Indiana Jones & tKotCS Review

[birdless]

This is just a review. Other than my critique of the script and the actors, there're no spoilers.

Well, it was a weird combination of disappointment and enjoyment. It felt like Ford had forgotten who Indy was, and it seemed like the script writer/s had seen TLC, but had only heard about the other two from a friend. The pacing was off compared to the other three, and they deviated from the formula too much (normally I don't like formula, but it works for the IJ movies). Even the music seemed like it was composed by John Williams's assistant, like it just wasn't quite authentic. Actually, that's a great way to describe the whole movie: it just lacked a certain authenticity.

In spite of that, I did enjoy it... Part of that could be chalked up to sentimentality and nostalgia, but either way, I had fun.

[zZzacha]

1. Happy [belated] Birthday birdless!

2. I hate starting a new thread and not getting any responses. It's like offering a handshake no one returns. So...

3. I haven't the movie, so I can't really contribute to this discussion, but see #2. Wink

You may have noticed some copy-paste work going on here... I had to do it and wish you a happy birthday, because I didn't like that I forgot to do so yesterday.
Anyway, I haven't seen the movie. I was thinking the same thing you remarked though: I was afraid the movie wouldn't bring the authentic Indie experience we once knew and loved... And you confirmed just that. But I'm willing to give it a try, for old time's sake!

[birdless]

LoL! That cracked me up, zZz!!

And thanks heaps!!

<edit: typo>

[DKT]

Oh, Birdless, sorry you didn't have more fun.  So how would you rate it compared the rest of the movies?  #4?  #3?

[birdless]

It would definitely place last in ranking the four movies from best to worst. Like I said, I still had fun and enjoyed the movie, but my expectations were pretty high, maybe too high.

I think my wife nailed it when she said it was like they felt like they were running out of time: "Look, we've been trying to hammer down this script for 10 years now! Here: just take this script and sign Harrison and get this damn movie made before it's too late!"

[DKT]

I think my wife nailed it when she said it was like they felt like they were running out of time: "Look, we've been trying to hammer down this script for 10 years now! Here: just take this script and sign Harrison and get this damn movie made before it's too late!"

I haven't seen the movie, but I've been following "the making of it" for the last 15 years or so (back when they were talking about getting Tom Selleck to play Indy's brother).  Apparently, in the last couple years, there were a bunch of screenwriters (including Frank Darabont) who wrote Indiana Jones 4 scripts.  Actually, the Darabont script seemed like it was going to be "a go."  Both Harrison Ford and Steven Spielberg liked it, but for some unknown reason, Lucas vetoed it.  Then Spielberg brought in David Koepp (who's written a lot of movies, some good -- Stir Of Echoes; some bad -- The Lost World).  Apparently, instead of coming up with a brand new script, Koepp kind of cannibalized a bunch of the stuff that other scriptwriters had come up with (apparently, a lot of Darabont's script) and tried to patch it together.  Which leads me to think in the end, your wife's pretty close to the mark.  So much time had gone by that they just wanted to GET IT DONE.

I'm still really looking forward to seeing the movie, but I'm going in with low expectations and expecting it to be the least of the Indy movies.

[stePH]

I think my wife nailed it when she said it was like they felt like they were running out of time: "Look, we've been trying to hammer down this script for 10 years now! Here: just take this script and sign Harrison and get this damn movie made before it's too late!"

They should have called it Raiders of the Lost AARP 

[Alasdair5000]

1. Happy [belated] Birthday birdless!

2. I hate starting a new thread and not getting any responses. It's like offering a handshake no one returns. So...

3. I haven't the movie, so I can't really contribute to this discussion, but see #2. Wink

You may have noticed some copy-paste work going on here... I had to do it and wish you a happy birthday, because I didn't like that I forgot to do so yesterday.
Anyway, I haven't seen the movie. I was thinking the same thing you remarked though: I was afraid the movie wouldn't bring the authentic Indie experience we once knew and loved... And you confirmed just that. But I'm willing to give it a try, for old time's sake!

