PC027: Red Riding-Hood’s Child

[Heradel]

PC027: Red Riding-Hood’s Child

By N. K. Jemisin.
Read by Rajan Khanna.
Introduction by Rachel Swirsky.
First appeared in Fishnet Magazine.

Once upon a time in a tiny woodland village there lived an orphan boy. As his mother had been less than proper in her ways — she died unwed, known well to several men — the villagers were not kindly-disposed toward the tiny burden she left behind. They were not heartless, however. They reared young Anrin with as much tenderness as a child of low breeding could expect, and they taught him the value of honest labor so that he might repay their kindness before his mother’s ways took root.

By the cusp of manhood — that age when worthier lads began to consider a trade and marriage — Anrin had become a youth of fortitude and peculiar innocence. The villagers kept him at arms’ length from their homes and their hearts, so he chose instead to dwell within an eccentric world of his own making. The horses and pigs snorted greetings when he came to feed them, and he offered solemn, courtly bows in response. When the villagers sent him unarmed into the forest to fetch wood, he went eagerly. Alone amid the dappled shadows he felt less lonely than usual, and the trees’ whispers were never cruel.

Indeed, Anrin’s fascination with the forest was a source of great anxiety to the old woodcutter’s widow who boarded him at nights. She warned him of the dangers: poison mushrooms and hidden pitfalls and choking, stinging ivies. And wolves, of course; always the wolves. “Stay on the path, and stay close to the village,” she cautioned. “The smell of men keeps predators away… most of the time.”

Rated X. Contains sex and wolves.

[wintermute]

Did not like.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Mmm... Rajan Khanna's lovely voice reading wolf smut.  What could be better?

I found this story's arc fairly predictible, but I enjoyed listening to it unfold.  And I was so pleased to hear Mr. Khanna narrating again!

Hmm

[thomasowenm]

Care for a strawberry little boy???   I am definitely  do not enjoy slash, however if someone was able to overlook the erotic elements (but I couldn't) this story  had great potential.  A child of Red's growing up alone with wolf blood.  This could have really been something, learning to deal with his two separate natures, but it only dealt with his sexuality (what a disappointment).

[stePH]

Care for a strawberry little boy???   I am definitely  do not enjoy slash, however if someone was able to overlook the erotic elements (but I couldn't) this story  had great potential.  A child of Red's growing up alone with wolf blood.  This could have really been something, learning to deal with his two separate natures, but it only dealt with his sexuality (what a disappointment).

Please ... the gay blacksmith is almost as cliche as the hardware store owner who wears ladies' underwear. 

But seriously ... didn't love the story, didn't hate it.  Not a complete waste of my listening time but not a particularly good use of it either.

[Void Munashii]

  Do not want!

  I certainly cannot say I was not well warned at the beginning of the story, but I listened to it anyway. I'm not sorry I listened or anything, but furry slash is not my cup of strawberries. Cheers for trying something new, but please feel free to keep the furry slash for a new podcast, Furry-Pawed maybe.

  It was a learning experience though; I always thought lycanthropy was just spread through the bite, I did not realize it was an STD. Makes sense though.

[stePH]

 Cheers for trying something new, but please feel free to keep the furry slash for a new podcast, Furry-Pawed maybe.

 

[Old Man Parker]

Gay werewolfs? You go GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR-irl!

[wintermute]

feel free to keep the furry slash for a new podcast, Furry-Pawed maybe.

QuadruPod?

[zZzacha]

wOw... Podcastle has such nice stories about fairies and castles and dragons. So cute and sweet and dragony.

This story was a bit shocking for the image I had of Podcastle stories. It was so dark. I kept expecting a sweet princess to come and save the boy so that he wouldn't get raped by anyone. She never came. Not even a dragon. I honestly never expected such a heavy, dark horror story in the listing of Podcastle. No, I'm not starting a thread about genres or anything, I just never expected such a dark story in this corner of the Pods.

Besides the darkness of the story, I expected a different ending. Usually I'm a bit disappointed when a story seems to go in some direction and at The End you find out that it really did just that: go in that direction and I never got to be surprised by a different option along the way. I love being surprised, and this story did no such thing.

