dollhouse DollHouse DOLLHOUSE

[Russell Nash]

The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

[Agies]

The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005

Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

[Russell Nash]

The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005

Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

5 different interviews will give you five different versions of that.  One thing they all have in common is, The network didn't like the original pilot and suggested, encouraged, forced a new pilot.

[Agies]

5 different interviews will give you five different versions of that.  One thing they all have in common is, The network didn't like the original pilot and suggested, encouraged, forced a new pilot.

The truth is probably, as always, somewhere inbetween. Regardless, I'm far happier with a "new" pilot rather than airing episodes out of order like Firefly.

That being said I'm somewhat supprised by some of the backlash against the show. There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us. I'm not saying that people should keep watching a "bad" show, but two episodes (or three in the case of critics) does not a series make.

[Russell Nash]

The thing with the network "talking to him" about the episode foreshadows trouble.  I think it shows that they really don't have any faith in the show at all.  He wants to explore the darker sides of humanity, and FOX wants an action show (according to his interview on NPR from the weekend before the premiere).

[izzardfan]

There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you don't watch it, how will you know if it gets better or not?   

[Agies]

There are some people (like Penny Arcade) who seem to think that it's bad and we shouldn't watch it until it gets better, but that's exactly the same tack people took with Firefly and look where it got us.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you don't watch it, how will you know if it gets better or not?  

That was part of my point 

I can now see why reviewers have paned the show based on the first three episodes. The third episode was not so good, not awful, but about on par with some of those early episodes of Buffy and Angel.

[cuddlebug]

I was so looking forward to this one and can't believe how disappointing it is. Shame on you Joss! What happened to the quirky characterisation we love so much. must be corporate meddling, if you ask me, I am not giving up on Mr Whedon yet. But I do hope it picks up (have only seen the first 3 episodes, and as other commenters mentioned we should show some patience), but if not the show is doomed. If they cancelled Pushing Daisies, which was really something special, this one, which is nothing out of the ordinary, if you ask me, doesn't stand a chance.

[DKT]

The second episode definitely shows a deeper concept than the first.  The ratings were already down over the week before, so I think Fox getting in the way of the pilot may have hurt the shows chances of survival. 

Joss changed the pilot episode, not Fox. The new pilot may have been weaker, but I think it probably made the latest episode stronger. They somewhat avoided the trap of trying to do too much in the first episode.

Fox told him to change it and how they wanted it changed.  If it was up to him, he wouldn't have changed it.

From http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005

Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

Thanks for pointing this out. I knew I had read it somewhere, but couldn't remember where.

[Russell Nash]

Might as well put this here:

Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

[Heradel]

Might as well put this here:

Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?

[DKT]

Might as well put this here:

Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?

What I was thinking...

[Russell Nash]

Might as well put this here:

Lynda Carter has officially passed the Wonder Woman baton to actress Eliza Dushku, insisting she'd make a great comic book heroine.

Carter, who played the iconic character on TV in the 1970s, insists the world needs a new Wonder Woman - and if reports suggesting director Joss Whedon is set to launch a new franchise with Dushku are correct, the original star would be thrilled.

She tells WENN, "I've always liked Joss, and Eliza would make a great Wonder Woman."

Carter has even offered her services to help groom the next Wonder Woman.

Didn't Joss get fired from the Wonder Woman movie gig?

What I was thinking...

I don't really keep track of these things.  I find it to be a total waste of brain capacity.  This story was linked off of the front page of IMDB today.  After you complained I went back and hit the permalink.  At the bottom of that page was a link to this:

But why did Whedon quit? He explains to The Telegraph: "I was told they were very anxious to make it. I wrote a script. I rewrote the story. And by the time I'd written the second script, they asked me...not to. They didn't tell me to leave, but they showed me the door and how pretty it was. Would I like to touch the knob and maybe make it swing? I was dealing with them through [producer] Joel Silver who couldn't tell me what they wanted or anything else. I was completely in the dark. So I didn't know what it was that I wasn't giving them. I've moved on."

