Author Topic: Why I will never again buy or read anything with Orson Scott Card's name on it.  (Read 22416 times)

deflective

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So suck on that, advocates of gay marriage!  You don't have a leg to stand on!

you want advocates of gay marriage to kneel and suck?



Tango Alpha Delta

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Heheh... you had me riled up until I saw that.  NOW you've convinced me.  ;)

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stePH

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So suck on that, advocates of gay marriage!  You don't have a leg to stand on!

you want advocates of gay marriage to kneel and suck?

They're going to anyway ...  ;D

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DKT

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So suck on that, advocates of gay marriage!  You don't have a leg to stand on!

you want advocates of gay marriage to kneel and suck?

Dude, you win some kind of No-Prize for that one.


Planish

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I have never read any OSC because...
1. Nothing in the publishers' blurbs made it sound at all interesting.
2. Nothing in the cover art made it look at all interesting.
3. Nobody I know in meatspace ever said "ooh, read this, you'll like it" about any OSC works.

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Boggled Coriander

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I have never read any OSC because...
1. Nothing in the publishers' blurbs made it sound at all interesting.
2. Nothing in the cover art made it look at all interesting.
3. Nobody I know in meatspace ever said "ooh, read this, you'll like it" about any OSC works.

Well...  If you're turned off enough by his political writings that you don't want to take the time to read his fiction, I have no problem with that.  (Heck, I understand it.)  But there's a collection of his short stories out there called Maps in a Mirror that contains some absolutely beautiful stories as well as some amusing little pieces.

Which makes OSC's opinion pieces all the more heartbreaking.  Not because I disagree with him, but rather because he's writing for a reader devoid of rational thought and he doesn't seem to think anyone capable of critical thinking is going to be reading him.  Dammit, I don't mind disagreeing but I know he's better than that.

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Sandikal

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I will never again read Orson Scott Card because I recently read "Ender's Game" for an online group and was seriously underwhelmed.  I was also blown away at the reaction I got when I stated that I didn't like it very much.  It was like I said that God was dead.  You'd think that the guy was the best writer since Shakespeare.  I might have thought differently if I had read him as a teen, but he hadn't written anything then.



Planish

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Well...  If you're turned off enough by his political writings that you don't want to take the time to read his fiction, I have no problem with that.  (Heck, I understand it.)  But there's a collection of his short stories out there called Maps in a Mirror that contains some absolutely beautiful stories as well as some amusing little pieces.

No doubt. My point is that I was never aware of his political writings, so I wasn't turned off by them.

I don't agree with a lot of Heinlein's soapbox rants (particularly in the later works), but I still regard him as one of the greatest SF writers evar.

Quote from: Oscar Wilde
It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.

As long as I'm entertained or engaged by the story, I can ignore the author's politics.

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CGFxColONeill

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http://mormontimes.com/ME_blogs.php?id=1586

I never really cared for his work in the first place, but his long slide to the far right during the past 20 or so years coupled with his popularity and influence in the genre really picks my ass.  My boycott of his work may not accomplish much, but quite frankly Card could die in a fire and I would not shed a single tear.  I will see if I can dig up a link to  the interview where he calls G.W. Bush "the greatest president in one hundred years".

Mr. Card, please remove yourself from public life and cease all writing.  You no longer deserve an audience.
On almost any other forum I would have said you were trying to start a flame war or something...
I dont agree with the thought process that " that person does not share the same political views as me. therefore I will hate their work and say they are idiots" ( rough paraphrase on my part here) view but that is the beauty of America ( and the internet for those of you in other parts of the world).  We dont have to agree on anything.
I personally read stories strictly for entertainment value, I could care less about any political agenda they may or may not be trying to get across.  I already know what I believe and a book is necessarily going to make me change that so why not enjoy a good story, now if you happen not to like a particular authors writing style that is another thing entirely, but to say I am not going to read a good story just because of the authors political statements is not something I personally agree with, but see above about agreement
as for the politics of his statement I am not going there one way or the other ( personal policy lol)

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errant371

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http://mormontimes.com/ME_blogs.php?id=1586

I never really cared for his work in the first place, but his long slide to the far right during the past 20 or so years coupled with his popularity and influence in the genre really picks my ass.  My boycott of his work may not accomplish much, but quite frankly Card could die in a fire and I would not shed a single tear.  I will see if I can dig up a link to  the interview where he calls G.W. Bush "the greatest president in one hundred years".