Looking forward to next week's episode, because overall, Podcastle has great stories

[Hatton]

Amazingly, I managed to listen to this story all the way to the end without my homophobia kicking in!

Very dark, Grimm-esque tale, well written and read to perfection.  I would have rather had the child be a girl, would have made more sense with the strawberries and the wolf, but since alpha dogs will hump lower dogs to force them to submit, I don't see where wolves or even werewolves would be any different.  Maybe that's why I didn't stop listening, I know at least that much about the animal kingdom.

I'm surprised that more people haven't liked the tone of this tale - not every fantasy story can be about the Paladin or the Mage.  Even the Thief in fantasy lore gets off easy.  The dark and middle ages were messy, ugly places where ignorance was the rule rather than the exception.  It's nice to see a story that shows that.

Technical note - there was a hum in part of the recording and not in the other... made me think, "well, guess they had to pause for a while."

[DaveQat]

I really liked this...  Of course, I might be a bit biased on that score.  I liked the spin on the classic fairy tale motifs, including the poor corrupted innocent, since he seemed to enjoy his corruption quite a bit, thank you very much.

[Ocicat]

I quite liked the atmosphere.  And for the record, I'm glad the protagonist was a boy rather than a girl.  Sure, I'm a heterosexual male, and might have thought the wolfsex was hotter if it was heterosexual - but I think it was meant to be a bit disturbing, and not just hot.  And I'm well aware that young boys are sexually preyed upon, and it tends to get vastly under reported. 

But ya, about that wolfsex.  It did devolve a bit into Slash territory.  Which is a shame, since the general atmosphere was so dark and well done. 

[Void Munashii]

I quite liked the atmosphere.  And for the record, I'm glad the protagonist was a boy rather than a girl.  Sure, I'm a heterosexual male, and might have thought the wolfsex was hotter if it was heterosexual - but I think it was meant to be a bit disturbing, and not just hot.

  The wolf could have been having it off with Scarlett Johansson, and I still would not have found it hot. I agree though, it seems pretty clear to me that it was meant to be a disturbing scene regardless how hot one may or may not have found it.

[eytanz]

I liked the story a lot. And I was surprised by people who saw it as overly dark - yes, it starts out pretty bad for our young hero, but by the end he gets a lover and the ability to turn into a wolf. I'd say he did quite well for himself.

I did find the sex scene somewhat ridiculous; I found myself wishing it was either less explicit, or moreso, but the line about how a part of the wolf's body that was previously deflated was now sticking out, without actually naming the bodypart in question, felt a bit juvenile to me.

[ThunderBunny]

I've loved pretty much everything that PodCastle has had to offer, and this was no exception.

You picked the perfect narrator, he had the perfect voice for this.  And yes, I'm gay and I found the sex to be a bit hot.  But, I was imagining him more in his human-esque form when they were together.

Anyway, kudos to the author for stepping outside and having some gay leads.  I love my podcast community and the fantasy stories I've found out there and this is the first one (that I've found) to feature a gay themed story.

Well done and keep them coming!

[hoyajon]

 

"...this week's Podcastle brought to you by NAMBLA."

I really believe in freedom of speech and expression, but this particular subject gives me the creeps.  Having been a prosecutor for the past 12 years, I have seen people who use this type of "first experience" literature as inspiration for bringing their own criminal fantasies into reality.  And then use it as a justification for the harm they have done, saying that if society approves because it is published, it must be all right, regardless of the damage done to the victim.  You, as the publisher, may not intend for that to be your message.  But that is what some take away from that particular episode.

[eytanz]

Um, what? I don't know how old the protagonist was, but I'm pretty sure he was of age.

[Void Munashii]

"...this week's Podcastle brought to you by NAMBLA."

I really believe in freedom of speech and expression, but this particular subject gives me the creeps.  Having been a prosecutor for the past 12 years, I have seen people who use this type of "first experience" literature as inspiration for bringing their own criminal fantasies into reality.  And then use it as a justification for the harm they have done, saying that if society approves because it is published, it must be all right, regardless of the damage done to the victim.  You, as the publisher, may not intend for that to be your message.  But that is what some take away from that particular episode.

