Author Topic: EP201: Harry The Crow  (Read 21655 times)

Doom xombie

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Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 07:05:50 PM
Let my clarify, I don't think that Sun Dances nor a few other dances should EVER be recorded. I'm more or less think its great when pow wows and stomp dances be broadcast because those dances are more social than spiritual. Oh and is broadcasted a word? Cause my spell checker tells me its not....

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:10:38 PM by Doom xombie »

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Talia

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Reply #26 on: June 03, 2009, 07:09:21 PM
I think just "broadcast" would work and should be considered a word :)



Zathras

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Reply #27 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:20 PM
I enjoyed the story.  I'm really glad I gave it a 2nd chance.  Norm's reading doesn't suit me, and I almost skipped this one.

I strongly dislike Todd Barry, so that's probably a good indication of my opinion of Norm.  Sorry.  His narration was good, but having him do the intro, outro and the story was too much for me.  Again, I stand in my sparsely populated corner of the forums.  At least I have lots of room to wave my arms, jump up and down and scream my lungs out without crashing into anyone.   :P

There is an internet broadcast, Tribe of Nations or something like that.  I've seen the billboard for it in Albuquerque, I'll have to look when I get home.



BethPeters

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Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 04:39:15 AM
Yay Norm!  This occasional guest host thing really does make for fun surprises.
I actually have met Norm.  To me, the Todd Barry comparison is as off as comparing him to Jeff Foxworthy.  Just don't get it.
  Like Zorag though, I thought his narration was good, but unlike Zorag his narration DID suit me... ???

I thought the story was OK, not outstanding.  Someone earlier posted that Harry's character wasn't consistent with the action he took at the end.  Unless we are supposed to believe "being human" is just doing evil things like committing murder.  Harry's decisive "coming of age" moment/decision was passed up for a twist ending, and the author did such a good job of creating a world that this ending left me saying "whatever, Harry wouldn't have done that." 

Also, just a question:  The city-slicker died because he didn't have shoes to walk home with (indirect killing)?  Or did Harry actually kill him?  Why didn't Harry just leave the shoes in the tree?  His Dad was passed out, why take them home and then throw them away?



Zathras

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Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 05:11:13 AM
I liked Norm's narration of the story, just to clarify.  I think the taking of the boots was a Crow moment.



BethPeters

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Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 06:45:59 AM
  I think the taking of the boots was a Crow moment.

What do you mean?  Like his own personal right of passage?



Zathras

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Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 02:09:57 PM
I am not too familiar with Crow traditions, so if I say something incorrect, I'm sorry.

I thought of it as a "Crow thing" because... I'm having problems putting it in words.  I'm sure I'm going to mess this up.  Some of the terms I'd throw in to explain this would be territorial, defending your home, over reacting, male ego, warrior spirit, etc.  I'm sure someone else can explain it in 3 words, and I will be left smacking myself upside the head again.



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Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 04:02:31 PM
at first i was worried that it would be an indians in space sort of thing, but i really enjoyed the story.

Why would that be so bad?
)
just hearing the idea reminds me of an 80's cartoon pitch:

We've got this great idea for a show that the kids will just Love!  think Indians In Space meets Thundercats.  But instead of cats they'd all be Indians that can change into their spirit animals to save other people.  And teach lessons of tolerance at the end of each episode.

Also their space ships would be in the shape of various spirit animals.  and of course their star-base would be a giant, wait for it, teepee!!

Maybe we could model it after Silverhawks a bit too.

Think of the possibilities!!!


and of course there'd be a really cheesy theme song and horrible toy tie-ins.



Talia

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Reply #33 on: June 09, 2009, 05:01:23 PM
sure, but imagine if someone could take that idea and actually make it work and not be cheesy. That would be rad.



deflective

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Reply #34 on: June 09, 2009, 05:05:52 PM
I think the taking of the boots was a Crow moment.

i thought you were talking about the classic 90's revenant movie the crow, that totally worked.



Lar

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Reply #35 on: June 12, 2009, 05:13:11 PM
  I think the taking of the boots was a Crow moment.

What do you mean?  Like his own personal right of passage?

I don't know what the original poster meant, but from my perspective, you don't really grow up until you make a decision that contradicts the will of your parents.  When he took this action against the desire of his father, he became his own man.  Because of this, I think the part with the shoes was essential to the story.

My 2 cents.

I really dug this episode, BTW.  All of it, story content, Norm's narration, the closing song - the entire package.  Top notch!



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Reply #36 on: June 13, 2009, 04:17:33 AM
I think the reading of this story really made it for me.  If it had been a less polished performance, I don't think I would have cared about the story much.  I'm not sure how much I did, as it is, but I kept listening avidly right to the end because the reading was so darned entertaining and compelling.  An excellent example to learn from.

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Doom xombie

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Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 04:35:06 AM
I think you mean it was a ceremonial moment and perhaps shouldn't be displayed in this way? I don't know what you meant, but I do know a little about crow traditions given that they were originally part of the hidatsas. Really thats one of the reasons I don't like the story, I may be contradicting precious statements, but i don't think ceremonies of spiritual nature should be displayed. I found it in.... strange taste to put a robot in this situation. I do like the way a previous poster explained it but I still don't like the story itself. Oh and if im being to sensitive IYO then please mention it if you read this.

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Reply #38 on: June 15, 2009, 07:05:58 AM
Oh and if im being to sensitive IYO then please mention it if you read this.

