Author Topic: Pseudopod 167: Love Like Thunder (Read 41888 times)

bethelash · **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:41:42 AM

"The way you walked was thorny, through no fault of your own. But as the rain enters the soil, the river enters the sea..."
Jim what is this a quote from?

gelee · **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2009, 02:02:52 AM

Quote from: Jim Bihyeh on November 17, 2009, 09:41:05 PM

Shawn Garrett... I'll remember that name now. I can't thank Shawn enough.

And I apologize for the attribution error.

Mea culpa. No disrespect intended.

Hey, no culpas needed. I know Shawn isn't worried about it. I just want to make sure I don't take someone elses credit

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #27 on:** November 18, 2009, 03:18:40 AM

Good to hear there's no culpa. I really do appreciate Shawn's hard work.

As for the quote, it's from "The Wolf Man," starring Lon Chaney, Jr. It's a great line that the gypsy speaks over him to change him from monster to man after he's caught in a bear-trap. It's always been a neat piece of poetry I've carried with me since I saw the movie when I was a kid.

nevermore_66 · **Reply #28 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:34:21 AM

Hey, Jim. Fantastic story.

Sort of American Gods but with more of a World of darkness sensibility...yet all it's own animal. I can't wait to read the other Coyote tales.

I was a fan of ARE YOU AFRAID OF THE DARK too

Your use of the refrain of "love" and going to the graveyard to find love and using love to heal himself, ect. was very affective. The use of the Native American lore was great and the details of it were revealed at a perfect pace.

wakela · **Reply #29 on:** November 18, 2009, 11:13:15 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 16, 2009, 01:08:14 AM

I liked this one a lot. It was interesting to watch the villain turn out to be the hero... except that, as Alasdair points out, it's not about heroes or villains- it's just their nature, and nature doesn't really give a rip about us at all. And, thankfully, neither does supernature.

Well said, and more concisely than I would have.

I proudly join the orgy of praise for this story and it's production. The voices were distinct without being cheesy, and I quickly forgot that they were read by the same person.

The story was a blast. The supernatural rules were unusual, interesting, subtlety and effectively explained, and didn't leave any silly holes. My preconceptions of who was good and who was evil were played with and then made irrelevant. There are not nearly enough stories set in Native American culture, much less stories without any cowboysnindians or Noble Savages. Gimme more.

Jim Bihyeh: I know less about Navajo mythology than you do about new media publishing. How much of the mythology in this story was your invention and how much was "authentic?" (I don't mean to imply that one of those is better than the other).

Fantasy or horror. Too many rotting corpses and tonguing eye sockets for fantasy, not scary enough for horror. I'm just thankful there is a medium for stories like this.

nevermore_66 · **Reply #30 on:** November 19, 2009, 12:08:31 AM

Yeah, it's been my experience that the stories I like best are the ones toe the lines of different genres.

And it's always seemed that Escape Artists has been a good home for that kind of thing.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #31 on:** November 19, 2009, 02:24:44 AM

Thanks for the comparison to American Gods. I read that novel during a Greyhound bus ride across the country when I was in college, and the concept really stuck with me.

It resurfaced again just the other night when I was drying the dishes and started thinking about the Ancient Greeks. They had these incredible myths and such inventive stories. And I wondered why they didn’t have horror stories.

The Greek gods really were just as intense and flawed as the people who worshipped them, only infinitely more powerful. And whenever the gods "noticed" you, your life tended to turn to shit pretty soon after - if you weren't dismembered and beheaded by a mob of crazed naked women or drowned by a tidal wave, you might just get away with eternal starvation or being poisoned by a jealous lover.

Either way, it was all about a universe - a cruel, brutal, and oh-so-determined universe - picking you out until it picked you apart.

And so I wondered - as I slid the final saucer into the cabinet - why didn't the Greeks have any horror tales? And then I got my answer: they did.

Today, we call them "myths."

And thank goodness we teach them to our children.

I wonder if we're at fault for confining a tale to a "genre" in the first place. Wonder is wonder and fright makes right.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #32 on:** November 19, 2009, 02:32:56 AM

Cowboysnindians

That's a good one.

As for authenticity...