  How old did you think the main character was? I pegged him as being at least in his mid-teens, being past the age at which most boys pick a trade and all.

  I can see that you have a unique perspective on that sort of subject matter, but I would hate for any of the Escape Artists editors to ever reject a story because they are afraid of what a very small segment of the population might take from it.

  In any case, I'm pretty sure the kiddy-fiddlers can find plenty of their preferred reading material around the net without having to resort to coming here.

[nojojojo]

Hey, all -- N. K. Jemisin here, the story's author.  Was going to stay silent and just watch from the sidelines on this one, but I guess I'd better clear a couple of things up.

For those who see this story as an endorsement of child porn... Well, I guess it could be read that way if you squint and tilt your head sideways.  But I would've just let the smith rape Anrin if that was the case, and I would've just eroticized that rape.  And I would have made Anrin specifically a child, rather than old enough to marry in his society as I noted early on in the story.  In medieval Europe, boys generally married (if they had the money and status to marry) around age 17 or 18.

For those who would rather have seen this story done with a female protagonist so that the sex could be het -- just note, I probably would have had to make her 12 or 13, the usual age of marriage for girls in that era.  It wouldn't be realistic for a girl in her position to have reached 17 untouched.  But if that's your preference, there are actually quite a few Red Riding Hood stories out there which place a female protagonist in a sexual victim's role.  Red Riding Hood itself can be read that way; there are literally dozens of versions of this tale, and not all of them treat the sexuality in a symbolic/allegorical manner.  For example, I read a version in which she had to buy the woodcutter's help to save her grandmother, using the only currency she had.

Double standards re gender roles is one of the reasons I went the direction I did with this story.  (How interesting that so many people have fixed on the mention of slash in the intro, but not the mention of deconstruction!)

Anyway, for more explorations of this myth in heterosexual directions: in addition to the Sondheim musical mentioned in the intro, the cult classic movie "A Company of Wolves" plays more explicitly with this concept  (though the female protag is probably about Anrin's age, not the more usual 12).  It's also not porn, but still pretty blatantly sexual, hairy-palmed men and all.  For literary takes on the concept, I'd recommend Snow White, Blood Red, an anthology edited by Datlow and Windling from about 10 years ago http://www.amazon.com/Snow-White-Blood-Ellen-Datlow/dp/0380718758.  They did several "adult reworkings of fairy tales" anths, as I recall, but this is the one I read.  Not just the RRH myth in that one, but they take on a number of the classic fairy tales and the not-so-hidden dark sexuality of their original, unsanitized/unmodernized forms.  (I remember them noting one early version of Sleeping Beauty that featured her waking to the suckling of her infant child, not the prince's kiss -- the prince had already been there, raped her in her sleep, and was long gone.)

For those who'd like to see other homoerotic takes on wolf mythology (though not Red Riding-Hood in this case), there's a German film called "The Wolves of Kromer" (sp? Maybe Kroemer) that does an interesting depiction.

Oh, almost forgot; a few more clarifications.  a) Anrin was not raped by the wolf.  I'm not sure why people are referring to this as rape; I tried to draw a pretty clear concept between what the smith tried to force (rape) and what Anrin chose (not rape).  b) The wolf was in human form during the sex scene.  (Wolves can't have sex in the missionary position as far as I know.)  And c) The sex also had nothing to do with dominance/submission.  There are a number of species in which we've observed homosexual pairbonds in nature; it's rare but it happens.  Wolves, who mate for life, are one of these species.

I tend to believe that a story speaks for itself; a writer should never "explain" her work, because if she has to do that then she didn't do a good job of writing it in the first place.  But I'm seeing some misconceptions here that don't make sense, and I'm not sure whether that's my fault or something else is going on, so I hope this clears things up for everyone.

[eytanz]

Double standards re gender roles is one of the reasons I went the direction I did with this story.  (How interesting that so many people have fixed on the mention of slash in the intro, but not the mention of deconstruction!)

Well, slash may be shocking to some and worthy of attention, but the D-word is just perverse and wrong and utterly unspeakable

 (Wolves can't have sex in the missionary position as far as I know.)

Not with another wolf, but they probably could with a human.

