A writer's personal scumbaggyness vs. the quality of his work

[Talia]

There's a real interesting article/comment thread over on tor.com asking how people react when they learn a particular author, actor or other "public" figure is a bigot/racist/other variety of idiot (Orson Scott Card is a much mentioned example).

I thought it was worth mentioning here too (although I know at least one of you's already commented there.. heh. Odd recognizing handles from site to site , and maybe people can discuss it here if they like.

http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=51212

[DKT]

I thought it was worth mentioning here too (although I know at least one of you's already commented there.. heh. Odd recognizing handles from site to site , and maybe people can discuss it here if they like.

I always smile when I see your handle pop up over there

[Russell Nash]

It's kind of like a store, isn't it?  If the owner of a store was some kind of scum, I would have to set that off against how great the store was.  It's the same thing with an author/actor/musician.

[stePH]

I know I've mentioned this before, but I enjoy the fiction of L. Ron Hubbard, one of the most contemptible people who ever lived.

Orson Scott Card is another good example.  All the themes in his writing of tolerance and acceptance of people who are different, seem kind of weird coming from a man who's a homophobic bigot.  I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if he also turned out to think non-white people are inferior to whites (he's a Mormon, which I understand has a bit of institutionalized racism in its philosophy/worldview)

[DKT]

As I said in the Tor.com thread, it really depends. I think I can seperate an artist from his art. And in general, never's an awfully long time to swear not to read someone ever again. Also, some people make mistakes and own up to them.

I suppose it also depends on whether or not I'm already familiar with a writer. Frex: If OSC wrote something people told me was AMAZING, I'd read it. (I know that's a serious *if*.)

I haven't read much by Paul Di Fillipo before, but I wouldn't be opposed to reading more, even if I think some of his recent comments have been...odd.

I'm not familiar with John C. Wright and at this point after reading his rant, I'd prefer to stay that way for a little while.

It's kind of like a store, isn't it?  If the owner of a store was some kind of scum, I would have to set that off against how great the store was.  It's the same thing with an author/actor/musician.

I don't know if it's the same...I mean, I think Tom Cruise is something of an idiot, but there's a good chance that won't deter me from seeing his movies.

[lowky]

Does anybody know of O S Card was a mormon when he first wrote Ender's Game?  The series certainly seemed to get more preachy as it went on.  Just curious if he always had his bigotry, or if it was warped by becoming religious.  I mean look at GW Bush, he was a partier etc. and then "found god" (why do I always hear "Could Jehovah please meet his party by the customer return desk" over a crackly store speaker system when ever I see that phrase) and turned into a religious nut job bent on world conquest (mostly to protect reseize his families oil interests in Iraq, but still).

[Boggled Coriander]

Orson Scott Card is another good example.  All the themes of tolerance and acceptance of people who are different in his writing, seem kind of weird coming from a man who's a homophobic bigot.  I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if he also turned out to think non-white people are inferior to whites (he's a Mormon, which I understand has a bit of institutionalized racism in its philosophy/worldview)

In OSC's defense, I've read a good deal of his political writings from the 2000-2003 period, and from what he wrote on race I genuinely believe he doesn't think non-whites are inferior.

And that, everybody, is as far as I'm willing to go in OSC's defense.

[izzardfan]

The link at the Tor.com page to John C. Wright's live journal post is invalid because he removed his post.  He goes on to explain why in several posts, as well as a concession.  I don't read his books, nor did I get to read the post he pulled that started all this but I did read the original post, thanks to Google Reader's RSS feed.  If you do the same, read all that he's posted since that first post before forming an opinion.  I'm just updating the situation.

[Zathras]

Purple.  Purple purple purple, purple.  Purple purple purple Purple purple.  PURPLE!

[Bdoomed]

^ U iz Purple King of Interwebz!

[stePH]

^ U iz Purple King of Interwebz!

I am Joe's purple king of interwebz.

[DKT]

Does anybody know of O S Card was a mormon when he first wrote Ender's Game?  The series certainly seemed to get more preachy as it went on.  Just curious if he always had his bigotry, or if it was warped by becoming religious.  I mean look at GW Bush, he was a partier etc. and then "found god" (why do I always hear "Could Jehovah please meet his party by the customer return desk" over a crackly store speaker system when ever I see that phrase) and turned into a religious nut job bent on world conquest (mostly to protect reseize his families oil interests in Iraq, but still).

Yes, I'm pretty sure he was a Mormon when he wrote Ender's Game. I seem to remember that in the afterword to The Worthing Saga (IIRC) he talked about being sending in a short story submission (in the Worthing Saga universe) on the day he got married, and it was a LDS wedding.