I feel I merely expanded on pattern that already exist in the Navajo mythos. There are certain rules that govern the Navajo world, and I don't dare violate them in my stories (for both philosophical and very real safety reasons).

There are no "thunderbirds" in the Navajo stories, but there are entities of Thunder (i.e. - "Blue Thunder" and "Black Thunder"). It's understood that most of the physical forms of the Holy People are open to interpretation and are constantly changing.

I merely tried to step into the character of one of these "Thunders." Dondo is a combination of many mythic elements surrounding the concept of thunder and lightning: it's a powerful and dangerous thing. Case in point: during a fifth grade sandpainting project in my elementary school Navajo culture class, my teacher warned all of us not to create any lightning bolts or storm patterns with the sand we were gluing to our squares of particle board.

But I had already etched a wide lightning bolt arching over a howling wolf - a pattern of my favorite "spirit wolf" t-shirt that I owned as a kid. Mrs. Begay grabbed my sandpainting like it was on fire and rubbed out the lightning pattern. I had to change my blue-sand wolf to a dog (there are many taboos about wolves, also) and all was restored to harmony... I think I still got a B on the sandpainting, though.

Bdoomed · **Reply #33 on:** November 19, 2009, 02:35:35 AM

Quote from: Jim Bihyeh on November 19, 2009, 02:24:44 AM

Thanks for the comparison to American Gods. I read that novel during a Greyhound bus ride across the country when I was in college, and the concept really stuck with me.

It resurfaced again just the other night when I was drying the dishes and started thinking about the Ancient Greeks. They had these incredible myths and such inventive stories. And I wondered why they didn’t have horror stories.

The Greek gods really were just as intense and flawed as the people who worshipped them, only infinitely more powerful. And whenever the gods "noticed" you, your life tended to turn to shit pretty soon after - if you weren't dismembered and beheaded by a mob of crazed naked women or drowned by a tidal wave, you might just get away with eternal starvation or being poisoned by a jealous lover.

Either way, it was all about a universe - a cruel, brutal, and oh-so-determined universe - picking you out until it picked you apart.

And so I wondered - as I slid the final saucer into the cabinet - why didn't the Greeks have any horror tales? And then I got my answer: they did.

Today, we call them "myths."

And thank goodness we teach them to our children.

I wonder if we're at fault for confining a tale to a "genre" in the first place. Wonder is wonder and fright makes right.

wait... I thought you were Jim Bihyeh not Alasdair Stewart

Bdoomed · **Reply #34 on:** November 19, 2009, 02:41:35 AM

anyways, as for the story, you did a great job of using the mythos without needing the reader to know them. I have not the first inkling of knowledge of Navajo myth, but that did not in any way hinder my enjoyment of the story. The boundaries of the magic were unknown to me, but they were outlined as they were needed, and nothing seemed too far-fetched. I would say I'd like to see it as a movie or something, but it would probably end up like those half-assed scifi movies that focus more on bad CGI than on good acting.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #35 on:** November 19, 2009, 10:49:03 AM

Quote from: Bdoomed on November 19, 2009, 02:41:35 AM

I have not the first inkling of knowledge of Navajo myth, but that did not in any way hinder my enjoyment of the story. The boundaries of the magic were unknown to me, but they were outlined as they were needed, and nothing seemed too far-fetched.

Great point about some of those Scifi Channel (oh, sorry... ScyFy?) movies that were more about falsely-lit CGI puppetry and less about real characters.

And thanks for the kudos about the mythos in the story. I need to tip my hat on that trick. If you're ever interested to see an AMAZING writer handle storytelling and cultural explanation nearly seamlessly, pick up James Welch. His historical novel, "Fools Crow," the story of a warrior from the Blackfoot tribe in Montana having to negotiate around the arrival of the "napikwans" (Anglo people), is an excellent example of how to work foreign ideas into a familiar story that people from both cultures can enjoy.

