EP163: Revolution Time

[Sandikal]

I have no idea what "meh" means, but I'm guessing it means "yuck".  It that's the case, I agree.  Personally, I love time travel stories.  I love "The Time Machine," Connie Willis' "Doomsday Book" and "To Say Nothing of the Dog" and that Ray Bradbury story where the tourist go back to prehistoric times to hunt dinosaurs but one kills something that wasn't supposed to die and when they get back, all the signs are misspelled.  My favorite Star Trek episodes are the time travel ones.  I love Dr. Who.  And, one of my favorite shows when I was a kid was "The Time Tunnel."   I'm a time travel geek.

This story was absolutely stupid.  It was way too full of paradoxes.  I completely expected that the narrator would have been sent back to wherever they got Marx from.  After all, they needed to replace the mass and he was in the right spot in the room to get transported back.  And, Marx knew all this stuff was going to happen, but it didn't change the past?  How stupid is that? 

I thought Ragtime's story was fabulous though.  That's how a time travel story should read.

[CGFxColONeill]

**snip
Honestly, I'm amazed at your restraint and how intelligent the whole conversation has been.  Even when you're ripping something apart, you do it with class.
**snip**

thanks for the good laugh here I needed that lol

I have no idea what "meh" means,
**snip**

meh

[stePH]

I have no idea what "meh" means,
**snip**

meh

Urban Dictionary is far more worthy of the scorn and derision that many people lavish upon Wikipedia.  As a source of information, I consider it almost completely worthless.

[stePH]

...and that Ray Bradbury story where the tourist go back to prehistoric times to hunt dinosaurs but one kills something that wasn't supposed to die and when they get back, all the signs are misspelled. 

"A Sound of Thunder".  I saw a commercial indicating that it will soon be a Skiffy Channel Original Movie, last Saturday night while watching the latest Doctor Who.

[CammoBlammo]

I'm worried I'm going to lose all my credibility for saying this, but...

I REALLY LIKED THIS ONE!!!!

Sorry, I had to say it. In fact, it's one of my favourite EPs yet. Up there with Friction.

I wouldn't worry about the leftist politics Steve, because it was a story about one consequence of time travel, not leftism. To pick up on what others have been saying, it would have worked just as well if the cell were a bunch of neo-nazis bringing Hitler back.

The real kick for me was at the end when the cell all went on to different lives. Some died, some continued the revolution, and some got on with life while staying true to their cause. That's always been one of the sad but real parts of life for me. I knew many bright-eyed ideologists at University who were willing to die for one cause or another. They were willing to die for it; living for it, though, was another matter. There was the anarchist who majored in economics and ended up selling insurance. There was the fundamentalist Christian who was going to save the world, but ended up doing security work at a seedy night club.

None of them sold out --- they simply realised their ideology also involved caring for their families and putting food on the table. In other words, they grew up. This might be one of the reasons I put it up there with Friction --- one of the main themes was, 'What do we consider so important we're willing to sacrifice our entire lives for it?'

In this case, they knew their revolution would eventually succeed, but they also knew they wouldn't be around to see it (assuming they hadn't fixed the mortality issue by then). This has a lot of implications. There's lots of reason to despair about our future, and lots of reason to be hopeful. Personally, if I had a guarantee that the revolution would succeed in 800 years I wouldn't bother fighting. I wouldn't even bother when the time came. Why risk everything for a cause that cannot lose?

Just on that, somebody complained that there was no indication about what the cell were fighting against. There was one clue --- it was a government that was prepared to nuke their own nation in order to win. If my nation were to consider that a real option, I'd probably think about a revolution too.

[eytanz]

Just on that, somebody complained that there was no indication about what the cell were fighting against. There was one clue --- it was a government that was prepared to nuke their own nation in order to win. If my nation were to consider that a real option, I'd probably think about a revolution too.

Ah, but the thing is -that can't be the justification, because that took the revolutionaries (except Marx himself) entirely by surprise. They certainly didn't believe that they were rebelling against a government that was prepared to nuke its own people, which is why the trap worked so well.

I happen to agree with you, by the way, in that the story works best if you take it to be a story about time travel rather than a story about politics. I think as a story about time travel, it was pretty decent, even though its basic premise (that the future needs to bring forth people from the past to achieve anything) is silly. The politics, though, are just painted on with a thin brush and are totally meaningless.

