Author Topic: when the end comes ! (Read 202907 times)

Bdoomed · **Reply #75 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:54:14 AM

i just watched Shaun of the Dead for the first time... boy i cant wait for zombies now!

SFEley · **Reply #76 on:** April 10, 2007, 01:13:18 AM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on April 09, 2007, 02:05:46 PM

Ok, so, hideouts?

Wasn't it zombies who can't climb stairs?

(No, wait, it was snakes. No, wait, it was Daleks. No, wait...)

Thaurismunths · **Reply #77 on:** April 10, 2007, 01:36:21 AM

I think you were thinking of dogs. Dog's can look up.

I dunno if zombies can handle steps. Perhaps if given enough time?
However I've never seen a zombie make it up a ladder.
Maybe tree houses are the answer to surviving a zombie invasion?

wakela · **Reply #78 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:03:32 AM

Quote

Wasn't it zombies who can't climb stairs?

(No, wait, it was snakes. No, wait, it was Daleks. No, wait...)

I don't think I've seen a Cylon climb stairs, but based on all the other stuff they can do, that seems like an odd oversight.

Quote

However I've never seen a zombie make it up a ladder.
Maybe tree houses are the answer to surviving a zombie invasion?

I think we saw zombies in an apartment building at the beginning of Dawn of the Dead (original), so I they can probably handle stairs. A weakness in the tree house plan is that you might kill enough zombies at the base of your ladder to eventually make a heap of zombies big enough for more zombies to ~~walk~~ shamble up.

Boats, man, boats.

SFEley · **Reply #79 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:34:14 AM

Quote from: wakela on April 10, 2007, 03:03:32 AM

I don't think I've seen a Cylon climb stairs, but based on all the other stuff they can do, that seems like an odd oversight.

The humans in Battlestar Galactica never invented stairs. The Cylons invented them, in their detention center on New Caprica, and proved that human children cannot climb them.

(...Sorry, that was just a really lame moment in early Season 3.)

Startrekwiki · **Reply #80 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:34:44 AM

Maybe. But there are problems with boats:

The main problem is actually BEFORE getting on the boats: they need to be built, or obtained. It's possible to swim to one off a dock, but then there is the problem that you can't stay there forever. Gas runs out, leaks spring. It's nature.
Then, you need food! I mean, when there's a horde of zombies attacking you, you're not going to be carrying the ice cooler. A suggestion is to build underwater facilities to grow food, like greenhouses. That can't really be done, because you need the materials from land. Double that for building replacement boats.

Those aren't all the problems, and I'm sure you can counter everything I've written above. Really, I think that you have more of a chance of living off replacement parts, and stuff from the few other boats that made it like Battlestar Gallactica, than against the zombies, but the chances are slim as it is.

Am I suggesting we as humanity need a contingency plan for zombies overrunning the world? (Oh. Wait, if everyone knew the plan, the zombies would too. Scratch that.)

Anyway, I don't think we know enough about zombies just yet. Do we?

Thaurismunths · **Reply #81 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:07:58 AM

Quote from: wakela on April 10, 2007, 03:03:32 AM

Quote
However I've never seen a zombie make it up a ladder.
Maybe tree houses are the answer to surviving a zombie invasion?
I think we saw zombies in an apartment building at the beginning of Dawn of the Dead (original), so I they can probably handle stairs. A weakness in the tree house plan is that you might kill enough zombies at the base of your ladder to eventually make a heap of zombies big enough for more zombies to ~~walk~~ shamble up.
Boats, man, boats.

No, no. That's what the FLAME THROWER is for! Oh, wait....

Boats aren't a bad idea, but dead bodies float. Fortunately, I don't think zombies have the coordination to swim. So, as long as you can avoid the massive flotillas of flailing zombie bodies that have drifted together like the flotsam they are, you should be fine.

I agree with StarTrek that a boat isn't a permanent solution, you'll need to land eventually, but if you can clear an island for yourself and maintain your sail boat (no gas needed), you could be in good shape.

Thaurismunths · **Reply #82 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:10:58 AM

Quote from: Startrekwiki on April 10, 2007, 03:34:44 AM

Anyway, I don't think we know enough about zombies just yet. Do we?

That's a good question. What do we know about zombies?

-They smell bad
-You have to destroy the brain
-They like brains and human flesh
-Shotguns are to Zombies what Pirates are to Ninjas: Mortal Enemies
-?

SFEley · **Reply #83 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:59:39 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on April 10, 2007, 11:07:58 AM

Boats aren't a bad idea, but dead bodies float. Fortunately, I don't think zombies have the coordination to swim. So, as long as you can avoid the massive flotillas of flailing zombie bodies that have drifted together like the flotsam they are, you should be fine.