And thanks for the Alasdair comparison. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and Al's a good one to imitate.

eytanz · **Reply #36 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:55:10 PM

I really, really enjoyed this one. I was a bit confused by the ending - I'm not entirely sure what went down between the old man and the girl that made her shoot her classmates - but overall, a great tale with surprising amount of depth for its length.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #37 on:** November 20, 2009, 03:48:32 PM

Quote from: eytanz on November 19, 2009, 08:55:10 PM

I really, really enjoyed this one. I was a bit confused by the ending - I'm not entirely sure what went down between the old man and the girl that made her shoot her classmates - but overall, a great tale with surprising amount of depth for its length.

I'm glad you enjoyed "Love Like Thunder," and you raise an excellent point about the relationship between the old man and Lynette.

It's a relationship that is explored in the other Coyote Tales. There's more

bumdhar · **Reply #38 on:** November 23, 2009, 06:08:35 PM

I live in Minnesota. I downloaded this podcast before I went to visit relations in Page Arizona, which borders on Navajo Nation. Unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to listen to this podcast while out there, but it was great to listen to it upon retuning. I think it is the best podcast I’ve heard so far in terms of reading and writing. And what happy coincidence just having returned from the scene of the action! I look forward to devouring more works by Mr.Bihyeh. I loved it.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #39 on:** November 23, 2009, 06:55:53 PM

Quote from: bumdhar on November 23, 2009, 06:08:35 PM

I live in Minnesota. I downloaded this podcast before I went to visit relations in Page Arizona, which borders on Navajo Nation. Unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to listen to this podcast while out there, but it was great to listen to it upon retuning. I think it is the best podcast I’ve heard so far in terms of reading and writing. And what happy coincidence just having returned from the scene of the action! I look forward to devouring more works by Mr.Bihyeh. I loved it.

Ah, I'm glad to hear you had a great set-up for the story. Maybe it's better that you heard the work once you returned (some nice reflection that way, eh?). The rocky country of Glen and Marble Canyon are desolately beautiful, and if you ever get down to Bitter Springs, Arizona, you can see some fascinating views and arroyos.

It is indeed a small world. I graduated from Page High School after my family moved off the Reservation. And I still have close family who live just outside of Page.

And if you enjoyed this podcast, check out my other story, Pseudopod Episode 159: "Reservation Monsters," read by the excellent Ben Phillips. It features the same Coyote figure and is set in the town of Ganado, Arizona.

I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the story!

bumdhar · **Reply #40 on:** November 23, 2009, 08:06:58 PM

Jim, thanks for replying, it is indeed a small world. Next time I'm there (hopefully soon) we'll check out Bitter Springs. And I'll be downloading episode 159 tonight...

melopoiea · **Reply #41 on:** November 25, 2009, 05:12:40 PM

More by Jim Bihyeh! More stories like this! Not only the turnabout (for some reason I always think of Coyote as a hero) but the complexity of the characters really engaged me.

Even the grossout moments weren't a problem for me, but I'm starting to think I'm sort of blase and not a good baseline on that.

Also, when Jim Bihyeh puts out that collection, can you guys mention it? I want to buy a copy. Thanks!

eytanz · **Reply #42 on:** November 28, 2009, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: Jim Bihyeh on November 23, 2009, 06:55:53 PM

And if you enjoyed this podcast, check out my other story, Pseudopod Episode 159: "Reservation Monsters," read by the excellent Ben Phillips. It features the same Coyote figure and is set in the town of Ganado, Arizona.

You know, until I read this comment I never realized the two stories happened in the same world - there's a big change in tone between the two (Reservation Monsters being told from the POV of someone much lower in the food chain than the protagonist here).

So, from the two stories - Coyote seems to approach young, maladjusted kids who are rejected by their peers, and it ends in murder. What he's aiming to achieve - is the violence a goal or is it just a by-product - is not clear to me...

heyes · **Reply #43 on:** November 28, 2009, 12:28:14 PM

Awesome awesome awesome! I have mailed this story out to many friends. A really good example of telling, I dunno, hard-boiled myth? Okay maybe that's not a great term, but the story was both well written and well read. Mr. Bihyeh I will definitely be going back to your earlier entry (159) for a re-listen. Keep up the good work.

[edited]

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #44 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:51:09 PM

Quote from: heyes on November 28, 2009, 12:28:14 PM

Awesome awesome awesome! I have mailed this story out to many friends. I really good touch at telling, I dunno, hard-boiled myth? Okay maybe that's not a great term, but the story was both well written and well read. Mr. Bihyeh I will definitely be going back to your earlier entry (159) for a re-listen. Keep up the good work.

