Author Topic: Union Dues may be coming to television!  (Read 81513 times)

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Reply #75 on: January 31, 2010, 04:13:32 AM
I'd say depict the superstrategists the way they do in the stories: vaugely Batman-ish heroes (dark, less eye-catching costumes; reliance on cunning and gadgets) that give out orders and are usually team leaders or the right hands of the team leader. Their costumes/personas don't seem to be based around intellect either. Darksider, Emerald Blaze, Skeleton Steele, and so on. Of course despite Steele's bit of narration about the costumes of strategists, Emerald Blaze's name would suggest that "non-eye-catching" is not a hard and fast rule.

The Union seems to go out of their way to give each super an individual and distinct costume and persona, make them into a character, but beneath that skin-deep layer they seem to be treated like interchangeable parts; several codified tactical roles. Of course there are exceptions, like the solo missions that show up in the stories a little.

The fact that they're a bunch of highly trained professionals in body armor working together as a team should help the costumes work. And when you have a single hero in the spotlight, narratively depicted as more comicbooky, sheer characterization should pull off the feat.

Also, what will overall make the costumes work is how important they are to the story. Inside the Pyramids Union members have to wear domino masks at all times, even when they're alone in their rooms. How creepy is that?



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Reply #76 on: February 02, 2010, 06:58:21 PM
Like it or not, in the American cultural lexicon, superhero costumes = kids and geeks (Power Rangers, Cartoons, etc).  Geeks as a demographic, don't really represent well on the Neilsen, tending to use the internet to watch videos.  You can argue the validity of ratings if you want, but I have a feeling that's what the TV execs are going to look at.  I think these (perception & rating) are going to be the biggest hurdles.

Looking at the 800gounion website, I like the theme of "the union" as a bad corporate entity.  I think there's promise of using spoofy/ironic "go union" commercial in the theme of Starship Troopers or Battlestar Galactica.  That's be a good way to introducing costumed superheroes in a non-kids-show kind of way, and instantly communicates what the show will be about.  I also think the lighting and coloring of the Watchmen movie was good in communicating that this isn't some golden-age-era superhero show.





deflective

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Reply #77 on: February 06, 2010, 10:08:09 AM
i've written union dues fanfic!  hope it's your first.

this is the opening act for a pilot episode that combines all that we leave behind & off white lies.  by starting with these two stories there are two staple superhero tropes: an origin story and a superpower battle.  only the fight from off white lies is included in the pilot, the first season story arc will be an investigation of the battle under the radar by the main characters.  the goal is the characters' (and audience's) gradual disillusionment in the union as the season progresses until the revelation in the finale that the union created & killed the supervillians.

[Mod: Story edited out at request of Author]


also, saw this and thought of Kinetic Girl:

« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 02:38:45 AM by Heradel »



jrderego

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Reply #78 on: February 07, 2010, 02:27:38 AM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates. So I'm asking nicely, please don't write more. I've asked the mods to remove the story as well. Hope you understand.

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Bdoomed

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Reply #79 on: February 07, 2010, 02:49:12 AM
fan art still okay?

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


jrderego

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Reply #80 on: February 07, 2010, 03:01:17 AM
fan art still okay?

Art, i.e. drawing, multimedia, that sort of stuff is fine. But please no fan fiction.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 03:03:48 AM by jrderego »

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deflective

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Reply #81 on: February 07, 2010, 09:10:14 AM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates. So I'm asking nicely, please don't write more. I've asked the mods to remove the story as well. Hope you understand.

i don't really understand but i'm not vested enough to be upset if that's what you mean.  the only thing that irritates me at all is that you felt that you needed to get a moderator to edit my post instead of asking directly.

out of curiosity, there's a legal difference between people giving plot ideas in an open forum and people giving plot examples?



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Reply #82 on: February 07, 2010, 06:22:18 PM
fan art still okay?

That isn't fan art either, it's something unrelated deflective found on the net - actually it's a character study done for a webcomic some friends of mine are putting together.  Should be fantastic when it comes out!



