Watchmen Trailer

[DKT]

The music is haunting.  Is that the Smashing Pumpkins?  I always find it ironic when a filmmaker uses a band that is almost 20 years old to do something edgy.

It is indeed Smashing Pumpkins.  Want to know the ironic bit about it?  It's a song that was originally on the soundtrack for one of the worst comic book movies ever -- Batman and Robin.  Weird that now it's playing the trailer for "the most celebrated comic book of our time" or whatever.  Still, I always did think that was a good song.

I noticed that about Nite Owl, too.  I always thought he looked a bit ridiculous in the comic, so seeing him all Batman-esque is kind of weird.  I'm a bit worried about Ozymandias, but I'm hoping they pull it off.  I would've thought someone a little more...confident looking.  But I'm willing to give the actor the benefit of the doubt.

[stePH]

I'm a little disappointed with Ozy, too.  It looks like they are envisioning him as the frustrated nerd, like the kid Buddy/Syndrome* from The Incredibles. 

...

*just found out he was voiced by Jason Lee, the dude from My Name is Earl.  Who knew?

I did.    I'm a bit of a Jason Lee fan, despite the rather large proportion of bad movies he's been in (Stealing Harvard and Dreamcatcher come to mind) mostly because of his roles in Mallrats, Chasing Amy, and Dogma

[Listener]

The music is haunting.  Is that the Smashing Pumpkins?  I always find it ironic when a filmmaker uses a band that is almost 20 years old to do something edgy.

It is indeed Smashing Pumpkins.  Want to know the ironic bit about it?  It's a song that was originally on the soundtrack for one of the worst comic book movies ever -- Batman and Robin.  Weird that now it's playing the trailer for "the most celebrated comic book of our time" or whatever.  Still, I always did think that was a good song.

Different version, though.  More haunting than the rockin' version from B&R.

[birdless]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Nite Owl.  He was middle-aged and portly in the comic, but pretty buff in the trailer.  I have to admit that I would rather see a kick-ass Batman type than flabby Shatner type.

I'm a little disappointed with Ozy, too.  It looks like they are envisioning him as the frustrated nerd, like the kid Buddy/Syndrome* from The Incredibles.  But I could be reading too much into a nanosecond shot.

I noticed that about Nite Owl, too.  I always thought he looked a bit ridiculous in the comic, so seeing him all Batman-esque is kind of weird.  I'm a bit worried about Ozymandias, but I'm hoping they pull it off.  I would've thought someone a little more...confident looking.  But I'm willing to give the actor the benefit of the doubt.

Ozy doesn't bother me too much, but it's been over a decade since i've read the book. I actually think he's a closer fit than Nite Owl. I feel it's integral to Nite Owl's character to be a bit portly and nearing middle age. Plus, they messed with his goggles too much and took away the "owlness." Still, by and large, it looks like they have really respected Dave Gibbons' artwork.

Or the Silk Spectre.  They've slutted her up quite a bit from what she looked like in the book.

Like i said, it's been a while since i read the book, but i thought part of the whole deal with her costume was it's sluttiness (Silk Spectre 1, anyway, and i thought the SS2 wasn't too far off).

[DKT]

The music is haunting.  Is that the Smashing Pumpkins?  I always find it ironic when a filmmaker uses a band that is almost 20 years old to do something edgy.

It is indeed Smashing Pumpkins.  Want to know the ironic bit about it?  It's a song that was originally on the soundtrack for one of the worst comic book movies ever -- Batman and Robin.  Weird that now it's playing the trailer for "the most celebrated comic book of our time" or whatever.  Still, I always did think that was a good song.

Different version, though.  More haunting than the rockin' version from B&R.

Ah, but that version was on the B&R soundtrack, too.  (Don't ask me how I know this!)

[Listener]

The music is haunting.  Is that the Smashing Pumpkins?  I always find it ironic when a filmmaker uses a band that is almost 20 years old to do something edgy.

It is indeed Smashing Pumpkins.  Want to know the ironic bit about it?  It's a song that was originally on the soundtrack for one of the worst comic book movies ever -- Batman and Robin.  Weird that now it's playing the trailer for "the most celebrated comic book of our time" or whatever.  Still, I always did think that was a good song.

Different version, though.  More haunting than the rockin' version from B&R.

Ah, but that version was on the B&R soundtrack, too.  (Don't ask me how I know this!)

I have both versions on my compy.  I know exactly what you mean.

[wakela]

Want to know the ironic bit about it?  It's a song that was originally on the soundtrack for one of the worst comic book movies ever -- Batman and Robin.  Weird that now it's playing the trailer for "the most celebrated comic book of our time" or whatever.  Still, I always did think that was a good song.