Mr. Card, please remove yourself from public life and cease all writing.  You no longer deserve an audience.
On almost any other forum I would have said you were trying to start a flame war or something...
I dont agree with the thought process that " that person does not share the same political views as me. therefore I will hate their work and say they are idiots" ( rough paraphrase on my part here) view but that is the beauty of America ( and the internet for those of you in other parts of the world).  We dont have to agree on anything.
I personally read stories strictly for entertainment value, I could care less about any political agenda they may or may not be trying to get across.  I already know what I believe and a book is necessarily going to make me change that so why not enjoy a good story, now if you happen not to like a particular authors writing style that is another thing entirely, but to say I am not going to read a good story just because of the authors political statements is not something I personally agree with, but see above about agreement
as for the politics of his statement I am not going there one way or the other ( personal policy lol)

Card's work has grown steadily worse along with his growing political and social irrationality.  The two seem to be distinctly linked.  Have you read any of the reviews of his latest novel, or the novel itself?  Did you read the link I provided?  Say what you will about freedom of speech and the right to not agree, that is all well and good, but the kind of polemic Card posted is nothing more than hate-speech.  Plain and simple.  At the risk of Godwinning my own thread, it is the same kind of crap that Goebbels spewed.

Furthermore, your paraphrase of my statement is not just rough, it is totally inaccurate.  Had you read any of my other posts in this thread you would see that I have no problem with authors of differing political views, and I certainly won't call them idiots just because I don't agree with them.  I won't buy or read any more OSC because I find him and his views morally, ethically and personally repugnant and I refuse to support him monetarily by buying his ever decreasing-quality output. 

What part of 'Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn' didn't you understand?


CGFxColONeill

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Card's work has grown steadily worse along with his growing political and social irrationality.  The two seem to be distinctly linked.  Have you read any of the reviews of his latest novel, or the novel itself?  Did you read the link I provided?  Say what you will about freedom of speech and the right to not agree, that is all well and good, but the kind of polemic Card posted is nothing more than hate-speech.  Plain and simple.  At the risk of Godwinning my own thread, it is the same kind of crap that Goebbels spewed.

Furthermore, your paraphrase of my statement is not just rough, it is totally inaccurate.  Had you read any of my other posts in this thread you would see that I have no problem with authors of differing political views, and I certainly won't call them idiots just because I don't agree with them.  I won't buy or read any more OSC because I find him and his views morally, ethically and personally repugnant and I refuse to support him monetarily by buying his ever decreasing-quality output. 

which book are you talking about? Empire is the latest one I have read, I did not think it was that bad.
I thought I had covered your main points I am sorry I missed some...
I did not mean for the paraphrase to be inaccurate that is what I got from reading your post, my mistake I guess

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errant371

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which book are you talking about? Empire is the latest one I have read, I did not think it was that bad.
I thought I had covered your main points I am sorry I missed some...
I did not mean for the paraphrase to be inaccurate that is what I got from reading your post, my mistake I guess

I didn't mean to come off sounding snarky.  I appologise for my tone, it was unintentional (which is why speaking is a more accurate transfer of information than writing).

I was indeed refering to the new Empire books (the ones where the US government implodes).  I have read worse, but they are nowhere near the competency, literacy, or intelligence OSC has displayed earlier in his career.  Then again, he is writing a novelization of a video game.

What part of 'Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn' didn't you understand?


Russell Nash

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These forums are just too cool.  I was about to step in and ask for a little temper calming.  You guys stepped back and did it on your own.  I'm very impressed.  If this is the way you guys fight, keep going.



Heradel

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Catching up on threads right now (I was at the beach last week, still getting the sand out), and I was going to go off again on how disappointing Empire was and how, while I certainly don't like his politics, that was what was going to keep me from picking up anything of his again, but lo, I remembered I already spent 1.6k words on the subject, so I don't really need to. 


I Twitter. I also occasionally blog on the Escape Pod blog, which if you're here you shouldn't have much trouble finding.


Russell Nash

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Catching up on threads right now (I was at the beach last week, still getting the sand out), and I was going to go off again on how disappointing Empire was and how, while I certainly don't like his politics, that was what was going to keep me from picking up anything of his again, but lo, I remembered I already spent 1.6k words on the subject, so I don't really need to. 



Wow, you were long winded a year and a half ago.



Heradel

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Catching up on threads right now (I was at the beach last week, still getting the sand out), and I was going to go off again on how disappointing Empire was and how, while I certainly don't like his politics, that was what was going to keep me from picking up anything of his again, but lo, I remembered I already spent 1.6k words on the subject, so I don't really need to. 
Wow, you were long winded a year and a half ago.

I had a lot more free time a year and a half ago (editing a student newspaper looks good on a resume, but not a daily planner). Plus I really got pissed off.

I Twitter. I also occasionally blog on the Escape Pod blog, which if you're here you shouldn't have much trouble finding.