Two scary words derive from this:

Zombie sharks.

ClintMemo · **Reply #84 on:** April 10, 2007, 04:05:36 PM

Quote from: SFEley on April 10, 2007, 03:59:39 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on April 10, 2007, 11:07:58 AM
Boats aren't a bad idea, but dead bodies float. Fortunately, I don't think zombies have the coordination to swim. So, as long as you can avoid the massive flotillas of flailing zombie bodies that have drifted together like the flotsam they are, you should be fine.

Two scary words derive from this:

Zombie sharks.

Zombie Jaws not withstanding, I'm not sure that zombie sharks would be able to get you as long as you stayed in the boat.
Zombie Giant Squid might have a better chance. And think of how hideous his giant, undead, bloodshot eye would be. ewww......

Heradel · **Reply #85 on:** April 10, 2007, 06:24:33 PM

Obviously the best bet is to hijack a Coast Guard Cutter. Zombie sharks will only break their teeth against the metal hull, it's small enough for a rag-tag team of survivors to crew but big enough to have a helipad (for scouting and rescuing survivors), good radio equipment, additional bunkspace for what survivors you do find, and most importantly it's armed. The Cutter finds survivors, takes them to some Caribbean or Pacific island, sets up a base camp with farms, and then conducts raids into zombie territory to steal supplies and search for more survivors. It then takes those survivors back to the secret human island lair, rinse, and repeat.

The tricky part will be fuel, but that's what off-shore drilling platforms are for. Assuming they're not zombified you can always go there for fuel, and there are a couple of navy bases on small islands off the mainland, so you can raid/meet up with allied forces there. Eventually as the group gets bigger you can look into finding and appropriating other boats, perhaps even start looking into contacting any nuclear submarines that were underwater at the time of zombification.

Addenda:
Assuming there's still the north polar ice cap at time of zombification, how cool would it be to steal an ice breaker, run it along the coast very slowly to attract zombies and then just keep going north. You get to the ice sheet, start going into it, have the zombies follow you out on the ice until they finally freeze solid or get stuck on the ice.

Thinking of it, the safest place (once you figure out the whole food/energy situation during the 6 months of night) would be the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. Any zombies would freeze well before they got there.

lowky · **Reply #86 on:** April 10, 2007, 07:44:06 PM

Quote from: Thaurismunths on April 10, 2007, 11:10:58 AM

Quote from: Startrekwiki on April 10, 2007, 03:34:44 AM
Anyway, I don't think we know enough about zombies just yet. Do we?

That's a good question. What do we know about zombies?

-They smell bad
-You have to destroy the brain
-They like brains and human flesh
-Shotguns are to Zombies what Pirates are to Ninjas: Mortal Enemies
-?

Which begs the question if zombies eat brains, how do more zombies show up?

FNH · **Reply #87 on:** April 10, 2007, 07:45:19 PM

Quote from: Heradel on April 10, 2007, 06:24:33 PM

The tricky part will be fuel, but that's what off-shore drilling platforms are for.

Sorry dude, the Z's are going to get you, off shore platforms dont refine the oil. Time for "Plan 2".

ClintMemo · **Reply #88 on:** April 10, 2007, 07:50:59 PM

learn to sail.
or get a solar powered boat.

Heradel · **Reply #89 on:** April 10, 2007, 08:03:35 PM

Quote from: FNH on April 10, 2007, 07:45:19 PM

Quote from: Heradel on April 10, 2007, 06:24:33 PM
The tricky part will be fuel, but that's what off-shore drilling platforms are for.
Sorry dude, the Z's are going to get you, off shore platforms dont refine the oil. Time for "Plan 2".

Hm. I guess we'd need to hijack an oil tanker, and find a suitably remote oil refinery. Though to be fair, most boats are fairly fuel-efficient so it wouldn't be an immediate worry.

Looking up diesel refining, it seems like it wouldn't be that hard to set up a low-tech (though dangerous and without a high output) refining operation at the main base, so long as you have a supply of crude. Hm.

My problem with sail-boats is the lack of A. space B. speed and C. guns. While useful perhaps for patrols/fishing for non-zombie fish, they wouldn't make much sense for long-range rescue/raid operations.

Addenda:

Looking around for possible locations for an island base, Midway or Wake island seems like the best spot in the Pacific. Both already have air-fields, probably have a bunch of navy scrap from the old days, and are pretty remote. Though the remoteness works against easy visiting by aforementioned rag-tag fleet.

Unfortunately there's no easy choice for an Atlantic/Carribean location, though perhaps Ascension island (a US/UK naval base)? I'd hesitate with a Caribbean island as they're so close together (thus facilitating the swimming/walking underwater zombies) or Bermuda which has a substantial population/tourism industry which would (assuming incubation period for zombiehood) be likely to be zombiefied.