Wow, multiple levels of irony.  Wouldn't it be cool if they used the song for a movie about a comic with a bunch of subtle, ironic jokes and stuff. 

U2's Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me from the Batman Forever soundtrack is still one of my favorite songs.  Seems like those guys would have been better off making mix albums than movies.


So who do you guys think should have played Ozy? (while admitting that the jury is still out on the poor guy we are already disappointed with). 

[Listener]

I just noticed that Carla Gugino is the Silk Spectre.

Yum.

Pardon my lechery, but really... she's beautiful.

[stePH]

Or the Silk Spectre.  They've slutted her up quite a bit from what she looked like in the book.

Like i said, it's been a while since i read the book, but i thought part of the whole deal with her costume was it's sluttiness (Silk Spectre 1, anyway, and i thought the SS2 wasn't too far off).

I mean really slutted her up, far beyond what her costume was in the book.

[birdless]

hmm... guess it's subjective 

[DKT]

U2's Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me from the Batman Forever soundtrack is still one of my favorite songs.  Seems like those guys would have been better off making mix albums than movies.

I. LOVE. That. Song.  The video was lots of fun, too (well, the cartoon stuff more than the movie clips).

Ozymandias...I don't know for sure, but I'd be inclined to go with someone like Jude Law.  Someone who I imagine can look a little more menacing.

[wakela]

I. LOVE. That. Song.  The video was lots of fun, too (well, the cartoon stuff more than the movie clips).

Ozymandias...I don't know for sure, but I'd be inclined to go with someone like Jude Law.  Someone who I imagine can look a little more menacing.

Interesting choice.  He has classic good looks, and can pull off both Nice Guy and Menacing.  But he's not that bulky.  I'm thinking a blond, Superman The Movie Christopher Reeve type. 

And another thing.  This trailer reminded me that we are in the middle of a particular style of shooting action sequences.  The action speeds up for the actiony part, and then slows way down for the results of the action.  Nite Owl falls to the street really fast, then gets up really slow.  The Comedian is hit really fast then flies through the window really slow.  This style seems to have replaced clipping out one in every couple of frames to make the action seem sped up a choppy (Gladiator, Private Ryan), and the Matrixy freezing and spinning of the action, which was cool at first but there was never any real point to it. 

[stePH]

This trailer reminded me that we are in the middle of a particular style of shooting action sequences.  The action speeds up for the actiony part, and then slows way down for the results of the action. 

Is that what they call "speed ramping"?

[Listener]

This trailer reminded me that we are in the middle of a particular style of shooting action sequences.  The action speeds up for the actiony part, and then slows way down for the results of the action. 

Is that what they call "speed ramping"?

I thought that was what happens to your car when you coast on a cloverleaf-shaped ramp and you somehow gain speed even though you're not going downward.   

(kidding)

[errant371]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Nite Owl.  He was middle-aged and portly in the comic, but pretty buff in the trailer.  I have to admit that I would rather see a kick-ass Batman type than flabby Shatner type.

I'm a little disappointed with Ozy, too.  It looks like they are envisioning him as the frustrated nerd, like the kid Buddy/Syndrome* from The Incredibles.  But I could be reading too much into a nanosecond shot.

I noticed that about Nite Owl, too.  I always thought he looked a bit ridiculous in the comic, so seeing him all Batman-esque is kind of weird.  I'm a bit worried about Ozymandias, but I'm hoping they pull it off.  I would've thought someone a little more...confident looking.  But I'm willing to give the actor the benefit of the doubt.

Ozy doesn't bother me too much, but it's been over a decade since i've read the book. I actually think he's a closer fit than Nite Owl. I feel it's integral to Nite Owl's character to be a bit portly and nearing middle age. Plus, they messed with his goggles too much and took away the "owlness." Still, by and large, it looks like they have really respected Dave Gibbons' artwork.

Or the Silk Spectre.  They've slutted her up quite a bit from what she looked like in the book.

Like i said, it's been a while since i read the book, but i thought part of the whole deal with her costume was it's sluttiness (Silk Spectre 1, anyway, and i thought the SS2 wasn't too far off).

Now that I have finally seen the trailer on a decent computer with a nice big datapipe, I am less and less impressed with the choices the director has made.  Ozymandius is the very definition of confident, not as wakela mentioned, a frustrated nerd.  Strike one.  The second Nite Owl buff?  No thanks.  The whole point of the comic was that these heroes were retired, middle aged, past their prime and drawn into a conspiracy involving the death of one of their own.  It has been years since the passing of the Keane Act and they have not been fighting crime.  Hell, I gained flab in the one year that I went back to university.  Strike two.