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Reply #83 on: February 07, 2010, 06:25:23 PM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates. So I'm asking nicely, please don't write more. I've asked the mods to remove the story as well. Hope you understand.

i don't really understand but i'm not vested enough to be upset if that's what you mean.  the only thing that irritates me at all is that you felt that you needed to get a moderator to edit my post instead of asking directly.

My guess is that it was quicker and easier to have a mod do it than wait for you to come back on.  Chill, pickle.

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Reply #84 on: February 07, 2010, 07:20:48 PM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates. So I'm asking nicely, please don't write more. I've asked the mods to remove the story as well. Hope you understand.

i don't really understand but i'm not vested enough to be upset if that's what you mean.  the only thing that irritates me at all is that you felt that you needed to get a moderator to edit my post instead of asking directly.

My guess is that it was quicker and easier to have a mod do it than wait for you to come back on.  Chill, pickle.

Basically, it was less complicated for me to go in and quickly edit it out instead of waiting for you to come back online. I did email you about it (at the email on your forum profile) at around the same time, but in these situations it's better to get it down quicker.

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Reply #85 on: February 07, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates.

Let me start by saying that I'm all for this Union Dues on TV venture, and would hate for anything to complicate it, and I am glad you were so pleasant when asking that fanfiction be removed from this forum.  Also, I realize that this is a private forum, and not any one person's blog or website, which means the moderators and owner(s) have the right to remove anything as they see fit.  Further, my question is only out of curiosity, wanting more information, and NOT a "who do you think you are" thing, or anything like that.  I'm on your side.   ;D

My question is, how does fanfiction complicate things (if you can tell us)?  Is it because it's not an established TV production yet?  (The paperwork isn't signed yet.)  I see fanfiction online all the time for works like Harry Potter, Buffy, Star Trek, etc., which doesn't seem to have any legal repercussions.  What makes this different?



Heradel

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Reply #86 on: February 07, 2010, 08:11:01 PM
While I am flattered that you've taken the time to write this, please don't create Union Dues fanfiction, there are rights issues with this intellectual property that fanfiction severely complicates.
[...]
My question is, how does fanfiction complicate things (if you can tell us)?  Is it because it's not an established TV production yet?  (The paperwork isn't signed yet.)  I see fanfiction online all the time for works like Harry Potter, Buffy, Star Trek, etc., which doesn't seem to have any legal repercussions.  What makes this different?

There are a few basic problems here. The first is that DeRego likely doesn't have sole ownership of the Union Dues rights anymore, and so probably couldn't authorize it on his own. The second problem is that if a fanfic were posted that resembled a story that one of the show's writers did on their own the show would be open to lawsuit over it (one of the shows in Babylon 5's first season was killed due to a similar spec script coming in, and I think Trek has had a few lawsuits over the years with these issues). Especially given that this thread was created on behalf of the people trying to make a TV show it would be dubious if they claimed to have never seen it.

Now, there is a lot of fan fiction out there off of already created shows, and most of it the original content creators let it be because the shows are over it would be an enormous hassle to go after the tens of thousands of fan fiction stories. Some have fairly explicit hands off policies — like Lucasfilm — for not going after it, but I'm certain there's been a lot of work done to ensure that writers for the upcoming and ongoing Star Wars TV shows aren't exposed to fan fiction.

Edit to add: These are fairly good sum-ups of a related case where someone wrote a sequel to Catcher in the Rye, and the late J.D. Salinger sued over it before he was late.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 08:14:21 PM by Heradel »

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Reply #87 on: February 07, 2010, 08:11:37 PM
The difference is primarily that he's here, reading what's posted.  Therefore, if the show used an idea similar to what you wrote, you could reasonably claim that he stole your idea.  Usually when fanfic is being posted somewhere, the various authors avoid the spots where it's posted.  

Also, fan fic is never really okay legally.  It is using creator's intellectual property.  Some creators personally mind, some don't - but legally they can't just allow it and still claim sole rights to the characters.  Of course, fan fic is impossible to stop, and few creators want to alienate their biggest fans by actively trying to shut it down.  But at a minimum it needs to be off somewhere that the creator can avoid it.