I must say I've been very surprised by the rape comments as well. I thought the story made it very, very clear that the sex was consensual. I guess that if one read the story thinking of Anrin as a child it could be viewed as false consent, but I don't think the story supports that either.

[wintermute]

just note, I probably would have had to make her 12 or 13, the usual age of marriage for girls in that era.  It wouldn't be realistic for a girl in her position to have reached 17 untouched.

The average age of marriage in noble families, where an early alliance was advantageous, was between 16 and 18. In peasant families, where marriage was of no consequence for anyone other than the couple, the average age of marriage was between 18 and 22. This, of course, varies, depending on exactly when you intend "that era" to be, and what country you're talking about. But at no point anywhere in medieval Europe would the marriage of a 12-year-old girl be considered normal. In Britain between the 13th and 16th centuries, for example, the legal minimum age for marriage was 24.

True, there were a small handful of high-profile diplomatic weddings that involved minors (Prince Arthur, Henry VIII's brother, married Catherine of Aragon when he was 14; and Henry Tudor married the 12-year-old Margaret Beaufort), but these examples are notable for their rarity.

[stePH]

True, there were a small handful of high-profile diplomatic weddings that involved minors (Prince Arthur, Henry VIII's brother, married Catherine of Aragon when he was 14; and Henry Tudor married the 12-year-old Margaret Beaufort), but these examples are notable for their rarity.

And don't forget the marriage of Princess Leia of Hungary to Prince Edmund "The Black Adder" 

[Listener]

The story was vivid and interesting, but I didn't like it for a couple of reasons:

1. The word "gaze" seemed like it was used once every couple of minutes. I am helping to edit a friend's romance novel, so maybe I'm sensitized to it, but seriously... gaze... hit the thesaurus.

2. It felt more like erotica because the sex was the climactic activity. I would almost have expected this on Nobilis's podcast, not PodCastle.

Nothing against erotica -- I write plenty of it myself -- but when the intro said the first time the author read Red Riding Hood was right around the time she was introduced to slash fic, I knew exactly where this story was going. Another instance of the intro spoiling the story to some extent.

The reading was good. I liked how the reader sped up and slowed down in places to make the story flow better.

[Void Munashii]

Nothing against erotica -- I write plenty of it myself -- but when the intro said the first time the author read Red Riding Hood was right around the time she was introduced to slash fic, I knew exactly where this story was going. Another instance of the intro spoiling the story to some extent.

  I can see how it could be considered spoilage, but I also view it as a fair warning. The warning at the top of the show was only for sexual content, which I am not a huge fan of in fiction, but it's okay if I know about it in advance. I think my reaction to the story would have been more negative had I gotten to that point and discovered surprise furry sex; although I suppose if I did not see it coming, I would deserve it.

[Rachel Swirsky]

Just a couple notes, from an editorial/pedant's perspective: ;-)

(I remember them noting one early version of Sleeping Beauty that featured her waking to the suckling of her infant child, not the prince's kiss -- the prince had already been there, raped her in her sleep, and was long gone.)

Yeah, Sleeping Beauty actually isn't a traditional folk tale. It was a novel written, I think, in the Victorian era. And she wasn't wakened by a kiss -- the prince raped her in her sleep, and she gave birth to twins.

Anyway, kudos to the author for stepping outside and having some gay leads.  I love my podcast community and the fantasy stories I've found out there and this is the first one (that I've found) to feature a gay themed story.

It sucks that this is the case, but I'm glad we were able to bring you something that you liked.

I really believe in freedom of speech and expression, but this particular subject gives me the creeps.  Having been a prosecutor for the past 12 years, I have seen people who use this type of "first experience" literature as inspiration for bringing their own criminal fantasies into reality.  And then use it as a justification for the harm they have done, saying that if society approves because it is published, it must be all right, regardless of the damage done to the victim.  You, as the publisher, may not intend for that to be your message.  But that is what some take away from that particular episode.

If this story took place in the modern era, you might have a point. However, sexual mores have changed (drastically) through time, and perhaps even more drastically from region to region. When PodCastle runs stories that take place not-now, not-here, sometimes they will show things that fit the morality of the region where the story takes place rather than the morality of our own culture.

