Author Topic: What the Frack is Up with Battlestar Galactica? (spoilers) (Read 30747 times)

goatkeeper · **Reply #50 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:33:34 AM

awesome. you're a saint.

Am I the only one disappointed in last week's episode? I mean, I know they only have a couple more shows to go and "a latta splainin' to doo!" but still.

Darwinist · **Reply #51 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:36:23 PM

Quote from: goatkeeper on February 20, 2009, 08:33:34 AM

awesome. you're a saint.

Am I the only one disappointed in last week's episode? I mean, I know they only have a couple more shows to go and "a latta splainin' to doo!" but still.

I'm with you. I think the show is falling on its face. The final episodes will be interesting but I don't know how they are going to wrap this thing up. I used to be a big fan.

Praxis · **Reply #52 on:** February 21, 2009, 09:54:01 PM

It's almost as if the writers are using these (last few) episodes to publicly apologise that they have no idea where the stories are supposed to go.

Repeated references to the fact that one or other of the Final Five (or indeed any of the cylons or even baby Hera) has so far failed to have any amazing revelations or an idea of what the cylon's "Plan" was all along.

Even the conversation between Roslin and Caprica Six where she tries to bring up the subject of their visions, which then peters out into some banal sentiments....
At least some of the characters are doing some interesting things - Baltar attempting not to look like he ran away, the tension between Ellen and Tigh.

I'm assuming that one theme of the remaining episodes will be how cylons and humans find ways to live together and forgive and move on and all that, but since the ending is supposed to be pretty bleak, I can't see any of that resolving satisfactorily.

stePH · **Reply #53 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:13:22 PM

Quote from: Praxis on February 21, 2009, 09:54:01 PM

It's almost as if the writers are using these (last few) episodes to publicly apologise that they have no idea where the stories are supposed to go.

In other words, they're going to pull an Eva on us.

Anarquistador · **Reply #54 on:** February 22, 2009, 03:29:52 PM

I admit, I haven't watched BSG on a regular basis since about the third season. I just lost my taste for the show. It really does seem like the writers have jettisoned any sense of plot or theme or character development for the sake of being brutal and topical. I too find myself scratching my head about the Cylon "plan." They WERE supposed to have a plan, right?

It's also the politics of the show that weigh heavily upon my bleeding heart. I've long been troubled by the thought that BSG is basically a fantasy extrapolation of post-9/11 American society, but told from an ultra-conservative mindset. Consider: the Cylons are religious fanatics operating without any real plan beyond "kill the unbelievers." There's no point in trying to see their point of view or come to a peaceful settlement, because they HAVE NO POINT OF VIEW. Not even THEY are clear on their own agenda. The human leader is a divinely-appointed savior who is literally in bed with the military. Anyone who disagrees politically is either a collaborator, a moron, or just pushing their own personal agenda. Characters who could be seen as truly heroic (Gaeta, Helo, Lampkin) are punished for it as the plot moves along, and borderline psychos and just plain incompetents (Apollo, Starbuck, Tigh) are elevated to grand status. Tom Zarek, even though he's technically a villain, was originally made out to seem like he might have a legitimate political beef with the Colonial government, but eventually he's just revealed as another self-promoting schemer. Gaius Baltar goes from Bill Clinton to Saddam Hussein to...whatever he's supposed to be now in way too short a time, assuming whatever role the writers needed him to assume that week. It's frustrating, and I think the ending will be equally frustrating.

That being said, I kind of liked the Bob Dylan references. I've often thought that maybe great artists had some conduit to the Divine, and it's an interesting concept to think that, in some far flung corner of the galaxy, there was a poet or songwriter tapped into the same conduit as Dylan was. And the song does fit with the overall mood of the show.

stePH · **Reply #55 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:01:32 PM

Quote from: Anarquistador on February 22, 2009, 03:29:52 PM

That being said, I kind of liked the Bob Dylan references. I've often thought that maybe great artists had some conduit to the Divine, and it's an interesting concept to think that, in some far flung corner of the galaxy, there was a poet or songwriter tapped into the same conduit as Dylan was. And the song does fit with the overall mood of the show.