Go figure. 

IMDB has him leaving in February of 2007.  Either Carter is way behind or way out in front.

[DKT]

I don't really keep track of these things.  I find it to be a total waste of brain capacity. 

Your poor brain! 

[Planish]

Three episodes. I'm starting to lose hope for Dollhouse. It's kinda' hard to develop chemistry (a la Firefly, BTVS) when half the cast can't remember who their fellow cast members are from week to week. Maybe Echo and Sierra will start retaining some memories and become their own characters. We'll see.

Not much in the way of comic relief either.

[Russell Nash]

Three episodes. I'm starting to lose hope for Dollhouse. It's kinda' hard to develop chemistry (a la Firefly, BTVS) when half the cast can't remember who their fellow cast members are from week to week. Maybe Echo and Sierra will start retaining some memories and become their own characters. We'll see.

Not much in the way of comic relief either.

It's obvious that Echo and sierra are remembering more and that that's the point of the show.  In typical Whedon fashion he's just taking time getting there. 

I'm kind of happy there isn't too much humor in this.  I'd like it to get really dark.  The problem with BTVS and Angel was that since they always had so much humor, whenever you tried to get serious it just seemed lame.

[deflective]

so, four episodes and the last two have been pretty bad. it isn't worth sitting through an hour of half-hearted plotting & wooden tv acting for one or two Whedonesque turns of phrase. it took Buffy well over a season to find its stride, unless the next episode of dollhouse grabs me i'll wait and check out the next season if it survives.

the last word i heard from Whedon: he was finishing all prior commitments then returning to the web after the success of Dr Horrible. i hope it's true. one of the best things he could do right now is break ground so filmakers have a financial option away from the big studios.

[Talia]

I've actually enjoyed all the episodes so far. I thought this past one was particularly good.

[deflective]

episodes 5 & 6 were written by Buffy veterans Tim Minear & Joss Whedon and there's a noticeable change.

next week we go back to the new writers so my enthusiasm is cautious.

[Planish]

I missed ep. 5 "True Believer", but ep. 6 "Man On The Street" seems to be a turning point in the story arcs. Looks more promising now. If they stick with overly-long story arcs though, with no stand-alone MOTW episodes, then it could go the way of "ST: Enterprise". Even I gave up on that because I missed a few and totally got lost in the plot, so I stopped watching it regularly.

[stePH]

I missed ep. 5 "True Believer", but ep. 6 "Man On The Street" seems to be a turning point in the story arcs. Looks more promising now. If they stick with overly-long story arcs though, with no stand-alone MOTW episodes, then it could go the way of "ST: Enterprise". Even I gave up on that because I missed a few and totally got lost in the plot, so I stopped watching it regularly.

Even without a DVR, there's still the option to watch online any that you missed, even if it's a few weeks old.

[Russell Nash]

In 5 and 6 I could hear more of the Whedon dialogue style.

[DKT]

I watched part of episode 3 (Stage Fright) this afternoon because the premiere "was no longer available" on hulu (or Fox). Man, that was awful.

[sirana]

Yeah, Stage Fright was probably the worst episode. Try episode 6 "Man on the Street". If you don't like that one, the series is probably not for you.

[sirana]

On the other hand, you probably can skip it. With the abysmal ratings this Friday (3.9 million and a 1.3 share) I don't see how Dollhouse would not get cancelled.
And to be honest, I am not that terribly sorry about it.
There were just too few really good episodes. "Man on the Street" (Ep 6) was great, but half of the others were bad and the other half were just ok.
The writing in most episodes just wasn't up to Whedons other shows.
I had really thought that Episode 6 was the turning point where everything would get better, but this week's episode wasn't that good either.

I'll be watching till the end and the preview for next week looks really good, but as I said, I would be very surprised if Dollhouse was renewed.