clarion west

[Listener]

How exactly does Clarion West work? I checked Wikipedia and just wanted to hear from people in the community who might know someone/have actually attended. Do you go for six weeks and live in Seattle and do this? Is it weekends-only? It seems like it'd be something great to do, but not if I have to take a six-week LOA from work to do it, because I don't think I could afford CW and that.

[DKT]

How exactly does Clarion West work? I checked Wikipedia and just wanted to hear from people in the community who might know someone/have actually attended. Do you go for six weeks and live in Seattle and do this? Is it weekends-only? It seems like it'd be something great to do, but not if I have to take a six-week LOA from work to do it, because I don't think I could afford CW and that.

I haven't been to CW, but my understanding of it is that yes, you do go for six full weeks and basically, you put your life on hold for six weeks and focus on writing. Which sounds great and all, but with a family it's not something I could ever really even consider.

Listener, if you're interested, you may want to give Viable Paradise a try. It's a week long course with instructors like Cory Doctorow, John Scalzi, Elizabeth Bear, Steve Gould. It's much more cost-effective and do-able timewise (at least it was for me) than Clarion/CW.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Clarion/CW is a full six weeks, live-in.  It's a fabulous opportunity, but not for everyone.  If you have children, you have to have a very understanding spouse or support network to pull it off.

I know that Ben Rosenbaum actually took his baby (and wife) with him to Clarion West.  He's written about it on his blog.  I had my baby with me at Clarion as well, but as she was still in utero at the time, it was much, much easier to handle.

Hmm

[Listener]

Clarion/CW is a full six weeks, live-in.  It's a fabulous opportunity, but not for everyone.  If you have children, you have to have a very understanding spouse or support network to pull it off.

My wife will never approve that, then... but I think I could get her to agree to Viable Paradise, especially if it coincides with Sukkot, so she and the kid can go to my brother-in-law's in Sharon and I can go to VP in Martha's Vineyard.

Given that it's live-in... if you're a Seattle resident or live nearby, are you allowed to keep your job? Or are the workshops during the day, too?

[Rachel Swirsky]

You might find a fuller explanation of the workshop at the workshop's site itself: http://www.clarionwest.org.

The daily workshops are from 9am to 12pm, and students have to critique 17 stories a week, as well as generate one of their own. It would be basically impossible to work.

Hilary, I didn't know Ben took his wife and child. How strange and interesting. We had a kid at our CW, too; like yours, she was safely in utero.

[hautdesert]

If you have children, you have to have a very understanding spouse or support network to pull it off.

Very definitely.  If you have kids, your spouse/partner needs to be completely on board and supportive.  (It also helps to have local grandparents.)  I am very lucky in that department.

I think one of our classmates (Rachel and I were in the same class) did work nights sometimes.  But it would be insanely hard to pull off.

If you can't, no big deal, VP, and I think Oddysey? are only one week, and have great instructors and some great folks have been through those programs.  And lots of amazing writers have never done any of the workshops. Don't feel like you can't progress without them.

But it's worth it, if you can do it.   I found CW to be very nearly life-changing.  At least as far as my attitude towards my writing.  And I think it has definitely made a difference in what I'm turning out--though you'd have to ask my classmates about that for an objective view.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Given that it's live-in... if you're a Seattle resident or live nearby, are you allowed to keep your job? Or are the workshops during the day, too?

Rachel's already answered this, so I am going to just add a bit to her answer.  A good half of the people in my Clarion Class were students or other people whose jobs were seasonal and could handle a summer break.  With me, I had hoarded vacation hours and then applied for a leave of Absence from the library, funded entirely from vacation hours.  I basically used up three years of vacation in one go...

(The reason I had hoarded vacation hours was for a future maternity leave.  But after my second miscarriage, I had wanted to take a break from trying for a baby, so I applied to go to Clarion.  Right after I got accepted to the workshop... Guess what?  I found out I was pregnant.  Life is really weird sometimes.)

Some people got permission from their jobs for a Leave of Absence for "education reasons".  Seriously.  Clarion is a WRITING course, and even though it had nothing to do with job-related writing, some folks managed to get an education leave of absence from their jobs to do the workshop.  Several people had been laid off that year, and decided that the powers that be had told them to go to Clarion.  Other people had had jobs they had hated, and quit the jobs right before going off the workshop.   And of course, there was at least one "kept" writer who had a very supportive spouse that allowed her to write full-time.

I would not have tried to balance a job and the workshop.  The workshop is enough of a pressure cooker without doing that to yourself.

Hmm

[Rachel Swirsky]

There's a pretty well-known website somewhere that's got a Clarion poll on it, where you say how much you had to give up to go -- your spouse, your job, getting into debt, etc -- and that earns you points to indicate how dedicated you are.

By which measure, I'm a dilettante.

HMM -- will Ann and I see you at Wiscon?

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

You're going to be at Wiscon?  Yes, I will be there!

Oh yay!  Will there be an Escape Artists party there?  I am so excited by this!

Hmm

[Rachel Swirsky]

Nope, unfortunately no party. But a smiling me and Ann, which is hopefully also cool. We should meet up for drinks or something; anyway, I'm sure we'll run into you.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Yay, I met you and Ann at Wiscon!  Thanks for letting me join you two for dinner.  This was so much fun.

Hmm

[Rachel Swirsky]

Yes! It was awesome!

[Unblinking]

Literary Boot Camp run by Orson Scott Card is also very well known and well thought-of, and is about a week.  It's application-only and run once a year, I think in August.  The applicaiton period for 2010 hasn't opened yet, but I think I might try to go.  There's no way my job would let me take 6 concurrent weeks off.