Granted this is a trailer.  There could be lots that we are missing (like justification for the above).  Recent trend in Hollywood trailers tends to be "show all the best parts so people will come to our crappy movie thinking it will be good because of the trailer".  And, I am still not convinced that Watchmen can even be adapted for film.  There is far too much backstory, sidestory, meta-text, and carefully sprinkled visual and textual clues that just don't work well in film.  Too many people assume that because comics are a visual medium that they are easy to adapt to the screen.  V For Vendetta was written in a visual medium too, and looked what happened there.

[wintermute]

Recent trend in Hollywood trailers tends to be "show all the best parts so people will come to our crappy movie thinking it will be good because of the trailer". 

"Recent"?

That is, and always has been, the very purpose of a trailer.

[wintermute]

Too many people assume that because comics are a visual medium that they are easy to adapt to the screen.  V For Vendetta was written in a visual medium too, and looked what happened there.

In theory, comics should be the easiest literary medium to convert to film. They consist of a chronological sequence of images, with dialogue and sound effects. Just because V for Vendetta failed to make a decent film does not mean that it's impossible to film a comic; or even that it's impossible to film V for Vendetta; in the hands of a competent director who understood and appreciated the source material, it could have been great. Alas, the Wachowski brothers are not such a director; nor is Zack Snyder.

On the other hand, Sin City was a textbook example of how to do something like this right; have it directed by a serious comic book geek (ideally with the original author acting as co-director), and use the comic as your storyboard.

Of course, there are comics that use layout techniques that would be impossible to convert to the silver screen (Moore's Promethia includes a double-page spread laid out as an infinity symbol), but these are a tiny minority.

[DKT]

Just because V for Vendetta failed to make a decent film does not mean that it's impossible to film a comic; or even that it's impossible to film V for Vendetta; in the hands of a competent director who understood and appreciated the source material, it could have been great. Alas, the Wachowski brothers are not such a director; nor is Zack Snyder.

Just to be fair, I think the Wachowski Brothers producted V for Vendetta.  James McTeigue directed the movie.

I thought Sin City was okay, visually it was stunning, but it was so faithful of an adaptation, trying so hard to mirror a comic book that at other points, I couldn't stop being pulled out of it.

I think there's things comics, movies, and books can do that the other medias can't even imagine (witness Wintermute's infinity symbol example, or a lot of stuff that happens in Grant Morrison comics).  Still, that doesn't stop us from going to see them. 

[stePH]

And, I am still not convinced that Watchmen can even be adapted for film.  There is far too much backstory, sidestory, meta-text, and carefully sprinkled visual and textual clues that just don't work well in film. 

My thoughts exactly.  I stated early in this thread that I have a doubt.

V For Vendetta was written in a visual medium too, and looked what happened there.

To be fair, the screenwriters didn't follow the book's story very closely when adapting that one.  But I'm already on record as liking the film in spite of it.

[stePH]

I thought Sin City was okay, visually it was stunning, but it was so faithful of an adaptation, trying so hard to mirror a comic book that at other points, I couldn't stop being pulled out of it.

Sin City was a frame-perfect adaptation; my problem with it is that the source book just wasn't that good to begin with.  Let's see one of Miller's good works brought to screen -- Ronin or The Dark Knight Returns.

[errant371]

Recent trend in Hollywood trailers tends to be "show all the best parts so people will come to our crappy movie thinking it will be good because of the trailer". 

"Recent"?

That is, and always has been, the very purpose of a trailer.

I have seen several trailers for films not made in the last 15 years, and guess what?  They talked about the film, not just soundbite quick cuts of the only parts worth watching.  Check out the trailer for Apocalypse Now or Sophie's Choice or hell even schlock like Yentl.  For at least one of these, Apocalypse Now the most impressive parts of the film weren't in the trailer at all.  The purpose of a movie trailer is to gain theinterest of the audience.  If takes the best scenes of the film to do that, then there is something wrong or your film isn't all that interesting is it?  If you can gain sufficient interest in the film without showing the best scenes, then your film is probably pretty good.  Film trailers are now made for our depressingly attention-deficeit sound-bite over-hype fad-following culture. 

[errant371]

Too many people assume that because comics are a visual medium that they are easy to adapt to the screen.  V For Vendetta was written in a visual medium too, and looked what happened there.

In theory, comics should be the easiest literary medium to convert to film. They consist of a chronological sequence of images, with dialogue and sound effects. Just because V for Vendetta failed to make a decent film does not mean that it's impossible to film a comic; or even that it's impossible to film V for Vendetta; in the hands of a competent director who understood and appreciated the source material, it could have been great. Alas, the Wachowski brothers are not such a director; nor is Zack Snyder.