I also feel it important to point out that just because someone practices faith or religion does not mean they're a nut job. Mr. Wright is not the mascot of my faith. Religion can warp things, sure. But so can a lot of other stuff.

[Talia]

Purple.  Purple purple purple, purple.  Purple purple purple Purple purple.  PURPLE!

Mushroom, mushroom?

[lowky]

Does anybody know of O S Card was a mormon when he first wrote Ender's Game?  The series certainly seemed to get more preachy as it went on.  Just curious if he always had his bigotry, or if it was warped by becoming religious.  I mean look at GW Bush, he was a partier etc. and then "found god" (why do I always hear "Could Jehovah please meet his party by the customer return desk" over a crackly store speaker system when ever I see that phrase) and turned into a religious nut job bent on world conquest (mostly to protect reseize his families oil interests in Iraq, but still).

Yes, I'm pretty sure he was a Mormon when he wrote Ender's Game. I seem to remember that in the afterword to The Worthing Saga (IIRC) he talked about being sending in a short story submission (in the Worthing Saga universe) on the day he got married, and it was a LDS wedding.

I also feel it important to point out that just because someone practices faith or religion does not mean they're a nut job. Mr. Wright is not the mascot of my faith. Religion can warp things, sure. But so can a lot of other stuff.

Faith or religion doesn't mean nut job but many of the people who "find god" (Paging Jehovah, will Jehovah please meet your party at...) tend to feel the need that since I became religious and think it's great You will too OR ELSE!  Everyone is free to believe their religion but they don't have the right to force their on me.  Trust me I have had to work security at events for religious groups (think hundreds or thousands to hear a speaker), I had a jewish friend who was in tears because the way a "Christian" (maybe in name sure as hell not in practice) woman treated her.  The woman might have actually taken a swing she looked like she was about to when we stepped between them.  This woman was calling my friend Jesus' murderer and screaming she would burn in hell for not accepting Jesus as her personal Lord and Savior.   I have been harrased because I am pagan by these same people.  I am sure there are just as many nut jobs on the atheistic/Non-Christian sides of things, but the religious conferences for Christians seem to bring out the nut jobs.  We had one guy who got fired when asked by literally the 20th person in a row if he had found Jesus Christ, put in a page for a missing person, asking the person who asked him to describe this Jesus person.  Yes inappropriate, but if you had been there you would have laughed too, no matter your religion or lack there of.

[Talia]

We had one guy who got fired when asked by literally the 20th person in a row if he had found Jesus Christ, put in a page for a missing person, asking the person who asked him to describe this Jesus person.  Yes inappropriate, but if you had been there you would have laughed too, no matter your religion or lack there of.

That is awesome.

Which reminds me. I read the most fantasic, blasphemous story the other day, by Ken MacLeod.
Which apparently, I see after a quick search, is available as a free podcast courtesy of StarshipSofa. Hot diggity.

I HIGHLY recommend this, absolutely hilarious.

http://freesf.blogspot.com/2009/02/jesus-christ-reanimator-ken-macleod.html

Not to get spoilery, but the very first paragraph involves the Armies of the Lord being shot down by the Israeli Defense Force. :p

[stePH]

I just read the article linked to in the first post.  While I might buy works of people I dislike personally, I make it a point to never EVER buy a new copy of anything by Hubbard, and I recommend others do the same.  The reason being, that all of Hubbard's fiction is published by Galaxy Press which is wholly owned by the Church of Scientology.

[Talia]

I just read the article linked to in the first post.  While I might buy works of people I dislike personally, I make it a point to never EVER buy a new copy of anything by Hubbard, and I recommend others do the same.  The reason being, that all of Hubbard's fiction is published by Galaxy Press which is wholly owned by the Church of Scientology.

Ewww.

[DKT]

I just read the article linked to in the first post.  While I might buy works of people I dislike personally, I make it a point to never EVER buy a new copy of anything by Hubbard, and I recommend others do the same.  The reason being, that all of Hubbard's fiction is published by Galaxy Press which is wholly owned by the Church of Scientology.

Ewww.

Although if you're a new writer, I would heartily recommend the L. Ron Hubbard's Writers of the Future Contest.

Funny bit of trivia: OSC is occasionally a judge!