[Old Man Parker]

Good Story!
Lots of great fairy tale imagry. Sex with a minor? The old woman says "You are no longer a boy." - so, come on, he old enough to have sex. Kudos for picking the right sounding reader, by the by.
Funny how women can write such great gay fictional characters. This made me think of the amazing vampire works of Poppy Z. Brite.

[badbaleroybrown]

 Note to self - never, EVER skip the intro again. NEVER!

and EWWWWWW.

I'm hetero. But pretty sure I wouldn't have enjoyed this if the protagonist were female .  The graphic sex didn't really move the story forward. All in all it was a pretty weak story offering all the plot one might expect from cheap porn. The only thing that made this fantasy was warewolves. The characters could have been space aliens, elves, (or cowboys) without changing the story a bit.

[MacArthurBug]

I, personally, really liked this.  Dark, sexy, a little scary.  Great as a whole.  Luckally I listen to casts BEFORE I let my daughter listen (She loves the castle) and warned her about this one.   I personally liked it, she listned for a bit and skipped it - having decided she didn't like it.

[redrum71]

Loved it! Kudos to the author and narrator.

I'm more of an Escape Pod and Pseudopod fan, but stories like this one will keep me coming back to PodCastle.   

[Rachel Swirsky]

I personally liked it, she listned for a bit and skipped it - having decided she didn't like it.

Ha. I used to do that as a kid. My parents would rent an R-rated move, I'd watch with them for five minutes, and then wander off, completely bored. It's one reason I don't have much of an intuitive understanding for why ratings are important, personally. As a kid, I, at least, was pretty good at filtering for my own maturity level. Sex? Eh. I'd rather go read in my room.

[Anarkey]

If you liked this story, I would recommend Elizabeth Bear and Sarah Monette's collaborative effort "A Companion to Wolves".  It's quick and easy reading, with plenty of man on man action and companion wolves (though no direct wolf-man action).

[JoeFitz]

Yeah, Sleeping Beauty actually isn't a traditional folk tale. It was a novel written, I think, in the Victorian era. And she wasn't wakened by a kiss -- the prince raped her in her sleep, and she gave birth to twins.

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou.

http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/sleepingbeauty/history.html

[JoeFitz]

Double standards re gender roles is one of the reasons I went the direction I did with this story.  (How interesting that so many people have fixed on the mention of slash in the intro, but not the mention of deconstruction!)

Slash, ironically, is less hard er... difficult to grasp... er... understand than Deconstruction.

[JoeFitz]

I did find the sex scene somewhat ridiculous; I found myself wishing it was either less explicit, or moreso, but the line about how a part of the wolf's body that was previously deflated was now sticking out, without actually naming the bodypart in question, felt a bit juvenile to me.

Agreed. Had those passages been absent, I think it would have still be perfectly obvious what was going on.

[l33tminion]

Agreed. Had those passages been absent, I think it would have still be perfectly obvious what was going on.

*shrugs*  True enough, but I've (sadly) seen much worse uses of euphemism.

[ladyjai]

Good thing I tend to multitask when listening to Pod stories, otherwise I'd want my 25 minutes back.

Not being familiar with slash, I only had a hint of what might happen. I still found the purpose of the story to be not worth my time. A coming of age sex scene which changes the main character into a human killing monster? I don't think the characters were built well enough for me to buy it.

We never got enough of character development between him and Baba to allow for him seeing her death to be the inspiration to go predator. I realize I see things through my own, not so darkly lit world, but I honestly half expected him to go wolfy so he could have the power to kill the monster, and then as a result, became the monster.

The MC really didn't seem to be setup to fully make that transformation from obedient kid who had no passions into bloodthirsty monster. Where were the hints that something darker lurked in his soul?

And why didn't the blacksmith ever kill the villagers? Or was he going to let his new companion run amock, since his sole purpose was obtaining the kid?

And did anyone have thoughts that, since this IS a red riding hood kidlet story and the blacksmith "killed" the wolf who took her innocence, that the MC could be actually the blacksmith's SON. Especially if he had wolfy blood in him already.
It was hinted that she was a whore, but the story relies on our knowing a prior fairy tale. why wouldn't a deflowered girl be forced into whoredom to support herself and her new child?