[sirana]

Finally, if the US government has the entire history worth of military leaders at their disposal why didn't they grab Ghengis Kahn, Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Napoleon, and Patton and just crush the revolution? 

You know, following this line of thought could have actually made this into a good story.

I wouldn't worry about the leftist politics Steve, because it was a story about one consequence of time travel, not leftism. To pick up on what others have been saying, it would have worked just as well if the cell were a bunch of neo-nazis bringing Hitler back.

Imho, this would have been also a better story, if they brought back Hitler (or Stalin for that matter). Marx is more like a Communist Santa Claus, he is to inoffensive to shake up the story. Now if they tried to bring back Hitler this would make the characters more interesting plus it puts the reader in a difficult position: "Well the main character seems like a decent person, but HE'S TRYING TO BRING BACK HITLER".

Combining the two would also be funny: Some rebel group brings back Hitler, they plunge the US into civil war. The US Gouvernment frantically brings in military genius after military genius from the past only to get their asses handed to them. Finally they bring in Genghis Khan who defeats Hitler's troups and singlehandedly rips Hitler's head off, only to incorporate the US into his New Mongolian Empire.

I really would like to hear that story... ;-)

[Listener]

I think this story was set in the USA and in the present, so there's plenty to rebel against there.

 

It certainly is not set in the present. The story explicitly makes mention that:

A - The US government has a time machine which it publicly uses to periodically bring back Shakespeare, and has been doing so since the protagonist was a child.
B - A large percentage of the population lives off-world in space stations.

Unless I missed some important news lately, I think this means the story takes place towards the end of the 21st century, not in its beginning.

I believe Marx referenced something about the 21st.  But that makes it even more unrealistic to me, because there is no way that ANY percentage of the population beyond 5.0x10E-13 will live on off-world space stations between now and 2099.

PS: 5.0x10E-13 is 3 (the population of the ISS) divided by 6,000,000,000,000 (the approximate number of people on Earth at present).  I suppose I should've divided by 7 or 8 trillion, but I'm just trying to make a point.

[eytanz]

I think this story was set in the USA and in the present, so there's plenty to rebel against there.

 

It certainly is not set in the present. The story explicitly makes mention that:

A - The US government has a time machine which it publicly uses to periodically bring back Shakespeare, and has been doing so since the protagonist was a child.
B - A large percentage of the population lives off-world in space stations.

Unless I missed some important news lately, I think this means the story takes place towards the end of the 21st century, not in its beginning.

I believe Marx referenced something about the 21st.  But that makes it even more unrealistic to me, because there is no way that ANY percentage of the population beyond 5.0x10E-13 will live on off-world space stations between now and 2099.

PS: 5.0x10E-13 is 3 (the population of the ISS) divided by 6,000,000,000,000 (the approximate number of people on Earth at present).  I suppose I should've divided by 7 or 8 trillion, but I'm just trying to make a point.

Oh,  I don't know. I can easily seeing the proportion doubling, or tripling. Or maybe even increasing beyond that - why, I think it's quite plausible that by the end of the 21st century the earth population will double, and there will be several hundred people living on space stations.

[Russell Nash]

I think this story was set in the USA and in the present, so there's plenty to rebel against there.

 

It certainly is not set in the present. The story explicitly makes mention that:

A - The US government has a time machine which it publicly uses to periodically bring back Shakespeare, and has been doing so since the protagonist was a child.
B - A large percentage of the population lives off-world in space stations.

Unless I missed some important news lately, I think this means the story takes place towards the end of the 21st century, not in its beginning.

I believe Marx referenced something about the 21st.  But that makes it even more unrealistic to me, because there is no way that ANY percentage of the population beyond 5.0x10E-13 will live on off-world space stations between now and 2099.

PS: 5.0x10E-13 is 3 (the population of the ISS) divided by 6,000,000,000,000 (the approximate number of people on Earth at present).  I suppose I should've divided by 7 or 8 trillion, but I'm just trying to make a point.

Oh,  I don't know. I can easily seeing the proportion doubling, or tripling. Or maybe even increasing beyond that - why, I think it's quite plausible that by the end of the 21st century the earth population will double, and there will be several hundred people living on space stations.

World population: 6.7 Billion

US national debt:  9.3 Trillion

Billion is with 9 zeroes.  Trillion is with 12.