With the revelations of Earth, it seems clear to me that the Five knew the song because they came from Earth. Which means that we're all Cylons.

goatkeeper · **Reply #56 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:04:07 AM

Quote from: stePH on February 22, 2009, 04:01:32 PM

Quote from: Anarquistador on February 22, 2009, 03:29:52 PM
That being said, I kind of liked the Bob Dylan references. I've often thought that maybe great artists had some conduit to the Divine, and it's an interesting concept to think that, in some far flung corner of the galaxy, there was a poet or songwriter tapped into the same conduit as Dylan was. And the song does fit with the overall mood of the show.

With the revelations of Earth, it seems clear to me that the Five knew the song because they came from Earth. Which means that we're all Cylons.

Bingo

Heradel · **Reply #57 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:12:10 AM

Am I the only one not pessimistic about the ending at this point? I've liked the last few episodes, and didn't really have trouble with the Anders-will-exposit-everything-now episode. Sure, it dumped a lot at once, but at least for me it didn't feel artificial. And the last episode was just some really good Cylon drama.

stePH · **Reply #58 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:37:13 AM

Quote from: Heradel on February 23, 2009, 12:12:10 AM

Am I the only one not pessimistic about the ending at this point?

Quite possibly. By now I'm expecting an impenetrable non-conclusion that would make Anno Hideaki shake his head in disbelief.

Anarquistador · **Reply #59 on:** February 23, 2009, 03:43:36 AM

Quote from: stePH on February 22, 2009, 04:01:32 PM

Quote from: Anarquistador on February 22, 2009, 03:29:52 PM
That being said, I kind of liked the Bob Dylan references. I've often thought that maybe great artists had some conduit to the Divine, and it's an interesting concept to think that, in some far flung corner of the galaxy, there was a poet or songwriter tapped into the same conduit as Dylan was. And the song does fit with the overall mood of the show.

With the revelations of Earth, it seems clear to me that the Five knew the song because they came from Earth. Which means that we're all Cylons.

I'm kind of okay with that, actually.

Now, if the writers were REALLY smart, they could tie that revelation back to the Ancient Greek roots. Maybe one of the original humanoid Cylons was named Deucalion...

goatkeeper · **Reply #60 on:** February 28, 2009, 03:24:24 AM

I haven't seen tonight's episode, but after last week's cheesefest with Caprica losing the baby while Ellen and Saul fight over her I don't think they can "save" it. Season 3 ended strong and four opened up great, but it's a lot to ask for a show to maintain brilliance like BSG has. Overall, still an amazing series, although I'm very disappointed in how it's fizzling out as contrived and typical television.

Heradel · **Reply #61 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:51:52 PM

That was a really good episode Friday. I think things are falling together, if somewhat obliquely right now.

Planish · **Reply #62 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:41:54 AM

After seeing the episode "Someone to Watch Over Me", now I'm starting to think that maybe Starbuck's Dad was a model 7/Daniel.

His first name, "Drelide", starts with a "D".
He was/is musically artistic, he had disappeared, taught Kara to play "All Along The Watchtower", and somehow passed on a few Cylon characteristics (resurrection?) to Kara.
Kara is also somewhat graphically artistic.

Heradel · **Reply #63 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:13:19 AM

Quote from: Planish on March 02, 2009, 08:41:54 AM

After seeing the episode "Someone to Watch Over Me", now I'm starting to think that maybe Starbuck's Dad was a model 7/Daniel.

His first name, "Drelide", starts with a "D".
He was/is musically artistic, he had disappeared, taught Kara to play "All Along The Watchtower", and somehow passed on a few Cylon characteristics (resurrection?) to Kara.
Kara is also somewhat graphically artistic.