I'll be glad for a different variety of tea next week.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Well, this one certainly got more than its share of controversy... Both here and in the comments on the story itself.

As I said... I enjoyed this one.  But I don't mind stories with sex and shapeshifters.  My only complaint is that there was no place where the narrative surprised me.  It went right where I expected it to.

Hmm

[Rain]

I dont want to be a prude of anything but this story has really lowered opinion of Podcastle a little, poorly written slashfiction like this seems way below the normal standard of quality you get here. I dont mind slashfiction in general and if i ever read it, it is just to laugh at how bad it is, it is not something i expected from a "serious" podcast that has shown it can get good stories.

[TimWhite]

I wanted to give myself a few days before I replied on this one, so that perhaps I could come up with something more eloquent than my first reaction, which was a vehement "W....T.....F?".

While the homosexuality of the story threw me for an initial loop that I quickly got over, it was the forced pedophilic sex ("I'll give you the illusion of freewill, but in the end remove your other options so as to give you no choice but to come back and do things my way") that ended up leaving me shaking my head in a "I'm not sure if I can trust the editors of this podcast" manner.

Regardless of historical precedent, this story felt like simple softcore furry slash, with an overly long and pretentious setup and an unwelcome overtone of manipulative pedophilic incestuous (hello, blacksmith and his mother) rape.  Which I'm sure one could find plenty of on the internet, were one seeking such.

I understand from the other comments that is wasn't "technically" pedophilia by standards-of-the-time-oh-wait-its-fantasy-what-time-are-we-really-talking-about-here-I-don't-recall-hearing-a-date, but the overtone was unmistakable and not allayed by offhand comments about marriageable age interspersed with repeated allusions to unspoiled innocence.

The only thing that kept me listening all the way till the end was the vain hope that there would be some sort of interesting twist.  But, no.

As a writer, I hate writing responses like this, because I'd hate to get a response like this to my work.  So, I'm targeting this response at the editors, because while the story might have value in another venue, in this venue, it not only didn't work, but it lowered my (and from the responses I see above a lot of other people's) opinion of PodCastle.

But in the end, all those words don't come close to my initial and continuing reaction, which is still "W....T....F?"

Tim

[stePH]

And why didn't the blacksmith ever kill the villagers? Or was he going to let his new companion run amock, since his sole purpose was obtaining the kid?

And did anyone have thoughts that, since this IS a red riding hood kidlet story and the blacksmith "killed" the wolf who took her innocence, that the MC could be actually the blacksmith's SON. Especially if he had wolfy blood in him already.

Did you hear the same story I did?  The blacksmith wasn't the wolf.  The kid ran away from the blacksmith to the wolf.  I imagined that the first place he would go after his becoming wolf would be to exact his revenge on the smith.

[vilate]

I haven't decided whether or not I really enjoyed this story, but it sure has stuck with me.

I understand the negative comments about the sex scene and the story in general, but I don't necessarily agree with the negative.  Yes, the sex put me a little off, but the deeper aspects of it (no pun intended) got into the transformation between human and wolf.  It was painful for the character but in the end, he got what he wanted and he made the difference between himself and the villagers a tangible thing.  He put a physical shape to what he'd always been ostracized for.

The story may not have given a lot of twists and turns, but it's a good representation of what lengths some people go to in order to give name, form and a certain desire to their sometimes shameful differences.

[DKT]

And did anyone have thoughts that, since this IS a red riding hood kidlet story and the blacksmith "killed" the wolf who took her innocence, that the MC could be actually the blacksmith's SON. Especially if he had wolfy blood in him already.

Wait, are you talking about what happened in this story, or what happened prior to this story? I was under the impression that the woodcutter was the one who killed the Wolf in the fairy tale.

I enjoyed this story well enough. I'm surprised by a couple of spikes in the thread: 1) that is was horror (heh, try running this over at PP and the thread there would say, nice, but it's a Podcastle story) and 2) that the writing was poor.  I thought N.K. Jemison prose was fantastic.  She's had some excellent EP stories, and I'm looking forward to checking out her book. 