It's great to be worthy of a triumvirate of awesome! Finally!

I'm so thrilled you enjoyed the story. And I like the new subgenre you've created: "Hard-boiled myth." It's an intriguing term...

And I appreciate telling your friends about the story. There's nothing better than sharing a good story with strangers who then become less strange... especially when you find they're just as strange as you

.

As for the comment about Coyote's methods: yes, he does tend to recruite young talent and use his cunning to bend their raw - yet naive - energy to his will (that seems to be the way of the world, though, isn't it? The older prey on the ideals of the young). And yes, he does have a catastophic plan and a rather mischevious scheme (i.e. he did have a purpose in acquiring four thunderbird feathers). I can't wait to share that story, when the time comes...

heyes · **Reply #45 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:23:50 PM

Quote from: Jim Bihyeh on November 28, 2009, 02:51:09 PM

Quote from: heyes on November 28, 2009, 12:28:14 PM
Awesome awesome awesome! I have mailed this story out to many friends. A really good example of telling, I dunno, hard-boiled myth? Okay maybe that's not a great term, but the story was both well written and well read. Mr. Bihyeh I will definitely be going back to your earlier entry (159) for a re-listen. Keep up the good work.

(boy I should have my caffeine before posting in the forums)

It's great to be worthy of a triumvirate of awesome! Finally!

I'm so thrilled you enjoyed the story. And I like the new subgenre you've created: "Hard-boiled myth." It's an intriguing term...

And I appreciate telling your friends about the story. There's nothing better than sharing a good story with strangers who then become less strange... especially when you find they're just as strange as you .

As for the comment about Coyote's methods: yes, he does tend to recruite young talent and use his cunning to bend their raw - yet naive - energy to his will (that seems to be the way of the world, though, isn't it? The older prey on the ideals of the young). And yes, he does have a catastophic plan and a rather mischevious scheme (i.e. he did have a purpose in acquiring four thunderbird feathers). I can't wait to share that story, when the time comes...

eytanz · **Reply #46 on:** November 28, 2009, 05:56:53 PM

Quote from: Jim Bihyeh on November 28, 2009, 02:51:09 PM

As for the comment about Coyote's methods: yes, he does tend to recruite young talent and use his cunning to bend their raw - yet naive - energy to his will (that seems to be the way of the world, though, isn't it? The older prey on the ideals of the young). And yes, he does have a catastophic plan and a rather mischevious scheme (i.e. he did have a purpose in acquiring four thunderbird feathers). I can't wait to share that story, when the time comes...

But he failed to get the feathers in this story, if I remember correctly. I hope I do...

I guess I'll have to re-read this story when the full story sequence comes out - I hope you'll drop us all a note here about that when it happens

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #47 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:01:23 PM

Quote from: eytanz on November 28, 2009, 05:56:53 PM

But he failed to get the feathers in this story, if I remember correctly. I hope I do...

I guess I'll have to re-read this story when the full story sequence comes out - I hope you'll drop us all a note here about that when it happens

You were dead-on: Coyote doesn't get the feathers in this story. But he finds another way. In any prairie dog town, there's always more than one hole to enter by...

Thanks for your attentiont to detail!

cdugger · **Reply #48 on:** December 01, 2009, 01:01:34 AM

Well, I had a Pseudopod day at work today, and was sorely disappointed.

Until I listened to Love Like Thunder.

Great story. Great reading. Period.

I did remember Reservation Monsters as I listened, but wasn't aware it was the same author. Should have, though.

Jim, keep 'em coming!

You asked for ideas? I'll PM you one.

Jim Bihyeh · **Reply #49 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:09:02 PM

Quote from: cdugger on December 01, 2009, 01:01:34 AM

Well, I had a Pseudopod day at work today, and was sorely disappointed.

Until I listened to Love Like Thunder.

Great story. Great reading. Period.

I really can't thank you enough for the compliment. It really means a lot that you took time during your day to tune into the wonderful and terrible world of Ganado, Arizona...