Zathras

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I must be listening to the wrong podcasts in Escapepod and Pseudopod.  I can't stand Podcastle, but that's an audio quality issue.  I am fairly conservative compared to most of this forum.  I am a libertarian.

I geuss I'll go buy some OSC books instead of contributing here.  Or maybe some Terry Goodkind, as his books actually are written with a political perspective that I agree with.

Gonna stop here before I go nuclear.



CGFxColONeill

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*snip*
 (which is why speaking is a more accurate transfer of information than writing).
2x

Thanks Russell I am glad to be a part of such a great group of people
even if I dont actually know any of them lol

Overconfidence - Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you could survive the odds beating you.

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Russell Nash

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I must be listening to the wrong podcasts in Escapepod and Pseudopod.  I can't stand Podcastle, but that's an audio quality issue.  I am fairly conservative compared to most of this forum.  I am a libertarian.

I geuss I'll go buy some OSC books instead of contributing here.  Or maybe some Terry Goodkind, as his books actually are written with a political perspective that I agree with.

Gonna stop here before I go nuclear.

Zathras, I'm not making any comment on your beliefs, but did you read what Card wrote?  If you still believe that way after reading it, That's cool.  The point is that he isn't on the right.  It's that he has gone so far over, he jumped off the edge.  Also the writing in his articles is horrible and the reasoning is deeply flawed.

For me it's not a question of belief.  When people have to lie and use such awful reasoning to make their point, I can't support their position, even if i agreed with them before they started. 

My father argues like that.  I have told him to never support one of my positions.  The fastest way for him to change my mind is for him to argue my point.



Zathras

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I didn't read his article, and I don't plan on it.  I will take it on faith that he's a far right kook.  When Steve talks about some of the podcasts that don't agree with my belief systems, I don't stop listening to Escapepod.  My point is that I don't care what someone's political beliefs are.  I will support Escapepod and Pseudopod, but if OSC puts out another book, I will probably read it. 


Just for the record, I hardly EVER buy a new book.  One of my biggest enjoyments in life is to find a new, quality used bookstore.



matweller

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As an amusing afterthought to all of this, I decided I would not see the Ender's Game movie in the theater because while I agree that an author's personal politics/actions do not invalidate his or her work, paying for that work does support the the source of the bigotry. It wasn't a hard decision, but I did hesitate for 20 seconds before making it because the Ender series is probably my favorite sic-fi series and Ender's Game may be my all-time favorite sic-fi book.

I did decide I would see it if it came on Netflix streaming since the royalties at that stage are minuscule, but it hadn't been appearing, so I out it out of mind. But I got an email today that DirecTV is having a free HBO/Cinemax weekend and Ender's Game is on Cinemax this weekend. So, not only will I get to see the movie, but the royalty is now a degree smaller than Netflix, and it comes at Cinemax's expense rather than mine. It's probably the second most perfect possible outcome, so I'll take it.  :)



Cutter McKay

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Don't get your hopes up to high. Ender's Game is probably my favorite Sci-fi novel as well, and though they did an admirable job with the movie, it's far too rushed. I desperately wish they would have taken a cue from Peter Jackson and broken it into two movies. Part One could have taken us through Launch School and climaxed with the fight with Bonzo, then Part Two could start with the transfer to Command School. Would have worked so much better.

Trying to cram it all into one film cut out a lot of the philosophies behind the story and turned all the supporting characters into cardboard.

Still, for what it is, it's still fun to finally see it on the screen.

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Devoted135

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it's far too rushed.

This was my problem exactly. It wasn't awful, but it certainly didn't live up to my love of the book.



DKT

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Yeah, I ended up watching it with Emma. She teaches Ender's Game to high school students. She ranted through the whole thing.

The acting was fine, and it looked nice enough, but it really only took the surface of the novel, and didn't try to go much deeper. (Frex: I never understood why anyone would have that much faith in Ender's leadership skillz in this movie, the way I did in the novel.)



matweller

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Yeah, I was disappointed. Even on a free Cinimax weekend I feel like I paid too much. As a fan of the book, I know my criticism is probably slanted, but honestly I'm not sure who that movie was for. It didn't have enough cohesive content to have any meaning for someone unfamiliar with the story, and it didn't explore the major themes enough to bring anything to life for someone who was a fan of the story. They should have skipped Earth altogether and spent that saved 10 minutes on better getting across the tedium of the constantly increasing battle schedule, then made Petra the Valentine character so he never had to leave the station for his freak out.

Guh. I hate to see any movie miss this badly. Multiply that by how much I treasure the story, and you'll get the depths of my disappointment.