quote from: birdless on May 21, 2008, 05:48:33 PM

I thought about suggesting adding chapters to the podcast...

Gah. No, no, no. No chapters. Ever.

Adding in chapters means recording it in mp4 rather than mp3, which means that I'd have to transcode it back to mp3 before I could listen to it. Frankly, that's more effort than I want to go to on a weekly basis, and it would probably mean that I give up on EP, like I did on Quackcast, before they launched their mp3 option.

OK, let me modify my stance slightly: Make sure there's always an mp3 version available that will be usable by everyone, regardless of what they listen on. Assuming that everyone has an iPod is just going to alienate people. But, so long as that mp3 version is available and no harder to get than it currently is, there's no reason why it couldn't also be released in mp4 with chapter marks, for those that desire such a thing. Or in Speex for the few who can handle that.

Just never, never, never lose the mp3 version, or you'll lose listeners.

birdless · **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2008, 06:04:40 PM

There's only one podcast I listen to that has chapters, and they offer it in both formats. But regardless, I vote "no chapters," anyway.

sirana · **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2008, 06:39:23 PM

I agree with everything wintermute said in his comment.
I personally like the personal bits in the intro, but it might be that there are a lot of people who just want to listen to the story and dont care about the personal bits.

Also: NO to chapters!

milo · **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2008, 10:30:00 PM

I’m strongly in favor of keeping Escape Pod just the way it is. I quite enjoy Steve’s intros, and I think that they should come before the story. Analog magazine sets a good precedence for this with Stanley Schmidt’s editorials. I often enjoy Mr. Schmidt’s commentary on society and science fiction more than some of the stories, and I can say the same for Steve’s intros. Escape Pod is, after all, a podcast magazine, and it makes perfect sense to lead out with an editorial as print journals often do. Furthermore, mp3 players have a fast forward button, and those who don’t like the editorial can simply skip ahead by about three minutes.

Even if my preferences are in the minority, I implore Steve to continue giving us his insights into storytelling and stories from his own life, even if they come after the main attraction. One of the things that elevates Escape Pod from good to being truly great is the personal touch that Steve brings to each episode.

zZzacha · **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2008, 11:02:14 AM

I'm so glad most listeners have the same thought about the intros and outros as I do: they're great, so keep them the way they are! I agree with stePH: it really does sound like Steve is just talking to some friends, that's what got me hooked in the first place. It gives the podcast a nice intimacy and I really look forward to the next episode, to listen how our EscapePod friend is doing!

Love the format!

Rain · **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2008, 03:24:08 PM

Slightly off topic, but am i the only one who cant stand the computer voice at the start of each episode? It sounds like something i could make with my old Amiga and it gives a really cheesy and low budget impression of the podcast.

I prefer Escape Pod to keep the format it has had from the start, with the long introes, but its not a huge problem if it changes

wintermute · **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2008, 03:34:04 PM

I think the robot voice fits well with the science-fiction theme. It's a touch of retro-class.

KSeuss · **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2008, 06:32:52 AM

Maybe this is just my perception, but whether or not the outros have actually been shorter, they seem shorter. This may be because my mind associates the end of the story with the climax of the podcast with the feedback and quote serving as denouement and by that point my thought processes are shutting down.
I strongly prefer keeping Steve's commentary up front where it can (and often has) increased my anticipation for the story without giving anything away. As several others have said already, the intros feel natural; they have a flow. This, in my opinion, adds to the flow of the podcast as a whole. I certainly wouldn't stop listening over a format switch, but I'd hate to see it change.

JoeFitz · **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2008, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: stePH on May 20, 2008, 08:13:48 PM

One thing that stands out for me about Escape Pod's intros is how natural and unforced Steve's monologue sounds. He sounds like he's just talking to some friends.

Ditto. Please don't change the format!

Windup · **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2008, 02:40:52 AM

Quote from: Rain on May 23, 2008, 03:24:08 PM

Slightly off topic, but am i the only one who cant stand the computer voice at the start of each episode? It sounds like something i could make with my old Amiga and it gives a really cheesy and low budget impression of the podcast.

I don't know if you're the only one who doesn't like it, but I know that I do. I think it gives a funny, retro feel that I like.

"That's what makes for horse races," and all that...

nannsbet · **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2008, 10:13:18 PM

so never having felt the need to express my self regarding escape pod and its structure (thoroughly enjoying it to no end), i feel i must set down some type. i agree that i have really come to enjoy the commentary at the beginning. the personal insight and the segways really set the mood, like a good quote or a bit of poetry before a story. this gives such a personal feel and i hope they will resume. i feel like i just had a really good friend move really far away now that there is only the author intro, and by the end of the story i'm not as keen to listen being busy processing the story in my own head and what it made me feel. bring back the personality and unique tone of escape pod, please.