I was thinking the same thing. She's not a toaster, and the first hybrid is still the future of the combined races.

Sucks to be Hera/Helo/Athena though.

Planish · **Reply #64 on:** March 05, 2009, 08:00:16 AM

Quote from: Heradel on March 02, 2009, 09:13:19 AM

Quote from: Planish on March 02, 2009, 08:41:54 AM
After seeing the episode "Someone to Watch Over Me", now I'm starting to think that maybe Starbuck's Dad was a model 7/Daniel.

His first name, "Drelide", starts with a "D".
He was/is musically artistic, he had disappeared, taught Kara to play "All Along The Watchtower", and somehow passed on a few Cylon characteristics (resurrection?) to Kara.
Kara is also somewhat graphically artistic.

I was thinking the same thing. She's not a toaster, and the first hybrid is still the future of the combined races.

There was also that time she hijacked a Cylon Raider and flew it back to the Galactica. A special rapport with the operating system perhaps?

Yet another thought... Suppose Daniel was designed such that his/their children with human women were hybrids, or that his children with "Toaster" Cylons were able to reproduce naturally. Among other things, this would bypass the Resurrection process. Now, if the Cavils were inclined to mess with resurrectees' memories in order to maintain some sort of control over the Cylon race, perhaps he/they got rid of the Daniels to stay in power.

That's what I like about this show. Just enough hints to let you speculate as to what's going on.

Heradel · **Reply #65 on:** March 21, 2009, 04:03:11 AM

For those of us DVRing it, I'm locking this until 11AM EST. Spoilers will be shot.

Heradel · **Reply #66 on:** March 21, 2009, 04:18:45 PM

Well, I liked it. I even feel satisfied. I think the RDM cameo was somewhat inevitable, and the march of robots at the end a little too on the nose, but it was a ~~damn~~ frakking good way to end. So say we all.

Darwinist · **Reply #67 on:** March 21, 2009, 06:53:49 PM

I thought it was great. They wrapped everything up in 2 hours and threw in some great twists and turns that I never saw coming. Fantastic! I remember watching the finales of STNG and B5 and this one may be tops. It was a good run. Good sci-fi on TV is hard to find.

Planish · **Reply #68 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:41:12 AM

As soon as [Racetrack?] started reminiscing about some old battle, I said "Shut up! ... oh, they're dead now". One second later, *boom* the rock comes through the canopy. Obviously they were not aware of the Retrirony or Fatal Family Photo tropes, but I think this is a slightly different sub-species of them, and so slipped out accidently.

About the polygraph interview flashback... "Are you a Cylon?" I didn't think they knew yet that skinjobs existed. Did they ask that just to establish a baseline, in the belief that it was obvious (i.e. no shiny metal skin) that Adama was not a Cylon?

stePH · **Reply #69 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:29:27 AM

Still more questions than answers, but at least it didn't go all EVANGELION on us.

Heradel · **Reply #70 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:38:48 AM

Quote from: stePH on March 23, 2009, 03:29:27 AM

Still more questions than answers, but at least it didn't go all EVANGELION on us.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html

Ultimately, I don't really care, but it does raise my interest regarding Caprica.

Alasdair5000 · **Reply #71 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:07:39 AM

Quote from: stePH on March 23, 2009, 03:29:27 AM

Still more questions than answers, but at least it didn't go all EVANGELION on us.

True. I'm actually still figuring out how I felt about it which is either a mark of really good or really patchy storytelling, I can't honestly tell.

Praxis · **Reply #72 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:13:16 AM

Quote from: Alasdair5000 on March 25, 2009, 09:07:39 AM

True. I'm actually still figuring out how I felt about it which is either a mark of really good or really patchy storytelling, I can't honestly tell.

Same here, on the not-sure-what-I-think front.
I think.....it was a bit like having some people you know over for pizza. It's nothing epic, but you get to see them being themselves and you can spend time going 'oh, there's so and so doing that thing they do' and then they go home and you feel quite good and it was *probably* worth doing, all in all.