Hi Birdless,

Really sorry you didn't enjoy it, and there are definitely things in there that didn't work for me.  I have to say though, I had a really fun night out seeing it.

If it's any consolation, I do now feel a little guilty about that:) 

[Tango Alpha Delta]

1. Happy [belated] Birthday birdless!

2. I hate starting a new thread and not getting any responses. It's like offering a handshake no one returns. So...

3. I haven't the movie, so I can't really contribute to this discussion, but see #2. Wink

You may have noticed some copy-paste work going on here... I had to do it and wish you a happy birthday, because I didn't like that I forgot to do so yesterday.
Anyway, I haven't seen the movie. I was thinking the same thing you remarked though: I was afraid the movie wouldn't bring the authentic Indie experience we once knew and loved... And you confirmed just that. But I'm willing to give it a try, for old time's sake!

Hi Birdless,

Really sorry you didn't enjoy it, and there are definitely things in there that didn't work for me.  I have to say though, I had a really fun night out seeing it.

If it's any consolation, I do now feel a little guilty about that:) 

I had fun, too.  I laughed when I was supposed to, and managed not to groan too loudly at the bits that were supposed to be not-groaned-at; but when I told my wife it was "okay", she made a ridiculously exaggerated pun on the phrase "damning with faint praise".  (I won't tell you what she substituted for the word "damning", but I will tell you that she's quite saucy and occasionally writes erotica.)

I don't want to give away any of the so-called spoilers, so I'll just declare George Lucas to be the SUPREME MASTER OF THE PAINFULLY OBVIOUS, and ask that he please not make any more movies.  Ever.  Because I'm too much of a sucker/geek/completist to not go see them, and they are at best, mildly painful to sit through with one's brain still switched on.  (I would have switched it off, but our office declared it a "team-building" exercise, and we all went together.  So, I was paid to watch it.  w00t!)

[birdless]

In spite of that, I did enjoy it... Part of that could be chalked up to sentimentality and nostalgia, but either way, I had fun.

Just to make sure my point there gets heard, too! I did have fun, and in spite of what I said in my critique I did enjoy it. It just wasn't all that I'd hoped and more.

[stePH]

I don't want to give away any of the so-called spoilers, so I'll just declare George Lucas to be the SUPREME MASTER OF THE PAINFULLY OBVIOUS, and ask that he please not make any more movies.  Ever.  Because I'm too much of a sucker/geek/completist to not go see them, and they are at best, mildly painful to sit through with one's brain still switched on. 

Back when "Episode One" came out, I believe it was an editor of PC Gamer who wrote within the magazine's pages something like: "Episode One sucked a mountain of ass the size of an Imperial star destroyer.  It sucked so much that we considered suing George Lucas for custody of Star Wars as he is no longer a fit parent for the series."

[Tango Alpha Delta]

In spite of that, I did enjoy it... Part of that could be chalked up to sentimentality and nostalgia, but either way, I had fun.

Just to make sure my point there gets heard, too! I did have fun, and in spite of what I said in my critique I did enjoy it. It just wasn't all that I'd hoped and more.

Ditto!  (I just re-read my comments and thought "Damn, what an old curmudgeon."  That's happening to me a lot lately...)

[Bdoomed]

hmm.  I didn't think the movie sucked at all!  At times it was a little long-winded and, "okay... oookay... get on with it"  at times it was "what?! thats a little too rediculous!"
but most of all it had the adventureous comedy i expected.  it was wild, it was fun, it was interesting.  the only thing i think the movie really lacked was the hunt itself.  They didnt look much at ancient manuscripts and maps and things, it was all relatively straightforward compared to the other ones.
I rank it third best in the series, I didnt care for Temple of Doom.  That chick was way too loud and annoying.
All in all, its a fun movie, like the others.  I think it is well worth seeing.

[birdless]

I think it is well worth seeing.

AFAIC, to say otherwise would be blasphemy.