Startrekwiki · **Reply #90 on:** April 11, 2007, 04:10:05 AM

Quote from: Heradel on April 10, 2007, 08:03:35 PM

[...] C. guns. While useful perhaps for patrols/fishing for non-zombie fish, they wouldn't make much sense for long-range rescue/raid operations.

Addenda:

Looking around for possible locations for an island base, Midway or Wake island seems like the best spot in the Pacific. Both already have air-fields, probably have a bunch of navy scrap from the old days, and are pretty remote. Though the remoteness works against easy visiting by aforementioned rag-tag fleet.

Unfortunately there's no easy choice for an Atlantic/Carribean location, though perhaps Ascension island (a US/UK naval base)? I'd hesitate with a Caribbean island as they're so close together (thus facilitating the swimming/walking underwater zombies) or Bermuda which has a substantial population/tourism industry which would (assuming incubation period for zombiehood) be likely to be zombiefied.

So, zombies are dead, rotten people, right?
Go to the Mojave desert! I mean, they'll dry up, right?

Why not?

Then again, we might end up drying out, too.

Heradel · **Reply #91 on:** April 11, 2007, 05:07:01 AM

Quote from: Startrekwiki on April 11, 2007, 04:10:05 AM

So, zombies are dead, rotten people, right?
Go to the Mojave desert! I mean, they'll dry up, right?

Why not?

Then again, we might end up drying out, too.

Zombie Camels.

wakela · **Reply #92 on:** April 11, 2007, 06:56:36 AM

I'm glad Heradel is our team, because he is definitely thinking big. Though I'm going to wait over here while he experiments with refining diesel if you don't mind.

My reason for going with boats was one of individual survival rather than rebooting society, but obviously we need to consider both. I don't have a problem with setting up the zombie free island closer to shore. Zombies can't swim, and once they get waterlogged enough to sink and walk on the bottom, they would be close to falling apart. Also, non-zombie sharks and other fish would make quick work of them. If we had consistent currents would could erect some kind of zombie catcher in the water to keep them from drifting up onto the beach. This would have the benefit of attracting predatory fish to help protect and feed us.

I live by the coast, so I can probably get my ass on a boat in pretty short order. As a bonus, marinas are often gated, so once I get in, I can take some time to gather supplies and chose a good boat. But what about the people in the heartland? Boats are nice because you can be safe and mobile at the same time, but you can't really do this on land.

Zombie animals is something I hadn't considered. Zombie humans have lost interest in traditional human cuisine, and only have a taste for other, non-zombie, live humans. Would zombie sharks, or zharks, not hunger only for non-zombie sharks? I leave this question to the academics. I'm now concerned about zombie plants (this may be the worst idea for a horror movie anyone has come up with). What if we wait a whole growing season and end up with greenish gray, whithered stalks of zheat?

Heradel · **Reply #93 on:** April 11, 2007, 07:57:34 AM

Quote from: wakela on April 11, 2007, 06:56:36 AM

I'm glad Heradel is our team, because he is definitely thinking big. Though I'm going to wait over here while he experiments with refining diesel if you don't mind.

Aw, thanks. Should this happen, I'll volunteer to be the mad professor/mechanic archetype.

Quote

I live by the coast, so I can probably get my ass on a boat in pretty short order. As a bonus, marinas are often gated, so once I get in, I can take some time to gather supplies and chose a good boat. But what about the people in the heartland? Boats are nice because you can be safe and mobile at the same time, but you can't really do this on land.

I live on an island, so I know where the boats are as well (granted, I'll be fighting a good half-million plus others to get a spot on one, but c'est la vie), but I think there's less of a problem with the Midwest(for the US among us)/rural areas. First off, they tend to have more time to react due to the spare populations (assuming a lack of zombie cheetahs), and they do tend to be more likely to have/have used guns. I would say that their best bet is to get to an airfield as soon as possible, toss out everything not needed for flight and food (if you're on a farm, be sure to grab any seeds you can), fuel it, pick a (hopefully remote island/airfield bound) direction and start radioing to try to contact other survivor groups.

Theoretically, assuming an aircraft with a large enough range or some temporary airfield/refueling midpoints, you'd want to end up heading towards someplace like Wake, Midway or Ascension because those have airfields. If you can't get there, try for an island that's a fair distance from land or another island and that has sandy beaches (all the better to crash-land on). Make sure you pad your (hopefully shortwave) radio though, you'll need it to call someone with a boat.

