Author Topic: Did no one start a thread for Torchwood: Children of Earth? (Read 18307 times)

Heradel · **on:** August 03, 2009, 04:21:29 PM

I know the job's been scaling back my forum-spelunking, but how did you guys miss Children of Earth? Either I missed the thread or the British contingent needs to look sheepishly towards the floor upon reading this.

Spoilers ensue.

The series reminded me of a bit from George Carlin's wacky weatherman routine where he, clearly high, goes up to the weatherboard and says something along the lines of: "this evening, dark, getting darker" (Later research finds the actual quote to be quite a bit more boring and less apt, the bit is also actually referred to as the hippy-dippy weatherman).

Torchwood was always somewhat of an odd beast as the adult version of Dr. Who, and got stereotyped early as Dr. Who with weird, kinky, poly sex in. The series then spent a lot of time walking that impression back and forward, and this (in the US a miniseries, for the UK just a slightly shorter series) seems to be setting it up for a darker reboot, since the BBC confirmed series 4 is a go. But god, it'll be hard to walk back from the dark place this one went.

I usually think gut-wrenching is a bit of an overused phrase when it comes to fiction not clearly based on reality, as the horrors of fiction don't really stack up next to the horrors of reality. But this one actually induced physically a wrenching gut in me, so I think it's justified. From the many deaths of Captain Jack, to Ianto's death, to finding out what the kids were being used for and the actions of MI5/6... things started out in Torchwood campy breed of near-future SF and just went black. Gwen's into the video camera monologue about when things go bad without the Doctor just really drove the point home - humans, sans the hero, are really not creatures one wants to be around when put against the grindstone.

stePH · **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:40:34 PM

Quote from: Heradel on August 03, 2009, 04:21:29 PM

I know the job's been scaling back my forum-spelunking, but how did you guys miss Children of Earth?

I haven't seen it yet.

izzardfan · **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:12:01 AM

Spoilers here, too.

We recorded it on our DVR and I watched it with the rest of my family, but while they sat on the couch and watched it, I sat at my desk (behind the couch) and just "sort of" watched it, not paying nearly as much attention. This was intentional, after the first half hour of the first night, since I felt it (1) wasn't worthy of my full attention, unlike other episodes, and (2) it was too depressing to watch. As a commenter on some review of it said, with Tosh and Owen gone at the end of the regular series, and now Ianto, and Jack transported off to some ship headed waaaay out of town, I'm not really interested in "Gwenwood" even with the baby and all. I don't like Rhys's character, and I wasn't real fond of Gwen's in this. We didn't delete the episodes, so I may go back and try again later, but talk about a disappointment. And it was followed by yet another: Dr. Who, Planet of the Dead. BBC America ran over, so I'm missing the last 5 minutes apparently, but this was another one I couldn't give my full attention to. If this is the trend, then I'll have more TV-free nights when the two series return.

lowky · **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2009, 11:44:06 PM

Quote from: izzardfan on August 04, 2009, 09:12:01 AM

If this is the trend, then I'll have more TV-free nights when the two series return.

Do you really think Torchwood will return? There's no one left. I suppose they could bring Rhys, Gwen's former partner, and the too civil servants into Torchwood, but with it only being a 5 shot season etc., My guess is they are killing the series off. They killed off (removed) all but one (two if you count on Jack to return) the main characters. Captain Jack sounds like he can't face what he did here on earth. I think they ran out of ideas. It may return someday, but it will be unrecognizeable. And is it even needed since the world knows about aliens now?

Maybe if they did a whole new Torchwood. London had Torchwood 1, so could be a prequel, have the info on how Ianto came to leave etc. and Cardiff was Torchwood 3, so where was Torchwood 2? I just don't see the series returning as we knew it.

Shame, I missed Owen in Children of Earth. It sounds like most of the characters wanted out though. I think Owen and Captain Jack were my two favorites.

izzardfan · **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2009, 01:52:18 AM

Quote from: lowky on August 30, 2009, 11:44:06 PM

Do you really think Torchwood will return?

I can't remember where I read it, and don't have time to do research, but yes, Torchwood has been picked up for the next season, and Captain Jack, Gwen and Rhys will be back. I'm not sure I'll watch anymore.

lowky · **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2009, 02:28:32 AM

Quote from: izzardfan on September 01, 2009, 01:52:18 AM

Quote from: lowky on August 30, 2009, 11:44:06 PM
Do you really think Torchwood will return?