[Boggled Coriander]

I saw it today.  I was expecting a stinking swamp of mediocrity and what I got was a surprisingly enjoyable movie!

I have to ask...

I laughed when I was supposed to, and managed not to groan too loudly at the bits that were supposed to be not-groaned-at;

What parts were supposed to be not-groaned-at?  The sappy emotional parts maybe?

Because the most groan-at-able scenes, like the three waterfalls (or the bits where they pretend to be all knowledgeable about pre-Columbian cultures), I saw as pure over-the-top comedy.

[Tango Alpha Delta]

I saw it today.  I was expecting a stinking swamp of mediocrity and what I got was a surprisingly enjoyable movie!

I have to ask...

I laughed when I was supposed to, and managed not to groan too loudly at the bits that were supposed to be not-groaned-at;

What parts were supposed to be not-groaned-at?  The sappy emotional parts maybe?

Because the most groan-at-able scenes, like the three waterfalls (or the bits where they pretend to be all knowledgeable about pre-Columbian cultures), I saw as pure over-the-top comedy.

Spoiler (though not much of one, IMHO):  When Marion came out of the tent for the first time, Indiana Jones fucking giggled.  Not only was the plot point telegraphed from 5 light years away (like every other plot point), but he giggled like a 60-year-old school girl.  Jebus Bal'-headed Cripes! (oh, and there's profanity in there, too)

The waterfalls didn't bother me... like you said, it's comedy.  Every time he survives some unlikely adventure, that's part of the fun (though I'd rather have the escape or deus ex machina be somewhat clever or funny than just be silly).  And what was up with the Marlon Brando kid swinging through the trees with the monkeys?

[Alasdair5000]

I saw it today.  I was expecting a stinking swamp of mediocrity and what I got was a surprisingly enjoyable movie!

I have to ask...

I laughed when I was supposed to, and managed not to groan too loudly at the bits that were supposed to be not-groaned-at;

What parts were supposed to be not-groaned-at?  The sappy emotional parts maybe?

Because the most groan-at-able scenes, like the three waterfalls (or the bits where they pretend to be all knowledgeable about pre-Columbian cultures), I saw as pure over-the-top comedy.

Spoiler (though not much of one, IMHO):  When Marion came out of the tent for the first time, Indiana Jones fucking giggled.  Not only was the plot point telegraphed from 5 light years away (like every other plot point), but he giggled like a 60-year-old school girl.  Jebus Bal'-headed Cripes! (oh, and there's profanity in there, too)

The waterfalls didn't bother me... like you said, it's comedy.  Every time he survives some unlikely adventure, that's part of the fun (though I'd rather have the escape or deus ex machina be somewhat clever or funny than just be silly).  And what was up with the Marlon Brando kid swinging through the trees with the monkeys?

   See, for me, Mutt and the monkeys was the same level of silly as surviving the plane crash in Temple of Doom by jumping out of the plane in the raft:)
   My wife, who is SO much cooler than me, has a really interesting take on KOTCS.  Namely, that this is the one where they're learning how to just get it done again, after the nineteen year layoff and the multiple scripts.  The repositioning of some characters in this one and the introduction of Mutt in particular actually makes a LOT of sense when looked at that way, as does the fact Lucas has been open about wanting to do a fifth one soon(ish).

[Russell Nash]

I picked up the original Raiders today for 10 bucks.  That about ends my interest in the whole thing.  I was one of the folks who was against the fourth film.  Raiders definately belongs in the thread Movies destroyed by sequels.

[DKT]

Despite getting sick this weekend, I saw it, and mostly liked it.  There were some things that I absolutely LOVED (the graveyard scene, the truck chase/ants scene) and a couple places that I got really annoyed at.  Mostly, the thing that annoyed me were some of the new characters (although, surprisingly, I enjoyed Mutt much more than I thought).  The rest I'll white out. 