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Reply #88 on: February 07, 2010, 08:46:04 PM
fan art still okay?

That isn't fan art either, it's something unrelated deflective found on the net - actually it's a character study done for a webcomic some friends of mine are putting together.  Should be fantastic when it comes out!
Oh I know, the question was if making fan art was okay.  I know that the piece in deflective's post isn't anything to worry about.

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


deflective

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Reply #89 on: February 07, 2010, 11:30:14 PM
if fanfic were posted that resembled a story that one of the show's writers did on their own the show would be open to lawsuit over it

this is what i assumed but this is a thread where they're literally asking us to post plot ideas.  there must be a legal distinction between laying out a plot in point form and actually writing character dialogue.

i wasn't trying to be snarky before, i genuinely don't understand where the line is and have an interest in the television making processes.



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Reply #90 on: February 08, 2010, 09:24:53 AM
if fanfic were posted that resembled a story that one of the show's writers did on their own the show would be open to lawsuit over it

this is what i assumed but this is a thread where they're literally asking us to post plot ideas.  there must be a legal distinction between laying out a plot in point form and actually writing character dialogue.

i wasn't trying to be snarky before, i genuinely don't understand where the line is and have an interest in the television making processes.

I think it's not so much that there are clear legal distinctions, but more that there aren't. Rather, it's more that if it does come to court, both sides will be trying to present their contribution as substantial. Remember, all that Jeff has done, so far, is write stories in the UD universe. Thus, from a certainly (albeit skewed) perspective, if you write a story in this universe, you could make the point that you have had equal contribution. That's what they need to prevent. They do run the risk of someone else on this thread writing bulletpoints and taking them to court over that - but the risk there must be much smaller.

And note that this is not exactly a thread soliciting for plot ideas. Doug made a specific list of requests:

1. fan art
2. suggestions
3. favorite characters
4. comments on the success/failure of other superhero themed shows.

Note that plot points are not mentioned; there is a blanket request for "suggestions", but I think it's worth keeping in mind that plot points were not specifically asked for.



deflective

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Reply #91 on: February 08, 2010, 02:17:05 PM
Talk about costumes, endings, story elements, arcs and plots, actors you think fit certain parts, etc... All of that is more than welcome, it's solicited! Keep it coming!

note that i talked very generally until this post and even then only wrote a couple paragraphs of narrative at a time before posting a full act.  it's definitely possible that this is a case of jrderego pulling the plug when he felt uncomfortable, that's his prerogative, but it feels like a line was crossed at some point and if it's a legal line that's something i'd be interested to know.



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Reply #92 on: February 08, 2010, 04:32:48 PM
Talk about costumes, endings, story elements, arcs and plots, actors you think fit certain parts, etc... All of that is more than welcome, it's solicited! Keep it coming!

note that i talked very generally until this post and even then only wrote a couple paragraphs of narrative at a time before posting a full act.  it's definitely possible that this is a case of jrderego pulling the plug when he felt uncomfortable, that's his prerogative, but it feels like a line was crossed at some point and if it's a legal line that's something i'd be interested to know.

I just want to step in make it clear that deflective is not on trial here.  Everyone knows that only the best of intentions were the desire. 

As far as a line, I don't believe there is a hard and fast line where fan fiction is concerned.  One might venture to say the line is between a suggestion like "I think it would be really cool if you combined these two story lines" to actually writing narrative and dialog, but that would just be one opinion.

Fan fiction is kind of a black box.  Nobody really knows what could come out of it, but the potential for trouble and litigation is waiting there like a "snake in a can" gag.  The best rationale I've heard for not writing fan fiction is that it's the best way to insure that your idea will never see the light of day.

Remember this is new territory for Mr. DeRego, too.  He's excited about the prospects and wants to engage us as a fan base.  He didn't really anticipate a "line not to be crossed".  We, as fans, are also excited about the prospects, and want to contribute to something we believe in.  Just like deflective said, that contribution got to a point where Mr. DeRego felt uneasy.  Now a line has been recognized and labeled.  At least that's my take on it.