That said, although I thought the story was written well enough the way it ended with him going into the villiage to eat human flesh left...a bad taste in my mouth.  (I don't know. I thought they'd taste like chicken.)  It just broke a lot of my sympathy for the character.

Fantastic reading again by Rajan Khanna, though.  And all in all, I'm glad I listened to this one.  I hope we hear more from both N.K. Jemison and Khanna.

[Talia]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what I made of the story, but I would definitely say the writing was solid. The complaints of people saying its poorly written I suspect are largely spurred by people being uncomfortable with it and mistaking the reason why they're unhappy as the writing style rather than the rather unsavory subject matter.

[Loz]

By the cusp of manhood — that age when worthier lads began to consider a trade and marriage — Anrin had become a youth of fortitude and peculiar innocence.

So let's stop tossing the word 'paedophilia' around please? Thanks.

I really enjoyed this story, though for a while I thought the wolf was Anrin's father (which would have made it incestuous gay furry action) until I remembered that the wolf got killed at the end of the story. I'm curious as to whether this would be considered to be following on from what might be considered the 'generic' Little Red Riding Hood story (with the Big Bad Wolf's rape of Red not directly mentioned) or whether the author would think it was something more along the lines of Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie's Lost Girls, with the story being a cover-story created to deal with an incident of werewolf/human sex?

[MiraCheskis]

Anyway, kudos to the author for stepping outside and having some gay leads.  I love my podcast community and the fantasy stories I've found out there and this is the first one (that I've found) to feature a gay themed story.

Seconded!  Except I also follow Metamor City, which has all sorts of interesting stuff.

I'm itching for a fantasy or science fiction story where the protagonist just happens to be gay, where it's not the central theme of the story.  I'm itching for a movie with that too, but that'll take a while.

[Rachel Swirsky]

Mira -- check out Matt Ruff's Set This House in Order. It's not quite what you're saying, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[jamesperez14]

I have to say that my comments come somtime after the story was released on Podcastle, and like many others are not good, but are not meant to attack or berate only a criticism.  Kudos do belong to the author for putting her work out there, for her willingness to work at something and give it up to the public for enjoyment or critique. Obviously she worked hard on the story and deserves the credit; I do not or will not take that away.  But having said all of that, here are my comments directed to the subject and depiction of the story.

While the story was a bit obtuse it did have a measured flow.  The characterization of a late teen boy in the era depicted was not clearly defined even if a reference was made of occupation; this is due to his naivety and his all to child like curiosity of what changes he himself was to experience in life.  It was all too much, rather than the homoerotic nature of the piece being subtle and then building it was like a bad skit with nothing but stereotypes.  I don’t think it would have mattered if the main character was a boy or girl; the blacksmith would have still been portrayed as a black chaps wearing village person or the lecherous old man offering a candy bar in the park. 

I will stop there and say the author needs to keep working hard and know that some will like the stories and some wont’, it really doesn’t matter what the group as a whole thinks, it's whether or not it reaches the audience that he or she is trying to reach.  Keep up the hard work!

[Zathras]

DID NOT LIKE. 

I don't care what the justifications were, this stank of child porn.  Casually throw in his age somewhere to clear it up.  What age did boys "start to think about their trades"?  At what age did they become apprentices?

I will go back and finish reading all the comments now.  I stopped after the author's first post.

[Zathras]

Read all the comments.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I am damn well gonna speak mine.

I will have to expand my vocabulary.  I figured slash would mean gore, as in the slasher flicks I would watch as a teenager.

I stand by my statement that this stinks of chld porn.  Whether it is or not, I'm sure that pedophiles will love it.

[Heradel]

Read all the comments.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I am damn well gonna speak mine.

I will have to expand my vocabulary.  I figured slash would mean gore, as in the slasher flicks I would watch as a teenager.

I stand by my statement that this stinks of chld porn.  Whether it is or not, I'm sure that pedophiles will love it.

The standard of "pedophiles will love it" is kinda broad. A pedophile could get turned on by a painting of Madonna and child, but does that meant the painter shouldn't have picked up their brush?

[Zathras]

Read all the comments.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I am damn well gonna speak mine.

I will have to expand my vocabulary.  I figured slash would mean gore, as in the slasher flicks I would watch as a teenager.