On the other hand, Sin City was a textbook example of how to do something like this right; have it directed by a serious comic book geek (ideally with the original author acting as co-director), and use the comic as your storyboard.

Of course, there are comics that use layout techniques that would be impossible to convert to the silver screen (Moore's Promethia includes a double-page spread laid out as an infinity symbol), but these are a tiny minority.

I will agree with you on Sin City.  That is how a comic book is adapted to film.  Yes, in theory, it is easy to adapt a comic to film.  Storyboards are little more than a comic book anyway.  But theory seldom survives the real world.  How many stinkers of comic book adaptations have there been recently?  Hollywood seems to be incapable of putting out a halfway decent film for the past 10 years or so, with notable exceptions of course.  I blame it on the Lowest Common Denominator theory of movie making.

[errant371]

And, I am still not convinced that Watchmen can even be adapted for film.  There is far too much backstory, sidestory, meta-text, and carefully sprinkled visual and textual clues that just don't work well in film. 

My thoughts exactly.  I stated early in this thread that I have a doubt.

V For Vendetta was written in a visual medium too, and looked what happened there.

To be fair, the screenwriters didn't follow the book's story very closely when adapting that one.  But I'm already on record as liking the film in spite of it.

I got sucked into seeing it because 1: it was based on my favorite comic  and 2: the trailer looked great.  Imagine my disappointment.  I mean, really, the director Mcteigh didn't even bother to have the right symphony playing when V blew up the Bailey.  I began to hate it about 15 minutes in, and loathed it by the end (other than the one supercool fight scene near the end and the always impressive John Hurt {what the hell did they have him on anyway?  did you see the size of his pupils?}).  It's is almost as if the Wachowski Brothers decided they wanted to ruin it on purpose.

/rant off

In any case, I stand by my above opinion, I don't think Watchmen can be adapted.  Even if the screen-play was written by Moore himself and it was directed by zombie Kubrick.

[birdless]

I just read in a EW article (still reading it, in fact), that Moore is in the "can't be adapted to screen" camp. In fact, he's had his name pulled from any credits and has "abdicated his royalty check to Gibbons" (which, if that wasn't simply a clever pun by the writer, was a pretty classy move, imo). What I found even more interesting, though, was that Zack Snyder (the director) was formerly of the camp that it couldn't be made into a movie, and, from what he said in the article, i'm not sure he isn't still in that camp.

Many in Hollywood have tried to get Watchmen on film and failed, including… Bourne Supremacy director Paul Greengrass. In 2005, Greengrass was deep into preproduction on a present-day, war-on-terror-themed adaptation… when a regime change at Paramount Pictures led to its demise. Enter Warner Bros., which acquired the rights in late 2005. Snyder was working on 300 for the studio at the time, and he was alarmed when he heard the deal. After some soul-searching, his fear of seeing a bad Watchmen movie trumped his fear of trying to make a great one. “They were going to do it anyway,” he says. “And that made me nervous.” Over many months, and many meetings, Snyder persuaded Warner Bros. to abandon the [Greengrass] script and hew as faithfully as possible to the comic.

The article also said that Jude Law (among other big-brand celebrities) was interested in the Greengrass production (which i am SO glad didn't make it out of preproduction!!!), but Snyder felt celebrity would detract from the substance. But good call by DK!

And apparently Nite Owl is going to have a pot-belly:

Patrick Wilson came aboard first and immediately started packing on weight to play the potbellied, middle-aged Nite Owl.

Snyder's current cut is 3 hours long, but it'll likely be pared down to 2 hours 25 minutes by the time it hits theaters. Hopefully the DVD will have a Director's Cut. One thing I'm a little worried about though:
[small spoiler]the "catastrophic climax is different."[/small spoiler]

And, lastly, my favorite quote from the article:

Snyder remembers screening some Watchmen footage for an unnamed studio executive. Afterward, Snyder says, the exec turned to him and said, “This makes Superman look stupid.”

[DKT]

The article also said that Jude Law (among other big-brand celebrities) was interested in the Greengrass production (which i am SO glad didn't make it out of preproduction!!!), but Snyder felt celebrity would detract from the substance. But good call by DK!

In some alternate universe, I make a good living as a casting director 

I think it's interesting Snyder attempted to make Watchmen because he was worried somebody else might mess it up if they were going to "do it anyway."  I'm trying to figure out if that makes me like him more, or less.  (Right now, I'm leaning toward more, even though I like Greengrass in general.)

And, lastly, my favorite quote from the article:

Snyder remembers screening some Watchmen footage for an unnamed studio executive. Afterward, Snyder says, the exec turned to him and said, “This makes Superman look stupid.”

That's not hard.  Superman Returns made Superman look stupid