[deflective]

it's an international space station.

dubai is starting space tourism with a chunk of that debt. recent states' policies mean that they may be watching when cool stuff happens but it's still gonna happen.

[Darwinist]

...and that Ray Bradbury story where the tourist go back to prehistoric times to hunt dinosaurs but one kills something that wasn't supposed to die and when they get back, all the signs are misspelled. 

"A Sound of Thunder".  I saw a commercial indicating that it will soon be a Skiffy Channel Original Movie, last Saturday night while watching the latest Doctor Who.

I saw the 2005 or 2006 big screen version "A Sound of Thunder".  An absolute pile of dung.  Avoid it at all costs.

[wintermute]

I believe Marx referenced something about the 21st.  But that makes it even more unrealistic to me, because there is no way that ANY percentage of the population beyond 5.0x10E-13 will live on off-world space stations between now and 2099.

Yeah, just like how, in 1960 people said that there was no way men would walk on the Moon within a decade.

All it takes is political will. If that's there, there's no technical reason why we can't have dozens, or hundreds, of people in permanent orbital habitats within 50 years. Maybe tens of thousands within the century.

Right now, it doesn't seem very likely, with NASA being stripped to the bone, and the European, Japanese, Chinese and Russian space programmes not in any better shape. But if we get a head of state who pulls a Kennedy on this, you can be sure that it'll happen.

[stePH]

"A Sound of Thunder".  I saw a commercial indicating that it will soon be a Skiffy Channel Original Movie, last Saturday night while watching the latest Doctor Who.

I saw the 2005 or 2006 big screen version "A Sound of Thunder".  An absolute pile of dung.  Avoid it at all costs.

Perhaps the film you saw is the one that will show on Skiffy, rather than a newer remake. 

[birdless]

"A Sound of Thunder".  I saw a commercial indicating that it will soon be a Skiffy Channel Original Movie, last Saturday night while watching the latest Doctor Who.

I saw the 2005 or 2006 big screen version "A Sound of Thunder".  An absolute pile of dung.  Avoid it at all costs.

Perhaps the film you saw is the one that will show on Skiffy, rather than a newer remake. 

Well, if the one you saw advertised is a SciFi Channel Original Movie, then it probably isn't the big-screen version that Dar is referring to. I remember when that came out. I wanted to see it but i never got around to it. I'll have to watch for it in the free InDemand movies. lol Thanks for letting us know about the Skiffy version, though. I'll have to check it out.

[stePH]

Well, if the one you saw advertised is a SciFi Channel Original Movie, then it probably isn't the big-screen version that Dar is referring to. I remember when that came out. I wanted to see it but i never got around to it. I'll have to watch for it in the free InDemand movies. lol Thanks for letting us know about the Skiffy version, though. I'll have to check it out.

All I know is that I saw a film version of "A Sound of Thunder" advertised on the Skiffy channel while I was watching another program.  Given the level of quality that movies on the Skiffy channel typically have, I didn't really pay it any more mind.

Besides, listening to the Snark Infested Waters podcast I've gathered that some of these Skiffy "Original" movies are actually not premiered on the channel, but were first shown elsewhere.

[Chodon]

I believe Marx referenced something about the 21st.  But that makes it even more unrealistic to me, because there is no way that ANY percentage of the population beyond 5.0x10E-13 will live on off-world space stations between now and 2099.

Yeah, just like how, in 1960 people said that there was no way men would walk on the Moon within a decade.

All it takes is political will. If that's there, there's no technical reason why we can't have dozens, or hundreds, of people in permanent orbital habitats within 50 years. Maybe tens of thousands within the century.

Right now, it doesn't seem very likely, with NASA being stripped to the bone, and the European, Japanese, Chinese and Russian space programmes not in any better shape. But if we get a head of state who pulls a Kennedy on this, you can be sure that it'll happen.

But Wintermute, if we don't take the money from NASA how are we going to fund the war on terror.  Thoughts like that make the terrorists win.

 

[wintermute]

But Wintermute, if we don't take the money from NASA how are we going to fund the war on terror.  Thoughts like that make the terrorists win.

 

Heh. NASA's full budget for a year would pay for about three hours of the Iraq war. Or about a decade of the search for bin Laden.

[Swamp]

Not a very good historical time travel story.  Mission to Dover, the 2007 Flash Fiction Contest winner, did a much better job of it, and it only needed 300 words or less.