I, for one, I'm glad to have such a different viewpoint from my own.  I can't really disagree or agree with your statement.  I just try to absorb it.



H. Bergeron

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Reply #39 on: June 20, 2009, 08:34:30 AM
I found it in.... strange taste to put a robot in this situation.

I was just looking at this one sentence of the post, and - correct me if I'm wrong, here, but - isn't that kind of the idea of this story?  That the robot, despite being a robot, is still a sentient being that's capable of thinking like and feeling like a human being to such an extent that it's important to integrate them into all aspects of the society rather than treating them like second-class citizens?

If we avoided everything that was "in strange taste", we'd have a much smaller genre.

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Reply #40 on: July 06, 2009, 06:09:05 AM
I was just looking at this one sentence of the post, and - correct me if I'm wrong, here, but - isn't that kind of the idea of this story?  That the robot, despite being a robot, is still a sentient being that's capable of thinking like and feeling like a human being to such an extent that it's important to integrate them into all aspects of the society rather than treating them like second-class citizens?
And also the point of meeeellions of other robot stories, which is probably why I never bothered to finish listening to it.

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daryy

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Reply #41 on: July 11, 2009, 12:13:40 PM
  I meant it more in the way you stated it before.  The political system is different.  This story wouldn't have worked in the system you explained.



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Reply #42 on: July 14, 2009, 12:29:53 PM
Just some rambling thoughts, I just finished it I have a large backlog to get through hopfully I'll catch up around Nov.

Let me be one of the few dissenters about Norm Shermans' reading.  I could not stand it, but only because I can't stand dramatized readings. 
On a positive note technically this was edited superbly, and his inclusion of the hubble rap was a much classier attempt at advertising his Drabble cast than Tony Smith's StarShip Sofa ad on ep191This is how it feels.

As far as the story goes I am felt like this was told to me by Papa Gepetto,  "Harry, someday you will be a real boy.  The only difference in the story is that Chester Laughing Crow used salvaged parts and not the odd bit of tree.

I feel like Allie:
I enjoyed the story but I didn't feel it was really science fiction except in its trapping because you could have changed Harry from a mechanical into a human without changing the story in any way. Exactly the same things would have happened and Harry would have behaved the same.


I feel this would have been a much stronger story taking it out of the future, which seemed woefully lacking, and just had Harry be human and come of age in the present.

I have a hard time believing  the future in this story, Native Americans of the present day know how to herd and run profitable business's.  Why would the Crow Nation in the future not raise buffalo  which is done by non Crow now accross the U.S. if their very tasty meat is so valuable?
Do these future Crow turn away from modern technologies? like the Amish by forsaking vehicles and only ride horses or are these constructs too?

With the ending I was once again dissapointed, little Pinnochio (sorry Harry) turns murderer???  Harry and Chester are so heartless as to leave a wounded man on the battle field, when they could have packed him out to face Crow justice and verify their coup?
Oh! I like the drunken Indian cliched sterotype throughout the story, bad move.

Overall This could have been a great story but by placing it an unbelievable future makes me give it C-.



Jago Constantine

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Reply #43 on: February 20, 2010, 11:10:48 PM
We listened to this story in Second Life today - people liked it. We did wonder how plausible it would be for Yellowstone to be handed back to Native Americans by mid-century, but you never know!



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Reply #44 on: April 15, 2010, 05:11:57 PM
I liked Norm's reading of this, particularly the robot voice.  Many altered voices just become annoying or incomprehensible, but I could understand it perfectly and it helped differentiate the characters, and even did all that without using the reverb that's used for nearly every other voice effect.

The story, though, I didn't finish.  I listened to it most of the way through, but some major things bugged me to the point of turning it off:

1.  The robot beginning to show human traits has been done so many times (usually by Resnick) that it really has to be something special to make it shine.  I liked the unique perspective on this with the Crow tribe, but I just didn't buy that Harry was actually a robot.  His robotness was completely irrelevent to the story, you could've swapped in a human and nothing would've been changed.  Aside from a few weird looks, that is.  I would've thought that someone would've questioned whether they wanted to be led by a robo-chief.

2.  The trials really seemed badly suited for tribes who are more or less peacefully coexisting.  Particularly the horse-theft.  In a society of warring tribes, sure, stealing an enemy's horse from another tribe might be seen as honorable, and could help your war effort.  But in this case, his "enemy" is just a guy that he's had arguments with.  And stealing the guy's horse is just going to piss him off even more.  I don't know exactly what value they put on their horses but I'd expect them to be very valuable since they seem to be their main form of transport and it takes a lot of time and effort to raise and train a horse.  Also, the trials just seemed ridiculously easy, with the current society--I would think that there would be almost as many chiefs as people!

3.  The boy, to the point in the story that I listened to, was just passive and obedient to his father's every whim.  Did he even WANT to be a chief?  It wasn't clear at that point.  Dad sets up the trials for him, but then TELLS him how to do each one, and then the boy passes if he obeys.  That's not a rite of passage, that's just following a recipe.  To really be a worthy rite of passage he'd have to figure it all out by himself, and do it all by himself.  When he becomes a chief is Daddy going to stand behind him and whisper in his ear what to do? 

4.  Did they really have to have the stun prods?  I would think that a human going through these trials would have to do so WITHOUT stun prods, so it just seems like an unfair advantage.  When I would expect people to be divided over the topic of a robo chief anyway, adding in an incapacitating weapon would push many over that line.