I can't remember where I read it, and don't have time to do research, but yes, Torchwood has been picked up for the next season, and Captain Jack, Gwen and Rhys will be back. I'm not sure I'll watch anymore.

Was it official. I have seen that it was and that it hasn't been yet. That Davies said that he would be willing to do it if they wanted one. There is no mention of another season on the BBC site yet.

Heradel · **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2009, 06:50:11 PM

This is the last thing I saw on it - He wants to, but hasn't gotten the pickup: http://www.fanbolt.com/headline/5017/Russell_T_Davies_Plans_The_Future_Of_'Torchwood'

stePH · **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

Finished watching the second DVD last night. Well, if it doesn't get picked up for another series, I'm OK with it. I'd like to see more Captain Jack Harkness, but at least they didn't go out cliffhanging us.

And that was some of the darkest, grimmest shit I've ever seen on TV.

Heradel · **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2009, 12:25:13 AM

You know, I do want it back, because it's rarely been bad, and Children of Men really pushed the bounds of TV SF. Galactica got to similarly grim places, but it started out a lot lower so you expected it to.

stePH · **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2009, 01:39:25 AM

Quote from: Heradel on September 04, 2009, 12:25:13 AM

You know, I do want it back, because it's rarely been bad, and Children of Men really pushed the bounds of TV SF. Galactica got to similarly grim places, but it started out a lot lower so you expected it to.

Children of Earth you mean? I thot Children of Men was a theatrical film.

Heradel · **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2009, 02:40:47 AM

Arg, yes. Though both the movie and the book for that one are also excellent, and grim.

davedoty · **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2009, 05:04:54 AM

I thought about starting a thread here, but I was wiped out from arguing on other boards.

I thought it was brilliant. I think the first two seasons were very hit-or-miss, but season three was excellent. Probably the best thing RTD has written for any of the Who franchise (although other writers have topped it in the flagship series.)

Anyone who thinks RTD is a homophobe because of this series needs their head examined. No one in the history of television has done more for gay visibility that RTD. Period.

(Since a lot of people are saying they haven't seen it, I won't be more specific.)

I'm recommending it to people who watched previous seasons but didn't like it, or that people who've never seen the show start with it. It's pretty self-explanatory. I liken it to Buffy; season three is a good Buffy season, the first two a bad Buffy season: not terrible, worth watching, but on a whole different plane of existence from the good stuff.

Heradel · **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2009, 05:58:02 AM

Quote from: davedoty on September 04, 2009, 05:04:54 AM

[...]
Anyone who thinks RTD is a homophobe because of this series needs their head examined. No one in the history of television has done more for gay visibility that RTD. Period.
[...]

He is also, unless my brain is crossing wires, gay himself.

davedoty · **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2009, 08:03:24 AM

Very true. I think they're accusing him of internalized homophobia? Or repeating homophobic patterns without realizing it?

I lie. I don't think they're doing that at all. I think they're throwing around accusations of homophobia without bothering to think about it at all, because it's an easy, cheap shot, and like the race card, trying to defend yourself just makes you look worse.

UNLESS you've created Queer as Folk, Bob and Rose, Doctor Who, and Torchwood, in which case your record speaks for itself, and you don't have to defend yourself, really.

stePH · **Reply #14 on:** September 04, 2009, 01:30:18 PM

Quote from: davedoty on September 04, 2009, 08:03:24 AM

Very true. I think they're accusing him of internalized homophobia? Or repeating homophobic patterns without realizing it?

I lie. I don't think they're doing that at all. I think they're throwing around accusations of homophobia without bothering to think about it at all, because it's an easy, cheap shot, and like the race card, trying to defend yourself just makes you look worse.

UNLESS you've created Queer as Folk, Bob and Rose, Doctor Who, and Torchwood, in which case your record speaks for itself, and you don't have to defend yourself, really.

RTD created Doctor Who? I didn't think he was that old.

Who's accusing RTD of homophobia? I've never heard that charge leveled at him.

Heradel · **Reply #15 on:** September 04, 2009, 03:17:59 PM

Quote from: stePH on September 04, 2009, 01:30:18 PM

Quote from: davedoty on September 04, 2009, 08:03:24 AM
Very true. I think they're accusing him of internalized homophobia? Or repeating homophobic patterns without realizing it?