By the way, just when are we going to hear that story on EP?  When are we going to hear any of these winners or other stories purchsed from the contest?  I figured maybe some of the stories were waiting to appear on PC, but so far nothing.  However, I did enjoy hearing Stone Born on PC.  Or maybe Steve was waiting for everybody to forget the contest stories so that they would be new and fresh, and now that I've reminded everybody, we are going to have to wait longer.  I've ruined it again.

That's about the only thing I can complain about for EP.  More flash please.

[birdless]

Besides, listening to the Snark Infested Waters podcast I've gathered that some of these Skiffy "Original" movies are actually not premiered on the channel, but were first shown elsewhere.

Hunh, interesting... i did not know that.

[eytanz]

Besides, listening to the Snark Infested Waters podcast I've gathered that some of these Skiffy "Original" movies are actually not premiered on the channel, but were first shown elsewhere.

Hunh, interesting... i did not know that.

A "Sci-Fi original" movie means that it was funded by the Sci-Fi channel, not that it was premiered there.

[Russell Nash]

Complaints of the US government and the two party system have been moved here.

[doctorclark]

Totally enjoyed the intro and outro, though. Steve's line about the domain name being taken... dinosaurs and centrists... and then of course "Think for Yourself". Those were the highlights of the story. (Ignore the fact that they were not actually in it, and it was top notch!)

Ah, but to add to the nearly-universal criticism of EP163, I have a beef with the intro!

Steve's intros usually get me curious/interested/excited for the story, and as soon as he hits his "...Story Time" riff, I'm eager for the story to begin.

However, during the Revolution Time intro, he practically invited all of these negative comments by souring the listener right from the beginning.  The way he talked about the story in the intro felt like he was apologizing for the story he was about to subject us to.

Maybe this was a bit of reverse psychology, to try to ward off some nagging feeling he had that he shouldn't have run this piece?  Yeah.  That's it.  Steve knew subconsciously how bad this was, and was trying to protect us...

[Listener]

Totally enjoyed the intro and outro, though. Steve's line about the domain name being taken... dinosaurs and centrists... and then of course "Think for Yourself". Those were the highlights of the story. (Ignore the fact that they were not actually in it, and it was top notch!)

Ah, but to add to the nearly-universal criticism of EP163, I have a beef with the intro!

Steve's intros usually get me curious/interested/excited for the story, and as soon as he hits his "...Story Time" riff, I'm eager for the story to begin.

However, during the Revolution Time intro, he practically invited all of these negative comments by souring the listener right from the beginning.  The way he talked about the story in the intro felt like he was apologizing for the story he was about to subject us to.

Maybe this was a bit of reverse psychology, to try to ward off some nagging feeling he had that he shouldn't have run this piece?  Yeah.  That's it.  Steve knew subconsciously how bad this was, and was trying to protect us...

I was actually thinking the story would be the exact opposite... that Steve was being hyperbolic.  Alas, that was not the case.  But by the time I finished the story, I'd forgotten the intro.  *shrug*

[Void Munashii]

Totally enjoyed the intro and outro, though. Steve's line about the domain name being taken... dinosaurs and centrists... and then of course "Think for Yourself". Those were the highlights of the story. (Ignore the fact that they were not actually in it, and it was top notch!)

Ah, but to add to the nearly-universal criticism of EP163, I have a beef with the intro!

Steve's intros usually get me curious/interested/excited for the story, and as soon as he hits his "...Story Time" riff, I'm eager for the story to begin.

However, during the Revolution Time intro, he practically invited all of these negative comments by souring the listener right from the beginning.  The way he talked about the story in the intro felt like he was apologizing for the story he was about to subject us to.

Maybe this was a bit of reverse psychology, to try to ward off some nagging feeling he had that he shouldn't have run this piece?  Yeah.  That's it.  Steve knew subconsciously how bad this was, and was trying to protect us...

  I recall most of what he warned us about was that it was a left-wing time-travel story, and for me the fact that they brought forward a socialist was mostly irrelevant. All you would have to do is change a few names, and you could have the exact same story with a right-wing revolution; they could have brought Ronald Reagan forward and it would not have changed to story for me one bit.

  My problems with the story are that it was just a "meh" kind of story; nothing much there to love or hate really. Now the day we get an intro warning that a story is "meh" is the day I reconsider listening, but I like to believe that Steve would never purchase a story that he considered to be "meh" (which rules my stuff right out).