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Reply #93 on: February 09, 2010, 11:52:00 PM
Fanfiction hardly belongs here, but I don't think anyone can just say "no fanfiction" and it actually mean anything, or else there would be no fanfiction of major network television shows.

The tendency of more insular fandoms where creators come down and meddle among the fans often to feel like they somehow have a right or ability to stop this is a hot button subject, with  me anyway. And I really don't like disrupting threads, but this is a forum on the internet so I couldn't really think of a good reason for not expressing my opinion.

Because opinions about the potential show are being listened to here by the people who might make that show happen, I'm glad that something that would disconnect that interaction is not occurring. But as a general principle, I think expecting one's fandom to respect one's wishes for no fanfiction just because it's a more closely knit fandom than other things is quite unfair; and to be honest, not realistic. If anyone was going to successfully shut down fanfiction, the major networks would of killed fanfiction.net and related places years ago through lawsuits.

So the idea that Jeffrey R. DeRego or Matthew Wayne Selznick (love Brave Men Run but he tried to do the same thing with his fandom) can somehow swoop down and change all that is rather wrongheaded and is really an example of over-closeness in a fandom...on behalf of a creator instead of a fan, oddly enough.

I never want the creator of something I like to be so approachable as to think they can ask me for favors, as I certainly wouldn't do that to them.

Maybe this is not the kind of thing anyone wants to here in this place at this time, but if I didn't stick with my opinion and express it I wouldn't be the person that I am.

I really think those sorts of personalized requests that break the unspoken conventions of media are very unprofessional and cross over a line. There is a line and you don't want fans crossing it so as an author you should not cross it either.

Just my opinion, and I hope I've stated it in a civil manner.




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Reply #94 on: February 10, 2010, 02:12:16 AM
This may already be covered, since it looks like UD would have a pretty strong web presence, but bonus content on the UD website would be awsome. Out takes from filming, concept art, interviews with J. Derego himself, character bios, and maybe even webcomics, maybe running story lines parallel to the TV series.
I honestly don't know how feasible any of that is, but I'd love to see it. I think it would help keep the UD fan community strong and involved.
Can't wait till the website goes live!



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Reply #95 on: February 10, 2010, 05:16:59 AM
It occurs to me that if it is made into a series, you could hardly find a better example of how a series creator interacted with his fans than J. Michael Straczynski (creator of Babylon 5). :)

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Reply #96 on: February 10, 2010, 08:38:26 AM

Just my opinion, and I hope I've stated it in a civil manner.



You have, but you're ignoring two factors:

A - First, Union Dues is not a major television franchise. It's a deal in planning. At the moment it's a lot more fragile. Fanfic for a major tv franchise may be a minor annoyance to its creators, here it can actually sabotage the deal.

B - This isn't some random corner of the internet, it is a thread created by the creators in a forum run by their friends. If anyone wanted to create Union Dues fanfic and post it to their personal blog, or to a fanfic website, then I doubt there would be any reaction. Jeff Derego can't stop fanfiction, whether or not he wants to, but he can - and has every right to - stop fanfiction here.

(And note, by the way, that I don't think Deflective did anything wrong, and I didn't mean to imply that in my earlier posts. I was just trying to explain why I think the "no fanfic" policy is a reasonable and sound one)

« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:40:00 AM by eytanz »



schmetterling

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Reply #97 on: February 13, 2010, 10:22:54 PM
While I appreciate everyone's take on things, and most of it sounds reasonable, I find it interesting that everyone EXCEPT Jeff replied.

As an added note, I have nothing but respect for those of you who can call yourselves authors, whether amateur or professional.  Writing fiction, fan or otherwise, is something I've never been able to do



jrderego

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Reply #98 on: February 14, 2010, 02:03:05 AM
Megaton



Mod:Fixed.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 03:29:42 AM by Heradel »

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Reply #99 on: February 14, 2010, 02:10:52 PM
Megaton



Mod:Fixed.

I see a question mark now. :(

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