[DKT]

Does anybody know of O S Card was a mormon when he first wrote Ender's Game?  The series certainly seemed to get more preachy as it went on.  Just curious if he always had his bigotry, or if it was warped by becoming religious.  I mean look at GW Bush, he was a partier etc. and then "found god" (why do I always hear "Could Jehovah please meet his party by the customer return desk" over a crackly store speaker system when ever I see that phrase) and turned into a religious nut job bent on world conquest (mostly to protect reseize his families oil interests in Iraq, but still).

Yes, I'm pretty sure he was a Mormon when he wrote Ender's Game. I seem to remember that in the afterword to The Worthing Saga (IIRC) he talked about being sending in a short story submission (in the Worthing Saga universe) on the day he got married, and it was a LDS wedding.

I also feel it important to point out that just because someone practices faith or religion does not mean they're a nut job. Mr. Wright is not the mascot of my faith. Religion can warp things, sure. But so can a lot of other stuff.

Faith or religion doesn't mean nut job but many of the people who "find god" (Paging Jehovah, will Jehovah please meet your party at...) tend to feel the need that since I became religious and think it's great You will too OR ELSE!  Everyone is free to believe their religion but they don't have the right to force their on me.  Trust me I have had to work security at events for religious groups (think hundreds or thousands to hear a speaker), I had a jewish friend who was in tears because the way a "Christian" (maybe in name sure as hell not in practice) woman treated her.  The woman might have actually taken a swing she looked like she was about to when we stepped between them.  This woman was calling my friend Jesus' murderer and screaming she would burn in hell for not accepting Jesus as her personal Lord and Savior.   I have been harrased because I am pagan by these same people.  I am sure there are just as many nut jobs on the atheistic/Non-Christian sides of things, but the religious conferences for Christians seem to bring out the nut jobs.  We had one guy who got fired when asked by literally the 20th person in a row if he had found Jesus Christ, put in a page for a missing person, asking the person who asked him to describe this Jesus person.  Yes inappropriate, but if you had been there you would have laughed too, no matter your religion or lack there of.

I wasn't there, but I'm still laughing 

You won't get any argument from me that some Christians, especially at conferences, are idiots. This becomes especially apparent in the evangelical political context. And I can't speak for them, even though we somehow have the same label. But I agree with you, they're idiots. I'm just tired of being lumped in with them, and I'm too stubborn to change my label.

I think Christians shouldn't be dicks. I don't care what you believe about homosexuality, but even if you believe it is a sin (which personally, I do not) that doesn't mean you should be a dick. You love people. If you believe anything about Jesus' teachings, you believe that.

[stePH]

Some of these people need to read the book I just finished last week (If God Were Real by John Avant).  Which reminds me, I still have a review to write.

[lowky]

I wasn't there, but I'm still laughing 

You won't get any argument from me that some Christians, especially at conferences, are idiots. This becomes especially apparent in the evangelical political context. And I can't speak for them, even though we somehow have the same label. But I agree with you, they're idiots. I'm just tired of being lumped in with them, and I'm too stubborn to change my label.

I think Christians shouldn't be dicks. I don't care what you believe about homosexuality, but even if you believe it is a sin (which personally, I do not) that doesn't mean you should be a dick. You love people. If you believe anything about Jesus' teachings, you believe that.

It does make you wonder if Jesus returns as per the biblical teachings, how many of his self-professed "most ardent followers" would he accept into heaven at the rapture.  I think he would tell most of them, you got it 100% wrong.  They forget the teachings of hate the sin, not the sinner, etc. 

[DKT]

I wasn't there, but I'm still laughing 

You won't get any argument from me that some Christians, especially at conferences, are idiots. This becomes especially apparent in the evangelical political context. And I can't speak for them, even though we somehow have the same label. But I agree with you, they're idiots. I'm just tired of being lumped in with them, and I'm too stubborn to change my label.

I think Christians shouldn't be dicks. I don't care what you believe about homosexuality, but even if you believe it is a sin (which personally, I do not) that doesn't mean you should be a dick. You love people. If you believe anything about Jesus' teachings, you believe that.

It does make you wonder if Jesus returns as per the biblical teachings, how many of his self-professed "most ardent followers" would he accept into heaven at the rapture.  I think he would tell most of them, you got it 100% wrong.  They forget the teachings of hate the sin, not the sinner, etc. 

Well, I think if you look at the passage about the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25, this is essentially what Jesus is talking about. I was naked, and you did not clothe me. I was hungry and thirsty, and you didn't offer me food or water.

I know reading that passage, it makes me think there's so much more I can do that I don't. I'm not sure how someone who professes to be a Christian can read it and then ridicule or spew hate toward other human beings.