There was a lot in this movie built on relationships we had never experiences and just had to take as it was told to us.  Mostly, Indy's relationship to Mac (Ray Winstone), his old archaeologist buddy Oxley (John Hurt), and Marcus Brody's replacement (Jim Broadbent).  None of these worked very well for me, especially Brody's replacement.  It was like they'd written a scene for Brody, and he'd called in sick, and they had to find a substitute for him.  know Denholm Eliott past away, but still.  They could've done something far more creative than the Indy packing/Brody drinking scene.   If I had to pick one thing about the movie that really pissed me off, it was this scene, because it was the laziest thing I've seen in any of the Indiana Jones movies.  Mac, well, we never really have a reason to care that much about him, he's more of a plot device than anything.  Ditto Oxley.  Both these actors are talented enough to make even plot devices watchable (Winstone getting punched/kicked in the nose -- what's not to love?), but the writing here also felt a bit lazy.  Also, I know Sean Connery "retired" and thus he refused a part in this movie, but still.  It might've been a nice touch to see the movie start with Indy and Mac at Henry Jones, Sr.'s funeral, then have them get kidnapped by the Reds.  Already, I would've dug Mac more as Indy's friend, and I would've felt more nostalgia for Connery's great work in Last Crusade.  Hell, I would've appreciated the Brody clone more.  As it stands, the attempts for nostalgia feel like just that.  Tries.

Also, I didn't mind the crystal skull thing.  But I didn't like the UFO at the end.


But yes, I did enjoy it, and I'm hoping to see it again with my dad. 

[birdless]

In response to DKT, I love your idea of the funeral thing, but, as for Brody, unless I completely misunderstood, I thought
Brody died. I thought they mentioned that when they were talking about Jones, Sr. passing away. Did I just completely misunderstand that?

[DKT]

(Obviously, this is SPOILER stuff)

In response to DKT, I love your idea of the funeral thing, but, as for Brody, unless I completely misunderstood, I thought
Brody died. I thought they mentioned that when they were talking about Jones, Sr. passing away. Did I just completely misunderstand that?

No, you were right, he did die (but he wasn't in the movie because the actor died).  I thought the head of his statue falling on the Reds was kind of funny.  But I just felt the new guy was such a carbon copy of Brody (I'm sure if Denhold Elliot, the actor who played Brody was still alive, they would've just change the character's name), in every sense, and we the audience just didn't have the history to buy it.  So it just felt cheap to me.  Does that make better sense? 

[birdless]

Oooh. I gotcha. Yeah, that guy was pretty much just set dressing/plot hinge.

[wintermute]

I finally saw it last night. I enjoyed it, it was fun. Better than Temple of Doom less good than the other two. I wrote more here, but the thing that really needs to be said is: magnetism does not work like that. And, yes, maybe it wasn't actually magnetism, but Indy certainly thought it was, when he came up with the whole stupid gunpowder idea.

Also, Indy is an Anglican. For some reason I find that interesting.

[eytanz]

I finally saw it last night. I enjoyed it, it was fun. Better than Temple of Doom less good than the other two. I wrote more here, but the thing that really needs to be said is: magnetism does not work like that. And, yes, maybe it wasn't actually magnetism, but Indy certainly thought it was, when he came up with the whole stupid gunpowder idea.

Also, Indy is an Anglican. For some reason I find that interesting.

I think Temple of Doom was better, but maybe that's because it's the only one I watched as an actual kid (I first saw Raiders and Last Crusade when I was in my mid-teens).

[DKT]

I finally saw it last night. I enjoyed it, it was fun. Better than Temple of Doom less good than the other two. I wrote more here, but the thing that really needs to be said is: magnetism does not work like that. And, yes, maybe it wasn't actually magnetism, but Indy certainly thought it was, when he came up with the whole stupid gunpowder idea.

Also, Indy is an Anglican. For some reason I find that interesting.

I think Temple of Doom was better, but maybe that's because it's the only one I watched as an actual kid (I first saw Raiders and Last Crusade when I was in my mid-teens).

Better as in the best?  Or better as in better than the Crystal Skull?