I think we can all agree that Running Away is the biggest concern when faced with zombie hoards wherever you are, be it Broadway or the Balkans. When in a position of safety, if only temporarily, try to contact other survivors and agree on a meeting place. Once you're someplace zombie-free, have some ability to defend yourself/wherever you set up camp, then you set up camp and start planting food, but only if you have enough people to really make it worthwhile (over 30-50). Sailboats get more important at this point because of their utility for trade (assuming all the fuel that's left goes to any warships/cars/planes/heli's that are left. Oddly enough, this is the other scenario where you really need investments in energy efficiency because you have so little generating capacity.

Michael · **Reply #94 on:** April 11, 2007, 09:40:19 AM

The genre usually suggests getting to a defensible place (islands, commonly) and expanding out from there to eventually reclaim the planet from the zombie hordes. But part II of an expansion plan is attracting the remaining humans to join your band of survivors--particularly the females needed to form the breeding population to once again repopulate the earth--said component sadly lacking on most nuclear submarines.

So I would argue against going as far afield as Wake or Ascension island as it is both hard to attract visitors and expand out from, and you run the risk of becoming stranded there ala Easter Island.

A nuclear aircraft carrier could anchor half a mile or so offshore, and would provide abundant electricity for 70 years or more--convenient for raids to the mainland, attracting human survivors via radio or flashing lights. If you keep it's zinc anodes intact, you don't have to worry about it's hull rusting through. Said hull would easily be zombie shark proof, and the hull would also be unscalable by the floating or swimming zombies as the lowest hatches are still a dozen feet or more above see level. Aircraft carriers have a lot of other fuels on board, but with electricity all other things are possible--such as operating a refinery.

Heradel · **Reply #95 on:** April 11, 2007, 06:27:41 PM

I've shied away from aircraft carriers because well, they're nuclear. And they've got a large population that has some daily contact with the outside world via it's aircraft population. So I figure that the odds of them being zombiefied/partially zombiefied are quite a lot better than that of a nuclear submarine, which should retain it's entire complement. And personally when facing a zombie menace, I'd rather not have to worry about accidentally starting a nuclear meltdown because the nuclear technicians all started getting a hankering for brains. But if you did get one, and you got one with it's full crew complement (which would have some small percentage of women[who are less expendable than the men in terms of procreation]), well, good. There are 10 nuclear carriers currently up and running (all USN), which would increase the chances of at least one of them making it, though the 5,700 sailors/pilots would pretty immediately start having food problems (not to mention the other ships in the carrier fleet).

My argument for Wake or Ascension is that they're tropical, have long growing seasons, and are far enough away from mainland that anyone there doesn't have to worry about zombies. They're not supposed to be the only last bastion of humanity, just the most easily secured, and the plan would always be to slowly get closer to shore. Sailboats could still reach them if all else fails (or I start missing my eyebrows from too many diesel refining tests).

slic · **Reply #96 on:** April 12, 2007, 03:56:33 AM

Once you are secure, you'll need to find cure. You are all assuming the zombification is a one time event - what if it's like Resident Evil and it's a communicable disease?

This thread has also got me thinking about the new sociatal traditions that would evolve from this new world. Cremation, daily checks for zombie sign, etc.

Startrekwiki · **Reply #97 on:** April 12, 2007, 03:58:26 AM

Quote from: slic on April 12, 2007, 03:56:33 AM

Once you are secure, you'll need to find cure. You are all assuming the zombification is a one time event - what if it's like Resident Evil and it's a communicable disease?

This thread has also got me thinking about the new sociatal traditions that would evolve from this new world. Cremation, daily checks for zombie sign, etc.

There is also what would come from our societies people. In my opinion, people would be very paranoid after something like this.

SFEley · **Reply #98 on:** April 12, 2007, 04:41:58 AM

Quote from: wakela on April 11, 2007, 06:56:36 AM

I'm glad Heradel is our team, because he is definitely thinking big. Though I'm going to wait over here while he experiments with refining diesel if you don't mind.

The real problem comes when Heradel becomes a zombie and presents them with the same plans as their strategist.

Michael · **Reply #99 on:** April 12, 2007, 09:38:06 AM

Quote

The real problem comes when Heradel becomes a zombie and presents them with the same plans as their strategist.

Cool. How very Richard Matheson of you! He wrote a book, "I am Legend" that has been made into two films so far. Did you ever see the original film that was remade into Charleton Heston's "The Omega Man"? It was called "the Last Man On Earth" (1964) and starred Vincent Price. He was battling vampires. The twist was that by the end of the movie it was clear Price was actually the monster--he was killing the innocent vampires who were only trying to rebuild a society after the terrible calamity that had befallen them. They tried him and ordered him executed for murder. It was a neat twist that the remake totally lost.