But it wasn't a well put together finale.

Thinking about it afterwards, I used more synapses going over where the plot holes and changes showed up:
e.g.

Adama was clearly supposed to say goodbye to Lee and fly off into the sun in an earlier script, and then this was changed so that we get the, very touching, ending of him on the hilltop. Even though abandoning Lee like that makes no sense, unless he really still does hate his remaining son that much. ;
they find Earth (but not THE Earth, since we've already had that and done that and it was cool and dramatic to see a nuclear wasteland at the start of the season, etc....) but it is our Earth so....umm....guys, we have all these ships and technology and knowledge and culture here? but......urr....Earth wasn't that advanced in our past so.....think, think.....we'll throw the ships and ALL the techology, hard won advances, everything into the Sun. Hmmmm;
Kara died on the last Earth and then another version of her is around, and she's not a cylon...and she 'saw Earh' as it was.....no time to explain that one sooooo "God did it"
Astronomical odds of finding a habitable planet AND compatible DNA/RNA carrying bipeds - "God did it"
Hera-as-future-of-civilisation.......possibly not, then, if people can breed with the 'humans' they find but then.....she wouldn't be Mitrochrondial (sp?) Eve....orrrr even if she was there wouldn't be a child skeleton found and written about in Nat Geographic. Sod it, "God did it".

Actually, I seem not to like the episode much.

The fighting and battle scenes were cool, though.
And Gaius got to make another earnest speech, which is always good.

Oh, and the flamingoes and 'so much life' bit was sweet.

Loz · **Reply #73 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:24:31 PM

It all boiled down to 'Being God means never having to held to account for killing millions of sentient beings just so one little girl gets to live on a planet with a bunch of savages' in the end. And the 'we must destroy our technology because all technology is bad and then go and split into thousands of individual clusters of people so that cavemen/savage beasts/germs have a much easier time finishing us off' anti-intellectualism of Lee at the end was depressing as hell. He didn't mind technology for all the times it saved his and his families lives in the four seasons previous to that moment. And I wouldn't have minded the loose end of Starbuck if they hadn't made such a big thing about leading up to a revelation. There is a way to structure stories so that not giving an explicit answer does not seem like a cheat, The Usual Suspects did this but BSG did not.

I broadly don't have much problem with anything before the final twenty minutes, it's the final twenty minutes that are it. Was Cavil's baseship destroyed?

Heradel · **Reply #74 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:58:41 PM

Quote from: Loz on March 26, 2009, 08:24:31 PM

I broadly don't have much problem with anything before the final twenty minutes, it's the final twenty minutes that are it. Was Cavil's baseship destroyed?

RDM makes it clear in the podcast that the colony was destroyed (and apparently loses it's orbit and is sucked into the maw), but that they needed to cut time so they took it from that explosion sequence.

Quote

It all boiled down to 'Being God means never having to held to account for killing millions of sentient beings just so one little girl gets to live on a planet with a bunch of savages' in the end. And the 'we must destroy our technology because all technology is bad and then go and split into thousands of individual clusters of people so that cavemen/savage beasts/germs have a much easier time finishing us off' anti-intellectualism of Lee at the end was depressing as hell. He didn't mind technology for all the times it saved his and his families lives in the four seasons previous to that moment. And I wouldn't have minded the loose end of Starbuck if they hadn't made such a big thing about leading up to a revelation. There is a way to structure stories so that not giving an explicit answer does not seem like a cheat, The Usual Suspects did this but BSG did not.

I disagree. They were fundamentally betrayed by an instrument of their own technology, and the last four years they had been living nearly constantly aboard ship. We saw on New Caprica that some of them had gone to a more rural sort of life, and also that experience with creating a city didn't really seem to be that great — mud and tents everywhere, shortages and labor disagreements, and well, it was messy. It seemed to me logical at the end that they would split up and go to a simpler kind of life, even if it was objectively cruder.