I lie. I don't think they're doing that at all. I think they're throwing around accusations of homophobia without bothering to think about it at all, because it's an easy, cheap shot, and like the race card, trying to defend yourself just makes you look worse.

UNLESS you've created Queer as Folk, Bob and Rose, Doctor Who, and Torchwood, in which case your record speaks for itself, and you don't have to defend yourself, really.

RTD created Doctor Who? I didn't think he was that old.

Who's accusing RTD of homophobia? I've never heard that charge leveled at him.

Neither have I, though you could argue that the only surviving relationship in the show is straight and Tosh had that lesbian fling that turned out badly in Season 1 (I think).

Hopefully people here are reality-based enough not to make that charge.

davedoty · **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:42:37 PM

Quote from: stePH on September 04, 2009, 01:30:18 PM

RTD created Doctor Who? I didn't think he was that old.

Who's accusing RTD of homophobia? I've never heard that charge leveled at him.

Okay, lumping Who in with his other accomplishments created a very strange sentence. But I suspect you knew what I meant.

No one in this forum has. I've seen several people make the accusation in other fora. Those who have seen Children Of Earth can probably guess which scene inspired the accusation.

eps · **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2009, 07:18:59 PM

I finished C of E last night - got it from NetFlix and thoroughly enjoyed it. If you get it from a mail service be sure to get both discs together, if possible, to lessen the frustration of a time gap while watching. I have recommended it to everyone I know who has any interest in SF or related themes. My impression is that Torchwood has become increasingly grown-up with each series. It started with the monster of the day and has progressed nicely. Ianto is the poster boy for the more general changes that have taken place. I was finally beginning to appreciate him. Now, Rhys... not yet cottened to that character.

Heradel · **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2009, 04:38:30 AM

Quote from: Heradel on September 04, 2009, 12:25:13 AM

You know, I do want it back, because it's rarely been bad, and Children of Men really pushed the bounds of TV SF. Galactica got to similarly grim places, but it started out a lot lower so you expected it to.

Addendum: Just watch Dollhouse episode 13.

davedoty · **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:10:04 AM

Even though I thought CoE was RTD's best work yet, I'm not sure I want a fourth season. I'd only want it if it could maintain that high quality. If it's going to revert to "shagging monsters to death," I'd rather remember the series as CoE.

Heradel · **Reply #20 on:** November 13, 2009, 04:29:21 AM

And Torchwood wins another season.

Loz · **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2009, 05:17:44 PM

Oh Gods no. CoE was the first Torchwood story that was of any cop and allows them to go out on a high. If they bring them back we'll just have another season of stories where Jack is secretive for no or stupid reasons and Torchwood ruin a load of people's lives and fail to save the day. Quit while you're marginally less behind than you were!

davedoty · **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2009, 01:31:48 PM

Part of me agrees that they should go out on a high. Still, I wouldn't have thought the series could be as good as season 3, so maybe he'll surprise me and do it twice. So I'll give it a view, but with reservations.

I stopped watching Sarah Jane, so I've finally broken the "must watch all Who" feeling I've had since the 80s.

Heradel · **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2009, 01:53:05 PM

Quote from: Loz on November 23, 2009, 05:17:44 PM

Oh Gods no. CoE was the first Torchwood story that was of any cop and allows them to go out on a high. If they bring them back we'll just have another season of stories where Jack is secretive for no or stupid reasons and Torchwood ruin a load of people's lives and fail to save the day. Quit while you're marginally less behind than you were!

Someone will have to confirm I have the British(?) right here and cop in this case means good — the Season preceding this one was pretty good, but it was about as sanguinary at the end as CoE was. I think there's a lot of Captain Jack territory to be explored still, and with Davies ending his run of Who I think the next season will be good, though probably not happy.

Loz · **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2009, 09:48:48 PM

cop does indeed mean good, something which the first two seasons of Torchwood were definitely not. Doctor Who is supposed to be a show for children and Torchwood is supposed to be a more mature show and yet DW often beats it hands down for emotion and drama. Name me one moment in Torchwood that is as emotional as when Jackie and Pete are 're'-united in Doomsday or as exciting as The Sound of Drums. Shoddy and juvenile all the way through until RTD steps in to show people how drama should be done in CoE.