I stand by my statement that this stinks of chld porn.  Whether it is or not, I'm sure that pedophiles will love it.

The standard of "pedophiles will love it" is kinda broad. A pedophile could get turned on by a painting of Madonna and child, but does that meant the painter shouldn't have picked up their brush?

Point.  It was an unfair comment. 

[stePH]

I'm itching for a fantasy or science fiction story where the protagonist just happens to be gay, where it's not the central theme of the story.  I'm itching for a movie with that too, but that'll take a while.

In TV there's Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who.  Though he's not really homo- so much as he is omni- or pan-.

As for written, I don't have any off the top of my head.

[jqstave]

This wasn't for me.  I thought it was well written, and I listened to the whole thing because I always do, but I had a grimace on my face for almost the entire story.

[Heradel]

I'm itching for a fantasy or science fiction story where the protagonist just happens to be gay, where it's not the central theme of the story.  I'm itching for a movie with that too, but that'll take a while.

In TV there's Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who.  Though he's not really homo- so much as he is omni- or pan-.

As for written, I don't have any off the top of my head.

Captain Jack is in a homosexual relationship for much of Torchwood, but he flirts.

[d.r. white]

Read this story while out walking on a chilly fall evening.  It was as wholesome, pleasing, and well-made as the wool gloves I had on.  Thank you podcastle and N. K. Jemisin.   

[MacArthurBug]

I heart Cap'n Jack. But I was grumpulous about the ending of Torchwood.

[Heradel]

I heart Cap'n Jack. But I was grumpulous about the ending of Torchwood.

Er, it's not ended yet. Officially. Davies says a fourth series is waiting on the BBC's ok.

Unless you mean something in the ending of Children of Earth that would mean mentioning spoilers.

[Unblinking]

Hmmm... I try to find something nice to say about every story before I get to the stuff I didn't like.  I thought the writing itself was good, no problems there.

When listening to the warning, I'd thought "slash" referred to "slasher".  I hadn't been aware of that subgenre...

I knew I had a few "DISLIKE!" story elements in fiction that will, at worst, make me put the story down immediately, scrub my eyes (or in this case my ears) with steel wool to scrub away the image, and be wary of reading more from that author in the future.  Or at best, just hate the story. 

The story elements I knew of so far:
1.  Genital mutilation
2.  pedophilia
3.  cannibalism, especially when described in detail.

There's now one more:
4.  Sex with animals.

Judging by the comments, the wolf turned out to be a werewolf, but at the point where I turned the story off, the boy was being screwed by a talking wolf.  The fact that it talked didn't mean it was not a wolf.

Yes, it was gay sex, which isn't my favorite thing to read or listen about.  Some of the comments on the blog screamed "homophobia" at anyone who said this (thankfully not here), but I think that's an exaggeration.  Not wanting to watch gay porn is not the same thing as homophobia.  And, at the point when the sex started, the characters were so underdeveloped that it was pretty much a porn plot.  Maybe it got more developed later on...

I agree with those who said it wasn't pedophilia, the boy was clearly of consenting age.  He didn't exactly consent, though, since he didn't know what was going on.  Which was another detail that seemed like it came straight from a porn plot.

But in any case, the same-sex sex was not the reason I turned it off.  If it had been a she-wolf having sex with a man or a he-wolf having sex with a woman does not change the fact that I find human-on-animal sex disgusting, and not in an entertaining way.  I tried to grit my teeth and just wait for it to be over (Is anyone going to chime in with "That's what she/he said"?), but that scene just went on and on until I finally had to tap out, like a bestiality endurance challenge that I am clearly not prepared for (or even interested in winning for that matter).

I'm glad that this didn't happen to be the first episode of Podcastle that I ever listened to, as I may have left and never come back, thinking this a clear indication that the editor's idea of entertaining is far outside of what I care to endure.

[chemistryguy]

Nicely strung together.  I saw the furry sex scene coming a mile away, but the implications came as a surprise.  The story was about a loss of virginity only on the surface.

Was he pushed into his decision?  If he was, I can't blame the wolf.  Maybe if the villagers weren't such dicks, his choice might have been different. 

Or maybe he never really had a choice at all?